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Bolt Pistol, the Fox says GÇ£What!?!GÇ¥

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4471	Posted - 2014.10.05 19:23:00 - [1] - Quote Has anyone done any quantitative testing on the Bolt Pistol? I canGÇÖt get the results on paper that I am getting with it in the field. On Paper: 229 damage + 15% (two damage mods) = 263,35 Two shots = 526.7 In the field: I have been consistently 2 shotting medium frame suits from full health(5 or 6 in 2 matches), and I one-shotted a Sniper on a water tower. (The Sniper was Gallente, but I am not sure if it was a Scout or a Medium frame. I assume I got a head shot, but I donGÇÖt remember the sound effect.) Most of the medium frame suits I 2 shotted where Amarr or Gallente. Generally the first shot takes out around 80% of the shields and the next shot kills them (of course that varies with suit). It GÇ£feelsGÇ¥ like the Bolt Pistol is getting +30% against armor. That of course is completely subjective, as I donGÇÖt know how my opponents were fit, but I would normally expect a medium frame to have over 600 HP and on paper two shots from a bolt pistol should only do 526.7 HP damage. (In my paper calcualtions I am assuming that the -10/+10 damage profile roughly cancels itself out.) The point of this thread is that I would like someone to do some quantitative testing to see exactly how much damage the Bolt Pistol is doing against Shields and Armor to determine if they match to what it should be doing. If it is not working as intended, then trying to balance it without spotting the bug could completely mess it up. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4472	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:48:00 - [2] - Quote Yes, but I am fairly sure that most of these 2 shot kills are body shots. Anyway, it needs to be tested against a known fit that is standing still so it can be certain whether you are getting head or body shots. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 11:45:00 - [3] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I had once made the mistake of the 10/10 balancing out eventually but I have found out the hard way; it remotely does not as most suits do not have equal amounts of shields and armor. Yes, but with the -10/+10 split, if the suit is 40% Shield/60% armor, that is still only +2% damage overall. If the damage profile was -20/+20 then it would be a bit more noticeable. When the fit is unknown 2% damage falls into the margin of error in the calculation. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 12:04:00 - [4] - Quote Further field testing: -It took two shots to break through the shields on a Sentinel. (This seems to match the paper calculations.) -One shotted a Gallente Scout (Shoulder hit, not a head shot.) -Research facility Domination match. Mass Drivers above the objective vs Bolt pistols below. Bolt pistols won. It still GÇ£feelsGÇ¥ like it is doing more damage to armor than it should. (Although I was wrong about the HMG back in the day, so I could be wrong about this too.) I would not rule out the theory about stronger aim assist. But this has not been my impression so far. I will watch for it. The Bolt Pistol seems to hit like the Burst HMG, except with rifle range. If you correlate a round from the Bolt Pistol with a Burst from the Burst HMG, the HMG can lay down one more Burst of continuous fire than the Bolt Pistol, but the Bolt Pistol reloads very fast while the Burst HMG has either a 5 second overheat or 6 to 8 second reload (or both) before getting back in the fight. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 12:14:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Who wants to shoot me with a bolt pistol in five hours so we can record the resulting damage? I will volunteer both a commando set and a sentinel set and see how much actual is being applied. I can do this at about 8 AM pacific time. I am 4 hours ahead of you, so I donGÇÖt think I will be able to help. I am looking forward to seeing your results. I would say to use a brick tanked Sentinel for testing armor. Hold a flux grenade to strip shields and then start test. For shields just get the largest shield fit you have access to. I am thinking you may find it is working as intended against Shields, but is applying more damage than appropriate against armor. (Only a theory until you test it though. ) Get your assistant to use a suit with no Sidearm Damage mods, and a character with no Bolt Pistol proficiency if possible. It will make it easier to calculate the expected results. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 12:23:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You aren't accounting for proficiency which puts another multiplier on the preferred tank breaching attribute gaden. The proficiency skill brings that up over 2% difference. Also it gets wonky with sentinels. Damage by RAW Without proficiency does 108% damage to caldari shields, for interest, not 120%. So there's a few altering factors here. I only have 1 level in Bolt Pistol Operation. I have no Proficiency. I only leveled it to 1 to get that extra round in the clip because I am a terrible shot with high Alpha weapons. (I had to use a mouse with the Sniper Rifle.) I only tried the bolt pistol to get a feel for it since so many people were claiming it was OP. I was expected that the Bolt Pistol would suck for me compared to the Magsec, but with the Bolt Pistol, when I do hit them they die. I even find myself using the Bolt Pistol in CQC on my SMG/Bolt Pistol fit. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 14:24:00 - [7] - Quote While I have noticed that around half of my deaths in the last weak were to Bolt Pistols, I did not consider that to be proof that it was OP. It could have just been that a lot of people were using it. Between the rumors of it being OP, and the sidearm event, it was not unexpected that it would be widely used. I made this thread after trying the Bolt Pistol myself because the results I got when using it were far better than expected. The Bolt Pistol seems balanced on paper, so the first thing we need to verify is whether its performance in the field matches the stats we have on paper. Only after we have that sorted can we properly discuss whether it is balanced properly. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 14:41:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Yep. And if you are on in 40 minutes I'll let you shoot me in the face. And we can test it. 15:10 EVE time? I suppose I could drive home on my lunch break. I would only have time for one match, but that might be enough. Join Learning Coalition chat so you see when I log in. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4476	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:20:00 - [9] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Yep. And if you are on in 40 minutes I'll let you shoot me in the face. And we can test it. Dude! I drove home from work, and you are not even online. I got to head back to work soon. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4477	Posted - 2014.10.06 16:11:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Yep. And if you are on in 40 minutes I'll let you shoot me in the face. And we can test it. Dude! I drove home from work, and you are not even online. I got to head back to work soon. Im on now. It farking snowed like six imches while I was at work. I am on Living in a goddamned subarctic rathole has a few downsides I missed you by about 10 minutes. I will probably be headed to bed by the time you get off work. Maybe you should find someone on the West coast to help you test. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4477	Posted - 2014.10.06 16:16:00 - [11] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: I've also noticed that the BP seems to pulp armour in anythismaller than a heavy frame or a proto tanked gal medium; first shot strips the majority of shields, and the second kills outright. Admittedly satisfying, but it does feel too strong too be correct. Purely subjective opinion, mind you. Yeah, that is what tipped me off. Getting just about through the shield on the first shot and then killing on the second against Gallente and Amarr medium frame suits which should have more Armor than Shields. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4477	Posted - 2014.10.06 17:30:00 - [12] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Hey look you's guys! I let someone shoot me in the face! And as a result, I bring you NUMBERS! Go read the thread. soak up wisdom. Embrace your place in the universe and cook off a flux grenade in your right hand, and a core Locus in your left to achieve universal oneness. Edit: Wow one wrong letter on the word "cook" and the profanity filter kicks in. Well that blows that theory. People must be fitting their suits like egg shells then. The fact that the Amarr Sentinel Rail Gun resistance is not being applied to the Bolt Pistol needs to be looked into though. I run Amarr Sentinel a lot, and I find that disturbing. Can you test that with a Magsec and a Rail Rifle? Hmm, and the Sniper Rifle, I really hope the resistance is applying to the Sniper rifle. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4477	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:11:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Hey look you's guys! I let someone shoot me in the face! And as a result, I bring you NUMBERS! Go read the thread. soak up wisdom. Embrace your place in the universe and cook off a flux grenade in your right hand, and a core Locus in your left to achieve universal oneness. Edit: Wow one wrong letter on the word "cook" and the profanity filter kicks in. Well that blows that theory. People must be fitting their suits like egg shells then. The fact that the Amarr Sentinel Rail Gun resistance is not being applied to the Bolt Pistol needs to be looked into though. I run Amarr Sentinel a lot, and I find that disturbing. Can you test that with a Magsec and a Rail Rifle? Hmm, and the Sniper Rifle, I really hope the resistance is applying to the Sniper rifle. sure, on another day when I don't need to go let a doctor poke me with needles. Well I will not be running Amarr Sentinel again until after the Sidearm event, so you have plenty of time. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4481	Posted - 2014.10.07 12:08:00 - [14] - Quote The Master Race wrote: I get one shotted in my mil throw away assault suits with 3 basic armor mods dmg recieved 680 ehp 640. The scout was running swarms and bolt pistol I mean who needs a light weapon for combat right? With my advanced suit has even less hp so much for trying to move away from armor stacking you scrubs. If you guys are going to keep this broken weapon in this broken game you could at least give it some impact. A pistol that does more dmg then a sniper rifle and is silent someone should be fired over this. That is a little over dramatic. What seems to work on paper does not always work in the field. It is being looked at and as soon as the problem is properly understood it will be addressed. Besides, we only have 3 Devs still working on this project. We canGÇÖt afford to lose one! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4481	Posted - 2014.10.07 12:37:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff, you either forgot to quote the post you are responding to, or you are reading stuff into my post which is not there. Edit: Oh, I see you were responding to Master. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4524	Posted - 2014.10.09 15:14:00 - [16] - Quote It is basically a pocket Sniper Rifle. Maybe we should add a little bit of swayGÇª Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

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