DUST Search - Breach AR is overperforming compared to normal AR

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

Once I get home in a day or two, I'm going to run some tests on the Breach PR and normal PR and see about crunching some numbers for a fix. The end goal is to decrease it's dps while also increasing the range, making it function like a RR while still holding to Gallente battle philosophy of high damage low range. Ideally, it should have the longest range of the PR variants, but the shortest range of the racial breach variants.

Actually, it doesn't need a longer range...
Breach isn't longer range.
Breach is just higher damage and slower rate of fire, usually with a smaller mag and tighter hipfire.

No breach variants of the other weapons have longer ranges. None. Long range isn't a breach trait. In fact, breach and assault variant always have the same range. The ARR has the same range as the RR, for example.
Breach and Assault SMG
Breach and Assault ScP
Breach and Assault Forge Gun
Breach and Assault Mass Driver
All the same range.
The Breach AR should have the same range as the regular AR.

The "Breach" Rail Rifle only has a longer range because it is Caldari, not because it is a breach weapon.

To get an idea of what a breach weapon should behave like:
GÇóSame range as Assault Variant, if there is an Assault Variant
--If there is no Assault Variant, its range should be determined by race and DPS/Range profile, so far the only oddity in this category has been the Breach Shotgun, because there is not Assault Shotgun(although I expect the Assault shotgun will have the same range as the Breach shotgun).
GÇó It should hit harder than the base variant, but fire slower.
GÇóIt should retain the same firing mode as the Basic Variant. Breach ScR should be semiautomatci, and Breach CR should be Burst, as examples.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 99	Posted - 2014.10.25 22:09:00 - [61] - Quote It's rather that AR and Rail rifles need to be stripped of their hybrid capability. That way the breach AR can't do almost indiscriminate damage against shields and armour like the rail rifle does. Not only this the breach could possibly use some more space in its shooting intervals, but not too much. Proto players are the epitome of "havng your cake after you ate it" which is why most will never develop real skill
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 177	Posted - 2014.10.26 00:28:00 - [62] - Quote Whats the problem? I used the breach after the patch, but now use the AR again because with bad rng on the breach you can miss every shot with your crosshairs on target. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 190	Posted - 2014.10.26 00:28:00 - [63] - Quote Whats the problem? I used the breach after the patch, but now use the AR again because with bad rng on the breach you can miss every shot with your crosshairs on target. Edit: I might have to try out the burst since a dev likes it. To the guys talking about an I win button under 40m I don't think that is accurate the ttk seems a lot longer than the CR and RR to me, but ill pick it up again to see and keep in mind after after a certain range we are bantha fodder. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 180	Posted - 2014.10.27 03:52:00 - [64] - Quote After my revisit to the BAR it seems much better than the AR my accuracy is better or there was a ninja buff? I also played with the burst and will till I run out the it is pretty powerful, but if you miss one it the delay will kill you. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 190	Posted - 2014.10.27 03:52:00 - [65] - Quote After my revisit to the BAR it seems much better than the AR my accuracy is better or there was a ninja buff? I also played with the burst and will till I run out the it is pretty powerful, but if you miss one it the delay will kill you. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2029	Posted - 2014.10.27 05:47:00 - [66] - Quote Once I get home in a day or two, I'm going to run some tests on the Breach PR and normal PR and see about crunching some numbers for a fix. The end goal is to decrease it's dps while also increasing the range, making it function like a RR while still holding to Gallente battle philosophy of high damage low range. Ideally, it should have the longest range of the PR variants, but the shortest range of the racial breach variants. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 656	Posted - 2014.10.27 05:52:00 - [67] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Once I get home in a day or two, I'm going to run some tests on the Breach PR and normal PR and see about crunching some numbers for a fix. The end goal is to decrease it's dps while also increasing the range, making it function like a RR while still holding to Gallente battle philosophy of high damage low range. Ideally, it should have the longest range of the PR variants, but the shortest range of the racial breach variants. Actually, it doesn't need a longer range... Breach isn't longer range. Breach is just higher damage and slower rate of fire, usually with a smaller mag and tighter hipfire. No breach variants of the other weapons have longer ranges. None. Long range isn't a breach trait. In fact, breach and assault variant always have the same range. The ARR has the same range as the RR, for example. Breach and Assault SMG Breach and Assault ScP Breach and Assault Forge Gun Breach and Assault Mass Driver All the same range. The "Breach" Rail Rifle only has a longer range because it is Caldari, not because it is a breach weapon. Swag-suit4lyfe!
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18476	Posted - 2014.10.27 08:58:00 - [68] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: After my revisit to the BAR it seems much better than the AR my accuracy is better or there was a ninja buff? I also played with the burst and will till I run out the it is pretty powerful, but if you miss one it the delay will kill you. The breach is essentially a direct upgrade to the AR. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1160	Posted - 2014.10.27 11:46:00 - [69] - Quote Ima try the the Burst AR on my scout and see how that works Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8129	Posted - 2014.10.27 12:46:00 - [70] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Once I get home in a day or two, I'm going to run some tests on the Breach PR and normal PR and see about crunching some numbers for a fix. The end goal is to decrease it's dps while also increasing the range, making it function like a RR while still holding to Gallente battle philosophy of high damage low range. Ideally, it should have the longest range of the PR variants, but the shortest range of the racial breach variants. Actually, it doesn't need a longer range... Breach isn't longer range. Breach is just higher damage and slower rate of fire, usually with a smaller mag and tighter hipfire. No breach variants of the other weapons have longer ranges. None. Long range isn't a breach trait. In fact, breach and assault variant always have the same range. The ARR has the same range as the RR, for example. Breach and Assault SMG Breach and Assault ScP Breach and Assault Forge Gun Breach and Assault Mass Driver All the same range. The Breach AR should have the same range as the regular AR. The "Breach" Rail Rifle only has a longer range because it is Caldari, not because it is a breach weapon. To get an idea of what a breach weapon should behave like: GÇóSame range as Assault Variant, if there is an Assault Variant --If there is no Assault Variant, its range should be determined by race and DPS/Range profile, so far the only oddity in this category has been the Breach Shotgun, because there is not Assault Shotgun(although I expect the Assault shotgun will have the same range as the Breach shotgun). GÇó It should hit harder than the base variant, but fire slower. GÇóIt should retain the same firing mode as the Basic Variant. Breach ScR should be semiautomatci, and Breach CR should be Burst, as examples. The new officer shotgun is the only assault shotgun in the game. Could use that as comparison CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.

CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2169	Posted - 2014.10.27 12:57:00 - [71] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: This is the biggest Gallente circle jerk I've ever seen, and I watched you guys furiously jerk eachother on Skype. I read the first page of this thread and your comment there at the end gave me a good laugh :) +1 mate. I will say as a speed scout, the breach ar and bolt pistol are now some of my biggest fears in game. I will also say that I am seeing breach AR`s and bolt pistols more and more. The breach ar - great I'm happy for that I really am, I just wish the TAC AR had a little more range, the standard variant needs a little something and I cannot speak for the burst AR as I have never really used it. The bolt pistol, well we all know that needs attention to be honest. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12809	Posted - 2014.10.27 13:49:00 - [72] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: The Breach is OP, but it doesn't need any drastic changes. I've been abusing the living **** out of it since my Scrambler was nerfed, and I can say the thing is overperforming. Just an increase in recoil when aiming. Not even as much as the RR though. Reinforce the "CQC" role these Gallente keep going on about. It has a great hipfire anyway. The BAR is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. If you are winning the majority of fights within 40-50 meters or so, then congrats, that's what this thing is designed to do. It isn't just the majority though. Its the vast majority. Like 90% of the fights I come across, against any other weapon. This thing is a win button at any range under 40m. It just shoudnt be this... easy... to do this well, on a toon with only 3m SP, with a standard BrAR on an Amarr Assault. I'm practically right out of the academy still, and I'm topping the leaderboards against anything that comes against me. Sorry to say it, but the BrAR is overperforming in CQC. I know you would like to say that that is impossible Cat, but you're about as biased as they come. I even bought the Quafe G-1 just so that I could make better use of the thing eventually. I just need to skill into it now(my next SP goes there). Thing needs a Nerf. Umm, I hope you realize this is matchmaking you're speaking of. You win 90% of engagements with any rifle. At least I do. Also, "biased". It appears that Rattati's data confirms my suspicions. Is the data biased? :P Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12809	Posted - 2014.10.27 13:52:00 - [73] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: TBH the breach needs a slight nerf to damage output. The real problem with the AR is that shields simply aren't viable except in the hands of a skilled few, in comparison to armor. Go in armor up against a combat rifle. See how long you last. Shields are no longer underpowered, they are in fact slightly stronger than armor due to being able to supplement the tank using low slots, something that armor can't do. And no I'm not suggesting shields are overpowered, I can still fit damage mods on my armor suits which balances the advantages out, but I'm saying that overall shields are very strong when you look at the HP and recharge rates/delays you can achieve. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2266	Posted - 2014.10.27 14:00:00 - [74] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The Breach is the only one in the Gallente family that is close to the rest of the Rail/Combat and Scramblers. Even the burst AR, which I think is incredible, I use it a lot now, is just not picking up stats wise on the battleground. Even the TAR isn't that great, but that one is actually picking up but not really competitive. For the beta vets there may be a nostagia factor going on - we remember how it was so are anxious to give the breach a spin again. I made three Gallente combat scout fits, stocked 25 each of the breach, burst and tac. Gravitated to the breach at first but tbh i'm feeling the burst isn't getting the credit it deserves: it's a flexible, powerful, effective at taking down scouts and heavies. The tac otoh i'm not using that much - the primary situation where i'd switch to tac is for taking out an ensconced sniper or forge gunner. For that role it seems under powered, at least in the advanced version. Been thinking about fitting proto and giving up a high slot or two for the damage mods, but that's an expensive and slightly gimped suit - would be fine if next to a resupply but if that's the case why not swap out to a tactical sniper or sniper fit? PSN: RationalSpark
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 368	Posted - 2014.10.27 16:47:00 - [75] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Which AR should i use on my Gal Scout. Iv'e been thinking burst assault or breach If you have a good gun game the burst is very effective and is a lot of fun to use and it works well with fast attacks. Just be careful when aiming down sights when in cqc, the zoom is greater than the ar and the scope blocks much of the view. Just a little movement of the target means greater adjustment to track else you lose sight of him. Breach is strong but rather slow for a scout. Works better for assault/commando style play. AKA - StarVenger
Myron Kundera The Generals 84	Posted - 2014.10.27 21:03:00 - [76] - Quote I can-¦t believe this. Breach PR was in the sh*t hole for a very long time, and now, when it-¦s actually usefull in battle (CQC) you want to nerf it? Amazing, some say Breach PR feels OP, really? compared to what?, i still get owned in CQC by RR and CR many times, ScrR was nerfed and thats why i don-¦t get killed by it as much, but i remember getting charged shot/follow shot and instakilled by those dam rifles not so long ago, so please, for all that is holy, don-¦t make the Breach PR useless again, it-¦s the only PR that can really be used in a match. I hardly see many TacPR or BurstPR on the kill feed, dont know where you guys see those many kills from them, i tried them and they suck, only one good enough and that i see regularly on the kill feed is the BreachPR, so yeah, go troll and mislead some other people about how those lame versions of PR are good now, cause they arent. TL; DR. Leave the BreachPR alone! It-¦s supposed to kill at CQC and we still get owned by HMG, Shotgun, CR, ARR, RR, Pistols, etc, so no, BreachPR is not OP. Go read a few old threads when ALL the PR where underperforming and see why they where buffed in the first place, seems you forgot. "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 660	Posted - 2014.10.27 22:27:00 - [77] - Quote Drop magazine size to 32. That's it. That would place it at the about same Damage per Mag as the Base Variant. I think this would probably be enough, to be honest. If that ends up not being enough though, give it a bit more aiming recoil in the succeeding hotfix/update. I seriously don't think we would ever need to go past this. Actually, I guarantee it... Swag-suit4lyfe!
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1146	Posted - 2014.10.28 00:39:00 - [78] - Quote Zindorak wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: This is probably a stupid question but what do you mean by burst canceling? Like if you spam the trigger on CR it will go brrr brrr brrrrbrrrbrrrr brrr brrr but on the AR brr brr brr brr brr brr brr Sorry im not very good at explaining. but Burst AR kindof has a fixed burst rate but on CR some of the bursts will go together into like a 6 round burst Really? Whenever I use the CR it just goes Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Amarrica! It's Not Safe to Swim.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1164	Posted - 2014.10.28 00:41:00 - [79] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Zindorak wrote: Which AR should i use on my Gal Scout. Iv'e been thinking burst assault or breach If you have a good gun game the burst is very effective and is a lot of fun to use and it works well with fast attacks. Just be careful when aiming down sights when in cqc, the zoom is greater than the ar and the scope blocks much of the view. Just a little movement of the target means greater adjustment to track else you lose sight of him. Breach is strong but rather slow for a scout. Works better for assault/commando style play. I found the breach and burst both effective on mah scout. Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1164	Posted - 2014.10.28 00:42:00 - [80] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Zindorak wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: This is probably a stupid question but what do you mean by burst canceling? Like if you spam the trigger on CR it will go brrr brrr brrrrbrrrbrrrr brrr brrr but on the AR brr brr brr brr brr brr brr Sorry im not very good at explaining. but Burst AR kindof has a fixed burst rate but on CR some of the bursts will go together into like a 6 round burst Really? Whenever I use the CR it just goes Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Lol nice i just spam the trigger on the BCR Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2683	Posted - 2014.10.28 02:01:00 - [81] - Quote Also, everything underperforms compared to the breach AR "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
hfderrtgvcd 1013	Posted - 2014.10.28 02:50:00 - [82] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Zindorak wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: This is probably a stupid question but what do you mean by burst canceling? Like if you spam the trigger on CR it will go brrr brrr brrrrbrrrbrrrr brrr brrr but on the AR brr brr brr brr brr brr brr Sorry im not very good at explaining. but Burst AR kindof has a fixed burst rate but on CR some of the bursts will go together into like a 6 round burst Really? Whenever I use the CR it just goes Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. do you use a turbo controller? You can't fight in here! This is the war room.


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