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Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4471	Posted - 2014.10.05 19:23:00 - [1] - Quote Has anyone done any quantitative testing on the Bolt Pistol? I canGÇÖt get the results on paper that I am getting with it in the field. On Paper: 229 damage + 15% (two damage mods) = 263,35 Two shots = 526.7 In the field: I have been consistently 2 shotting medium frame suits from full health(5 or 6 in 2 matches), and I one-shotted a Sniper on a water tower. (The Sniper was Gallente, but I am not sure if it was a Scout or a Medium frame. I assume I got a head shot, but I donGÇÖt remember the sound effect.) Most of the medium frame suits I 2 shotted where Amarr or Gallente. Generally the first shot takes out around 80% of the shields and the next shot kills them (of course that varies with suit). It GÇ£feelsGÇ¥ like the Bolt Pistol is getting +30% against armor. That of course is completely subjective, as I donGÇÖt know how my opponents were fit, but I would normally expect a medium frame to have over 600 HP and on paper two shots from a bolt pistol should only do 526.7 HP damage. (In my paper calcualtions I am assuming that the -10/+10 damage profile roughly cancels itself out.) The point of this thread is that I would like someone to do some quantitative testing to see exactly how much damage the Bolt Pistol is doing against Shields and Armor to determine if they match to what it should be doing. If it is not working as intended, then trying to balance it without spotting the bug could completely mess it up. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Crimson ShieId Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1011	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:49:00 - [2] - Quote Don't forget that the headshot multiplier is 225% Nova Knives are best sidearm.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4472	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:48:00 - [3] - Quote Yes, but I am fairly sure that most of these 2 shot kills are body shots. Anyway, it needs to be tested against a known fit that is standing still so it can be certain whether you are getting head or body shots. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3111	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:55:00 - [4] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Yes, but I am fairly sure that most of these 2 shot kills are body shots. Anyway, it needs to be tested against a known fit that is standing still so it can be certain whether you are getting head or body shots. I'd love to see more testing done on this. One thing that jumps out at me right away is that you are treading the 10/10 profile as evening out but your observations are about armor heavy suits where it is unlikely that the raw HP numbers are equal and thus very likely that the actual damage applied does not counterbalance. Regardless I totally agree this sidearm needs looked into and I shall be keeping an eye out. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Jebus McKing lol Proto 742	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:20:00 - [5] - Quote The damage of the Bolt Pistol is enough to 2-shot any starter fit and almost all militia medium or badly fitted standard suits and unfortunately nowadays 50% of each team seem to consist of players running those kind of suits. Also the basic medium suits did not get the same treatment as the assault suits so their tanking abilities are rather limited. Maybe that is why you think it does more damage than the stats say it should. The sad truth is most medium suits you come across don't even have 600hp. Not Haerr's alt. // Closed beta vet. // @JebusMcKing
Dingleburt Bangledack 269	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:34:00 - [6] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Yes, but I am fairly sure that most of these 2 shot kills are body shots. Anyway, it needs to be tested against a known fit that is standing still so it can be certain whether you are getting head or body shots. Hell, even that may not help. I can't even remember the number of times I got a headshot kill with my BP by shooting someone in the foot. Not to mention all the kills while aiming 10 feet to the right of my target... Something's definitely strange about the Bolt Pistol.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1881	Posted - 2014.10.06 01:22:00 - [7] - Quote Of all the weapons I use (mainly caldari ones) I feel like the bolt pistol has a higher than usual amount of aim assist. Perhaps that's what makes it so popular. Its not necessarily the damage, but the ease with which that damage is applied. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 761	Posted - 2014.10.06 03:15:00 - [8] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: The damage of the Bolt Pistol is enough to 2-shot any starter fit and almost all militia medium or badly fitted standard suits and unfortunately nowadays 50% of each team seem to consist of players running those kind of suits. Also the basic medium suits did not get the same treatment as the assault suits so their tanking abilities are rather limited. Maybe that is why you think it does more damage than the stats say it should. The sad truth is most medium suits you come across don't even have 600hp. A Logi has to sacrifice bulk vs effectiveness on the battlefield. Blame CCP and not the player.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8463	Posted - 2014.10.06 04:42:00 - [9] - Quote I was playing a lot yesterday, and yes, the BP kills quite quickly, and at all ranges. We will study it closely in the coming days. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

LOOKMOM NOHANDS Warpoint Sharx 1	Posted - 2014.10.06 05:12:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I was playing a lot yesterday, and yes, the BP kills quite quickly, and at all ranges. We will study it closely in the coming days. Fortunately it seems to be many peoples weapon of choice to attempt to name so there will be lots of data for your guys.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17130	Posted - 2014.10.06 05:48:00 - [11] - Quote I had once made the mistake of the 10/10 balancing out eventually but I have found out the hard way; it remotely does not as most suits do not have equal amounts of shields and armor. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Assault Rifles =// Unlocked
Jonny D Buelle Mors Effera 371	Posted - 2014.10.06 06:03:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I was playing a lot yesterday, and yes, the BP kills quite quickly, and at all ranges. We will study it closely in the coming days. My nerf senses are tingling... Drink until you can't drink no more. Then grab another bottle and drink some more! - Demetrious 'Jonny' Buelle.
LOOKMOM NOHANDS Warpoint Sharx 1	Posted - 2014.10.06 06:38:00 - [13] - Quote Jonny D Buelle wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I was playing a lot yesterday, and yes, the BP kills quite quickly, and at all ranges. We will study it closely in the coming days. My nerf senses are tingling... Unfortunately it will be safe for a while thanks to the event.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 564	Posted - 2014.10.06 07:43:00 - [14] - Quote hey ill be honest... NOBODY said the BP needed a buff. everyone thought it was fine the way it was. the only thing anybody said was when CCP Rattati balanced the sidearms based on DPS and range, he didn't include the charge up time before each shot. 10 mins after we told him, we suddenly had the current BP and no one thought it was warranted. so.. do i like the BP? yes lmao was it's buff deserved? no. it was fine the way it was. the headshot damage bonus wouldve been a nice enough of a added buff but 250 damage per shot makes the BP a better sniper rifle than anything else out there
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3118	Posted - 2014.10.06 08:52:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I was playing a lot yesterday, and yes, the BP kills quite quickly, and at all ranges. We will study it closely in the coming days. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, CCP Rattati, best Rattati See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 469	Posted - 2014.10.06 09:09:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I was playing a lot yesterday, and yes, the BP kills quite quickly, and at all ranges. We will study it closely in the coming days. you dont need to study it, it does too much damage and everyone knows it. You shouldn't be able to 3 shot almost any suit with a sidearm from 60 meters away.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3118	Posted - 2014.10.06 09:47:00 - [17] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I was playing a lot yesterday, and yes, the BP kills quite quickly, and at all ranges. We will study it closely in the coming days. you dont need to study it, it does too much damage and everyone knows it. You shouldn't be able to 3 shot almost any suit with a sidearm from 60 meters away. Damage is more than just a raw number there are many factors that play into the final damage which is applied. Further that applied damage number, even with all factors included, does not account for possible bugs or other aspects which could be improperly inflating performance. Knowing a thing is performing behind its intended level is one thing, knowing why and thus how to effectively remedy that, is quite another. Hence why it will be studied closely in the coming days. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3412	Posted - 2014.10.06 09:50:00 - [18] - Quote Given that a pistol that does 225 hp damage raw shouldn't be able to 4-shot a 1400 HP sentinel via bodyshot I would bank on an unexpected interaction or bug. Or people might be doing what I do and damage mod stacking on a calmando.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3412	Posted - 2014.10.06 10:07:00 - [19] - Quote Who wants to shoot me with a bolt pistol in five hours so we can record the resulting damage? I will volunteer both a commando set and a sentinel set and see how much actual is being applied. I can do this at about 8 AM pacific time.
2k2y Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 23	Posted - 2014.10.06 10:09:00 - [20] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I was playing a lot yesterday, and yes, the BP kills quite quickly, and at all ranges. We will study it closely in the coming days. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, CCP Rattati, best Rattati True.

shaman oga S.W.A.G. of J.E.B.U.S. 2910	Posted - 2014.10.06 10:46:00 - [21] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Given that a pistol that does 225 hp damage raw shouldn't be able to 4-shot a 1400 HP sentinel via bodyshot I would bank on an unexpected interaction or bug. Or people might be doing what I do and damage mod stacking on a calmando. With a proto bolt pistol and 3 sidearm damage mod, i do 341.51 damage, 1366.02 per clip. (i've not calculated resistance or bonus on shield armor) PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
Haerr Clone Manque 1566	Posted - 2014.10.06 11:00:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I was playing a lot yesterday, and yes, the BP kills quite quickly, and at all ranges. We will study it closely in the coming days. I much prefer the SMG over the BP since I find it really difficult to get hits in with the BP... Question: Can you see a difference in the BP performance data between controller users and mouse users? Not Jebus's alt. // Now residing in Ana. // ... I think I might be one of Appia's alts ...
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 11:45:00 - [23] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I had once made the mistake of the 10/10 balancing out eventually but I have found out the hard way; it remotely does not as most suits do not have equal amounts of shields and armor. Yes, but with the -10/+10 split, if the suit is 40% Shield/60% armor, that is still only +2% damage overall. If the damage profile was -20/+20 then it would be a bit more noticeable. When the fit is unknown 2% damage falls into the margin of error in the calculation. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3413	Posted - 2014.10.06 12:00:00 - [24] - Quote You aren't accounting for proficiency which puts another multiplier on the preferred tank breaching attribute gaden. The proficiency skill brings that up over 2% difference. Also it gets wonky with sentinels. Damage by RAW Without proficiency does 108% damage to caldari shields, for interest, not 120%. So there's a few altering factors here.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 12:04:00 - [25] - Quote Further field testing: -It took two shots to break through the shields on a Sentinel. (This seems to match the paper calculations.) -One shotted a Gallente Scout (Shoulder hit, not a head shot.) -Research facility Domination match. Mass Drivers above the objective vs Bolt pistols below. Bolt pistols won. It still GÇ£feelsGÇ¥ like it is doing more damage to armor than it should. (Although I was wrong about the HMG back in the day, so I could be wrong about this too.) I would not rule out the theory about stronger aim assist. But this has not been my impression so far. I will watch for it. The Bolt Pistol seems to hit like the Burst HMG, except with rifle range. If you correlate a round from the Bolt Pistol with a Burst from the Burst HMG, the HMG can lay down one more Burst of continuous fire than the Bolt Pistol, but the Bolt Pistol reloads very fast while the Burst HMG has either a 5 second overheat or 6 to 8 second reload (or both) before getting back in the fight. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 12:14:00 - [26] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Who wants to shoot me with a bolt pistol in five hours so we can record the resulting damage? I will volunteer both a commando set and a sentinel set and see how much actual is being applied. I can do this at about 8 AM pacific time. I am 4 hours ahead of you, so I donGÇÖt think I will be able to help. I am looking forward to seeing your results. I would say to use a brick tanked Sentinel for testing armor. Hold a flux grenade to strip shields and then start test. For shields just get the largest shield fit you have access to. I am thinking you may find it is working as intended against Shields, but is applying more damage than appropriate against armor. (Only a theory until you test it though. ) Get your assistant to use a suit with no Sidearm Damage mods, and a character with no Bolt Pistol proficiency if possible. It will make it easier to calculate the expected results. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 12:23:00 - [27] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You aren't accounting for proficiency which puts another multiplier on the preferred tank breaching attribute gaden. The proficiency skill brings that up over 2% difference. Also it gets wonky with sentinels. Damage by RAW Without proficiency does 108% damage to caldari shields, for interest, not 120%. So there's a few altering factors here. I only have 1 level in Bolt Pistol Operation. I have no Proficiency. I only leveled it to 1 to get that extra round in the clip because I am a terrible shot with high Alpha weapons. (I had to use a mouse with the Sniper Rifle.) I only tried the bolt pistol to get a feel for it since so many people were claiming it was OP. I was expected that the Bolt Pistol would suck for me compared to the Magsec, but with the Bolt Pistol, when I do hit them they die. I even find myself using the Bolt Pistol in CQC on my SMG/Bolt Pistol fit. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3413	Posted - 2014.10.06 13:43:00 - [28] - Quote Also part of the OP bitching is the assumption of accuracy. I find it much harder to successfully land bolt shots than with any weapon other than the flaylock. Yes it hits like a truck, no you aren't likely to hit moving targets in a firefight enough to kill them in one clip running the militia or standard. Most of my bolt kills are people who stand still for whatever reason. Shooting on the fly has an insanely hard failure rate. I wouldn't be surprised to find most of the "overperforming" is against stationary targets, especially using alts of friends to headshot to get better data results. Also I'm fairly certain there is a certain amount of manipulation of the data on the part of players who don't like things to make a weapon artificially overperform. We have a small enough player base that a few playing the numbers can artificially screw some (not all) of the data points.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 14:24:00 - [29] - Quote While I have noticed that around half of my deaths in the last weak were to Bolt Pistols, I did not consider that to be proof that it was OP. It could have just been that a lot of people were using it. Between the rumors of it being OP, and the sidearm event, it was not unexpected that it would be widely used. I made this thread after trying the Bolt Pistol myself because the results I got when using it were far better than expected. The Bolt Pistol seems balanced on paper, so the first thing we need to verify is whether its performance in the field matches the stats we have on paper. Only after we have that sorted can we properly discuss whether it is balanced properly. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3415	Posted - 2014.10.06 14:32:00 - [30] - Quote Yep. And if you are on in 40 minutes I'll let you shoot me in the face. And we can test it.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 14:41:00 - [31] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Yep. And if you are on in 40 minutes I'll let you shoot me in the face. And we can test it. 15:10 EVE time? I suppose I could drive home on my lunch break. I would only have time for one match, but that might be enough. Join Learning Coalition chat so you see when I log in. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1324	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:19:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I was playing a lot yesterday, and yes, the BP kills quite quickly, and at all ranges. We will study it closely in the coming days. Running it before buff it was acceptable. Possibly 'Hotfix' it with this layout - DMG 140-160-180 Along with keeping the headshot bonus it has now - Clip size +1// 5 in a clip with this damage would work better - MLT 130 DMG.? It is a bit over the top but a certain amount of that is needed to deal with other weapons Innapropriate Irrelevence... Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:20:00 - [33] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Yep. And if you are on in 40 minutes I'll let you shoot me in the face. And we can test it. Dude! I drove home from work, and you are not even online. I got to head back to work soon. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3415	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:34:00 - [34] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Yep. And if you are on in 40 minutes I'll let you shoot me in the face. And we can test it. Dude! I drove home from work, and you are not even online. I got to head back to work soon. Im on now. It farking snowed like six imches while I was at work. I am on
Kierkegaard Soren THE HANDS OF DEATH 531	Posted - 2014.10.06 16:06:00 - [35] - Quote I've also noticed that the BP seems to pulp armour in anythismaller than a heavy frame or a proto tanked gal medium; first shot strips the majority of shields, and the second kills outright. Admittedly satisfying, but it does feel too strong too be correct. Purely subjective opinion, mind you. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4477	Posted - 2014.10.06 16:11:00 - [36] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Yep. And if you are on in 40 minutes I'll let you shoot me in the face. And we can test it. Dude! I drove home from work, and you are not even online. I got to head back to work soon. Im on now. It farking snowed like six imches while I was at work. I am on Living in a goddamned subarctic rathole has a few downsides I missed you by about 10 minutes. I will probably be headed to bed by the time you get off work. Maybe you should find someone on the West coast to help you test. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4477	Posted - 2014.10.06 16:16:00 - [37] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: I've also noticed that the BP seems to pulp armour in anythismaller than a heavy frame or a proto tanked gal medium; first shot strips the majority of shields, and the second kills outright. Admittedly satisfying, but it does feel too strong too be correct. Purely subjective opinion, mind you. Yeah, that is what tipped me off. Getting just about through the shield on the first shot and then killing on the second against Gallente and Amarr medium frame suits which should have more Armor than Shields. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3418	Posted - 2014.10.06 17:18:00 - [38] - Quote Hey look you's guys! I let someone shoot me in the face! And as a result, I bring you NUMBERS! Go read the thread. soak up wisdom. Embrace your place in the universe and cook off a flux grenade in your right hand, and a core Locus in your left to achieve universal oneness. Edit: Wow one wrong letter on the word "cook" and the profanity filter kicks in.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3418	Posted - 2014.10.06 17:24:00 - [39] - Quote As a side note: the most common method for using all of the sidearms I have seen is for a player to use a primary weapon to soften the target up then swap over to the sidearm and finish them off. I've seen more than one sentinel hose someone down with an HMG then bust a cap in them with the bolt pistol. So people starting an engagement with the sidearm and FINISHING with the sidearm aren't as common as it may seem. exception: that idiot calscout who decided that he was going to shoot my calsent in the back (I have never seen a calscout so incompetent at shooting a fatty in the back). He followed up with pulling out his knives and I turned around and put a bolt round through his faceplate. Solved THAT problem REAL quick.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4477	Posted - 2014.10.06 17:30:00 - [40] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Hey look you's guys! I let someone shoot me in the face! And as a result, I bring you NUMBERS! Go read the thread. soak up wisdom. Embrace your place in the universe and cook off a flux grenade in your right hand, and a core Locus in your left to achieve universal oneness. Edit: Wow one wrong letter on the word "cook" and the profanity filter kicks in. Well that blows that theory. People must be fitting their suits like egg shells then. The fact that the Amarr Sentinel Rail Gun resistance is not being applied to the Bolt Pistol needs to be looked into though. I run Amarr Sentinel a lot, and I find that disturbing. Can you test that with a Magsec and a Rail Rifle? Hmm, and the Sniper Rifle, I really hope the resistance is applying to the Sniper rifle. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3420	Posted - 2014.10.06 17:40:00 - [41] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Hey look you's guys! I let someone shoot me in the face! And as a result, I bring you NUMBERS! Go read the thread. soak up wisdom. Embrace your place in the universe and cook off a flux grenade in your right hand, and a core Locus in your left to achieve universal oneness. Edit: Wow one wrong letter on the word "cook" and the profanity filter kicks in. Well that blows that theory. People must be fitting their suits like egg shells then. The fact that the Amarr Sentinel Rail Gun resistance is not being applied to the Bolt Pistol needs to be looked into though. I run Amarr Sentinel a lot, and I find that disturbing. Can you test that with a Magsec and a Rail Rifle? Hmm, and the Sniper Rifle, I really hope the resistance is applying to the Sniper rifle. sure, on another day when I don't need to go let a doctor poke me with needles.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4477	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:11:00 - [42] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Hey look you's guys! I let someone shoot me in the face! And as a result, I bring you NUMBERS! Go read the thread. soak up wisdom. Embrace your place in the universe and cook off a flux grenade in your right hand, and a core Locus in your left to achieve universal oneness. Edit: Wow one wrong letter on the word "cook" and the profanity filter kicks in. Well that blows that theory. People must be fitting their suits like egg shells then. The fact that the Amarr Sentinel Rail Gun resistance is not being applied to the Bolt Pistol needs to be looked into though. I run Amarr Sentinel a lot, and I find that disturbing. Can you test that with a Magsec and a Rail Rifle? Hmm, and the Sniper Rifle, I really hope the resistance is applying to the Sniper rifle. sure, on another day when I don't need to go let a doctor poke me with needles. Well I will not be running Amarr Sentinel again until after the Sidearm event, so you have plenty of time. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 566	Posted - 2014.10.06 23:41:00 - [43] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Given that a pistol that does 225 hp damage raw shouldn't be able to 4-shot a 1400 HP sentinel via bodyshot I would bank on an unexpected interaction or bug. Or people might be doing what I do and damage mod stacking on a calmando. Calmando bonus only works on light weapons
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1898	Posted - 2014.10.07 01:35:00 - [44] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Given that a pistol that does 225 hp damage raw shouldn't be able to 4-shot a 1400 HP sentinel via bodyshot I would bank on an unexpected interaction or bug. Or people might be doing what I do and damage mod stacking on a calmando. Calmando bonus only works on light weapons Calmando bonus works on all hybrid - rail tech, which the bolt pistol falls under. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Vesta Opalus Kang Lo Holding 44	Posted - 2014.10.07 05:17:00 - [45] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Yes, but I am fairly sure that most of these 2 shot kills are body shots. Anyway, it needs to be tested against a known fit that is standing still so it can be certain whether you are getting head or body shots. Theres alot of weakly tanked suits that new players are forced to use. Even militia heavies will only take 3-4 shots. Frontline/medic starter fits are complete crap and so are most standard suits. This is the same kind of imbalance that effects scrambler rifles and sniper rifles, the crappy low tier suits die horribly to them, often in 1 or 2 hits, while heavy tank proto suits make them all complete crap. Have fun when you find a 1k shield/armor caldari assault and try to kill him with that bolt pistol :\
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3431	Posted - 2014.10.07 07:54:00 - [46] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Given that a pistol that does 225 hp damage raw shouldn't be able to 4-shot a 1400 HP sentinel via bodyshot I would bank on an unexpected interaction or bug. Or people might be doing what I do and damage mod stacking on a calmando. Calmando bonus only works on light weapons Calmando bonus works on all hybrid - rail tech, which the bolt pistol falls under. There is no restriction on weapon size. A light weapon railgun is still a railgun. A sidearm railgun is still a railgun. The calmando bonus is to railguns, not light weapons.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3431	Posted - 2014.10.07 07:57:00 - [47] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Have fun when you find a 1k shield/armor caldari assault and try to kill him with that bolt pistol :\ Gallente Sentinel takes less damage on armor than the calsent takes on shields. So the galsent is the hardest suit to kill via caldari rail weapons. It's also why galsents can survive MLT/STD sniper forge gun shots.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 86	Posted - 2014.10.07 10:21:00 - [48] - Quote I get one shotted in my mil throw away assault suits with 3 basic armor mods dmg recieved 680 ehp 640. The scout was running swarms and bolt pistol I mean who needs a light weapon for combat right? With my advanced suit has even less hp so much for trying to move away from armor stacking you scrubs. If you guys are going to keep this broken weapon in this broken game you could at least give it some impact. A pistol that does more dmg then a sniper rifle and is silent someone should be fired over this. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3431	Posted - 2014.10.07 11:57:00 - [49] - Quote The Master Race wrote: I get one shotted in my mil throw away assault suits with 3 basic armor mods dmg recieved 680 ehp 640. The scout was running swarms and bolt pistol I mean who needs a light weapon for combat right? With my advanced suit has even less hp so much for trying to move away from armor stacking you scrubs. If you guys are going to keep this broken weapon in this broken game you could at least give it some impact. A pistol that does more dmg then a sniper rifle and is silent someone should be fired over this. So you ate a headshot in an undertanked suit and you are mad? I use my gallente assault freefit and it takes two shots (one a headshot) minimum to drop me. My cal suits have never been oneshot by a bolt pistol and my calssault is zero. I also don't stand still. Ever. I also note that in all cases except where I sat and let my demo shooter casually pop me until I died, every time I have been killed it has been by a primary weapon burning me down to low HP so the bolt pistol could finish the job. On average I go through two clips to kill a moving enemy with nothing but the bolt pistol. Burn down with a rail rigle followed by a killshot is much easier. The charge time makes lining up shots on moving targets annoying at best. At the moment it is the most common use weapon because it seems OP because a few players are hellspawned marksmen. The rest is oversaturation for the event because too many people are deluded into believing that it is easy mode kill farming. But when targets sit still or run shtfits they forget that running those cheap shtfits and sitting still makes it trivially easy to get sh*t on.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4481	Posted - 2014.10.07 12:08:00 - [50] - Quote The Master Race wrote: I get one shotted in my mil throw away assault suits with 3 basic armor mods dmg recieved 680 ehp 640. The scout was running swarms and bolt pistol I mean who needs a light weapon for combat right? With my advanced suit has even less hp so much for trying to move away from armor stacking you scrubs. If you guys are going to keep this broken weapon in this broken game you could at least give it some impact. A pistol that does more dmg then a sniper rifle and is silent someone should be fired over this. That is a little over dramatic. What seems to work on paper does not always work in the field. It is being looked at and as soon as the problem is properly understood it will be addressed. Besides, we only have 3 Devs still working on this project. We canGÇÖt afford to lose one! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3433	Posted - 2014.10.07 12:28:00 - [51] - Quote It's not a mystery. He ate a headshot from a std bolt pistol rocking double complex sidearm mods. I can do that math in my head. Freefits are free and thus crap. Complaining that your freefit disintegrates is like using aim assist and bitching that the game doesn't have homing bullets that cannot miss ever just for you. And why in God's name are you running an ADV suit with less tank than a free fit? If the word "scout" comes out you lose all credibility and your man card.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4481	Posted - 2014.10.07 12:37:00 - [52] - Quote Breakin Stuff, you either forgot to quote the post you are responding to, or you are reading stuff into my post which is not there. Edit: Oh, I see you were responding to Master. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Vesta Opalus Kang Lo Holding 44	Posted - 2014.10.07 13:02:00 - [53] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Have fun when you find a 1k shield/armor caldari assault and try to kill him with that bolt pistol :\ Gallente Sentinel takes less damage on armor than the calsent takes on shields. So the galsent is the hardest suit to kill via caldari rail weapons. It's also why galsents can survive MLT/STD sniper forge gun shots. Galsent is far easier to hit, which I think is the more critical factor with the bolt pistol :d
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 405	Posted - 2014.10.07 13:11:00 - [54] - Quote I really don't see the issue with the Bolt Pistol. Its DPS/Range ratio fits well within the acceptable curve, along with all the other pistols. It has the Least DPS among the pistols. Honestly, I think people just don't like to be killed by alpha damage weapons. They feel like it doesnt give them a chance, even though they often have a higher TTK than most of the other weapons. They dont like to be hit too hard basically, because it scares them and puts them into panic mode, which is on them. Don't panic when you get hit, respond, make sure they miss the second shot and third, instead of choking up. Alpha Damage weapons across the board take more skill and planning to use than the traditional bullet-hose type weapons. Honestly, its sad. As soon as Bolt Pistols get nerfed, the high skill players will just move onto the next decent alpha damage weapon, whatever it may be. At some point, I fully expect ~~people~~ scrubs to pick up their torches and pitchforks and go after the Plasma Cannon because "why should they get to kill me in one shot! It no fair! Nerf pls CCP!".
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 827	Posted - 2014.10.09 10:24:00 - [55] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: I really don't see the issue with the Bolt Pistol. Its DPS/Range ratio fits well within the acceptable curve, along with all the other pistols. It has the Least DPS among the pistols. Honestly, I think people just don't like to be killed by alpha damage weapons. They feel like it doesnt give them a chance, even though they often have a higher TTK than most of the other weapons. They dont like to be hit too hard basically, because it scares them and puts them into panic mode, which is on them. Don't panic when you get hit, respond, make sure they miss the second shot and third, instead of choking up. Alpha Damage weapons across the board take more skill and planning to use than the traditional bullet-hose type weapons. Honestly, its sad. As soon as Bolt Pistols get nerfed, the high skill players will just move onto the next decent alpha damage weapon, whatever it may be. At some point, I fully expect ~~people~~ scrubs to pick up their torches and pitchforks and go after the Plasma Cannon because "why should they get to kill me in one shot! It no fair! Nerf pls CCP!". 21kills 12 assists 3 deaths (5 hs kills) - Dual adv bolt pistols on an adv gal scout in ambush all kills HIP FIRED. How can you say a bolt pistol needs skill? LOL Seeing rattatis dispersion thread - if they can't remove AA from pistols they should look at increasing dispersion so much that hip firing a pistol is useless. ADS or GTFO!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3498	Posted - 2014.10.09 11:55:00 - [56] - Quote You're using it on a scout suit. That's no different than using a shotgun or NK fit. You get a cloak and are immune to radar. I have just discovered why bolt pistols are overperforming. Undetectable dropsuits that can trivially bypass hit detection. Thanks for the heads-up dude.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4524	Posted - 2014.10.09 15:14:00 - [57] - Quote It is basically a pocket Sniper Rifle. Maybe we should add a little bit of swayGÇª Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Dingleburt Bangledack 271	Posted - 2014.10.09 15:58:00 - [58] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: It is basically a pocket Sniper Rifle. Maybe we should add a little bit of swayGÇª That would probably just make it worthless at it's intended range while leaving it's outstanding CQC viability untouched.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 599	Posted - 2014.10.09 21:00:00 - [59] - Quote I hadn't realized until yesterday how effective the BP is when hip fired. It will thwak fools consistently in CQC. It's accuracy is good, crosshairs area is small and stays small when moving. I don't think it gets extra aim assist. It just demonstrates how the aim assist works with one shot. I do think it needs to be toned down but I like its new style.


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