DUST Search - Is it too Early to start Discussing Hotfix Echo?

Commander Noctus wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

I am no where near the scout that Adipem Nothi is but I do have proto minja etc. and while it does not address all of your question, nor should it stand as a substituent to an answer from Adipem Nothi, I can readily say that part of the solution to the problem you outline is giving the logistics role some love/buffs. I am currently working on that very thing with heavy input from the community - the emphasis of which is to make the support role more specialized and unique while avoiding any meaningful risk of 'killer bees'.

Again this answer should not stifle the discussion present here, but I would say that best method may be to allow the logistics buff to roll out and then fine tune scouts, assaults, (and maybe logi) as needed once we see where things stand. (also the commando may need a pass as well, looking into that).

0.02 ISK
Cross

That's pretty much what I was thinking would be a sound path to take, though I don't think the commando's need much of anything. 50+ ehp maybe but there's really nothing we can give them that won't bleed into other classes.

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Underperformance of the Logistics class should be addressed as an altogether separate issue. There are a number of solid ideas being circulated, and on this point we'd do well to defer to Cross and the Logi Community at large.

As far as Scouts are concerned, I see no option other than to call upon Rattati's statistical prowess. Identifying the "problem children" in the Scoutly ranks would be solid first step. Once we know what to fix, the how to fix will be easy.

Awesome, then we're on the same page regarding this topic.

Someone should bring this scout matter up again to Rattati then so he can look at numbers, while we continue brainstorming ideas for Logis, who I really REALLY believe should be the topic of Echo now. Though that could be a different thread altogether.

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501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 623	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:47:00 - [61] - Quote Commander Noctus wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I am no where near the scout that Adipem Nothi is but I do have proto minja etc. and while it does not address all of your question, nor should it stand as a substituent to an answer from Adipem Nothi, I can readily say that part of the solution to the problem you outline is giving the logistics role some love/buffs. I am currently working on that very thing with heavy input from the community - the emphasis of which is to make the support role more specialized and unique while avoiding any meaningful risk of 'killer bees'. Again this answer should not stifle the discussion present here, but I would say that best method may be to allow the logistics buff to roll out and then fine tune scouts, assaults, (and maybe logi) as needed once we see where things stand. (also the commando may need a pass as well, looking into that). 0.02 ISK Cross That's pretty much what I was thinking would be a sound path to take, though I don't think the commando's need much of anything. 50+ ehp maybe but there's really nothing we can give them that won't bleed into other classes. Adipem Nothi wrote: Underperformance of the Logistics class should be addressed as an altogether separate issue. There are a number of solid ideas being circulated, and on this point we'd do well to defer to Cross and the Logi Community at large. As far as Scouts are concerned, I see no option other than to call upon Rattati's statistical prowess. Identifying the "problem children" in the Scoutly ranks would be solid first step. Once we know what to fix, the how to fix will be easy. Awesome, then we're on the same page regarding this topic. Someone should bring this scout matter up again to Rattati then so he can look at numbers, while we continue brainstorming ideas for Logis, who I really REALLY believe should be the topic of Echo now. Though that could be a different thread altogether. It can be this thread :) If we get a good discussion going in one place, makes it easy for the CPM and Devs to find, as well as other people. Posed Question: What buffs would you make to Logi without them inadvertently getting Slaying Capacity? CEO of GODS AMONG MEN/ Code name: Kronos Friendships are forged by war, enemies by peace Stars Wars Fan4ever, BFront3
The Master Race Immortal Guides 47	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:58:00 - [62] - Quote Worse yet the CR is a much higher quality weapon and the AR cost the same (It also doesn't hit ****). Really the cr just needs a crazy nerf it has little rise no dispersion (i know i know, but 4% of 0 is 0 lol) and is comparable dmg to ar and rr.(rr also needs nerf). New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5343	Posted - 2014.09.29 21:45:00 - [63] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Posed Question: What buffs would you make to Logi without them inadvertently getting Slaying Capacity? +1 Equipment for STD AM Logi +1 Equipment for STD CA Logi +1 High Slot for STD GA Logi +1 Low Slot for STD MN Logi + PG / CPU for all STD Logi ADV Logis - Defer to Logi Community PRO Logis - Defer to Logi Community Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7677	Posted - 2014.09.29 21:48:00 - [64] - Quote Gallente Assault would benefit more from a Range bonus than a RoF bonus but I can live with either. As long as it's better than the current bonus. Something's wrong when you regret Things that haven't happened yet
Commander Noctus Gallente Loyalist 82	Posted - 2014.09.30 00:20:00 - [65] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: It can be this thread :) If we get a good discussion going in one place, makes it easy for the CPM and Devs to find, as well as other people. Posed Question: What buffs would you make to Logi without them inadvertently getting Slaying Capacity? Commander Noctus wrote: For Logis a) Give them a bonus to ALL equipment while still keeping or buffing their specialty equipment. ALONG WITH: b) Reintroduce their rep bonus per level, decreasing it to 0.5 per level if 1 is too much. OR c) Increase speed to match Assaults or if that's too much, to 4.85. OR d) Give Logis the same HP as basic suits. OR e) b->d at a decreased value for each. I noted this on the first page of this Thread. Speaking to my siblings, who are better logis than I (we cover all 4 racial variants, with me being the Gal-Logi), they would be fine with A and D being implemented at minimum. I myself would like at minimum A to be done. As for the values, I'm a little bit stuck on that. I do want a boost, but the values are already pretty high compared to other skills. Also, I'm pretty **** at graphing and all other works most mercs here do to provide points, so I'm just going to give starting suggestions. Looking at the numbers there, I'd wager a 3-5% boost for the main Logi skill (currently +10% active scanner visibility for Gal Logis) and a 2-3% boost to the secondary skill (currently 5% active scanner precision per level). This should be a healthy boost without going too overboard on the buffing. At least that's what I hope. And regarding adding efficiency to all other non racial equipment (Amarr Logi using a rep tool), probably a 3-5% efficiency depending on how high the others are boosted. Of course, this will require a look into Dampening and whatnot. Some other ideas I'll throw out that I've heard or thought of are: 1) Increasing the CPU/PG reduction on equipment. Pro: Can pretty much fit proto everything regarding equipment. Con: Cloaks are equipment too, I don't think having a cloaked Logi around would do much for survival as it would for slaying. which is problem 2: more CPU/PG with proto to mostly-proto equipment could lead to really high tanks. 2) Give all Logis a sidearm Pros: More defense, especially now with Delta's sidearm boost. Overall, the Logi can survive longer. Cons: A decent (ADV) sidearm cuts into CPU/PG. Also, that removes a unique feature of the Amarr Logi. And, again, more slaying capability (not much, but should be noted). 3) Standardize Equipment Slots per Tier Pros: Awesome, now that Cal Logi is on the same level as that Gal Logi in terms of equipment and utility! Cons: Not too much really, except for whether the Cal & Amarr will be gaining a slot or the Gal & Min be losing a slot. Also, CPU/PG again. That's all I got for now. Disclaimer: I'm not a full-time Logi so don't take these thoughts as law or something. Just reasonable suggestions to get the ball rolling.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 627	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:01:00 - [66] - Quote The suggestions above seem reasonable enough. The issue with 1.6 Slayer Logis was they could rep and Brick-tank simultaneously. Gal Logis still rep, they just don't have an Enhanced Armor Repper built in... I don't know. I'll have a better response when I get home from school 07 CEO of GODS AMONG MEN/ Code name: Kronos Friendships are forged by war, enemies by peace Stars Wars Fan4ever, BFront3
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 627	Posted - 2014.09.30 19:55:00 - [67] - Quote What about the Commando Class? CEO of GODS AMONG MEN/ Code name: Kronos Friendships are forged by war, enemies by peace Stars Wars Fan4ever, BFront3
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1005	Posted - 2014.10.01 04:38:00 - [68] - Quote logistics suits have been fundamentally broken since day 1. idk why they would even bother with bonuses when the suits are just inherently designed wrong. caldari and min logi need shield tools as primary equipment then secondary equipment bonuses. like remote explosives and nanite stuff. amarr and gallente need armor repair tool bonuses/ and secondary equipment bonuses to uplinks and scanners. this is how it works in eve and eve doesnt have a bunch of balance issues. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2309	Posted - 2014.10.01 04:44:00 - [69] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: logistics suits have been fundamentally broken since day 1. idk why they would even bother with bonuses when the suits are just inherently designed wrong. caldari and min logi need shield tools as primary equipment then secondary equipment bonuses. like remote explosives and nanite stuff. amarr and gallente need armor repair tool bonuses/ and secondary equipment bonuses to uplinks and scanners. this is how it works in eve and eve doesnt have a bunch of balance issues. 100% agreement. We need shield rep tools, and the bonuses should be split exactly how you described. Best PvE idea ever!
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1005	Posted - 2014.10.01 04:48:00 - [70] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: logistics suits have been fundamentally broken since day 1. idk why they would even bother with bonuses when the suits are just inherently designed wrong. caldari and min logi need shield tools as primary equipment then secondary equipment bonuses. like remote explosives and nanite stuff. amarr and gallente need armor repair tool bonuses/ and secondary equipment bonuses to uplinks and scanners. this is how it works in eve and eve doesnt have a bunch of balance issues. 100% agreement. We need shield rep tools, and the bonuses should be split exactly how you described. yeah ive been saying this stuff since last year months before the fanfest fiasco but no one listens or cares about fixing the game i guess. oh well (shrugs) Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.

501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 627	Posted - 2014.10.01 10:16:00 - [71] - Quote Updating the OP CEO of GODS AMONG MEN/ Code name: Kronos Friendships are forged by war, enemies by peace Stars Wars Fan4ever, BFront3
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3011	Posted - 2014.10.01 23:01:00 - [72] - Quote Logistics feedback thread. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2314	Posted - 2014.10.01 23:40:00 - [73] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Logistics feedback thread. Cheers, Cross I already posted this there a while ago. Best PvE idea ever!


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