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Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

I would rather do more with efficacy than these built in bonuses.

Your rail rifle fix isn't going to stop the problem you're trying to fix.

we'll see. there are other rr changes there as well. This is only meant to hurt the 0-20 meter engagement of RR, the charge up will help with that and increased dispersion.

Ok...i've had about enough of this.

The maps and point of most game modes (i.e. closing to an objective panel and flipping / defending it) inherently make Dust a close to mid-range focused game. You build a weapon optimized for long range, no problem with that, but you don't like that it has to preform where MAJORITY of the fighting occurs so you've nerfed it continually for several HF / Patches in a row. You've also done solid work in bringing up CQC focused weapons such as the PR to be even better in their optimal. Logi's have to be up close to the fighting so there is no racial light weapon that supports this. The Cal Assault if relegated to support by fire positions due to the racial weapons systems is a poor version of the Cal Commando at that point. Assualt's purpose is to close with and secure points and kill opposing clones but the "optimized" weapon for them is directly counter to that.

How about a middle ground... Can you have CAL assault / logi / Commando get a bonus that brings down recoil and charge time?

WTF. If the RR is that bad of a design the remove it from the game, refund some SP, and figure out how you want this thing to work and then re-introduce it. Right now it's quickly becoming a stack SP i'll not be using for a while.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1262	Posted - 2014.10.23 15:42:00 - [31] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I would rather do more with efficacy than these built in bonuses. Your rail rifle fix isn't going to stop the problem you're trying to fix. we'll see. there are other rr changes there as well. This is only meant to hurt the 0-20 meter engagement of RR, the charge up will help with that and increased dispersion. Ok...i've had about enough of this. The maps and point of most game modes (i.e. closing to an objective panel and flipping / defending it) inherently make Dust a close to mid-range focused game. You build a weapon optimized for long range, no problem with that, but you don't like that it has to preform where MAJORITY of the fighting occurs so you've nerfed it continually for several HF / Patches in a row. You've also done solid work in bringing up CQC focused weapons such as the PR to be even better in their optimal. Logi's have to be up close to the fighting so there is no racial light weapon that supports this. The Cal Assault if relegated to support by fire positions due to the racial weapons systems is a poor version of the Cal Commando at that point. Assualt's purpose is to close with and secure points and kill opposing clones but the "optimized" weapon for them is directly counter to that. How about a middle ground... Can you have CAL assault / logi / Commando get a bonus that brings down recoil and charge time? WTF. If the RR is that bad of a design the remove it from the game, refund some SP, and figure out how you want this thing to work and then re-introduce it. Right now it's quickly becoming a stack SP i'll not be using for a while. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6773	Posted - 2014.10.23 15:43:00 - [32] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: What ranges are they dominating PC on average? One would assume all within their optimal. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1262	Posted - 2014.10.23 15:44:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Is the RR really as much a problem in the data as your proposed fixes indicate? I haven't seen the RR as much of an issue lately. There're much more pressing balance issues if you ask me. However my impression isn't representative of the whole community, of course. It and the ACR dominate PC rifle kills And that means they need nerfs? Or does it mean the other weapons need some love? If the ACR is also dominating what nerf are you planning for that since just the RR is listed in the OP? "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6773	Posted - 2014.10.23 15:46:00 - [34] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I would rather do more with efficacy than these built in bonuses. Your rail rifle fix isn't going to stop the problem you're trying to fix. we'll see. there are other rr changes there as well. This is only meant to hurt the 0-20 meter engagement of RR, the charge up will help with that and increased dispersion. Ok...i've had about enough of this. The maps and point of most game modes (i.e. closing to an objective panel and flipping / defending it) inherently make Dust a close to mid-range focused game. You build a weapon optimized for long range, no problem with that, but you don't like that it has to preform where MAJORITY of the fighting occurs so you've nerfed it continually for several HF / Patches in a row. You've also done solid work in bringing up CQC focused weapons such as the PR to be even better in their optimal. Logi's have to be up close to the fighting so there is no racial light weapon that supports this. The Cal Assault if relegated to support by fire positions due to the racial weapons systems is a poor version of the Cal Commando at that point. Assualt's purpose is to close with and secure points and kill opposing clones but the "optimized" weapon for them is directly counter to that. How about a middle ground... Can you have CAL assault / logi / Commando get a bonus that brings down recoil and charge time? WTF. If the RR is that bad of a design the remove it from the game, refund some SP, and figure out how you want this thing to work and then re-introduce it. Right now it's quickly becoming a stack SP i'll not be using for a while. Makes sense though. I've protoed out Gallente Assault/Commando, have 30+ skills at level 5, have my entire Assault Rifle tree maxed out at 5 and I still feel like it's going to be a toss up in CQC against an RR. Combat Rifle I can kinda/sorta expect because it's a weapon -designed- against my playstyle but the RR shouldn't make me feel uneasy at 20m. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6773	Posted - 2014.10.23 15:47:00 - [35] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Is the RR really as much a problem in the data as your proposed fixes indicate? I haven't seen the RR as much of an issue lately. There're much more pressing balance issues if you ask me. However my impression isn't representative of the whole community, of course. It and the ACR dominate PC rifle kills And that means they need nerfs? Or does it mean the other weapons need some love? If the ACR is also dominating what nerf are you planning for that since just the RR is listed in the OP? ACR got dispersion changes. { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3868	Posted - 2014.10.23 15:47:00 - [36] - Quote It means PC players use whatever they beliece is an optimal build which universally means brick armor and anti armor weapons. They are the primary source of the EHP>ALL fallacy. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
JUPA SACH Bloodline Rebellion 210	Posted - 2014.10.23 15:56:00 - [37] - Quote Was the RR nerf really necessary? I just hope my 2.5m sp in that weapon haven't been invested wrongly :( Karma
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6773	Posted - 2014.10.23 16:04:00 - [38] - Quote JUPA SACH wrote: Was the RR nerf really necessary? I just hope my 2.5m sp in that weapon haven't been invested wrongly :( It was argued - when they were first being released - that a .25 second charge-up wasn't enough to combat their overwhelming DPS. They increased it to 0.3 seconds based on our feedback. It still wound up being pretty over-powered and that theme has lasted for quite a while; it was a major game-changer. Going from 0.3 - 0.5... I think it'll be just fine. 0.5 was what we were shooting for before 1.7 (hard to believe that was a year ago). It'll take some getting used to, sure, but I doubt that it'll honestly be this big overwhelming change people are making it out to be. Just practice with the Plasma Cannon for a while to get used to the charge-up time { \| bittervetmode = 0 I } == Description == This player has recovered morale [[Category: Hopeful]]
Horizon Limit Nexus Balusa Horizon 91	Posted - 2014.10.23 16:04:00 - [39] - Quote When is it going to happen? If it's already online, i can tell the italian client have not updated info. Cal scout vs Cal scout
RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 103	Posted - 2014.10.23 16:05:00 - [40] - Quote Have you fix Bolt pistol bullet magnet yet Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M

Cyrus Grevare WarRavens Capital Punishment. 354	Posted - 2014.10.23 16:12:00 - [41] - Quote Ouch, echoed sentiments on Gallente's loss of uniqueness. Judging from the Assaults proposed changes: Gal - 2.5, Min - 2.0, Am - 2.0, Cal - 1.5 The only factor in which Gal is better than the others is +0.5 reps, while each other suit still keeps their own innate characteristics, Caldari better shield recharge stats, Minmatar better speed and slightly better hack times and Amarr better buffer. While efficacy bonuses might change perspective, it's not like other races wouldn't get efficacy bonuses on some other stat. Though I was on the fence of global regen, I think the original numbers were better :( www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
JUPA SACH Bloodline Rebellion 210	Posted - 2014.10.23 16:14:00 - [42] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Just practice with the Plasma Cannon for a while to get used to the charge-up time Yeah i'll get used to it, but i thought it was fine as it was, just that Karma
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3868	Posted - 2014.10.23 16:16:00 - [43] - Quote Token base armor regen isn't going to be a standout for making gallente unique. Changing reps so gallente suits get more from them? Yeah I can see that. But native regen under 5 does not a unique or panicworthy special snowflake make. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Cyrus Grevare WarRavens Capital Punishment. 354	Posted - 2014.10.23 16:23:00 - [44] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Token base armor regen isn't going to be a standout for making gallente unique. Changing reps so gallente suits get more from them? Yeah I can see that. But native regen under 5 does not a unique or panicworthy special snowflake make. As it stands now, in Hf Delta, if you were to describe say assault suits, what would you say was a distinct characteristic each race has? not taking into account anything else but base stats. www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Dark Taboo 1768	Posted - 2014.10.23 16:35:00 - [45] - Quote Still not live. Rep amounts not applied and incubus still the same. Maybe someone forgot to deploy it or it wasn't scheduled for today? Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 348	Posted - 2014.10.23 16:36:00 - [46] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Welp dual tanking Caldari is going to be more prominent now. Caldari have the lowest armor repair by far, it's not going to happen. Take a bow
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12775	Posted - 2014.10.23 17:12:00 - [47] - Quote Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Not amused about Gal losing the one unique attribute we had. Amarr have large stamina pools, Minmatar moderate stamina pools with super quick recharge and high speed, Caldari low delays and fast recharge. Gallente? The Amarr can honestly mimic any Gallente fit without much effort. I wouldn't mind so much if the Gal's native reps were higher by more than a negligible amount. ...But 0.5? Ya, that'll make all the difference. The thing is that even if it was small, it was still unique. Any other race had to fit repairers for even 1hp/s. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 199	Posted - 2014.10.23 17:17:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We had a tiny opening in our TQ deployment schedule so we are using the opportunity to make some balance changes and bugfixes. We know it's a shorter feedback loop than normal but please take a look at the proposed changes. Balance Hotfix The only item that needs an extended explanation is the ROF penalty to heat cost for the Incubus. Turns out there is a very abnormal penalty setting on the Skill that was created to offset the ROF bonus of the skill. This penalty remained the same and created this weird behaviour that inverted the ROF of high skill pilots. Please try it out post change. We didn't change anything else to make sure this is verified by pilots. We are very open to more changes to the ADS, based on the continued role dialogue here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176523&find=unread The others are widely requested and data supported tweaks Weapons Rail Rifle CQC ability reduced via Charge-up increase Assault Scrambler Rifle accuracy increased via min and max Dispersion Assault Scrambler Heat cost reduced Scrambler Rifle Heat cost reduced All Scramblers Seize time reduced Assault Combat rifle Accuracy reduced via min Dispersion Bolt pistol ROF reduced via Charge-up increase Bolt pistol CQC ability reduced via min Dispersion Vehicles AV ability of Incubus increased via rate of fire heat penalty removed Swarm missile turn radius reduced by another 10 degrees Dropsuits All dropsuits now have native armor reps, including basic frames The Assault Scrambler Rifle handles way better down sights and from the hip since the changes Rattati. I think this has greatly exceeded my expectations on this weapons use from all fronts. Good job to all those responsible. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 3365	Posted - 2014.10.23 17:56:00 - [49] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Is the RR really as much a problem in the data as your proposed fixes indicate? I haven't seen the RR as much of an issue lately. There're much more pressing balance issues if you ask me. However my impression isn't representative of the whole community, of course. It and the ACR dominate PC rifle kills Is that caused by heavy useage of the ACR/RR or by the ACR/RR being better? http://evil-guide.tripod.com/
Commander Noctus Gallente Loyalist 91	Posted - 2014.10.23 18:11:00 - [50] - Quote Whoa, no way that those rep numbers are ok. Gallente, as you stated yourself Rattati, are supposed to be the Rep Kings. How is a 0.5 boost to repping over 2 of the other races in any way a display of repping prowess? And now you're speaking of an "efficacy" bonus? Is that what you're hoping to eventually replace the Dispersion bonus with? If so, please stop thinking that way. Our suits need to complement our guns, like the other 3 races (though Caldari may also get a change). Please, reconsider these numbers: give the gallente a very noticable advantage over the other races in therepair department via a direct increaseto our rep or a decrease to the others (I prefer the former to the latter). And also, don't replace our dispersion with another 25% repair efficacy. Give us a different gun bonus instead. Gallente User since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.

zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 611	Posted - 2014.10.23 18:16:00 - [51] - Quote #!@king HELL yeah! Great job! All excellent changes and most were called and debated for by players with a ton of experience. What you're doing I breaking new ground in iteration. Keep it up! BTW have ADS pilots been having such a nightmare primarily because of this weird left over debuff or is more than that?
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 638	Posted - 2014.10.23 18:36:00 - [52] - Quote Commander Noctus wrote: Whoa, no way that those numbers are ok. Amarr, as you stated yourself Rattati, are supposed to be the Armor-Brick Kings. How is a 30hp boost to HP over 2 of the other races in any way a display of damage tanking prowess? And the Amarr suits are slower anyway, making the "bonus" nothing but flavor. Please, reconsider these numbers: give the Amarr a very noticable advantage over the other races in the HP department via a direct increase to our Armor or a decrease to the others (I prefer the former to the latter). FTFY. P.S. I think us Amarr have plenty of HP. I'm just making a point that the Gallente have plenty of reps, and it falls in line. Swag-suit4lyfe!
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 396	Posted - 2014.10.23 18:41:00 - [53] - Quote I like the proposals all in all, being a logi primarily I especially appreciate the return of my reps. I understand the Gallente racial players/lore purists regarding the numbers, .5 extra is more, is better and does set the Gal frames apart in native repair but they do have a valid point about the gap being narrow between the races. The efficacy idea isn't bad, but it seems it may need to be very generous, and I wonder if maybe a nerf to their delay couldn't be an acceptable idea? As part of their total buff portfolio, they rep more but the reps engage significantly sooner. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 803	Posted - 2014.10.23 18:42:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Is the RR really as much a problem in the data as your proposed fixes indicate? I haven't seen the RR as much of an issue lately. There're much more pressing balance issues if you ask me. However my impression isn't representative of the whole community, of course. It and the ACR dominate PC rifle kills If the anti-armor rifles dominate that indicates that as of now, fitting x CPU/PG worth of armor grants you more ehp against anti-armor rifles than fitting x CPU/PG worth of shields. Nerfing armor rifles or buffing shields is, in this instance, I believe, absolutely equivalent. So go ahead with that. However, I think the handling of the rifles (vertical & horizontal kick, dispersion, etc.) should be fine-tuned for user-experience. DPS should then be fine-tuned for numeric balance. Otherwise you end up having a balanced game that has non-enjoyable (mechanical) gameplay. In conclusion I suggest rather touching the damage values of the rifles if you're concerned with balance. Tweak the handling parameters if you think the handling of the rifles is off, but don't mix up the two concepts more than necessary.
idlerowl Old-Type 19	Posted - 2014.10.23 18:43:00 - [55] - Quote Rail Rifle Hipfire Kick per shot multiplierpÇÇpÇÇ0.05 GåÆ0.2 Rail Rifle Charge up pÇÇpÇÇpÇÇpÇÇpÇÇ0.3 GåÆ0.5 OMG Charge up TOO LONG ! 0.35 will be proper at least. Rail Rifle is very useful weapon,right now . But, It is not good to let plural items greatly fluctuate . === Rail Rifle Hipfire Kick per shot multiplierpÇÇpÇÇ0.05 GåÆ0.1 Rail Rifle Charge up pÇÇpÇÇpÇÇpÇÇpÇÇ0.3 GåÆ0.35 === It should be just right
hfderrtgvcd 970	Posted - 2014.10.23 18:56:00 - [56] - Quote why is the ACR getting nerfed again? The assault rifle is better in every way. It has more dps, more damage per clip, less recoil, and less dispersion. The acr has higher usage purely because there are more armor suits than shield in pc, not because it is overpowered. The solution is to buff shields, not to nerf the acr. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3872	Posted - 2014.10.23 19:38:00 - [57] - Quote Lemme tell you a seekrit. Shields work fine now. The tryhards don't want to try something new. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Songs of Seraphim Murphys-Law 6	Posted - 2014.10.23 20:11:00 - [58] - Quote I'm just going to state the obvious here: Everyone and their mother armor stacks, and the only weapons that primarily pop up on a PC kill feed are HMGs, shot guns, and anti-armor weapons. If I logi, I only finish the kill with the assault rail rifle (they're already down to their armor), and if I use a Caldari assault while securing a point in the city, or I'm at home point with my rail rifle murdering stray, dampened scouts with no hp. Same thing would occur with the combat rifle. It's simply the state of the game currently. However, I do see an issue where I outgun a red using an assault rifle with my rail rifle. But the issue won't go away with a longer charge-up time -- I keep the rail half charged in cqc. The dispersion should be increased while hip-fire, with a greater focus on aim-down sights. Same for the kick, increased while hip-fire and reduced at ADS. It should be a precise long range weapon, correct? And to reiterate what another person said: The weapon is juxtaposed with maps that are meant to be in close engagements. Hopefully the Caldari facility map will change the use of the weapon. I don't mind the changes, but I have to voice the fallacy in the proposed changes. While we're discussing about changes, how about making the Gallente and Caldari assault bonuses useful? And if you made shield tanking appealing, you'll see an influx of anti-shield weapons.
Savage Mangler Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 175	Posted - 2014.10.23 20:13:00 - [59] - Quote Yeah....increase gallente armor reps across the board. It's their schtick, let them be the best at it. No point in giving their gimmick to everyone else and them not being compensated for it. -YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED- "Good, then they'll know who killed them." Salvation...through Annihilation
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3874	Posted - 2014.10.23 20:15:00 - [60] - Quote Shield tanking not appealing is a result of EHP>ALL fallacy. Sshields are extremely viable right now, but people are too busy complaining that you need to use low slots for regulators to actually see that it WORKS. More power to me. I run shields and armor as needed. Death to all blue/redberries!!! EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.



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