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Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 5	Posted - 2014.10.21 16:31:00 - [31] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: May I suggest reducing sieze time and damage to compensate for shorter firing cycles? And before anyone says it leave the sieze on the HMG as punishing and horrible as it is now. HMG is far more forgiving than an SCR in heat control, I think the SCR should run a shorter seize with less immediate self-damage. Totally agree. The seize time is a hindrance. The ScR sucks as a stand alone weapon now. You must wield a nice sidearm for it to be effective. I look at my ScR as a sidearm when I use it only to take shields down. After that you're screwed by the seize time when it over heats or the lack of damage output to armor. Art.of.Death We fight together now. We look forward to the future in Legion.
Y-BLOCK BioCyberDevelopment 30	Posted - 2014.10.21 16:34:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? How's my AScR peforming? Not good enough at all...any thoughts? Return the Scrambler Rifle Damage Profile to it's pre Delta Numbers!! Now that You've Tasted my Mutton.. How do you Like it!?!
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 449	Posted - 2014.10.21 17:19:00 - [33] - Quote Y-BLOCK wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? How's my AScR peforming? Not good enough at all...any thoughts? Return the Scrambler Rifle Damage Profile to it's pre Delta Numbers!! LOL, no
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3950	Posted - 2014.10.21 18:23:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? How's my AScR peforming? Not good enough at all...any thoughts? Reduce kick. I find it to be lacking in the long range department because of the increased kick, but that's just my opinion.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 787	Posted - 2014.10.21 18:36:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: How's my AScR peforming? Not good enough at all...any thoughts? Can you pull the average shield/armor-ratio from some 10k spawned suits from your data? I'm pretty sure that if you calculated effective DPS with respect to efficiencies you'll arrive at numbers that will reflect the user's preference very well. Afterwards we can start talking about whether the current shield/armor-ratio is where we want it to be.
Lady MDK Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 145	Posted - 2014.10.21 19:32:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? Apologies for the high-jack, may i ask where the assault rifle sits in your stats? My gallente alt character would like to know.... Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following. I don't care so neither should you :)
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 2700	Posted - 2014.10.21 20:28:00 - [37] - Quote The ScR needs... 1. Breakin Stuff wrote: ...reducing sieze time and damage to compensate for shorter firing cycles... ...the SCR should run a shorter seize with less immediate self-damage... I've always believed the ScR is an alpha damage weapon. It's difficult to balance because if the DPS (or total damage before seizing) is too low, it makes the weapon completely useless for 1v1. On the other hand, if damage is too high squads carrying multiple Scramblers will destroy everything and the nerf-scr brigade will come out in full force. Increasing the frequency at which the ScR can deliver its alpha damage by reducing the penalty for accidentally all the shots is an elegant solution to make the weapon viable in different situations and squad configurations. 2. After firing a fully charged shot, a lvl5 Amarr A-I should be able to fire an additional 2 shots. After firing a fully charged shot, any other suit should be able to fire an additional 1 shot. 3. 'Zealot' class ScR
Spankdamonke Dapper Gentlemen Corporation 32	Posted - 2014.10.21 20:47:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? How's my AScR peforming? Not good enough at all...any thoughts? As others have said, reducing the heat build-up would go a long way. Maybe halfway between where it was before and now? That way it could still get off enough damage to rival other racial weapons before overheat. Otherwise, I'd say a 3.5% damage increase and reduced horizontal kick, to help it apply the damage better at range.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1127	Posted - 2014.10.21 22:35:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? I use the ScR 90% of the time and I have to say that I didn't even notice the heat changes until my friend was saying how they overheat all the time. Amarrica! It's Not Safe to Swim.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1132	Posted - 2014.10.21 23:29:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? Interesting. Can u linky me to the top fits for pc and leaderboard for weapons? pls Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :) Pls fix SCR CCP


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 9006	Posted - 2014.10.22 00:06:00 - [41] - Quote Zindorak wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? Interesting. Can u linky me to the top fits for pc and leaderboard for weapons? pls I am actually working on a Planetary Conquest and Public Contracts meta blog, so you can expect numbers, just not right now. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Egonz4 DARKSTAR ARMY 443	Posted - 2014.10.22 04:25:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? numbers mean nothing Master of The Flaylock
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 4194	Posted - 2014.10.22 06:31:00 - [43] - Quote Looking at numbers and playing the game are two different things but in all honesty I'd be fine with it if any other light weapon could jam up or overheat looks at AR instead of being the perfect machine of the future. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 261	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:40:00 - [44] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Just throwing an idea out here: what if Amarr weaponry never had to reload and only heat buildup was their limiting factor to how long they can fire? I would think that would be the way to go too.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 261	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:49:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? How's my AScR peforming? Not good enough at all...any thoughts? Honestly I would say it is a dispersion issue. The AScR (and tbh the ScR as well) have dispersion when aiming down sights that they shouldn't have. Amarr weaponry is limited by both an Ammo Clip as well as heat buildup. They are also limited by dispersion and recoil. Now your CR or AR is limited by Ammo clip, dispersion, and recoil. One less limiting factor. Add to that said projectile weapons have a skill which reduces firing penalties that the Amarr weaponry does not. Now add to that a higher percent of existing HP being more Armor than shields such that these EM weapons have their damage profile limited more often when dealing damage than said projectile weapons. Try making the guns have little to no recoil for the ScR (keep hipfire dispersion) and less dispersion for AscRs in general. That will make the bonus limiter of Heat 'fair' relative to their projectile counterparts. Or at the very least make a similar skill to match the projectile weapon's skills. If my reasoning on this is completely off base or there is something I did not consider please correct it.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2079	Posted - 2014.10.22 08:59:00 - [46] - Quote According to the data available, scramblers are bought on the market about as much as the plasma cannons. That should ring some alarm bells. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 569	Posted - 2014.10.22 13:45:00 - [47] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Amarr weaponry is limited by both an Ammo Clip as well as heat buildup. They are also limited by dispersion and recoil. Now your CR or AR is limited by Ammo clip, dispersion, and recoil. One less limiting factor. It gets a larger ammo clip for the heat buildup (compared to it's closest competitor TacAR) the AR is also limited by range more than the ScR... Also I wouldn't bring recoil into this as the ScR has very little, but then all the recoil in this game self corrects making it somewhat pointless. If you want a super powerful ScR I'd suggest not allowing it to be swapped while above 75% heat, because you can quite easily swap to to another weapon fire a few shots then swap back (if needed) meanwhile non heatbuildup weapons run out, swap and then they're completely out and have to reload. ScR also gets a charged shot, which most other weapons do not. Scr compared to rail rifle has the same amount of limits when you include the (lol) charge time... So when they fix the charge time it might be balanced quite well. Just my oppinion.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4650	Posted - 2014.10.22 14:58:00 - [48] - Quote Egonz4 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? numbers mean nothing Not true. That is an oversimplification. In reality the numbers have meaning, but how you interpret the numbers will be effected by your understanding of the context. If the meaning that Rattati is taking from the numbers is different than your understanding of the situation, I suggest you figure out what the context of the situation is that is creating those numbers and explain that context to Rattati. They saying GÇ£numbers mean nothingGÇ¥ is an oversimplification used by people who do not want to put in the mental effort to understand their context. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 114	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:04:00 - [49] - Quote I used to love the ScR (normal version) and play with it a LOT pre-Delta. But the heat build-up on it is so incredibly high now that even with my ak.0 assault, 3 comp damage mods and Viziam Scrambler, it can only shoot 2 charged shots or ~20 normals. Thing is that most of the 20 shots you'll spam won't reach the target (because of recoil, dispersion, bugs, etc.) so you WILL have to stop at least once before finishing your target. This is true against about every medium/heavy suits that arent militia, and it's a shame. The only way I use it now is to take down the shield of my enemy and then switch to my Breach SMG.. Compare it to every other rifles and you'll notice the big difference. The overheat needs to be back to what it used to be pre-Delta. Sorry for my bad english.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1830	Posted - 2014.10.22 19:10:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? i have not seen one scrambler rifle in the killfeed in PC since delta. whos PC battles are you getting the data from and can we see it? KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer

Lady MDK Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 146	Posted - 2014.10.22 19:41:00 - [51] - Quote Egonz4 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? numbers mean nothing I would agree, but since we are all players of different skill levels and have skills in game trained to different levels the numbers are the only constant their is.... True they should be used more as a guide than an end all and be all. Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following. I don't care so neither should you :)
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 198	Posted - 2014.10.22 20:35:00 - [52] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: I used to love the ScR (normal version) and play with it a LOT pre-Delta. But the heat build-up on it is so incredibly high now that even with my ak.0 assault, 3 comp damage mods and Viziam Scrambler, it can only shoot 2 charged shots or ~20 normals. Thing is that most of the 20 shots you'll spam won't reach the target (because of recoil, dispersion, bugs, etc.) so you WILL have to stop at least once before finishing your target. This is true against about every medium/heavy suits that arent militia, and it's a shame. The only way I use it now is to take down the shield of my enemy and then switch to my Breach SMG.. Compare it to every other rifles and you'll notice the big difference. The overheat needs to be back to what it used to be pre-Delta. I agree with this completely. Even if they are using numbers, clearly CCP data is seriously off. I have sat down using the same data and even that shows how disadvantaged the Scrambler Rifle is to the other light weapons. By the next update a new weapon will be FotM because the supposedly data will say, "We found that this weapon is underperforming based on our data," and yet again we will have the same issues we have been having since day one. Scripts and coding the game was the hard part this basic data input shouldn't even be a long and extensive process. Please CCP read the quote above! *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13741	Posted - 2014.10.22 20:40:00 - [53] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: It gets a larger ammo clip for the heat buildup. Just my oppinion. However since the Seize Up is effectively and artificial reload it might as well not have that large magazine capacity. A 5.0 Second Seize Duration is longer than any reload and crippling in a fight where your opponent can apply their sustained DPS (aka full damage of the magazine) while the ScR I believe at Lvl5 Amarr Assault will apply 18 rounds of damage before over heat. If I am not mistaken and acception a 2-3 shot margin of error on the Scr Stats. CRD-9 Scrambler Rifle = 66.25 Damage Per Shot 66.25 * 18 = 1192.5 66.25 * 21= 1391.25 SB-39 Rail Rifle 49.35 * 42= 2072.7 RS-90 28.35 * 54= 1530.9 Gek-38 31.5 * 60 = 1890 All 3 other Racial Rifles can apply the DPS of a full magazine without penalty. The ScR suffers because its effective magazine is only about 21 or so. ((Disclaimer- I like to think its a way to prevent spammability in CQC....but even at range it's quite the pain as its the only rifle that really requires trigger discipline.)) "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Gabriella Grey THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 198	Posted - 2014.10.22 21:15:00 - [54] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: It gets a larger ammo clip for the heat buildup. Just my oppinion. However since the Seize Up is effectively and artificial reload it might as well not have that large magazine capacity. A 5.0 Second Seize Duration is longer than any reload and crippling in a fight where your opponent can apply their sustained DPS (aka full damage of the magazine) while the ScR I believe at Lvl5 Amarr Assault will apply 18 rounds of damage before over heat. If I am not mistaken and acception a 2-3 shot margin of error on the Scr Stats. CRD-9 Scrambler Rifle = 66.25 Damage Per Shot 66.25 * 18 = 1192.5 66.25 * 21= 1391.25 SB-39 Rail Rifle 49.35 * 42= 2072.7 RS-90 28.35 * 54= 1530.9 Gek-38 31.5 * 60 = 1890 All 3 other Racial Rifles can apply the DPS of a full magazine without penalty. The ScR suffers because its effective magazine is only about 21 or so. ((Disclaimer- I like to think its a way to prevent spammability in CQC....but even at range it's quite the pain as its the only rifle that really requires trigger discipline.)) Then you also have to add 0.20 armor resistance to the equation and the damage buff per shot to shields. (+20% -20%) Once you have that you also need to cross reference the time to kill between the other weapons and you should get your answer for the scrambler rifles. Then from there you can go about it two ways. Shaving down the numbers from the weapons that are much more effective in the important areas or increase the the allotted areas to where the weapon the weapon suffers the lowest performance to balance it out with the others. *Always Grey Skies* Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13743	Posted - 2014.10.22 21:37:00 - [55] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: True Adamance wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: It gets a larger ammo clip for the heat buildup. Just my oppinion. However since the Seize Up is effectively and artificial reload it might as well not have that large magazine capacity. A 5.0 Second Seize Duration is longer than any reload and crippling in a fight where your opponent can apply their sustained DPS (aka full damage of the magazine) while the ScR I believe at Lvl5 Amarr Assault will apply 18 rounds of damage before over heat. If I am not mistaken and acception a 2-3 shot margin of error on the Scr Stats. CRD-9 Scrambler Rifle = 66.25 Damage Per Shot 66.25 * 18 = 1192.5 66.25 * 21= 1391.25 SB-39 Rail Rifle 49.35 * 42= 2072.7 RS-90 28.35 * 54= 1530.9 Gek-38 31.5 * 60 = 1890 All 3 other Racial Rifles can apply the DPS of a full magazine without penalty. The ScR suffers because its effective magazine is only about 21 or so. ((Disclaimer- I like to think its a way to prevent spammability in CQC....but even at range it's quite the pain as its the only rifle that really requires trigger discipline.)) Then you also have to add 0.20 armor resistance to the equation and the damage buff per shot to shields. (+20% -20%) Once you have that you also need to cross reference the time to kill between the other weapons and you should get your answer for the scrambler rifles. Then from there you can go about it two ways. Shaving down the numbers from the weapons that are much more effective in the important areas or increase the the allotted areas to where the weapon the weapon suffers the lowest performance to balance it out with the others. No you are right I should have stated that these were unmodified values. I figured I would keep them unmodified to keep it simple. Moreover I do not think that it is an adequate representation since you will almost never do a sustained value of damage against one single tanking type. But...... SCR CRD-9 1192.5 * 1.2 = 1431 1192.5 * 0.8 = 954 Rail Rifle SB-39 2072.7 * 0.9 = 1865.43 2072.7 * 1.1 = 2279.97 Combat Rifle RS-90 1530.0 * 0.85 = 1301.27 1530.9 * 1.15 = 1760.54 Assault Rifle GEK-38 1890 * 1.1 = 2079 1890 * 0.9 = 1701 "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1037	Posted - 2014.10.22 22:04:00 - [56] - Quote Egonz4 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? numbers mean nothing Without units and logic. How to balance cloaks.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 262	Posted - 2014.10.23 00:40:00 - [57] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Amarr weaponry is limited by both an Ammo Clip as well as heat buildup. They are also limited by dispersion and recoil. Now your CR or AR is limited by Ammo clip, dispersion, and recoil. One less limiting factor. It gets a larger ammo clip for the heat buildup (compared to it's closest competitor TacAR) the AR is also limited by range more than the ScR... Also I wouldn't bring recoil into this as the ScR has very little, but then all the recoil in this game self corrects making it somewhat pointless. If you want a super powerful ScR I'd suggest not allowing it to be swapped while above 75% heat, because you can quite easily swap to to another weapon fire a few shots then swap back (if needed) meanwhile non heatbuildup weapons run out, swap and then they're completely out and have to reload. ScR also gets a charged shot, which most other weapons do not. Scr compared to rail rifle has the same amount of limits when you include the (lol) charge time... So when they fix the charge time it might be balanced quite well. Just my oppinion. I would bring recoil into this as the projectile rifles have slightly less recoil but also dispersion. A tacAR is about as accurate as a ScR. As is a combat rifle. And these are tactical weapons. Aim, shoot. High damage. Missing is a huge problem. Hence accuracy is one of if not THE most important factor. So yes. I will bring recoil (accuracy) into this. It is a factor and ignoring it is biased. Now when talking about range look at the weapon effective ranges. Yes the projectile weapons have shorter ranges. They are also better at closer ranges. These factors pare each other out and are unrelated to the conversation about firing limitations. Charge shot also has nothing to do with fire limitations. It too is limited by heat and charge time -- DPS is converted from over time to alpha with more cool down on the back end but ultimately changed little. Misses are far more heavily penalized. Again, unrelated. And the penalty for overheat is the most severe of any in the game. When you take all of that into account it is of little surprise that the AScR is not a 'kill' weapon as you can't really assault anything and the ScR is currently slightly below par at best. As the poster above me mentioned -- ScR was the least purchased rifle. Now why was that do you think?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13755	Posted - 2014.10.23 00:56:00 - [58] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Egonz4 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? numbers mean nothing Without units and logic. Back to the topic. The scrambler rifle is an unreliable weapon that has the potential to explode in your hand. In exchange for being unreliable, the weapon was powerful; high risk reward. Currently the reward doesn't feel like it's worth the higher risk. Either increase the reward or decrease the risk. Remember, I'm talking about how I FEEL about the current risk versus reward aspects of the scrambler rifle. I could totally be wrong. My interpretation of numbers. From my understanding of what CCP Rattati shared with us, scrambler rifle users had higher than average KDR than the users of the other rifle. But, was the least used non-sniper, non-laser rifle. It wasn't that the scrambler rifles were over performing, but rather players dedicating themselves to being good with a weapon that the majority tend to avoid using for reasons. Not saying that Anti-modded controller measures weren't needed. Indeed you already had incredibly good players like Arkena Wyrnspire, 1st Lt Tiberius, Rei Shepard, Lea Silencio, Viktor Hadah Jr, Aero Yassavi, Hell here is the list of them..... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=116424 These players were already individually good, and they often worked in teams anyway at top tier competitive levels. And Tiberius would go on and on about how he would never use the ScR in PC. Gun was never over powered, you just had good players using it. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1132	Posted - 2014.10.23 00:58:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Zindorak wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have been looking at this issue, specifically at post Delta, or last 27 days, using both Public Match and Planetary Conquest data. 1) Even though unintended, the Scrambler Rifle was overperforming pre-Delta running an average KDR of 1.8 and exactly at 1.5 after, where the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle currently are, on Public Matches. 2) However, the Amarr Proto Assault with Scrambler is a competitive PC fit, and ranks in the top 20 combinations. 3) On top of that, the Scrambler Rifle is on par with most of other Rifles kills with in Planetary Conquest (post Delta). The ACR is an outlier at 1.5KDR in Public Matches but has more than 50% more kills than the second placed Rifle in PC. It has taken a necessary hit, but is now pretty much where we want it to be. What is the main issue, and please don't just say "more heat than before" because that has helped balance the weapon. Is there a tweak to be done to improve it a bit? Interesting. Can u linky me to the top fits for pc and leaderboard for weapons? pls I am actually working on a Planetary Conquest and Public Contracts meta blog, so you can expect numbers, just not right now. ooooooooo i like that Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :) Pls fix SCR CCP
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 172	Posted - 2014.10.23 16:09:00 - [60] - Quote Personally i feel that Amarrian technology as a whole has fallen behind, for this i have 3 examples: 1. The SCR is outcompeted in terms of range by the RR and does not have sufficient damage before overheat to take down most assaults, this means that other guns including assault rifles, rail rifles and combat rifles will be preferable as there is no heat drawback to them. Explanation: I know that many people argue that heat buildup has no place in a debate about weapon efficiency but i beg to differ, when no other variant of weapon has a heat buildup as severe in terms of damage applied as a scrambler rifle how can one NOT mention the heat buildup as a strong negative factor. Since the buffing of the assaults the SCR is unable to compete in a fight against RR and CR users simply because if it misses even once, that's 1/18 of it's MAXIMUM damage applicable gone instantly. No other gun has this much of a drawback in terms of damage applied/shot missed ratio. Secondly, every one ALWAYS uses the amarr assault as the benchmark for scrambler rifle usage. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. the weapon needs to perform at a competitive level with other guns in terms of damage WITHOUT having an amarr assault! Since when does a rail rifle/CR scout have a genuine drawback to using their gun in comparison to an assault of their faction. Resolution: Scrambler rifle (tactical variant): Heat buildup reduction by 15% from 60 to 51. OR Heat cooldown from 6.00 seconds to 4.5 seconds. 2. The ASCR underperforms against all other guns.... Personally i am quite proficient with the weapon, having used it since the days of the amarr slayer logi <3. I believe it needs a profile change, from 20/-20 to 20/-15 This should act as a 5% damage buff against armour suits which would be sufficient in my opinion. A slight reduction in the recoil might also benefit the weapon, or no recoil when you first start firing until about 25% through the clip. 3. The SCP variants are now much weaker than the bolt pistol/ion pistol/magsec.... this is a sufficient problem because assault scp is barely used any more, it was nerfed excessively, IDK how this can be fixed without sufficient data research. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr



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