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Commander Noctus
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Posted - 2014.09.26 00:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
For Echo, we should focus the Logistics class and basic suit bonuses, as well as changing the Gal and Cal bonus.
For Logis
a) Give them a bonus to ALL equipment while still keeping or buffing their specialty equipment. ALONG WITH: b) Reintroduce their rep bonus per level, decreasing it to 0.5 per level if 1 is too much. OR c) Increase speed to match Assaults or if that's too much, to 4.85. OR d) Give Logis the same HP as basic suits. OR e) b->d at a decreased value for each.
Of course, that's just some ideas, if there are other better ones, please share since the community changes are usually better than what I think up. And no, I don't want slayers to come back, believe me, I still remember the days of getting blasted apart by them.
As for basics, make the suits cheaper is all I can currently think of doing. There was a thread discussing Gal and Cal bonuses a while back. People were leaning towards a 3% Range for Gal and a 3% Kick Reduction for Cal. Other ideas were suggested too.
Anyway, there's my two cents. Foxtrot should focus completely on vehicle re-balance, since I believe AV has a liiiittle bit of an unfair advantage. After, Golf can focus on wrapping things up and maybe, just maybe, 1.9 will be the reintroduction of ALL previously removed items (Marauders, Black Ops, Logi & Scout LAV, vehicle mods, etc)! |
Commander Noctus
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Posted - 2014.09.28 22:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:501st Headstrong wrote:So at this point, do you believe Scouts are fine in the game? I believe we are closer than ever to dropsuit balance. That said, I suspect that room for improvement exists in specific instances of both the Scout and the Logi. For instance: I suspect that Shotgun Scouts are outperforming other builds (especially at lower levels). I suspect that heavily brick-tanked GA and AM Scouts may have too much working in their favor. I suspect that STD Scouts are able to out-logi STD AM and CA Logis (thank you, John Demonsbane). I trust that Rattati and Logibro closely monitor performance statistics for outliers. When they (or CPM) bring a problem to our attention, I believe we should strive to solve the problem in a way which minimizes collateral damage to non-offenders. If our ultimate goal is dropsuit balance, we should seek to avoid sweeping, debilitating changes like those proposed here by Blackstar. To cripple an entire class would constitute a significant loss in progress toward our goal, and to do so on account of an isolated instance of imbalance -- rather than addressing that instance alone -- would be nothing short of stupid. We do not treat a brain tumor by cutting off the head.
Ok, the latter half of your argument actually convinced me. Personally still have a little issue with fast moving, high ehp scouts with a tiny hit-box but now I see that Blackstar's changes are indeed a bit much.
Would you suggest buffing the other suits more and not touch scouts at all? Experience on the battlefield both observing and playing as a 'logi scout', scouts do a much better job as a logi, with such high mobility, regeneration, and the ability to carry essential medic gear at least (rep + needle). Also, as I alluded to before, scouts can also achieve slightly better slaying powers than Assaults. What, then, is your (a seasoned and well-informed scout I believe) solution to this? |
Commander Noctus
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Posted - 2014.09.29 16:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quote:I am no where near the scout that Adipem Nothi is but I do have proto minja etc. and while it does not address all of your question, nor should it stand as a substituent to an answer from Adipem Nothi, I can readily say that part of the solution to the problem you outline is giving the logistics role some love/buffs. I am currently working on that very thing with heavy input from the community - the emphasis of which is to make the support role more specialized and unique while avoiding any meaningful risk of 'killer bees'.
Again this answer should not stifle the discussion present here, but I would say that best method may be to allow the logistics buff to roll out and then fine tune scouts, assaults, (and maybe logi) as needed once we see where things stand. (also the commando may need a pass as well, looking into that).
0.02 ISK Cross
That's pretty much what I was thinking would be a sound path to take, though I don't think the commando's need much of anything. 50+ ehp maybe but there's really nothing we can give them that won't bleed into other classes.
Quote:Underperformance of the Logistics class should be addressed as an altogether separate issue. There are a number of solid ideas being circulated, and on this point we'd do well to defer to Cross and the Logi Community at large.
As far as Scouts are concerned, I see no option other than to call upon Rattati's statistical prowess. Identifying the "problem children" in the Scoutly ranks would be solid first step. Once we know what to fix, the how to fix will be easy.
Awesome, then we're on the same page regarding this topic.
Someone should bring this scout matter up again to Rattati then so he can look at numbers, while we continue brainstorming ideas for Logis, who I really REALLY believe should be the topic of Echo now. Though that could be a different thread altogether. |
Commander Noctus
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Posted - 2014.09.30 00:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote: It can be this thread :) If we get a good discussion going in one place, makes it easy for the CPM and Devs to find, as well as other people.
Posed Question: What buffs would you make to Logi without them inadvertently getting Slaying Capacity?
Commander Noctus wrote:For Logis
a) Give them a bonus to ALL equipment while still keeping or buffing their specialty equipment. ALONG WITH: b) Reintroduce their rep bonus per level, decreasing it to 0.5 per level if 1 is too much. OR c) Increase speed to match Assaults or if that's too much, to 4.85. OR d) Give Logis the same HP as basic suits. OR e) b->d at a decreased value for each.
I noted this on the first page of this Thread. Speaking to my siblings, who are better logis than I (we cover all 4 racial variants, with me being the Gal-Logi), they would be fine with A and D being implemented at minimum. I myself would like at minimum A to be done. As for the values, I'm a little bit stuck on that. I do want a boost, but the values are already pretty high compared to other skills. Also, I'm pretty **** at graphing and all other works most mercs here do to provide points, so I'm just going to give starting suggestions.
Looking at the numbers there, I'd wager a 3-5% boost for the main Logi skill (currently +10% active scanner visibility for Gal Logis) and a 2-3% boost to the secondary skill (currently 5% active scanner precision per level). This should be a healthy boost without going too overboard on the buffing. At least that's what I hope. And regarding adding efficiency to all other non racial equipment (Amarr Logi using a rep tool), probably a 3-5% efficiency depending on how high the others are boosted. Of course, this will require a look into Dampening and whatnot.
Some other ideas I'll throw out that I've heard or thought of are: 1) Increasing the CPU/PG reduction on equipment. Pro: Can pretty much fit proto everything regarding equipment.
Con: Cloaks are equipment too, I don't think having a cloaked Logi around would do much for survival as it would for slaying. which is problem 2: more CPU/PG with proto to mostly-proto equipment could lead to really high tanks.
2) Give all Logis a sidearm Pros: More defense, especially now with Delta's sidearm boost. Overall, the Logi can survive longer.
Cons: A decent (ADV) sidearm cuts into CPU/PG. Also, that removes a unique feature of the Amarr Logi. And, again, more slaying capability (not much, but should be noted).
3) Standardize Equipment Slots per Tier Pros: Awesome, now that Cal Logi is on the same level as that Gal Logi in terms of equipment and utility!
Cons: Not too much really, except for whether the Cal & Amarr will be gaining a slot or the Gal & Min be losing a slot. Also, CPU/PG again.
That's all I got for now.
Disclaimer: I'm not a full-time Logi so don't take these thoughts as law or something. Just reasonable suggestions to get the ball rolling. |
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