DUST Search - Is it too Early to start Discussing Hotfix Echo?

Commander Noctus wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

501st Headstrong wrote:

So at this point, do you believe Scouts are fine in the game?

I believe we are closer than ever to dropsuit balance. That said, I suspect that room for improvement exists in specific instances of both the Scout and the Logi. For instance:

I suspect that Shotgun Scouts are outperforming other builds (especially at lower levels).
I suspect that heavily brick-tanked GA and AM Scouts may have too much working in their favor.
I suspect that STD Scouts are able to out-logi STD AM and CA Logis (thank you, John Demonsbane).

I trust that Rattati and Logibro closely monitor performance statistics for outliers. When they (or CPM) bring a problem to our attention, I believe we should strive to solve the problem in a way which minimizes collateral damage to non-offenders.

If our ultimate goal is dropsuit balance, we should seek to avoid sweeping, debilitating changes like those proposed here by Blackstar. To cripple an entire class would constitute a significant loss in progress toward our goal, and to do so on account of an isolated instance of imbalance -- rather than addressing that instance alone -- would be nothing short of stupid.

We do not treat a brain tumor by cutting off the head.

Ok, the latter half of your argument actually convinced me. Personally still have a little issue with fast moving, high ehp scouts with a tiny hit-box but now I see that Blackstar's changes are indeed a bit much.

Would you suggest buffing the other suits more and not touch scouts at all? Experience on the battlefield both observing and playing as a 'logi scout', scouts do a much better job as a logi, with such high mobility, regeneration, and the ability to carry essential medic gear at least (rep + needle). Also, as I alluded to before, scouts can also achieve slightly better slaying powers than Assaults. What, then, is your (a seasoned and well-informed scout I believe) solution to this?


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Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2908	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:08:00 - [1] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: While CCP is doing flying passes on Delta, we can start a list of MUSTS for Echo: 1. Looking at Logi Bonuses 2. Officer Weapons and Fleshed out LP store 3. Changing Gallente and Caldari Assault Bonuses 4. Adding back in Vehcies removed prior to 1.7 as well as modules. 5. Fixing the Ambush Spawn System In process right now. Ongoing - CPM hopes to advocate for moving it up the list in Echo Has been discussed/is being reviewed (feel free to post threads on the subject or bump threads which support the changes you'd like to see. I'm pushing for this to happen but it is a larger undertaking, not sure if it will make it into Echo. Elaborate/link please? Specifics are useful Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2909	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:00:00 - [2] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Keep it coming guys, this is a good thread. :D ^Very much this. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2917	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:53:00 - [3] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Updating OP. @Cross and Soraya- Honestly guys, The Lp Store is something that NEEDS to happen very soon. Many people were dismayed at that absence in Delta, and while the game feels faster, it still lacks that umph that we were expecting. People are starting to think there's a conspiracy lol. But thank you guys for the rapid responses. OP being set up. I am totally in support of a fully stocked LP store, have been since before the elections or the "arrival" of CCP R actually so rest assured it is something that is being pushed for. More content > less content It's just a question of what goes in when/first, and thus for how long each given thing takes to complete and implement. As I understand it adding all those items isn't complicated but it is heavily time consuming. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2917	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:54:00 - [4] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: [quote=Stefan Stahl]Here's my hitlist: - Sorting out rifle fitting requirements (they are all equally useful now, but have vastly different fitting reqs) Yeah, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either. A basic CR and a basic RR (used for familiarity purposes, I am skilled into both) should be equally good at what they do, right? They both have the same ISK cost. But, for some reason, the CPU-PG requirements for the basic RR are higher than the CR. I use both and see the positives/negatives of each. I'm just not sure why their fitting requirements are different because they are meant for different suits. a caldari suit doesnt have the same cpu/pg as a minmatar suit. its to encourage racial fitting instead of frankenstein fits. when i use same race gear and weapons on the matching racial suit, i dont have fitting issues. this should be intended Agreed Death Yep, this. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2919	Posted - 2014.09.28 21:29:00 - [5] - Quote Lady MDK wrote: @cpm1 Ccp stated no client updates at least in the medium to long term... How far into this term are we? We have now endured over a years worth of numbers changes with little actual new content. That is more of a budgeting decision than a development one, as such it is a bit beyond the sphere of even the CPM NDA broadly speaking. What I can tell you is the (perhaps obvious) fundamental business baseline, which is that more revenue from a project increases the frequency and likelihood of corporate reinvestment in said project (unless you are EA, but let's not talk about EA). Quote: I don't call returning bpo suits at monaclegate prices new content. Nor would I call returning vehicles that were broken new. The prices are the same as they were when the suits and mods were removed, indeed they are the same prices as they have been throughout most of Dusts history (I know, I own most of that stuff). They are also hardly worthy a "monaclegate" comparison, not a single one of them is $75USD nor are the BPOs just reintroduced purely cosmetic items as the monocle was. Now if you want to make the contention that they are priced too highly, do feel free, in fact put together a thread on it and post that in this sub-forum, but let us not be hyperbolic about it that serves no constructive purpose. Quote: Please encourage ccp to prioritise completion of missing weapons and vehicles, even if the assets are finally intended for legion, and use them in dust. Also what new game modes are being considered when updates are possible? Already on it in both instances. Return of prior content and addition of absent content such as racial weapon types LP items, and hopefully even map sockets are all things I personally and the CPM broadly have been pushing for. Granted there are development constraints to consider (for that aspect see the first part of my reply) but we (the CPM) have made our advocacy clear on this subject and we have not simply subsided into silence after the first time we raised the prospect either. As to game modes both a 'capture the flag' style mode and a 'mobile objective' style mode have been talked about by the CPM, once more if/when on these is subject to resources which is subject to incoming revenue (business being business even in the gaming industry) but neither the Dust team nor the CPM are blind to how valuable new play content would be or how much the community desires it. I believe I can say with relative confidence that if the resources for such are made present then these items will sit near the top of the list (right along with engine optimization and fixing major bugs) as things to get done post haste. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2922	Posted - 2014.09.28 23:05:00 - [6] - Quote Commander Noctus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: So at this point, do you believe Scouts are fine in the game? I believe we are closer than ever to dropsuit balance. That said, I suspect that room for improvement exists in specific instances of both the Scout and the Logi. For instance: I suspect that Shotgun Scouts are outperforming other builds (especially at lower levels). I suspect that heavily brick-tanked GA and AM Scouts may have too much working in their favor. I suspect that STD Scouts are able to out-logi STD AM and CA Logis (thank you, John Demonsbane). I trust that Rattati and Logibro closely monitor performance statistics for outliers. When they (or CPM) bring a problem to our attention, I believe we should strive to solve the problem in a way which minimizes collateral damage to non-offenders. If our ultimate goal is dropsuit balance, we should seek to avoid sweeping, debilitating changes like those proposed here by Blackstar. To cripple an entire class would constitute a significant loss in progress toward our goal, and to do so on account of an isolated instance of imbalance -- rather than addressing that instance alone -- would be nothing short of stupid. We do not treat a brain tumor by cutting off the head. Ok, the latter half of your argument actually convinced me. Personally still have a little issue with fast moving, high ehp scouts with a tiny hit-box but now I see that Blackstar's changes are indeed a bit much. Would you suggest buffing the other suits more and not touch scouts at all? Experience on the battlefield both observing and playing as a 'logi scout', scouts do a much better job as a logi, with such high mobility, regeneration, and the ability to carry essential medic gear at least (rep + needle). Also, as I alluded to before, scouts can also achieve slightly better slaying powers than Assaults. What, then, is your (a seasoned and well-informed scout I believe) solution to this? I am no where near the scout that Adipem Nothi is but I do have proto minja etc. and while it does not address all of your question, nor should it stand as a substituent to an answer from Adipem Nothi, I can readily say that part of the solution to the problem you outline is giving the logistics role some love/buffs. I am currently working on that very thing with heavy input from the community - the emphasis of which is to make the support role more specialized and unique while avoiding any meaningful risk of 'killer bees'. Again this answer should not stifle the discussion present here, but I would say that best method may be to allow the logistics buff to roll out and then fine tune scouts, assaults, (and maybe logi) as needed once we see where things stand. (also the commando may need a pass as well, looking into that). 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2922	Posted - 2014.09.28 23:11:00 - [7] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Lady MDK wrote: @cpm1 Ccp stated no client updates at least in the medium to long term... How far into this term are we? We have now endured over a years worth of numbers changes with little actual new content. That is more of a budgeting decision than a development one, as such it is a bit beyond the sphere of even the CPM NDA broadly speaking. What I can tell you is the (perhaps obvious) fundamental business baseline, which is that more revenue from a project increases the frequency and likelihood of corporate reinvestment in said project... There is a strong business case for making these available in DUST. The assets will need to be produced for Legion anyways. Allowing DUST players to help balance them ahead of time is incredibly valuable to having a smooth launch and getting strong positive reviews which will have a major impact on CCP's bottom line in the years ahead. It will likely increase player retention significantly of the existing DUST mercs, and could possibly entice those who left to return. This should result in income via booster sales (and possibly from AUR variants as well). Might it be possible to run a special event to help fund this development effort? Perhaps we could buy some special whatever (that would carry over to Legion) for a reasonable price. If we buy x number then CCP will commit to releasing the missing vehicles, turrets and heavy weapons. Just an idea. Please keep on them about this regularly. Keep up the good work o7. I like the cut of your jib sir While these are not my calls to make (more of a upper management above the dev team thing as I understand it) I certainly have had thoughts along the same lines and have been communicating such to CCP (nor am I alone among the CPM in doing so). However the more community feedback and support that is present (such as your post above) for these sorts of ideas the more traction we have for making this case. Also the more AUR/boosters/BPOs et al that are already being purchased the less difficult of a case it is to make from the get go. So in a sense your second concept of offering ways to buy special items to gain new content has a method in place already (admittedly it is a workaround and as such not as idea as what you propose). Keep it up with posting, and anyone reading this who agrees with/would participate in any of this sort of behavior/purchase please speak up. What do you want? What would motivate you? How could that be delivered? Your CPM is listening, give me more to bring to CCP Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2934	Posted - 2014.09.29 17:47:00 - [8] - Quote @Thread (and most recently Adipem Nothi, 501st Headstrong, and Commander Noctus). I love seeing constructive debate and discussion going on and thank everyone who has chosen to participate in such. Re: maps and content, we'll keep at it, finding ways to add more content and polish what is already present is a win-win for all involved and I do not believe I am overstating the case to say that CCP Rattati knows and agrees with this. To be blunt I have been more impressed than I ever expected to be by the dedication and passion (I know both often overused buzz words in gaming, but seriously they fit) CCP Rattati has displays towards Dust. Re: Balance passes, that first step of logi polish is moving forward and I am crossing my fingers that maybe the stars will align such that I have something to present to the community for review before very much longer. Once that is in the pipe a deeper look at the comparative metrics for infantry roles would be a solid next step and I believe that is exactly what is intended going forward. @Thread again, keep the feedback coming everyone Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3011	Posted - 2014.10.01 23:01:00 - [9] - Quote Logistics feedback thread. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)