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Is it too Early to start Discussing Hotfix Echo?

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Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 755	Posted - 2014.09.27 15:16:00 - [31] - Quote Here's one from my long-term wishlist: - Amarr-ish variant of the Madrugar, Minmatar-ish variant of the Gunnlogi. - Same things for LAVs and DS.
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2290	Posted - 2014.09.27 16:56:00 - [32] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Another one: add ISK efficiency stat in the EoM leaderboard (if possible in a hotfix). Value of ISK destroyed (or ISK-equivalent if AUR/LP/BPO) minus value of ISK lost (or ISK equivalent) divided by total deaths. This stat should also be tracked as the primary one on the global leaderboards and by corp. Only problem I have with that, a corporation of Ji-haders would rank higher than a corp of Militia characters... True. No one stat is perfect, but I think it would add a lot to the game, particularly for new players which should have pretty decent scores from necessarily running cheap gear. It would discourage pub stomping and it helps shape perceptions about what a victory is. If you have a high K/D but a large negative ISK efficiency it looks much less impressive. Along these lines it would be great if we could add assists to the EoM leaderboards (I.e. K/D/A). I use laser weapons a lot, which often results in many more assists than kills. It would be nice to have more to show for my efforts at the end of the match. Again, this would benefit new players as they are likely to have more assists than kills. Giving them a sense of accomplishment and positive reinforcement may significantly boost their positive feelings about the game and reduce feelings of discouragement that may otherwise contribute to them quitting the game. Best PvE idea ever!
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 601	Posted - 2014.09.27 17:28:00 - [33] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Another one: add ISK efficiency stat in the EoM leaderboard (if possible in a hotfix). Value of ISK destroyed (or ISK-equivalent if AUR/LP/BPO) minus value of ISK lost (or ISK equivalent) divided by total deaths. This stat should also be tracked as the primary one on the global leaderboards and by corp. Only problem I have with that, a corporation of Ji-haders would rank higher than a corp of Militia characters... True. No one stat is perfect, but I think it would add a lot to the game, particularly for new players which should have pretty decent scores from necessarily running cheap gear. It would discourage pub stomping and it helps shape perceptions about what a victory is. If you have a high K/D but a large negative ISK efficiency it looks much less impressive. Along these lines it would be great if we could add assists to the EoM leaderboards (I.e. K/D/A). I use laser weapons a lot, which often results in many more assists than kills. It would be nice to have more to show for my efforts at the end of the match. Again, this would benefit new players as they are likely to have more assists than kills. Giving them a sense of accomplishment and positive reinforcement may significantly boost their positive feelings about the game and reduce feelings of discouragement that may otherwise contribute to them quitting the game. I could most definitely get behind this :) CEO of GODS AMONG MEN/ Code name: Kronos Friendships are forged by war, enemies by peace Stars Wars Fan4ever, BFront3
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 603	Posted - 2014.09.27 18:00:00 - [34] - Quote Blackstar had a magnificent spreadsheet made, check it out guys Blackstar on Scout Ewar CEO of GODS AMONG MEN/ Code name: Kronos Friendships are forged by war, enemies by peace Stars Wars Fan4ever, BFront3
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1005	Posted - 2014.09.27 19:08:00 - [35] - Quote RR nerf This weapon is just too good at everything CQC or at Range thing thing eats you alive AScR buff This weapon is underpowered and useless. We need to bring it back to a competitive level Pokemon master! Death to all Swarm scrubs CCP please buff AScR and normal AR :(
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 559	Posted - 2014.09.27 19:46:00 - [36] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Another one: add ISK efficiency stat in the EoM leaderboard (if possible in a hotfix). Value of ISK destroyed (or ISK-equivalent if AUR/LP/BPO) minus value of ISK lost (or ISK equivalent) divided by total deaths. This stat should also be tracked as the primary one on the global leaderboards and by corp. Hell yes. Only problem I have with that, a corporation of Ji-haders would rank higher than a corp of Militia characters...I'll add to the OP yes their isk effiency would rank higher, but their win/loss ratio and kd/r would still likely show the truth about them. we need all three honestly. i feel this would change the meta in the long run. i've mentioned this before in another thread about team balancing https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=175528&p=2 DeathwindRising wrote: nicholas73 wrote: Maybe the gear used should also be taken into account?? I don't know how you can do it but it would be really helpful. Imagine 2 teams with relatively equal strength based on their Mu score, but one team uses full proto and the other team is broke and running militia or basic gear. It would still be a stomping with equal skills. The gear used is equally important in Dust, so the matchmaking system of other games don't work for dust. the most important stat missing in the Dust is the isk efficiency ratio. how much isk are we destroying and losing per clone? it should also be a collective stat for corps as well. so we can see truly, who the more effective players and corps are. running proto and stomping std and adv gear doesnt make you good. stomping adv and proto gear while running std gear makes you good. dust doesnt acknowledge this. for a game that is primarily about making money as effectively as possible, dust does do anything to showcase this. Kaeru Nayiri wrote: If people spend more ISK to push the win for their team, They deserve the win. I don't think this is a good mindset for balance. The issue with protostomping is when it is done without any good reason. If someone has the extra cash or doesn't die, they just don't have a reason to downgrade their equipment and use proto every spawn of every match. However in any given match, a player should be allowed to up the ante and win the match for their contractor. they would have a reason to not proto stomp if they knew corps could see that they died 6 or 7 times in their 150K isk proto suit but only killed 20 suits worth 15K isk. i saw some nyain san guys i squadded with die 8 times each in proto while i died only 4 times in std gear. the current dust stats show only the quantity of kills and deaths, but the quality matters just as much. especially for small corps, an isk efficiency ratio shows that they can "hurt" larger corps and alliances even if they cant field the manpower to hold a district.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5295	Posted - 2014.09.27 21:10:00 - [37] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: 6. Scout bonuses changed to module efface based on level of the module and Scout level. For example: A GK.0 scout with proto modules should get a 10% bonus to their complex dampener, PLUS whatever the meta level of it is. Bring in some meaning to the thing. This would equate to about 40% dampening, what it currently is, but it would make scouts not run just brick-tanks, unless you want a more mobile suit than the Assault, which is okay. However, the inherent bonuses of the scout make it very powerful. Blackstar on Suit EWAR Three questions: 1) From whose ass was this pulled? 2) What qualifications does said ass possess on the subject of Scouts? 3) Why pull from ass when a dedicated and knowledgeable resource is at your fingertips? You and Blackstar should run this plan by the Barbershop. We'd be glad to help you flesh out the good and punch holes in the bad (there's alot of bad). Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
The Master Race Immortal Guides 45	Posted - 2014.09.27 23:03:00 - [38] - Quote I would be happy if they did something ******* anything to balance scouts. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1005	Posted - 2014.09.28 01:09:00 - [39] - Quote Extra logi skills i.e Gal Logi Increased scan presicion on scanners. +3 per level maybe? Cal Logi +1 to deployable Hives per level Min Logi Some bonus to Rep tools Am Logi +1 to Deployable links per level Pokemon master! Death to all Swarm scrubs CCP please buff AScR and normal AR :(
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3153	Posted - 2014.09.28 03:38:00 - [40] - Quote Strafing needs to be fixed Equipment spam once and for all Proximity mines and Active scanners suck supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1372	Posted - 2014.09.28 06:31:00 - [41] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: 5. Fixing the Ambush Spawn System (Uplinks currently nullify the "Smart" Deploy system. Not sure if this is a bug or not but it is a well-known issue which makes Ambush fast and aggravating as Idk No they don't. You hit triangle for smart deploy and the map camera focuses on an uplink, and the circle appears around that uplink as if you were spawning on it, but smart deploy puts you wherever it's going to put you. I've watched this a hundred times. It looks like I'm going to spawn on the link, but when I load screen, I'm nowhere near the link. Which is good, because I chose smart deploy because the uplink was crawling with red dots. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Lady MDK Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 130	Posted - 2014.09.28 06:48:00 - [42] - Quote @cpm1 Ccp stated no client updates at least in the medium to long term... How far into this term are we? We have now endured over a years worth of numbers changes with little actual new content. I don't call returning bpo suits at monaclegate prices new content. Nor would I call returning vehicles that were broken new. Please encourage ccp to prioritise completion of missing weapons and vehicles, even if the assets are finally intended for legion, and use them in dust. Also what new game modes are being considered when updates are possible? Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following. I don't care so neither should you :)
Lady MDK Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 130	Posted - 2014.09.28 06:53:00 - [43] - Quote I know there are plenty of things that need fixing right now (looks at smart deploy). Is an everyman/every squad for itself mode possible? Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following. I don't care so neither should you :)
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2294	Posted - 2014.09.28 07:01:00 - [44] - Quote Lady MDK wrote: @cpm1...Please encourage ccp to prioritise completion of missing weapons and vehicles, even if the assets are finally intended for legion, and use them in dust. +1000 I'm hoping, but not optimistic, that CCP Rouge will announce this at EVE Vegas. It would go a long ways to help make up for the Rouge wedding. It would help to get them balanced for Legion and it would help add some much-needed content to DUST. Best PvE idea ever!
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 609	Posted - 2014.09.28 16:19:00 - [45] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: 6. Scout bonuses changed to module efface based on level of the module and Scout level. For example: A GK.0 scout with proto modules should get a 10% bonus to their complex dampener, PLUS whatever the meta level of it is. Bring in some meaning to the thing. This would equate to about 40% dampening, what it currently is, but it would make scouts not run just brick-tanks, unless you want a more mobile suit than the Assault, which is okay. However, the inherent bonuses of the scout make it very powerful. Blackstar on Suit EWAR ... three questions: 1) From whose ass was this pulled? 2) What qualifications did said ass possess on the subject of Scouts? 3) Why pull from ass when a knowledgeable resource is at your fingertips? You and Blackstar should run this plan by the Barbershop. We'd be glad to help you flesh out the good and punch holes in the bad (there's alot of bad). At the very least, I'd encourage you to thoroughly explore this plan's implications with subject matter experts before including it on a list of "must-haves". To present this haphazard plan as a "must-have" without consulting those it'd affect most demonstrates negligence at best and belligerent disregard at worst. #6 detracts from this thread's credibility. We can talk about this right now in this thread then broski. Why don't you like number six? CEO of GODS AMONG MEN/ Code name: Kronos Friendships are forged by war, enemies by peace Stars Wars Fan4ever, BFront3
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5316	Posted - 2014.09.28 18:20:00 - [46] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: 6. Scout bonuses changed to module efface based on level of the module and Scout level. For example: A GK.0 scout with proto modules should get a 10% bonus to their complex dampener, PLUS whatever the meta level of it is. Bring in some meaning to the thing. This would equate to about 40% dampening, what it currently is, but it would make scouts not run just brick-tanks, unless you want a more mobile suit than the Assault, which is okay. However, the inherent bonuses of the scout make it very powerful. Blackstar on Suit EWAR ... three questions: 1) From whose ass was this pulled? 2) What qualifications did said ass possess on the subject of Scouts? 3) Why pull from ass when a knowledgeable resource is at your fingertips? You and Blackstar should run this plan by the Barbershop. We'd be glad to help you flesh out the good and punch holes in the bad (there's alot of bad). At the very least, I'd encourage you to thoroughly explore this plan's implications with subject matter experts before including it on a list of "must-haves". To present this haphazard plan as a "must-have" without consulting those it'd affect most demonstrates negligence at best and belligerent disregard at worst. #6 detracts from this thread's credibility. We can talk about this right now in this thread then broski. Why don't you like number six? Problem 1: Question of Necessity Prior to Charlie, it was widely accepted that an hp-tanked GA or CA Scout made for a better frontal assault unit than an actual Assault unit. Since Charlie, the number of Assault frames in play has increased, and instances of Assault Lite have been in decline. While HP-tanked Scouts still exist, they are no longer out-assaulting their Assault counterparts. To the best of our knowledge, the Assault Lite problem was solved by Hotfix Charlie. Problem 2: EWAR Normalization Much like he has done with sidearms and rifles, Rattati sought to normalize Scout EWAR capabilities in Charlie. Each Scout can now function competitively in various EWAR capacities. For instance, all Scouts are now able to beat scans if they commit sufficient low slots to dampeners; this was not the case prior to Charlie, and it would not be the case if each Scout were assigned an efficacy bonus. Problem 4: The "Plan" Itself Blackstar's plan would reduce Scouts to useless and render Assault frames omnipotent. I cannot find a single sound point or redeeming quality in the plan; it is fundamentally unsound and is beyond salvage. In a word, it is mouth-breather-grade garbage. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 611	Posted - 2014.09.28 18:32:00 - [47] - Quote So at this point, do you believe Scouts are fine in the game? CEO of GODS AMONG MEN/ Code name: Kronos Friendships are forged by war, enemies by peace Stars Wars Fan4ever, BFront3
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5318	Posted - 2014.09.28 20:01:00 - [48] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: So at this point, do you believe Scouts are fine in the game? I believe we are closer than ever to dropsuit balance. That said, I suspect that room for improvement exists in particular instances of both the Scout and the Logi. For instance: I suspect that Shotgun Scouts are outperforming other configurations, especially at lower levels. I suspect that heavily brick-tanked GA and AM Scouts may have too much working in their favor. I suspect that STD Scouts are able to out-logi STD AM and CA Logis (thank you, John Demonsbane). I trust that Rattati and Logibro closely monitor performance statistics for outliers. When they (or CPM) bring a problem to our attention, I believe we should strive to solve the problem in a way which minimizes collateral damage to non-offenders. If our ultimate goal is dropsuit balance, than we should seek to avoid sweeping, debilitating changes like those proposed here by Blackstar. To cripple an entire class on account of a single instance of imbalance would constitute a clearly net loss in progress. We do not treat a brain tumor by cutting off the head. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2919	Posted - 2014.09.28 21:29:00 - [49] - Quote Lady MDK wrote: @cpm1 Ccp stated no client updates at least in the medium to long term... How far into this term are we? We have now endured over a years worth of numbers changes with little actual new content. That is more of a budgeting decision than a development one, as such it is a bit beyond the sphere of even the CPM NDA broadly speaking. What I can tell you is the (perhaps obvious) fundamental business baseline, which is that more revenue from a project increases the frequency and likelihood of corporate reinvestment in said project (unless you are EA, but let's not talk about EA). Quote: I don't call returning bpo suits at monaclegate prices new content. Nor would I call returning vehicles that were broken new. The prices are the same as they were when the suits and mods were removed, indeed they are the same prices as they have been throughout most of Dusts history (I know, I own most of that stuff). They are also hardly worthy a "monaclegate" comparison, not a single one of them is $75USD nor are the BPOs just reintroduced purely cosmetic items as the monocle was. Now if you want to make the contention that they are priced too highly, do feel free, in fact put together a thread on it and post that in this sub-forum, but let us not be hyperbolic about it that serves no constructive purpose. Quote: Please encourage ccp to prioritise completion of missing weapons and vehicles, even if the assets are finally intended for legion, and use them in dust. Also what new game modes are being considered when updates are possible? Already on it in both instances. Return of prior content and addition of absent content such as racial weapon types LP items, and hopefully even map sockets are all things I personally and the CPM broadly have been pushing for. Granted there are development constraints to consider (for that aspect see the first part of my reply) but we (the CPM) have made our advocacy clear on this subject and we have not simply subsided into silence after the first time we raised the prospect either. As to game modes both a 'capture the flag' style mode and a 'mobile objective' style mode have been talked about by the CPM, once more if/when on these is subject to resources which is subject to incoming revenue (business being business even in the gaming industry) but neither the Dust team nor the CPM are blind to how valuable new play content would be or how much the community desires it. I believe I can say with relative confidence that if the resources for such are made present then these items will sit near the top of the list (right along with engine optimization and fixing major bugs) as things to get done post haste. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Commander Noctus Gallente Loyalist 78	Posted - 2014.09.28 22:30:00 - [50] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: So at this point, do you believe Scouts are fine in the game? I believe we are closer than ever to dropsuit balance. That said, I suspect that room for improvement exists in specific instances of both the Scout and the Logi. For instance: I suspect that Shotgun Scouts are outperforming other builds (especially at lower levels). I suspect that heavily brick-tanked GA and AM Scouts may have too much working in their favor. I suspect that STD Scouts are able to out-logi STD AM and CA Logis (thank you, John Demonsbane). I trust that Rattati and Logibro closely monitor performance statistics for outliers. When they (or CPM) bring a problem to our attention, I believe we should strive to solve the problem in a way which minimizes collateral damage to non-offenders. If our ultimate goal is dropsuit balance, we should seek to avoid sweeping, debilitating changes like those proposed here by Blackstar. To cripple an entire class would constitute a significant loss in progress toward our goal, and to do so on account of an isolated instance of imbalance -- rather than addressing that instance alone -- would be nothing short of stupid. We do not treat a brain tumor by cutting off the head. Ok, the latter half of your argument actually convinced me. Personally still have a little issue with fast moving, high ehp scouts with a tiny hit-box but now I see that Blackstar's changes are indeed a bit much. Would you suggest buffing the other suits more and not touch scouts at all? Experience on the battlefield both observing and playing as a 'logi scout', scouts do a much better job as a logi, with such high mobility, regeneration, and the ability to carry essential medic gear at least (rep + needle). Also, as I alluded to before, scouts can also achieve slightly better slaying powers than Assaults. What, then, is your (a seasoned and well-informed scout I believe) solution to this?

Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2295	Posted - 2014.09.28 22:41:00 - [51] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Lady MDK wrote: @cpm1 Ccp stated no client updates at least in the medium to long term... How far into this term are we? We have now endured over a years worth of numbers changes with little actual new content. That is more of a budgeting decision than a development one, as such it is a bit beyond the sphere of even the CPM NDA broadly speaking. What I can tell you is the (perhaps obvious) fundamental business baseline, which is that more revenue from a project increases the frequency and likelihood of corporate reinvestment in said project... There is a strong business case for making these available in DUST. The assets will need to be produced for Legion anyways. Allowing DUST players to help balance them ahead of time is incredibly valuable to having a smooth launch and getting strong positive reviews which will have a major impact on CCP's bottom line in the years ahead. It will likely increase player retention significantly of the existing DUST mercs, and could possibly entice those who left to return. This should result in income via booster sales (and possibly from AUR variants as well). Might it be possible to run a special event to help fund this development effort? Perhaps we could buy some special whatever (that would carry over to Legion) for a reasonable price. If we buy x number then CCP will commit to releasing the missing vehicles, turrets and heavy weapons. Just an idea. Please keep on them about this regularly. Keep up the good work o7. Best PvE idea ever!
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2922	Posted - 2014.09.28 23:05:00 - [52] - Quote Commander Noctus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: So at this point, do you believe Scouts are fine in the game? I believe we are closer than ever to dropsuit balance. That said, I suspect that room for improvement exists in specific instances of both the Scout and the Logi. For instance: I suspect that Shotgun Scouts are outperforming other builds (especially at lower levels). I suspect that heavily brick-tanked GA and AM Scouts may have too much working in their favor. I suspect that STD Scouts are able to out-logi STD AM and CA Logis (thank you, John Demonsbane). I trust that Rattati and Logibro closely monitor performance statistics for outliers. When they (or CPM) bring a problem to our attention, I believe we should strive to solve the problem in a way which minimizes collateral damage to non-offenders. If our ultimate goal is dropsuit balance, we should seek to avoid sweeping, debilitating changes like those proposed here by Blackstar. To cripple an entire class would constitute a significant loss in progress toward our goal, and to do so on account of an isolated instance of imbalance -- rather than addressing that instance alone -- would be nothing short of stupid. We do not treat a brain tumor by cutting off the head. Ok, the latter half of your argument actually convinced me. Personally still have a little issue with fast moving, high ehp scouts with a tiny hit-box but now I see that Blackstar's changes are indeed a bit much. Would you suggest buffing the other suits more and not touch scouts at all? Experience on the battlefield both observing and playing as a 'logi scout', scouts do a much better job as a logi, with such high mobility, regeneration, and the ability to carry essential medic gear at least (rep + needle). Also, as I alluded to before, scouts can also achieve slightly better slaying powers than Assaults. What, then, is your (a seasoned and well-informed scout I believe) solution to this? I am no where near the scout that Adipem Nothi is but I do have proto minja etc. and while it does not address all of your question, nor should it stand as a substituent to an answer from Adipem Nothi, I can readily say that part of the solution to the problem you outline is giving the logistics role some love/buffs. I am currently working on that very thing with heavy input from the community - the emphasis of which is to make the support role more specialized and unique while avoiding any meaningful risk of 'killer bees'. Again this answer should not stifle the discussion present here, but I would say that best method may be to allow the logistics buff to roll out and then fine tune scouts, assaults, (and maybe logi) as needed once we see where things stand. (also the commando may need a pass as well, looking into that). 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2922	Posted - 2014.09.28 23:11:00 - [53] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Lady MDK wrote: @cpm1 Ccp stated no client updates at least in the medium to long term... How far into this term are we? We have now endured over a years worth of numbers changes with little actual new content. That is more of a budgeting decision than a development one, as such it is a bit beyond the sphere of even the CPM NDA broadly speaking. What I can tell you is the (perhaps obvious) fundamental business baseline, which is that more revenue from a project increases the frequency and likelihood of corporate reinvestment in said project... There is a strong business case for making these available in DUST. The assets will need to be produced for Legion anyways. Allowing DUST players to help balance them ahead of time is incredibly valuable to having a smooth launch and getting strong positive reviews which will have a major impact on CCP's bottom line in the years ahead. It will likely increase player retention significantly of the existing DUST mercs, and could possibly entice those who left to return. This should result in income via booster sales (and possibly from AUR variants as well). Might it be possible to run a special event to help fund this development effort? Perhaps we could buy some special whatever (that would carry over to Legion) for a reasonable price. If we buy x number then CCP will commit to releasing the missing vehicles, turrets and heavy weapons. Just an idea. Please keep on them about this regularly. Keep up the good work o7. I like the cut of your jib sir While these are not my calls to make (more of a upper management above the dev team thing as I understand it) I certainly have had thoughts along the same lines and have been communicating such to CCP (nor am I alone among the CPM in doing so). However the more community feedback and support that is present (such as your post above) for these sorts of ideas the more traction we have for making this case. Also the more AUR/boosters/BPOs et al that are already being purchased the less difficult of a case it is to make from the get go. So in a sense your second concept of offering ways to buy special items to gain new content has a method in place already (admittedly it is a workaround and as such not as idea as what you propose). Keep it up with posting, and anyone reading this who agrees with/would participate in any of this sort of behavior/purchase please speak up. What do you want? What would motivate you? How could that be delivered? Your CPM is listening, give me more to bring to CCP Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5327	Posted - 2014.09.29 03:23:00 - [54] - Quote Commander Noctus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: So at this point, do you believe Scouts are fine in the game? I believe we are closer than ever to dropsuit balance. That said, I suspect that room for improvement exists in specific instances of both the Scout and the Logi. For instance: I suspect that Shotgun Scouts are outperforming other builds (especially at lower levels). I suspect that heavily brick-tanked GA and AM Scouts may have too much working in their favor. I suspect that STD Scouts are able to out-logi STD AM and CA Logis (thank you, John Demonsbane). I trust that Rattati and Logibro closely monitor performance statistics for outliers. When they (or CPM) bring a problem to our attention, I believe we should strive to solve the problem in a way which minimizes collateral damage to non-offenders. If our ultimate goal is dropsuit balance, we should seek to avoid sweeping, debilitating changes like those proposed here by Blackstar. To cripple an entire class would constitute a significant loss in progress toward our goal, and to do so on account of an isolated instance of imbalance -- rather than addressing that instance alone -- would be nothing short of stupid. We do not treat a brain tumor by cutting off the head. Ok, the latter half of your argument actually convinced me. Personally still have a little issue with fast moving, high ehp scouts with a tiny hit-box but now I see that Blackstar's changes are indeed a bit much. Would you suggest buffing the other suits more and not touch scouts at all? Experience on the battlefield both observing and playing as a 'logi scout', scouts do a much better job as a logi, with such high mobility, regeneration, and the ability to carry essential medic gear at least (rep + needle). Also, as I alluded to before, scouts can also achieve slightly better slaying powers than Assaults. What, then, is your (a seasoned and well-informed scout I believe) solution to this? Underperformance of the Logistics class should be addressed as an altogether separate issue. There are a number of solid ideas being circulated, and on this point we'd do well to defer to Cross and the Logi Community at large. As far as Scouts are concerned, I see no option other than to call upon Rattati's statistical prowess. We must first identify the "problem children" in the Scoutly ranks before an appropriate fix can be fashioned. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 616	Posted - 2014.09.29 10:42:00 - [55] - Quote You've convinced me with your arguments good merc. Changing OP, 07. @Cross- The new game mode changes sound very heavenly, I believe the Community at large would VERY much appreciate that, especially with how stale the current modes and maps are. For example: The tower map that people always fly dropships to and camp on that ledge is infuriating, and you lose more isk in Dropships taking them off the ledge than winning... Keep the feedback and Ideas rolling guys. I'll be able to discuss possible Logi changes when I get home from school CEO of GODS AMONG MEN/ Code name: Kronos Friendships are forged by war, enemies by peace Stars Wars Fan4ever, BFront3
Commander Noctus Gallente Loyalist 79	Posted - 2014.09.29 16:54:00 - [56] - Quote Quote: I am no where near the scout that Adipem Nothi is but I do have proto minja etc. and while it does not address all of your question, nor should it stand as a substituent to an answer from Adipem Nothi, I can readily say that part of the solution to the problem you outline is giving the logistics role some love/buffs. I am currently working on that very thing with heavy input from the community - the emphasis of which is to make the support role more specialized and unique while avoiding any meaningful risk of 'killer bees'. Again this answer should not stifle the discussion present here, but I would say that best method may be to allow the logistics buff to roll out and then fine tune scouts, assaults, (and maybe logi) as needed once we see where things stand. (also the commando may need a pass as well, looking into that). 0.02 ISK Cross That's pretty much what I was thinking would be a sound path to take, though I don't think the commando's need much of anything. 50+ ehp maybe but there's really nothing we can give them that won't bleed into other classes. Quote: Underperformance of the Logistics class should be addressed as an altogether separate issue. There are a number of solid ideas being circulated, and on this point we'd do well to defer to Cross and the Logi Community at large. As far as Scouts are concerned, I see no option other than to call upon Rattati's statistical prowess. Identifying the "problem children" in the Scoutly ranks would be solid first step. Once we know what to fix, the how to fix will be easy. Awesome, then we're on the same page regarding this topic. Someone should bring this scout matter up again to Rattati then so he can look at numbers, while we continue brainstorming ideas for Logis, who I really REALLY believe should be the topic of Echo now. Though that could be a different thread altogether.
Lady MDK Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 132	Posted - 2014.09.29 17:41:00 - [57] - Quote Thanks for the comments Cross, Its good to know somethings are still happening at CCP Shanghai. with the silence on the Legion forum and suitably vague info on here until we can actually get some form of real update happening its sometimes hard to stay positive. I also understand that none of the prices here were anything like the 75 dolars however in my book anything more than a few quid is massively over the top for digital content in my book except maybe boosters which I buy from time to time but only because its like my subscription to EVE I spend a tenner and get the equivalent of a months training extra on top of what i normally get.. in my head it makes sense. i.e. I have bought several ship skins for Elite Dangerous priced at -ú2 without blinking an eye. This is a small transaction. Unfortunately to me CCPs idea of a small transaction seems over the top. Anyway enough of the negative stuff :) I am glad to hear that new game modes are being considered. I am a interested to see how capture the flag is adapted to fit in with the EVE lore and a little worried that they don't try but just implement a bog standard capture the flag mode. Is an Everyman/Everysquad for him/Itself mode possible? if so i have started a thread that I am posting some ideas of my own in when they come to me (Its here sunk without trace lol https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176515&find=unread). Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following. I don't care so neither should you :)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2934	Posted - 2014.09.29 17:47:00 - [58] - Quote @Thread (and most recently Adipem Nothi, 501st Headstrong, and Commander Noctus). I love seeing constructive debate and discussion going on and thank everyone who has chosen to participate in such. Re: maps and content, we'll keep at it, finding ways to add more content and polish what is already present is a win-win for all involved and I do not believe I am overstating the case to say that CCP Rattati knows and agrees with this. To be blunt I have been more impressed than I ever expected to be by the dedication and passion (I know both often overused buzz words in gaming, but seriously they fit) CCP Rattati has displays towards Dust. Re: Balance passes, that first step of logi polish is moving forward and I am crossing my fingers that maybe the stars will align such that I have something to present to the community for review before very much longer. Once that is in the pipe a deeper look at the comparative metrics for infantry roles would be a solid next step and I believe that is exactly what is intended going forward. @Thread again, keep the feedback coming everyone Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16894	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:26:00 - [59] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: [quote=Stefan Stahl]Here's my hitlist: - Sorting out rifle fitting requirements (they are all equally useful now, but have vastly different fitting reqs) Yeah, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either. A basic CR and a basic RR (used for familiarity purposes, I am skilled into both) should be equally good at what they do, right? They both have the same ISK cost. But, for some reason, the CPU-PG requirements for the basic RR are higher than the CR. I use both and see the positives/negatives of each. I'm just not sure why their fitting requirements are different Do you want normalize all weapon fitting requirements? Weapon fitting requirements are based on a few things. 1. Suits that typically fit them; in other words secret racial affinity trait. 2. Expected classes to have them though this is the most minor now. 3. Effect on damage output and generally how effective they are in a single life span which is the most 'normalizing' factor of the three. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 623	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:46:00 - [60] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: [quote=Stefan Stahl]Here's my hitlist: - Sorting out rifle fitting requirements (they are all equally useful now, but have vastly different fitting reqs) Yeah, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either. A basic CR and a basic RR (used for familiarity purposes, I am skilled into both) should be equally good at what they do, right? They both have the same ISK cost. But, for some reason, the CPU-PG requirements for the basic RR are higher than the CR. I use both and see the positives/negatives of each. I'm just not sure why their fitting requirements are different Do you want normalize all weapon fitting requirements? Weapon fitting requirements are based on a few things. 1. Suits that typically fit them; in other words secret racial affinity trait. 2. Expected classes to have them though this is the most minor now. 3. Effect on damage output and generally how effective they are in a single life span which is the most 'normalizing' factor of the three. Well I think I can see where he's coming from. The CR takes way less CPU and PG at pro than the AR, leading people to use the CR over the AR if in a pinch on a Gal Suit. Not sure if this should be rectified however CEO of GODS AMONG MEN/ Code name: Kronos Friendships are forged by war, enemies by peace Stars Wars Fan4ever, BFront3



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