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The Incubus is Broken - Here's why (Video inside)

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Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 918	Posted - 2014.10.19 23:55:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 3) Incubus is less efficient than the Python, in effective kills per spawn, or K/S. (i.e. Shield better than Armor) This is true. The Incubus is an Anti-Vehical vehicle, and therefore does not get as many kills as a Python. Incubus is also armor tanked, meaning it takes more damage from most AV weapons (swarms, forges, rails) These two traits combined put it in a different niche than the Python. It shouldn't be killing infantry! Or at least not to the extent the Python does. In PC, the highest level of competitive play, Incubus' rome the skies dealing with enemy vehicles while Pythons fly low and harass infantry. CCP Rattati wrote: 4) Yet, people complain that the Python is worse than the Incubus, even after the rail ROF nerf. These people are wrong. The Python is absolutely fine. Enough rate of fire to eliminate targets, but not so much that infantry have no chance. Enough tank to survive, but not so much as to make it indestructible. Balance. The problem is with the Incubus. The Incubus takes more damage from AV weapons. This is as it should be. An Incubus fulfilling it's roles is seeking out enemy vehicles, not engaging hostile infantry. The issue comes when the Incubus is doing its job as a vehicle hunter. The ROF nerf on top of the unchanged heat buildup mechanic results in the Incubus not being able to fire enough rounds to do it's job. Video: The Incubus is Broken Not only are Incubus pilots hard pressed to do their job, they are also punished for investing skill points into their chosen playstyle. We hear a lot of talk about how vehicles should be manned by multiple players to be effective. I agree with this, but why then are our gunners punished for investing the millions of skill points required to be good at their job? The solutions are many: Change the ROF, Change the overheat mechanic, Change the skill bonus. Change something! Delta did some great things for vehicle balance, but nothing always turns out perfectly. Before moving on to the next fire, let's fix this one first. Let CCP know what you think directly in the Feedback Thread The Incubus is Broken
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1272	Posted - 2014.10.19 23:58:00 - [2] - Quote as i recall dosnt rails have like 200m range ? and swarms are only 175m? that means you could hover.. drop players with an MCRU and have you+2 gunners spraying down on people from like 176m high.. and iirc isnt incubus with blaster a beast vs other ADS/DS and HAV as i recall people saying it had like 3000 dps [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
hfderrtgvcd 886	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:01:00 - [3] - Quote inb4 people who didn't watch the video saying the incubus is fine You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 548	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:08:00 - [4] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: inb4 people who didn't watch the video saying the incubus is fine I don't need to watch a video I fly an Incubus and say it's fine... The only problem is with swarms.
Stupid Blueberry Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 522	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:09:00 - [5] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: as i recall dosnt rails have like 200m range ? and swarms are only 175m? that means you could hover.. drop players with an MCRU and have you+2 gunners spraying down on people from like 176m high.. and iirc isnt incubus with blaster a beast vs other ADS/DS and HAV as i recall people saying it had like 3000 dps They won't render that far away. Chillin, waitin on Legion. Ishukone loyalist, Caldari Scout enthusiast!
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 920	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:12:00 - [6] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: as i recall dosnt rails have like 200m range ? and swarms are only 175m? that means you could hover.. drop players with an MCRU and have you+2 gunners spraying down on people from like 176m high.. and iirc isnt incubus with blaster a beast vs other ADS/DS and HAV as i recall people saying it had like 3000 dps Small blasters are still pretty ineffective against vehicles, despite the buff (which wasn't really a buff considering the ROF got nerved) They can work against Pythons, but require very close range. As for the sniping from 200 meters, I think you'll find it extremely hard to hit infantry from that distance, not to mention the hit detection issues. This plays in to what I was saying about Incubuses being anti vehicle, because a tank IS a target you can hit from 200 meters. The Incubus is Broken
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 920	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:13:00 - [7] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: as i recall dosnt rails have like 200m range ? and swarms are only 175m? that means you could hover.. drop players with an MCRU and have you+2 gunners spraying down on people from like 176m high.. and iirc isnt incubus with blaster a beast vs other ADS/DS and HAV as i recall people saying it had like 3000 dps They won't render that far away. Excellent point. The Incubus is Broken
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 920	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:13:00 - [8] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: inb4 people who didn't watch the video saying the incubus is fine I don't need to watch a video I fly an Incubus and say it's fine... The only problem is with swarms. Care to explain your opinion? The Incubus is Broken
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 550	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:25:00 - [9] - Quote Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: inb4 people who didn't watch the video saying the incubus is fine I don't need to watch a video I fly an Incubus and say it's fine... The only problem is with swarms. Care to explain your opinion? facepalms <__< should have probably mentioned the heat buildup on the rails instead of leaving it for the video... I concede there's 2 issues then, lol. I could technically argue that it's a rail issue and not an Incubus issue though... Saving myself a small amount of humiliation. I'm gonna argue some more anyway though, missiles on a Bus do just fine at farming infantry as well as thrashing any ground vehicles and standard dropships... Also bad ads pilots die with ease, but that doesn't count for much. In your video you missed the last shot which would have downed the Python & then you hovered there infront of it to get shot... That was not a good argument for fixing the issue.
Koch Rosenzweig Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 7	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:39:00 - [10] - Quote I know this isnt relationed with ur post but, awesome video "For the love of Dropships" Huh, what a pretty biotic a$$. Slap

Atiim 13085	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:40:00 - [11] - Quote I think the RoF on all turrets need to be increased by 15%, and have a different bonus for the ADS, maybe: +5% Splash Radius per Level (Python) +8% Heat Sink Expansion per Level (Incubus) Not only that, but the Damage on 20GJ Railguns also needs an increase. As it stands now, they have absolutely no chance against a 'Triple Rep' Madrugar. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13671	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:52:00 - [12] - Quote Well posted. They do look really bad right now. It's like Maddies. Useless as HAV, and might as well be removed, as shields do everything better. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 552	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:52:00 - [13] - Quote Atiim wrote: I think the RoF on all turrets need to be increased by 15%, and have a different bonus for the ADS, maybe: +5% Splash Radius per Level (Python) +8% Heat Sink Expansion per Level (Incubus) Not only that, but the Damage on 20GJ Railguns also needs an increase. As it stands now, they have absolutely no chance against a 'Triple Rep' Madrugar. If you give me 15% RoF even the fooked up sentinal swarmers wont last long enough to get a 2nd shot off, lol. Basic small rails do enough damage to trololol infantry meanwhile doing enough to drop all but the dreaded triple rep Madruga, which suggests the issue with with armour rep or even just that people should be allowed to make their tank immune to small rails as they will get dropped by everything else in seconds. The small blaster perhaps could use a slight increase, but only really on an ads that doesn't get to sit still for long, because I'm running small blasters on a cheap LAV and taking out HMG's with ease.
Crimson ShieId Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1089	Posted - 2014.10.20 00:53:00 - [14] - Quote Huh... well, that's kinda BS... I knew the ROF got cut, but I wasn't aware the heat buildup got such an increase... WTF, CCP? And a better question would be, why is the main complaint about these things right now swarms when your AV turret is nearly useless? Nova Knives are best sidearm.
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 88	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:14:00 - [15] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: as i recall dosnt rails have like 200m range ? and swarms are only 175m? that means you could hover.. drop players with an MCRU and have you+2 gunners spraying down on people from like 176m high.. and iirc isnt incubus with blaster a beast vs other ADS/DS and HAV as i recall people saying it had like 3000 dps The blaster is incapable of dropping ANY vehicle other than a LAV AND it has a hard time of destroying lavs too even if they are just sitting there. If you want to talk about against infantry then it would take a better pilot than me to be able to safely and accurately employ a blaster turret against infantry. You are correct, the rails do have a 200m range, but that is the max. After 200m the shots harmlessly explode in midair and with near zero splash damage worth that means you'll only have about a 25m range of safety. It's rather difficult with communication between turret gunners and pilots to get that just right. AND at that range there is the issue of pop-in structures, disappearing cover and load times for infantry. Overall that is just a bad idea that could be completely fruitless. The MCRU gives the pilot nothing. Unless the pilot travels about 400m (not sure about that) there is 0% chance of getting transport assists (whenever they choose to work). there are no spawn bonuses for MCRU's either. The point? The Incubus is broken. Short and simple. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 88	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:32:00 - [16] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: facepalms <__< should have probably mentioned the heat buildup on the rails instead of leaving it for the video... I concede there's 2 issues then, lol. I could technically argue that it's a rail issue and not an Incubus issue though... Saving myself a small amount of humiliation. I'm gonna argue some more anyway though, missiles on a Bus do just fine at farming infantry as well as thrashing any ground vehicles and standard dropships... Also bad ads pilots die with ease, but that doesn't count for much. In your video you missed the last shot which would have downed the Python & then you hovered there infront of it to get shot... That was not a good argument for fixing the issue. Here's my problem with your argument. You have to put a caldari missile launcher on a Gallente Ship that gets no bonuses to that weapon JUST so that you can use the Incubus. This shows that while the entire Gallente ADS is not broken, the natural weapons of the race are so ineffective that you toss them out the window. THIS is why the incubus is called broken. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 233	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:01:00 - [17] - Quote Wait i just noticed something the small rail turret was the last good gallente weapon and now its broken like all the others. I guess the shotguns still good but the officer that just came out sucks horribly.
hfderrtgvcd 891	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:06:00 - [18] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Wait i just noticed something the small rail turret was the last good gallente weapon and now its broken like all the others. I guess the shotguns still good but the officer that just came out sucks horribly. the assault rifle is amazing You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 924	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:15:00 - [19] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: In your video you missed the last shot which would have downed the Python & then you hovered there infront of it to get shot... That was not a good argument for fixing the issue. I actually didn't miss the shot, and I'm glad somebody noticed that. Watch it again and you'll notice the reticule is firmly on the opposing dropship. That, my friend, is the other issue with small rails: Hideous Hit Detection. The Incubus is Broken
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 924	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:16:00 - [20] - Quote Koch Rosenzweig wrote: I know this isnt relationed with ur post but, awesome video "For the love of Dropships" Thank you very much! The Incubus is Broken

Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 925	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:20:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: I think the RoF on all turrets need to be increased by 15%, and have a different bonus for the ADS, maybe: +5% Splash Radius per Level (Python) +8% Heat Sink Expansion per Level (Incubus) Not only that, but the Damage on 20GJ Railguns also needs an increase. As it stands now, they have absolutely no chance against a 'Triple Rep' Madrugar. As a pilot I like those suggestions a lot, but I can also imagine the storm increasing missile splash damage would cause The heat expansion is an idea I think most everybody could get behind though. And yeah, rails may do more damage to armor now, but good luck finding the DPS to take out those Madrugars The Incubus is Broken
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 925	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:22:00 - [22] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Well posted. They do look really bad right now. It's like Maddies. Useless as HAV, and might as well be removed, as shields do everything better. Thanks, True! I know what you mean. I can't seem to do half as good in a Madrugar as I can in a Gunny, but then again, Duna manages it somehow... The Incubus is Broken
jace silencerww Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 61	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:24:00 - [23] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: as i recall dosnt rails have like 200m range ? and swarms are only 175m? that means you could hover.. drop players with an MCRU and have you+2 gunners spraying down on people from like 176m high.. and iirc isnt incubus with blaster a beast vs other ADS/DS and HAV as i recall people saying it had like 3000 dps true but at that range the damage % is at 15-30% with rail against ground troops . blasters lol those are a joke on any ds but missiles are good however you do kill yourself. shooting then the missiles hits the ds and hurts to kills the gunner, you don't always show up until we are about 150 meters away then your swarms are fired at the the ads/ds
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 925	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:28:00 - [24] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: Huh... well, that's kinda BS... I knew the ROF got cut, but I wasn't aware the heat buildup got such an increase... WTF, CCP? And a better question would be, why is the main complaint about these things right now swarms when your AV turret is nearly useless? ROF is affects heat buildup and vice versa. You can't change one without the other (I think) so they are going to have to dial something back a notch. The Incubus is Broken
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 925	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:30:00 - [25] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Wait i just noticed something the small rail turret was the last good gallente weapon and now its broken like all the others. I guess the shotguns still good but the officer that just came out sucks horribly. I saw the video of that shotgun. Yet another thing to add to the fix-list The Incubus is Broken
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 91	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:33:00 - [26] - Quote Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: Crimson ShieId wrote: Huh... well, that's kinda BS... I knew the ROF got cut, but I wasn't aware the heat buildup got such an increase... WTF, CCP? And a better question would be, why is the main complaint about these things right now swarms when your AV turret is nearly useless? ROF is affects heat buildup and vice versa. You can't change one without the other (I think) so they are going to have to dial something back a notch. If they would push back the ROF to what it was, but add a penalty that actually reduces the damage (or just lower the damage, but this would affect other uses of the small rail turrets) they could get around this problem. Or why don't they just have a hidden penalty attached to the dropship? That way players would have the original rate of fire, so no terrible heat issue/bug, but do less damage so that it would require more shots and provide a more balanced ship. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 91	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:35:00 - [27] - Quote Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Wait i just noticed something the small rail turret was the last good gallente weapon and now its broken like all the others. I guess the shotguns still good but the officer that just came out sucks horribly. I saw the video of that shotgun. Yet another thing to add to the fix-list What video? Can you provide a link? Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 925	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:42:00 - [28] - Quote BrotherofHavok wrote: Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: Crimson ShieId wrote: Huh... well, that's kinda BS... I knew the ROF got cut, but I wasn't aware the heat buildup got such an increase... WTF, CCP? And a better question would be, why is the main complaint about these things right now swarms when your AV turret is nearly useless? ROF is affects heat buildup and vice versa. You can't change one without the other (I think) so they are going to have to dial something back a notch. If they would push back the ROF to what it was, but add a penalty that actually reduces the damage (or just lower the damage, but this would affect other uses of the small rail turrets) they could get around this problem. Or why don't they just have a hidden penalty attached to the dropship? That way players would have the original rate of fire, so no terrible heat issue/bug, but do less damage so that it would require more shots and provide a more balanced ship. I'm fine with the speed, to be honest. Sure faster is better, but I would rather be able to fire more shots than fire 7 shots sort of quickly. As it is, all an Incubus pilot can do is nag a Python, very rarely can he destroy it. Not unlike the problem with most AV weapons before Delta... The Incubus is Broken
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 925	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:45:00 - [29] - Quote BrotherofHavok wrote: Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Wait i just noticed something the small rail turret was the last good gallente weapon and now its broken like all the others. I guess the shotguns still good but the officer that just came out sucks horribly. I saw the video of that shotgun. Yet another thing to add to the fix-list What video? Can you provide a link? Prepare to cry Thank god my scrambler came out alright The Incubus is Broken
Cody Sietz Evzones Public.Disorder. 4074	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:46:00 - [30] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: inb4 people who didn't watch the video saying the incubus is fine I don't need to watch a video I fly an Incubus and say it's fine... The only problem is with swarms. Yeah, why does it only take 6 swarms to kill a incubus! "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire



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