DUST Search - Is it too Early to start Discussing Hotfix Echo?

Commander Noctus wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

501st Headstrong wrote:

So at this point, do you believe Scouts are fine in the game?

I believe we are closer than ever to dropsuit balance. That said, I suspect that room for improvement exists in specific instances of both the Scout and the Logi. For instance:

I suspect that Shotgun Scouts are outperforming other builds (especially at lower levels).
I suspect that heavily brick-tanked GA and AM Scouts may have too much working in their favor.
I suspect that STD Scouts are able to out-logi STD AM and CA Logis (thank you, John Demonsbane).

I trust that Rattati and Logibro closely monitor performance statistics for outliers. When they (or CPM) bring a problem to our attention, I believe we should strive to solve the problem in a way which minimizes collateral damage to non-offenders.

If our ultimate goal is dropsuit balance, we should seek to avoid sweeping, debilitating changes like those proposed here by Blackstar. To cripple an entire class would constitute a significant loss in progress toward our goal, and to do so on account of an isolated instance of imbalance -- rather than addressing that instance alone -- would be nothing short of stupid.

We do not treat a brain tumor by cutting off the head.

Ok, the latter half of your argument actually convinced me. Personally still have a little issue with fast moving, high ehp scouts with a tiny hit-box but now I see that Blackstar's changes are indeed a bit much.

Would you suggest buffing the other suits more and not touch scouts at all? Experience on the battlefield both observing and playing as a 'logi scout', scouts do a much better job as a logi, with such high mobility, regeneration, and the ability to carry essential medic gear at least (rep + needle). Also, as I alluded to before, scouts can also achieve slightly better slaying powers than Assaults. What, then, is your (a seasoned and well-informed scout I believe) solution to this?


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Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5207	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:24:00 - [1] - Quote Scotty still puts me into matches which are either very close to ending (which is annoying) or already ended (which leaves me stuck in loading screen). Would be thrilled to see this issue resolved. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5295	Posted - 2014.09.27 21:10:00 - [2] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: 6. Scout bonuses changed to module efface based on level of the module and Scout level. For example: A GK.0 scout with proto modules should get a 10% bonus to their complex dampener, PLUS whatever the meta level of it is. Bring in some meaning to the thing. This would equate to about 40% dampening, what it currently is, but it would make scouts not run just brick-tanks, unless you want a more mobile suit than the Assault, which is okay. However, the inherent bonuses of the scout make it very powerful. Blackstar on Suit EWAR Three questions: 1) From whose ass was this pulled? 2) What qualifications does said ass possess on the subject of Scouts? 3) Why pull from ass when a dedicated and knowledgeable resource is at your fingertips? You and Blackstar should run this plan by the Barbershop. We'd be glad to help you flesh out the good and punch holes in the bad (there's alot of bad). Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5316	Posted - 2014.09.28 18:20:00 - [3] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: 6. Scout bonuses changed to module efface based on level of the module and Scout level. For example: A GK.0 scout with proto modules should get a 10% bonus to their complex dampener, PLUS whatever the meta level of it is. Bring in some meaning to the thing. This would equate to about 40% dampening, what it currently is, but it would make scouts not run just brick-tanks, unless you want a more mobile suit than the Assault, which is okay. However, the inherent bonuses of the scout make it very powerful. Blackstar on Suit EWAR ... three questions: 1) From whose ass was this pulled? 2) What qualifications did said ass possess on the subject of Scouts? 3) Why pull from ass when a knowledgeable resource is at your fingertips? You and Blackstar should run this plan by the Barbershop. We'd be glad to help you flesh out the good and punch holes in the bad (there's alot of bad). At the very least, I'd encourage you to thoroughly explore this plan's implications with subject matter experts before including it on a list of "must-haves". To present this haphazard plan as a "must-have" without consulting those it'd affect most demonstrates negligence at best and belligerent disregard at worst. #6 detracts from this thread's credibility. We can talk about this right now in this thread then broski. Why don't you like number six? Problem 1: Question of Necessity Prior to Charlie, it was widely accepted that an hp-tanked GA or CA Scout made for a better frontal assault unit than an actual Assault unit. Since Charlie, the number of Assault frames in play has increased, and instances of Assault Lite have been in decline. While HP-tanked Scouts still exist, they are no longer out-assaulting their Assault counterparts. To the best of our knowledge, the Assault Lite problem was solved by Hotfix Charlie. Problem 2: EWAR Normalization Much like he has done with sidearms and rifles, Rattati sought to normalize Scout EWAR capabilities in Charlie. Each Scout can now function competitively in various EWAR capacities. For instance, all Scouts are now able to beat scans if they commit sufficient low slots to dampeners; this was not the case prior to Charlie, and it would not be the case if each Scout were assigned an efficacy bonus. Problem 4: The "Plan" Itself Blackstar's plan would reduce Scouts to useless and render Assault frames omnipotent. I cannot find a single sound point or redeeming quality in the plan; it is fundamentally unsound and is beyond salvage. In a word, it is mouth-breather-grade garbage. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5318	Posted - 2014.09.28 20:01:00 - [4] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: So at this point, do you believe Scouts are fine in the game? I believe we are closer than ever to dropsuit balance. That said, I suspect that room for improvement exists in particular instances of both the Scout and the Logi. For instance: I suspect that Shotgun Scouts are outperforming other configurations, especially at lower levels. I suspect that heavily brick-tanked GA and AM Scouts may have too much working in their favor. I suspect that STD Scouts are able to out-logi STD AM and CA Logis (thank you, John Demonsbane). I trust that Rattati and Logibro closely monitor performance statistics for outliers. When they (or CPM) bring a problem to our attention, I believe we should strive to solve the problem in a way which minimizes collateral damage to non-offenders. If our ultimate goal is dropsuit balance, than we should seek to avoid sweeping, debilitating changes like those proposed here by Blackstar. To cripple an entire class on account of a single instance of imbalance would constitute a clearly net loss in progress. We do not treat a brain tumor by cutting off the head. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5327	Posted - 2014.09.29 03:23:00 - [5] - Quote Commander Noctus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: So at this point, do you believe Scouts are fine in the game? I believe we are closer than ever to dropsuit balance. That said, I suspect that room for improvement exists in specific instances of both the Scout and the Logi. For instance: I suspect that Shotgun Scouts are outperforming other builds (especially at lower levels). I suspect that heavily brick-tanked GA and AM Scouts may have too much working in their favor. I suspect that STD Scouts are able to out-logi STD AM and CA Logis (thank you, John Demonsbane). I trust that Rattati and Logibro closely monitor performance statistics for outliers. When they (or CPM) bring a problem to our attention, I believe we should strive to solve the problem in a way which minimizes collateral damage to non-offenders. If our ultimate goal is dropsuit balance, we should seek to avoid sweeping, debilitating changes like those proposed here by Blackstar. To cripple an entire class would constitute a significant loss in progress toward our goal, and to do so on account of an isolated instance of imbalance -- rather than addressing that instance alone -- would be nothing short of stupid. We do not treat a brain tumor by cutting off the head. Ok, the latter half of your argument actually convinced me. Personally still have a little issue with fast moving, high ehp scouts with a tiny hit-box but now I see that Blackstar's changes are indeed a bit much. Would you suggest buffing the other suits more and not touch scouts at all? Experience on the battlefield both observing and playing as a 'logi scout', scouts do a much better job as a logi, with such high mobility, regeneration, and the ability to carry essential medic gear at least (rep + needle). Also, as I alluded to before, scouts can also achieve slightly better slaying powers than Assaults. What, then, is your (a seasoned and well-informed scout I believe) solution to this? Underperformance of the Logistics class should be addressed as an altogether separate issue. There are a number of solid ideas being circulated, and on this point we'd do well to defer to Cross and the Logi Community at large. As far as Scouts are concerned, I see no option other than to call upon Rattati's statistical prowess. We must first identify the "problem children" in the Scoutly ranks before an appropriate fix can be fashioned. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5343	Posted - 2014.09.29 21:45:00 - [6] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Posed Question: What buffs would you make to Logi without them inadvertently getting Slaying Capacity? +1 Equipment for STD AM Logi +1 Equipment for STD CA Logi +1 High Slot for STD GA Logi +1 Low Slot for STD MN Logi + PG / CPU for all STD Logi ADV Logis - Defer to Logi Community PRO Logis - Defer to Logi Community Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley