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Jaselyn Cabellos
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
105
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Posted - 2014.09.28 04:16:00 -
[61] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Jaselyn Cabellos wrote:
Yes but see the Dropsuit can be used for anything else. There is no designated AV suit. So that really doesn't count as part of AV. I've seen Proto Swarms on Basic suits.
The same could be said about vehicles.
The Assault Dropship is mainly used for Assault and Transport. The same cannot be said for the Dropship as there are MANY more uses for a Dropsuit.
Flying Mouse and Keyboard since:
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Atiim
12566
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Posted - 2014.09.28 04:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
Jaselyn Cabellos wrote:Atiim wrote:Jaselyn Cabellos wrote:
Yes but see the Dropsuit can be used for anything else. There is no designated AV suit. So that really doesn't count as part of AV. I've seen Proto Swarms on Basic suits.
The same could be said about vehicles. The Assault Dropship is mainly used for Assault and Transport. The same cannot be said for the Dropship as there are MANY more uses for a Dropsuit.
Doesn't change the fact that Small Turrets, and their secondary skills can be used with any vehicle in DUST 514, along with their Core Skills.
The only thing Dropsuits can do that Dropships cannot is repair, resupply, and hack objectives.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Jaselyn Cabellos
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
105
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Posted - 2014.09.28 04:19:00 -
[63] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Jaselyn Cabellos wrote:Also, the lv3 Swarm does well enough. Checking I looked at almost all my accounts and all odf them have at least lv3 Swarms. Now that hardly takes anything. You don't have to be devoted in order to buy an Advanced swarm and effortlessly drop an ADS where the Pilot has to be devoted to throwing piles of SP down. Again, how are you going to use your Swarm Launcher without a Dropsuit? And most importantly, how are you going to get 3 hits off when each of your locks take 1.2s? Now that I think of it, how are you even investing into Swarm Launchers when you don't have Weaponry II and Light Weaponry IV?
If you are to calculate my theory then you will prove my point even more. Even with all the extra stuff that you claimed ADS is still more SP. And, there are Basic/Militia suits provided to you as of beginning the game. You are welcome to calculate it as I am to lazy but you will +1 my point.
Flying Mouse and Keyboard since:
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Atiim
12566
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Posted - 2014.09.28 04:20:00 -
[64] - Quote
Jaselyn Cabellos wrote:
If you are to calculate my theory then you will prove my point even more. Even with all the extra stuff that you claimed ADS is still more SP. And, there are Basic/Militia suits provided to you as of beginning the game. You are welcome to calculate it as I am to lazy but you will +1 my point.
You want me to calculate your ADS rig vs my AV rig in terms of SP investment?
Be bright back. 
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Jaselyn Cabellos
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
105
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Posted - 2014.09.28 04:20:00 -
[65] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Jaselyn Cabellos wrote:Atiim wrote:Jaselyn Cabellos wrote:
Yes but see the Dropsuit can be used for anything else. There is no designated AV suit. So that really doesn't count as part of AV. I've seen Proto Swarms on Basic suits.
The same could be said about vehicles. The Assault Dropship is mainly used for Assault and Transport. The same cannot be said for the Dropship as there are MANY more uses for a Dropsuit. Doesn't change the fact that Small Turrets, and their secondary skills can be used with any vehicle in DUST 514, along with their Core Skills. The only thing Dropsuits can do that Dropships cannot is repair other units and hack objectives.
Yes but in this case the Assault Dropship would be the equivalent of the Dropsuit not the turret. And if the Assault Dropship can be used for stuff other than Assault and Transport please do tell me.
Flying Mouse and Keyboard since:
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Juno Tristan
Inner.Hell
83
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Posted - 2014.09.28 04:23:00 -
[66] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:
Maybe if you didn't fit swarms on a Logi, you could like, use a sidearm or something?
{Cough} Commandos {Cough}{Cough}
That's a null point, as he's referring to the Swarm Launcher, not a Secondary Weapon.
Okay then, why should a Swarm launcher not be able to solo an ADS?
because its a fire and forget weapon (and therefore requires little skill in its current iteration) that cannot be evaded on most maps
Why should it be able to solo a tank?
because its an ambush weapon that rewards getting tank blindspots (as opposed to ADS being able to fly away), and since the tank is not being knocked around, can fire back at the swarm user |
Jaselyn Cabellos
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
105
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Posted - 2014.09.28 04:24:00 -
[67] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Jaselyn Cabellos wrote:
If you are to calculate my theory then you will prove my point even more. Even with all the extra stuff that you claimed ADS is still more SP. And, there are Basic/Militia suits provided to you as of beginning the game. You are welcome to calculate it as I am to lazy but you will +1 my point.
You want me to calculate your ADS rig vs my AV rig in terms of SP investment? Be bright back.
Keep in mind the Proto swarm is enabled to a basic suit while the Proto Turret is not enabled to a front gun on the Gorgon/Viper and Grimsnes/Myron
Flying Mouse and Keyboard since:
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S-PANZA
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
69
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Posted - 2014.09.28 04:34:00 -
[68] - Quote
Jaselyn Cabellos wrote:Also, the lv3 Swarm does well enough. Checking I looked at almost all my accounts and all of them have at least lv3 Swarms. Now that hardly takes anything. You don't have to be devoted in order to buy an Advanced swarm and effortlessly drop an ADS where the Pilot has to be devoted to throwing piles of SP down.
And you believe in the tooth fairy .
Credibility just went down the drain.
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Juno Tristan
Inner.Hell
83
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Posted - 2014.09.28 04:37:00 -
[69] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Jaselyn Cabellos wrote:Also, the lv3 Swarm does well enough. Checking I looked at almost all my accounts and all odf them have at least lv3 Swarms. Now that hardly takes anything. You don't have to be devoted in order to buy an Advanced swarm and effortlessly drop an ADS where the Pilot has to be devoted to throwing piles of SP down. Again, how are you going to use your Swarm Launcher without a Dropsuit? And most importantly, how are you going to get 3 hits off when each of your locks take 1.2s? Now that I think of it, how are you even investing into Swarm Launchers when you don't have Weaponry II and Light Weaponry IV?
Who's gonna benefit the most if both players decide to run an Ambush game?
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Atiim
12567
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Posted - 2014.09.28 04:59:00 -
[70] - Quote
Python w/Small Missile Launcher
- Vehicle Command III
- Assault Dropships V
- Caldari Assault Dropships V
- Vehicle Upgrades III
- Vehicle Shield Upgrades V
- Shield Fitting Optimization V
- Shield Regeneration V
- Vehicle Core Upgrades V
- Core Grid Management V
- Engine Core Calibration V
- Vehicle Electronics V
- Vehicle Engineering V
- Turret Operation I
- Small Turret Operation V
- Small Missile Launcher Operation V
- Small Missile Launcher Proficiency IV
- Small Missile Launcher Ammo Capacity V
- Small Missile Launcher Reload Systems V
- Small Missile Launcher Fitting Optimization V
Total: 18,605,440 SP
Commando w/Swarm Launcher
- Dropsuit Command III
- Minmatar Heavy Dropsuits III
- Minmatar Commando Dropsuits V
- Dropsuit Upgrades IV
- Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades V
- Dropsuit Shield Upgrades V
- Shield Extension V
- Shield Regulation V
- Dropsuit Armor Upgrades V
- Armor Repair Systems V
- Armor Plating V
- Dropsuit Core Upgrades V
- Dropsuit Electronics V
- Precision Enhancement V
- Profile Dampening V
- Range Amplification V
- Dropsuit Engineering V
- Nanocircuitry V
- Weaponry IV
- Explosives V
- Demolition V
- Handheld Weapon Upgrades V
- Light Weapon Operation V
- Swarm Launcher Operation V
- Swarm Launcher Proficiency V
- Swarm Launcher Reload Systems V
- Swarm Launcher Ammo Capacity V
- Swarm Launcher Fitting Optimization V
- Combat Rifle Operation V
- Combat Rifle Proficiency III
- Combat Rifle Ammo Capacity V
Total: 25,837,440 SP
---
Lucky for you, I need this thing called sleep. So while I won't be able to continue disproving your biased assertions any further at the moment, I'll be happy to continue refuting your nonsense in about 8hrs.
o7
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
3335
|
Posted - 2014.09.28 05:01:00 -
[71] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Python w/Small Missile Launcher
- Vehicle Command III
- Assault Dropships V
- Caldari Assault Dropships V
- Vehicle Upgrades III
- Vehicle Shield Upgrades V
- Shield Fitting Optimization V
- Shield Regeneration V
- Vehicle Core Upgrades V
- Core Grid Management V
- Engine Core Calibration V
- Vehicle Electronics V
- Vehicle Engineering V
- Turret Operation I
- Small Turret Operation V
- Small Missile Launcher Operation V
- Small Missile Launcher Proficiency IV
- Small Missile Launcher Ammo Capacity V
- Small Missile Launcher Reload Systems V
- Small Missile Launcher Fitting Optimization V
Total: 18,605,440 SP
Commando w/Swarm Launcher
- Dropsuit Command III
- Minmatar Heavy Dropsuits III
- Minmatar Commando Dropsuits V
- Dropsuit Upgrades IV
- Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades V
- Dropsuit Shield Upgrades V
- Shield Extension V
- Shield Regulation V
- Dropsuit Armor Upgrades V
- Armor Repair Systems V
- Armor Plating V
- Dropsuit Core Upgrades V
- Dropsuit Electronics V
- Precision Enhancement V
- Profile Dampening V
- Range Amplification V
- Dropsuit Engineering V
- Nanocircuitry V
- Weaponry IV
- Explosives V
- Demolition V
- Handheld Weapon Upgrades V
- Light Weapon Operation V
- Swarm Launcher Operation V
- Swarm Launcher Proficiency V
- Swarm Launcher Reload Systems V
- Swarm Launcher Ammo Capacity V
- Swarm Launcher Fitting Optimization V
- Combat Rifle Operation V
- Combat Rifle Proficiency III
- Combat Rifle Ammo Capacity V
Total: 25,837,440 SP
--- Lucky for you, I need this thing called sleep. So while I won't be able to continue disproving your biased assertions any further at the moment, I'll be happy to continue refuting your nonsense in about 8hrs. o7
You don't need half those skills....
Tanker/Logi/Assault
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
3335
|
Posted - 2014.09.28 05:07:00 -
[72] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:What is the KDR Average?
Logic wants me to assume it is 1.0, but this game... Logically, to me, average for the entire game would have to be just under 1.0. Because every kill counted counts as a death somewhere, plus suicides, which don't grant anyone a kill.
A 1 K/D is pretty awful, I can achieve a 4+ using a fricking assault suit.
Tanker/Logi/Assault
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Juno Tristan
Inner.Hell
83
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Posted - 2014.09.28 05:09:00 -
[73] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Python w/Small Missile Launcher
Total: 18,605,440 SP
Total: 25,837,440 SP
---
Lucky for you, I need this thing called sleep. So while I won't be able to continue disproving your biased assertions any further at the moment, I'll be happy to continue refuting your nonsense in about 8hrs.
o7
Rather than get antagonistic I'll just say, losing 1 ADS per match is not ISK positive so pilots can't run vehicles every match and every spawn.
Their investment brings them no benefits outside of the vehicle, your chosen AV fit has a lot of overlap with AI |
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3829
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 14:01:00 -
[74] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:What is the KDR Average?
Logic wants me to assume it is 1.0, but this game... Logically, to me, average for the entire game would have to be just under 1.0. Because every kill counted counts as a death somewhere, plus suicides, which don't grant anyone a kill. A 1 K/D is pretty awful, I can achieve a 4+ weekly K/D using a fricking assault suit.
Yes, but mathematics teaches us, for every kill you score, someone else is hence taking a death. So average KDR is about 1.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Vesta Opalus
Kang Lo Holding
40
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Posted - 2014.09.29 15:15:00 -
[75] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:One AV person, who's fitting (swarms) can only damage vehicles and nothing else, is incredibly specialized in killing vehicles. They should kill vehicles.
Why should one player in a dropship require multiple players to kill? One player equals one player.
If 1 ADS does not equal 1 AV, than 1 ADS is OP.
Actually 1 AV should be greater than one ADS :\
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Vesta Opalus
Kang Lo Holding
40
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Posted - 2014.09.29 15:43:00 -
[76] - Quote
Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote:Thurak1 wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:One AV person, who's fitting (swarms) can only damage vehicles and nothing else, is incredibly specialized in killing vehicles. They should kill vehicles.
Why should one player in a dropship require multiple players to kill? One player equals one player.
If 1 ADS does not equal 1 AV, than 1 ADS is OP. /aplause You forget that many players can just train up their AV and then spam it at will. We're dealing with the difference between a player who wants to play a role and power players that just go pull out whatever to get a kill. This game has been ruined by that. Force infantry to stick to the AV role in a match then we'll talk. I'll say again, the answer is to have greater contrast between offense and defense. If you equip for defense then you won't be so good at offense but will be able to take the hits. If you go offense then one AV equals one vehicle. It is wrong to make AV so powerful when one can simply skill it up as a FOTM, reequip at a depot or on respawn then go right back to being non-AV. In the meantime I am still trying to run a dropship.
Why would anyone choose to play a role all game that is completely ineffective at removing the threat it faces?
AV can't kill a properly driven vehicle, even after the newest hotfix, unless the vehicle driver is a complete moron or there are so many AV players opposing him that they kill him in one volley.
As long as AV is just an area denial tool instead of a killing vehicle tool, there will be no real deterrent on vehicles and no real reason to play AV.
I don't know anyone who trains up their AV to spam it at will.
What I have experienced is training into AV to help my poor blueberries not get farmed by invincible killing machines, and finding that that AV is completely ineffective.
So I start up a vehicle alt to counter vehicles with their only valid counter, more vehicles. After seeing how mindnumbingly easy it is to run a tank or dropship, I decide not to play that alt anymore because its so boring being invincible to almost everything the enemy can throw at you.
I go back to my main infantry character, after ignoring and evading vehicles constantly for a few weeks who are completely ruining the game for everyone who isnt in a vehicle, I grudgingly spec into a new kind of AV (forge guns, because swarms shouldnt be able to kill anything apparently) just so I can give my team a chance in hell of not getting farmed for the half minute during which I can run forge or swarms before some infantry come and slaughter me because I set off the "COME **** ME" sign of using AV.
Thats the real experience of using AV right there. Pilots who claim being a swarmer is some kind of easy mode kill farming fit are the biggest cunts in dust. Firing off a swarm is equivalent to setting off fireworks that spell out MURDER ME in the sky above you.
My swarm fits name is Suffering, or at least it was before I deleted it. The things are complete ****. Even now any competent pilot can get away from them unless 3+ people are firing them at you. |
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3829
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Posted - 2014.09.29 16:14:00 -
[77] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:One AV person, who's fitting (swarms) can only damage vehicles and nothing else, is incredibly specialized in killing vehicles. They should kill vehicles.
Why should one player in a dropship require multiple players to kill? One player equals one player.
If 1 ADS does not equal 1 AV, than 1 ADS is OP. Actually 1 AV should be greater than one ADS :\
I'd agree AV, a class designed specifically to kill v ehicles, should probably have a little bit of an advantage, but it needs to be a fight that either one can win. The big thing vehicles have on their side though, is the ability to leave an engagement. AV needs damage to compensate.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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