I shouldn't have to have 3 to 4 squad members firing at one scout to drop him. Running away and dodging I get, but these guys are coming toward the fire and surviving!

10/10

it's easier to do the figure-8 strafe with a controller. much harder to it, and the controller gets better interface mileage.

CCP removed most of the usefulness from KB/M. It's about as gimped as a game interface can get.

We also lost a lot of players and gained a few when CCP torched the interface

it's easier to do the figure-8 strafe with a controller. much harder to it, and the controller gets better interface mileage.

CCP removed most of the usefulness from KB/M. It's about as gimped as a game interface can get.

We also lost a lot of players and gained a few when CCP torched the interface

Oddly enough...


That's not a troll. It happens on occasion.

Usually it takes me to kill the scout since I can aim sadly. The cold hard truth is a lot of people in this game suck at aiming.

...Have you ever used kb/m? I agree that strafing is op, even if its not viable on kb(leftright no aa)
But please, no more nerfs to kb/m, its already quite gimped as it is. Try shotgunning with a mouse for once

:facepalm: there is no strafe speed advantage, if it is, it must be quite miniscule
You say it takes time to shift analog stick? It also take stime to alternate your fingers and apply pressure on a key

I have written on this many times and nothing has yet to be done it has no even been addressed as a problem by ccp ever.

I have no idea what this figure-8 console controller strafe is, but if it gives console controller players some kind of advantage over kb/m or move controller players i say it goes too!.

It's literally what it says it is. Strafing in a figure 8 pattern.

And it's not something you can just remove from the game.

This doesn't work anywhere near the manner in which i'm referring, but we all know you already know this. Escaping bad aim through movement at range makes sense. What i'm referring to is dodging 10 meters out in front of a heavy! Heavies in his optimal, with more armor and shields, and the right weapon. Scouts got a rifle of any type, and will have to reload to kill the heavy?! How does the scout win that? Without NK's or a shotgun it would be statistically impossible right? Oh wait, just strafe and the heavy will miss with 450 rounds?!?! Even you can admit this doesn't make sense.

:facepalm: there is no strafe speed advantage, if it is, it must be quite miniscule
You say it takes time to shift analog stick? It also take stime to alternate your fingers and apply pressure on a key

I have written on this many times and nothing has yet to be done it has no even been addressed as a problem by ccp ever.

I have written on this many times and nothing has yet to be done it has no even been addressed as a problem by ccp ever.

Nerf strafing and make this game even slower paced?

The keyboard DOES NOT strafe faster than the controller, go test it.

Adding inertia to strafing would make the game faster, since you couldn't use herky-jerky dancing to dodge fire at point blank range.

Time to kill would drop pretty hard and make your fit more important than your ability to make the controller do funky things.

After a total lack of analysis, in which I spent zero time exploring the difference in strafe speeds between keyboard and DS3, I determined that the inertia that does in fact exist in the game, does not exist.

I also believe that the milliseconds of difference between A and D and Full Left and Full Right on the DS3 is the sole reason I can't hit people.

And trust me, I can't hit ANYBODY, so like 95% of the people in this game are using cheater keyboards with super strafing, something that totally exists.

And the reason that 95% of people in this game use KB/M is because the Dust implementation of the mouse is superior to DS3 with aim assist.

In fact, all the top players use keyboard and mouse.

In addition, I know that strafing has been in shooters since before I was in diapers, but I don't like it. It makes me have to aim, and that's kinda like trying, and I don't like trying.

I don't want to try to aim, even when aim assist and bullet magnetism takes care of the hard part of aiming: the part where you aim.

I cry foul, FOUL I say at people who try to dodge the gaze of my rifle, I want my future shooter game with spaceships, cloaks, speed modules, and energy weapons to be more realistic, but I don't want to go through the trouble of playing ARMA.

Maybe they can't fix it in Dust, but when Legion comes out on the PC, hopefully they'll finally nerf the crap out of the KB/M.

This whole thread can be summarized as follows:

Adding inertia to strafing would make the game faster, since you couldn't use herky-jerky dancing to dodge fire at point blank range.

Time to kill would drop pretty hard and make your fit more important than your ability to make the controller do funky things.

So the last shred of speed tanking in this game would be totally gone. Speedtanking, that play-style that has been diminishing since the beta is already on its last legs, I've been trying to salvage the last remnants recently for fun.

You cant seriously want to push scouts and others to brick tank even more can you?!

Simply as I can put this, it makes no sense. Why do we allow kb/m players to use the lack of sensitivity as a crutch to dodge? Some of them literally close distance to one v one and strafe back and forth to avoid dmg. While this is a tactic, it's not a in-game mod to spec into. Meaning it's more of an exploitation of flawed game mechanics. I promise that no one can do this in real life!

We want the science fiction part to make sense in a real life sense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont see a great difference in movement or strafe speeds in the individual characters. The guys that do it gain a clear, non in-game, advantage over other players. They don't have to use proto gear when they can just dodge whatever you throw at them?! Aiming down sights I can understand, but once I realize he's strafing faster than I can aim I immediately switch to hipfire..... which he then still can't be hit??? I spend an unnecessary amount of time trying to kill a scout with an hmg or AR than necessary. 201 shield and 120 armor doesn't spell out Close quarter survivability to me?! Especially when your opponent has 3 times the armor and shield. Now shotguns, re's, and NK's I get, but rifles???

Basically these guys buy themselves enough time to unload and reload at ten meters away to kill heavies with a broken game mechanic that I think can be fixed. It's not a scout thing cuz they can do it in any fit. I've seen heavies strafing??! That's absurd! How do you strafe at that speed in heavy armor? They should be able to dodge to a degree, but not to such a degree that they simply dance in front of you til you run out of ammo??! Especially when one hipfires with an AR (the hipfire master weapon) in cqc.

This should be looked at and rectified. I shouldn't have to have 3 to 4 squad members firing at one scout to drop him. Running away and dodging I get, but these guys are coming toward the fire and surviving!

Can we take a look at how we can bring movement speeds to a balanced level, not for the characters in-game, but the actual different controlling methods? If I play console controller I shouldn't have broken mechanic advantages over kb/m or move controller players. I tell you from experience that they don't even try to take cover! They simply run up, strafe til you reload, and then shoot. Or shoot while strafing if they're really good at it?!?!? They avoid complete walls of lead from multiple players at times?!

You cant seriously want to push scouts and others to brick tank even more can you?!

If the heavy can't aim then he desrves to lose the fight. Strafing is a 100% valid tactic as long as it doesn't result in a loss of hit detection. You just suck at strafing and can't hit moving targets so you want to get it removed. If strafing no longer becomes effective, then the only thing that will matter in this game will be how much health you have and how much damage you deal.

Also, how does someone who plays pc not know what figure-8 strafing is?

Can you tell me about one competitive game just one where you can strafe Like Dust. Personally the only game i can think of is old arena shooters. Now after replying pick up that game and play it I bet you anything that even though you can strafe fast there is a slow down in speed when changing directions. Why? Because the speed at which the strafing is being done in this game is very difficult for human input to counter specially when the strafing doesn't even employ real physics.

Not being able to aim a hmg??! You guys love your crutches lol! Are we talking 10 meters away or 50?? I can aim perfectly fine being that I'm assault, and have been "aiming" for a while. It's when your left to right tracking speed is literally to slow to keep up with the strafe speed. That's extremely unrealistic?! If someone your trying to shoot moves at that speed.... oh why waste time?! You guys obviously need this crutch as well as the rest to even be viable. The hell with it. o7

I'm sorry that when they handed out mutant super powers, the one they gave you was the inability to perceive reality as it is, instead of as you think it to be.

The game has inertia while changing strafe directions. Go test it.

Even going as far back as Doom your character had some delay before changing direction while strafing. Go test it.

And seriously:


You are literally saying that aiming is hard, and that's why you don't like strafing.

That is what all these arguments boil down to, but I'm glad you stated it clearly for everyone to see.

HTFU.

Scouts should NOT be engaging in single combat against sentinels and assaults in CQC. Scouts should be opportunistic and picking moments where their target is most vulnerable and then murder him. This means backshots with nova knives, licking ears with shotguns or sniping.

Juking back and forth is not "speed tanking." Speed tanking is moving along your chosen trajectory so goddamn fast that it is more difficult to connect solid l, killing hits. If the stupid herky-jerky strafe BS goes away then suddenly KinCats, cardiac regulators and damps become STUPIDLY critical to scout survival. Because if you strafe and suddenly swap direction, you lose enough momentum that the enemy can hit you.

Juking and erratic movement should be useful at long ranges and WORTHLESS in CQC. The answer in CQC should always be KILL FASTER.

Speed tanking is straight line, lateral movement, crossing the T of the enemy fire arc as it were.

The epileptic dance is not speed tanking.

I don't even use kb/m but calling strafing a crutch is just ********.

Every single FPS/TPS use strafing in order to take advantage of your enemy. It's not the easiest thing to do as it requires a really good aim while strafing (and I know many players that doesnt know how to do it) and with this huge aim assit that CCP gave to everybody, it works even less than before.
If you take out this player skill, then TTK will drop amazingly and there wont be any fun left feom this game. What would be the point of a 250k isk proto suit if the first MLT guy can destroy it instantly even easier than he can now?
Dust is kind of a RpgFps, the rpg part gives skills to the player, but doesnt give him the victory! And the fps part is were the player skills are involved in order to aim right, take the good decisions, strafe wizely, etc.
Now the thing I believe should be done about scout strafing is to make their hitbox bigger so when they strafe they are still hitable.

Is this about strafing on KBM or the difficulty in shooting frontal assault scouts?

The KBM doesnt even respond well in Dust. I know a couple of PC gamers who were upset about CCP nerfing the KBM. The KBM users I know use KBM only for weapons that require precision shots.

Most of the strafing done in game seems to be done by DS3. Its easy for me to strafe figure eights and irregular patterns with my controller than a KB.

You will need data from CCP before stating that the strafers use KBM.

I think you're confusing people who are good with controllers with the few KBM controllers because the implication of precision of KBM. Its not strong here as you think.

By this simple comment you must mean that the strafe ability is realistic? You have clearly only ever played video games, and have no idea how fast weapon operators can switch between targets aiming down sights and high ready ( hipfire for game nerds). I guarantee no one can strafe faster than a human can aim! You run for cover or die! Sprint speed matters! You, like most crutch users, only troll forums to make sure no logical players reach CCP with any sense or logic. Next you'll say that real life mechanics shouldn't apply in a video game right? Until you get owned by something, and then you'll claim that things should be realistic. You honestly have no idea what your talking about l, but like most forum warriors you sling pointless insults, run to any post pointing out broken mechanics that scrubs use to protect the broken mechanic, and QQ about proto stompers, ads, and tanks when you lack the discipline to spec into AV.

Just to be sure you're not a complete tree hugger, you are aware the human body cannot change directions at that speed in order to dodge a weapons fire right?

Again, another reasonable response! Thank you. I had at first suggested to change the strafe speed, but maybe the speed at which the firing players aiming speed is improved! I play at 100 completely maxed out and it's too slow by far.

Sorry but I dont really understand what you mean by "the speed at which the firing players aiming speed?".. My english is not so perfect (as written below :3) Could you be more expressive please? :)

Tell me more about what realism has to do with my space combat energy weapon super-suit video game. Or for that matter, tell me more about what realism has to do with fun.

A human can't actually produce spirit energy from his hands, therefore Street Fighter isn't fun.

Turtle shells, even when painted RED, cannot heat seek a gokart, therefore Mario Kart isn't fun.

When you die in a war, there are no actual respawn points(I have a marine friend that looked very, VERY hard), therefore every FPS ever made isn't fun, since the game doesn't delete itself the first time you die.

YES I am saying that video games shouldn't be realistic just for the sake of "realism". And I'm just plain old fashioned RIGHT.

Or do you want to be the first one that mounts an M-16 to your console, with a trigger that can be remotely controlled by your opponents?

Also, my insults aren't pointless, they are very pointed, and are aimed at bad ideas from lackluster minds.

Oddly enough...


That's not a troll. It happens on occasion.

If the heavy can't aim then he desrves to lose the fight. Strafing is a 100% valid tactic as long as it doesn't result in a loss of hit detection. You just suck at strafing and can't hit moving targets so you want to get it removed. If strafing no longer becomes effective, then the only thing that will matter in this game will be how much health you have and how much damage you deal.

Also, how does someone who plays pc not know what figure-8 strafing is?

Aiming speed is adjustable. 0=fastest, 100=slowest. It's more like 'how much dampener' instead of 'how much speed'.
In a heavy, at fastest speed, my problem is overshoot - I turn too far and have to swing back to my target. I actually have more success with aim speed slowed to about 40. I don't remember being out-turned when I was on the fastest setting. Could be wrong, didn't have it there for very long and it was a while ago.
Also, pretty much every primary close to mid range rifle does roughly 700 damage per second. If that scout can aim while strafing, he should be getting the kill.

With that said, these are futuristic suits with future tech. Ever seen a jackhammer at work? With enough energy behind it, transitional speed can seem instantaneous, so don't worry about the realism of transitional strafe speed. Instead, focus on the tactics the scouts use. Jumping in a circle to avoid you? He's gotta land somewhere. Missing while your cross hairs chase him around the screen? Stop shooting (wasting bullets) and pause a half second. Prolong the time to reload. Hit with short bursts until he's done dancing like a jackrabbit. Back up and strafe as well. Experienced players will, I'm sure, find new ways to avoid that shiny new rifle you have. You need to change it up as well. Once the scout is within about 10 meters or so then he SHOULD have the advantage. Think featherweight with a butchers knife against a heavyweight. My burst hmg doesn't leave many scouts standing, IF I see them first, lol. Those **** cloakers usually get me still, though. It's just a difference of advantages.
The realistic portion of this game is your ability to seek out the weakness in your opponents strategy, and adapt your own to exploit his shortcomings.
Sometimes (for me it's often times) we're simply out skilled. Not just SP, but actual controller skill.
Those **** cloaked scouts really irritate me, but it's a legitimate tactic. Not asking for cloak to get nerfed. Find a way to overcome. Adapt. Try a new tactic.

You should do an integrity check to make sure you don't fall into this category bro.

http://youtu.be/buyUoGJVZFM

Usually it takes me to kill the scout since I can aim sadly. The cold hard truth is a lot of people in this game suck at aiming.

Cool, got nothing to say in response, but you haven't developed enough motor control to keep your gums from flapping, so in addition to calling me a treehugger, you post a Youtube video that's supposed to insult me.

I thought you didn't like pointless insults?

You don't like people strafing because you are bad at this game, and bad at FPS games in general. Strafing, figure-8s, juking, this is all part the dance of death that makes shooters fun to play, especially in 1on1 situations, and if you don't want that then you shouldn't be playing shooters.

Anyway, you gotta get over yourself, the bottom line is that if CCP ever manages to release Legion there'll be nothing but cheating super-strafing keyboard neckbeard tryhards playing this game, and none of them will really tolerate any sort of KB/M nerf, or for that matter none of them will tolerate the DS3's built in aim-bot.

You're assuming I can't shoot lol! See you in-game lmao! It's been fun, but I'm sorry the vid was simply too funny lol! I mean look at the size of that couch potatoes waist line lmao! Later bro!

I'm assuming you can't shoot based on the evidence you are presenting: Non-stop whining about not being able to shoot a moving target.

However, you're right, let's get some more data to check this assumption:

Your KD:
0.84 with 15,566 kills
1.38 win/loss

For comparison, let's compare a mediocre player's stats:
2.42 kd 30,873 kills
3.18 win/loss

That mediocre player would be me, FYI, and I play a LOT of highly competitive PC and Faction Warfare with the 2nd worst weapon in the game.

I'd say see you in game, but matchmaking is unlikely to put a mediocre player like me against an abysmal player like you.

Anyone who starts one of these movement nerf threads basically outs themselves as a trash player.

Movement in the game does not need a nerf, it probably needs a buff, and if you don't like hitting moving targets, then you're playing the wrong genre.

I'm not going through the whole thread so I may miss points.

0.02 ISK for those that care

The Argument over who is better in CQ, is close to over (Assault/Scout/Heavy) as they are near balanced.
So I think mercs need to be clarified on the terms for who/when/why they win in CQ

- Scout - If undetected can take down any target in CQ.

- Heavy - If supported and they use awareness they WIN CQ.. no excuses

- Assault - Should be holding his nemesis (Scout/Heavy) outside what I would call CQ (30m)

So from here all the 3 roles need to do is play their role.

- Scout - Disturbs enemy 'nest' killing/hacking as they go which leaves ...

- Heavy - Waits for scout to disturb nest, then they can move in and make it their own

- Assault - Supports the 'nest' take-over by allowing Scout/Heavy to secure it
while they slay anything that moves outside of cover.

All 3 suits have a role to perform, with varied fittings those roles can change. Such as
The reason for this thread - Strafing

Stafing can be utilised by any role once they avoid plates, and stay 'on their toes'
That goes for strafing HMG's to strafing Shotty scouts and even my strafing Assault Ck.0
It is a viable role and an alternative to sh1tbr1ck tanking..

if you tried it now your response would probably go something like this:

"What the actual F**K is this??? You can't do Sh*t with this stupid-ass interface!"

KB/M has been abandoned by everyone who doesn't have joint problems in their thumbs or a fundamental sucking with controllers, and only use them for fine-aim actions like sniping or precision forge, stuff that doesn't involve fast turns.

CCP dicked the KB/M hard.

and they're making Legion PC.

Irony strikes again.

I find myself agree with you too much today. A GOON as well!? What dark magic is this?

And dude about speed tanking and pushing scouts to brick tank earlier;

I understand what you are saying and I do actually properly speed tank. There might be a case for increasing time it takes to switch directions but I fear that this will make it even harder for me to escape bad engagements. As it is now many times I seem to get clipped through corners (I am assuming this is because of latency and other issues not my end), then we have the sprinting glitch that really f**ks you up when you least want it.

Yes I shouldn't argue on a basis of glitches and bugs but I am just telling it as it is right now.

Regardless strafing is a big part of this game, it has been since day one. Now if we as a community agree that there might need to be changes that's fine, however people saying that KB/M gives some imaginary advantage grinds my gears. It's also a horrible point to start a reason to balance on.

I also on a personal level do not want strafing to be slowed down in any way as I like the fast gameplay I can get with a speed scout. Having 200-300 hp in my opinion makes it perfectly balanced.

This isn't EVE Online where tracking speeds are set in stone. All it takes is a good shot, a lucky shot or predictive shooting and poof I'm gone. This is also an FPS so the notion of speed tanking is somewhat different and actually unusual to these battlefield esq shooters. I like that.

Adding inertia to strafing would make the game faster, since you couldn't use herky-jerky dancing to dodge fire at point blank range.

Time to kill would drop pretty hard and make your fit more important than your ability to make the controller do funky things.