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Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 81	Posted - 2014.09.15 19:06:00 - [31] - Quote I'm not even trying to be rude about it and I haven't put a single point into AV weapons (that will change after the million clone event hopefully. I use militia forge guns or tanks for my AV and haven't killed anything but an unoccupied Baloch with the forge gun and the Sica gets destroyed quickly if I don't get the first hit in from behind.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2787	Posted - 2014.09.15 21:04:00 - [32] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: That's B.S. but their here now so it's up to CCP if they want to clean their game of all the ganking methods and stop manipulation or will they continue to let the economy suffer for that reason , it's part of why you won't see any economy features of this game because of the exploits that exist and they would ruin the current economy in all of EVE , not just Dust if the two were tied . what economy? And jihad jeeps wont even make the EVE economy burp. We're talking about an economy that engulfs the loss of over a thousand ships with a loud belch and says "no worries, more where they came from. Battleships generally cost 200m ISK. Eve players lose more ISK in assets getting ganked while taking a **** than any DUST player loses in a month. How exactly will jihad jeeps ruin that economy?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13284	Posted - 2014.09.15 22:05:00 - [33] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: You should really calm down. I have seen the same entitled attitude regarding vehicles before and it was just as laughable then too. Vehicles are OP if they are meant for single user operation. If they were crew served, it would be a different story. As for you spending so many SP on them, I would say that was your choice, though why you want to be a vehicle purist in an FPS, IDK why you chose dust when other games have implemented vehicles better. If you did it so you could own infantry from a "safe" place, why not go kick puppies instead? I can understand the point of view but it simply is not possible to make an enjoyable aspect of the game if you require a minimum of two other players to operate (tank crews normals at 3+ if I remember correctly). It simply isn't possible to crew them, especially competitively, it isn't possible to have the co-ordination to function as a useful piece of machinery, and its not possible to make it and enjoyable aspect of gameplay with 3+ players required to operate a single vehicle. Plus tanks in Dust don't even work or feel like proper tanks. They have no weight, they move and fire on the fly, their cannon do not have AOE or powerful recoil, they do not one shot infantry, they do not have 1000+ m ranges like they should..... Tanks in Dust are pitiful. Their modules are in such a state of disrepair, their pilots filled with apathy and loathing for a simplified system that **** over skill and well invested players to ** away on a bunch of players who picked up a simplified system of OP monsters (1.7-1.8) and thought themselves good at what they did. Were is the Mass? The slow Acceleration? The Skilled active module activation? Where is the powerful ordinance that no other class/ role in the game to can bring to the battlefield? Where's the goddamned recoil! "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 385	Posted - 2014.09.15 22:32:00 - [34] - Quote Why be "constructive" (enter sarcasm here) on the forums when you've claimed countless times that you're done with Dust? On topic: - Scout suit scan should not work in vehicles - Add a timer to get back in your vehicle when you've hopped out
Shooter Somewhere Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 110	Posted - 2014.09.15 23:46:00 - [35] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: The tanks are fine as is so long as you play with some caution. You are not meant to be invincible and just because it takes a little bit of time kill a turret doesn't mean they should lower the health and the reason CCP raised the health on turrets is to give them a little more life expectancy so that maybe infantry can use them to kill tankers without running half way across the map to a supply depot to change loadouts. And just because you put 22 million SP into vehicles doesn't mean you should be a god. AV are meant to kill vehicles and against infantry those same people are at a disadvantage. AV are meant to keep you from running rampant over the game. If you see a forge gun blast then its time to high tail it out of the area and take cover. Dust 514 is more then generous to you. Damage mods, armor and shield hardeners, shield boosters and an incredible shield and armor regen are your defenses and how many other games have those for you? You have near everything you could possibly want and yet you ask for more when the weapon meant to kill you succeeds. Use caution and don't drive blindly into the enemy and you are more powerful then anything. I haven't put a single point into vehicles and with some caution I rarely have to replace anything. This is of course coming from someone who is AV. lol HEADSHOT! HEADSHOT!! HEADSHOT!!! HEADSHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=earCbU6vgAo
Shooter Somewhere Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 110	Posted - 2014.09.15 23:50:00 - [36] - Quote Atiim wrote: Shooter Somewhere wrote: AS FOR YOUR COMMENT ABOUT A TANKER SHOULD BE EQUAL TO AN AV MAKES ME WANT TO PUKE. I HAVE 22MIL SP IN TANKS. YOU HAVE AT THE MOST WHAT 5MIL SP IN YOUR LITTLE AV? AND THAT COMES WITH ADVATAGES OF BEING ABLE TO DO INFANTRY CRAP. Quote: Dropsuit Command III Minmatar Heavy Dropsuits III Minmatar Commando V Dropsuit Upgrades IV Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades V Dropsuit Armor Upgrades V Armor Plating V Armor Repairing V Dropsuit Shield Upgrades V Shield Extension V Dropsuit Core Upgrades V Dropsuit Engineering V Nanocircuitry V Dropsuit Electronics V Range Amplification V Profile Dampening V Precision Enhancement V Weaponry V Swarm Launcher Operation V Swarm Launcher Proficiency V Swarm Launcher Ammo Capacity V Swarm Launcher Rapid Reload V Swarm Launcher Fitting Optimization V [Secondary Weapon] Operation V [Secondary Weapon] Proficiency III [Secondary Weapon] Capacity V Total: 21,646,220 SP Congratulations, you've spent a whooping .35m more SP than a Semi-Maxed out Swarm Launcher user does. Sadly, I'm going to redact my congrats to you, as that amount is miniscule. Shooter Somewhere wrote: THATS LIKE SAYING MY MILTA SUITE WITH A BASIC RAIL RIFLE SHOULD KILL YOUR FULL PROTO HEAVY 1V1 AT LEAST ONCE IN A SINGLE GAME. A 5m SP investment is about 1/4 the investment of 22m SP, so it'd actually be: Quote: "That's like saying my STD Suit with an ADV Rifle should kill your PRO Sentinel at least once in a single game" Of course however, someone with a RR should be able to 1v1 a PRO Sentinel (or anything for that matter) if: The RR user is better than the Sentinel The Sentinel is lead into a trap by the RR user The Sentinel is inside the RR's Optimal Range The Sentinel is outside their Optimal Range However, I do thank you for revealing your motive, which apparently seems to be removing the HAV's ability to be killed at least once a match (see above). Now, I no longer need (nor should) take you seriously. Assuming I did in the first place, of course. Look another AV thinking he knows wtf hes talking about. My stance on AV HAD AND ALWAYS WILL be YOU CANT DO IT BY YOURSELF. I have a 22mil SP tank on an objective I should not get taken out by one dude with some swarms on a hill above me. You don't like it? Get a tank. (Oh wait no you want it to be COD mode nvm) HEADSHOT! HEADSHOT!! HEADSHOT!!! HEADSHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=earCbU6vgAo
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4131	Posted - 2014.09.16 00:20:00 - [37] - Quote Wait... This is a tanker thread asking for tank buffs? This is why a lot of people don't like tankers, because of this sense of entitlement. As if tanks are in a bad place right now and need some help. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 858	Posted - 2014.09.16 01:58:00 - [38] - Quote Quote: Look another AV thinking he knows wtf hes talking about. My stance on AV HAD AND ALWAYS WILL be YOU CANT DO IT BY YOURSELF. I have a 22mil SP tank on an objective I should not get taken out by one dude with some swarms on a hill above me. You don't like it? Get a tank. (Oh wait no you want it to be COD mode nvm) If the tanker is an idiot, then yes, one skilled AV'er should be able to kill a tank by themselves. If that AV'er gets the drop (RE's) on the tank, then they should be able to solo it. And that's pretty much how it is right now. The only way a single person is going to kill a tank is if A: The above, the tanker is a complete moron. This is generally the case with most militia tanks, or B: The AV'er gets on top of a building or mountain and the tank has no cover to get to. This is rare, as most of the maps have some sort of hill or structure to use for cover. Just because you have a lot of SP invested in something doesn't mean you shouldn't get taken out by someone with less SP than you or someone who has the advantage in positioning over you. Proto suit users can't make that argument. Even the best suit can be killed by militia if the user makes a mistake or just doesn't pay attention. While I don't actually agree with it, if you're going to say "You should be able to solo tanks period" then the scales should balance both ways. You should be able to drive a vehicle solo if it takes multiple people to kill them. One person should be driving while the other shoots. Nova Knives are best sidearm.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13288	Posted - 2014.09.16 02:05:00 - [39] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Wait... This is a tanker thread asking for tank buffs? This is why a lot of people don't like tankers, because of this sense of entitlement. As if tanks are in a bad place right now and need some help. Tanks are in the bad place right now. Not Efficiency wise..... but in the sense that they are poor renditions of tanks with no role, no in depth skill tree, no technical skill as all modules are essentially passive, and do not function as proper armoured vehicles. They do not bear massive fire power and ordinance such as no infantry man would be able to carry alone, they do not have mass, do not accelerate slowly, not not skid to a halt when stopping. Hell they can fire away on the move. Their turrets do not fire single shot AOE Shells with incredible AV potential...... their turrets do not track slowly, do not fire more than 500m...... Yet another reason I walked away from Dust 514 and right into Battlefield 4 and War Thunder Ground Forces. Better renditions of tanks, better gameplay. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 85	Posted - 2014.09.16 02:30:00 - [40] - Quote Shooter Somewhere wrote: This is of course coming from someone who is AV. lol I am resisting the urge to be an ass and the only AV weapons I have are a militia forge gun, the standard AV grenade and standard level 1 Swarm Launcher which I haven't touched. And the only thing I've killed with those weapons are LAV, I usually end up running to a rail gun turret when I see a tank and it usually takes 3 or 4 shots to kill a tank (assuming it doesn't use any mods)

Atiim 12180	Posted - 2014.09.16 02:41:00 - [41] - Quote It disappoints me that this thread will never produce anything constructive, which is a shame because I'd like to see what Pilots can do when left to collaborate to themselves. Maybe I'll get to see that someday... Shooter Somewhere wrote: Look another AV thinking he knows wtf hes talking about. My stance on AV HAD AND ALWAYS WILL be YOU CANT DO IT BY YOURSELF. As seen by my breakdown of your argument, I indeed "know wtf I'm talking about". Though if you feel as if I don't, I'd be very interested to hear why in a well layed out, and constructive manner. As for your stance, it means nothing. You can feel whatever you want, your emotions can be whatever you wish, but it won't change the fact that (1x GëÑ 2y) is bad for gameplay, and creates a situation where X is always better than Y, leaving no reason to use X in the first place, in turn: Removes the purpose of X's existence. Removes the diversity DUST is supposed to have, as you need Y to remain competitive. Though I challenge you, to give me one period in time (barring Uprising 1.7 - Hotfix Bravo) where HAVs, ADSs, or any vehicle couldn't be soloed by a reasonably skilled AVer. Something I do need to point out however, is your blaring hypocrisy. You claim that AVers shouldn't be allowed to solo you, as you have invested a large amount of SP (which is another idiotic argument), but you want to solo AVers who've invested an equal or proportional amount of SP. "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me". <--- Am I right? Shooter Somewhere wrote: I have a 22mil SP tank on an objective I should not get taken out by one dude with some swarms on a hill above me. You don't like it? Get a tank. (Oh wait no you want it to be COD mode nvm) If you're on an objective, and you're exposed, then I fail to see why you shouldn't get taken out by someone who brought a counter to your role. Perhaps if you weren't camping the objective and being stationary, you wouldn't have issues with a Swarm Launcher user. I want "COD Mode"? Surely you can refute my arguments with more than a Strawman, right? The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1752	Posted - 2014.09.16 04:24:00 - [42] - Quote Atiim wrote: It disappoints me that this thread will never produce anything constructive, which is a shame because I'd like to see what Pilots can do when left to collaborate to themselves. Maybe I'll get to see that someday... Shooter Somewhere wrote: Look another AV thinking he knows wtf hes talking about. My stance on AV HAD AND ALWAYS WILL be YOU CANT DO IT BY YOURSELF. As seen by my breakdown of your argument, I indeed "know wtf I'm talking about". Though if you feel as if I don't, I'd be very interested to hear why in a well layed out, and constructive manner. As for your stance, it means nothing. You can feel whatever you want, your emotions can be whatever you wish, but it won't change the fact that (1x GëÑ 2y) is bad for gameplay, and creates a situation where X is always better than Y, leaving no reason to use X in the first place, in turn: Removes the purpose of X's existence. Removes the diversity DUST is supposed to have, as you need Y to remain competitive. Though I challenge you, to give me one period in time (barring Uprising 1.7 - Hotfix Bravo) where HAVs, ADSs, or any vehicle couldn't be soloed by a reasonably skilled AVer. Something I do need to point out however, is your blaring hypocrisy. You claim that AVers shouldn't be allowed to solo you, as you have invested a large amount of SP (which is another idiotic argument), but you want to solo AVers who've invested an equal or proportional amount of SP. "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me". <--- Am I right? Shooter Somewhere wrote: I have a 22mil SP tank on an objective I should not get taken out by one dude with some swarms on a hill above me. You don't like it? Get a tank. (Oh wait no you want it to be COD mode nvm) If you're on an objective, and you're exposed, then I fail to see why you shouldn't get taken out by someone who brought a counter to your role. Perhaps if you weren't camping the objective and being stationary, you wouldn't have issues with a Swarm Launcher user. I want "COD Mode"? Surely you can refute my arguments with more than a Strawman, right? I want it to take 2-3 AV in coordination to kill my tank. But I want it to take 2-3 people, in the form of small turrets, to be able to kill infantry. Tanks need a massive buff in HP and regen, a huge nerf to acceleration, and be unable to reliably kill infantry unless fitted with small turrets. Small turrets should be mandatory on tanks in the sense that it is suicide to not have them. This is balance. Tankers can survive multiple AV firing on them, but be unable to retaliate without fitting small turrets. Shoot Scout with yes.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2788	Posted - 2014.09.16 06:26:00 - [43] - Quote I'm detecting large concentrations of the element butthurtium 231. We need to get the collectors in here ASAP.
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Public.Disorder. 627	Posted - 2014.09.16 08:34:00 - [44] - Quote I love it when tankers claim jihad jeeps and solo AVers "break immersion". What standard of immersion is this drawing from? It can't be reality, because in reality, guerrilla tactics like suicide bombers, and solo AV weapons like TOW and Javelin missiles are the number ONE killers of even the best armored vehicles. So the only "immersion" that is being broken is their entitled ideal world where tanks can roll around with reckless abandon, shrugging off all but the most high level, concentrated AV efforts, while mowing down infantry like some kind of god-possessed combine harvester.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2789	Posted - 2014.09.16 09:49:00 - [45] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: I love it when tankers claim jihad jeeps and solo AVers "break immersion". What standard of immersion is this drawing from? It can't be reality, because in reality, guerrilla tactics like suicide bombers, and solo AV weapons like TOW and Javelin missiles are the number ONE killers of even the best armored vehicles. So the only "immersion" that is being broken is their entitled ideal world where tanks can roll around with reckless abandon, shrugging off all but the most high level, concentrated AV efforts, while mowing down infantry like some kind of god-possessed combine harvester. /thread. Care to try again with an eye for balance instead of outrage that filthy infantry can halt your rampages?
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3523	Posted - 2014.09.16 10:10:00 - [46] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: JLAVs are a valid tactic. The only way to get killed by one is if you aren't paying attention (incompetence), or if the LAV Pilot manages to out-smart and/or out-maneuver you, in which case he's simply better than you. All you have to do to stop them is either activate a NOS and then thrust in the opposite direction, causing them to miss their mark and allows you to destroy them; or shoot the REs and blow up the LAV. Heck, you can even shoot them out of the driver seat if you have a Missile Turret (AT-201 or better). As for rooftop campers, if Pilots weren't able to zoom in and insta-kill AVers with a Boundless or Six Kin HMG, you'd see far less tower camping. Though the short range of a SL (175m) makes tower camping rather redundant in most situations. Though if an AVer catches you by surprise, you should suffer the consequences. You know that's not true...... but hell what does it matter at this point. Only reason I hate JLAV's is because it utterly destroys immersion and spits on the values of New Eden on which this was designed. What value? HTFU? I'd say devising a method to circumvent the OP tanks of what was 1.8 follows this one? Don't fly what you can't afford? Works here again. Welcome to New Eden MF! I'd say this almost perfectly describes the JLAV. Also which appears more immersion breaking out of the following options. An Immortal Mercenary sacrificing himself in giant ball of death to eliminate a tank? OR A tank out running Missiles and Jeeps? OR Infantry units standing in the open 'chop-strafing' against each other? They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3523	Posted - 2014.09.16 10:17:00 - [47] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Atiim wrote: It disappoints me that this thread will never produce anything constructive, which is a shame because I'd like to see what Pilots can do when left to collaborate to themselves. Maybe I'll get to see that someday... Shooter Somewhere wrote: Look another AV thinking he knows wtf hes talking about. My stance on AV HAD AND ALWAYS WILL be YOU CANT DO IT BY YOURSELF. As seen by my breakdown of your argument, I indeed "know wtf I'm talking about". Though if you feel as if I don't, I'd be very interested to hear why in a well layed out, and constructive manner. As for your stance, it means nothing. You can feel whatever you want, your emotions can be whatever you wish, but it won't change the fact that (1x GëÑ 2y) is bad for gameplay, and creates a situation where X is always better than Y, leaving no reason to use X in the first place, in turn: Removes the purpose of X's existence. Removes the diversity DUST is supposed to have, as you need Y to remain competitive. Though I challenge you, to give me one period in time (barring Uprising 1.7 - Hotfix Bravo) where HAVs, ADSs, or any vehicle couldn't be soloed by a reasonably skilled AVer. Something I do need to point out however, is your blaring hypocrisy. You claim that AVers shouldn't be allowed to solo you, as you have invested a large amount of SP (which is another idiotic argument), but you want to solo AVers who've invested an equal or proportional amount of SP. "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me". <--- Am I right? Shooter Somewhere wrote: I have a 22mil SP tank on an objective I should not get taken out by one dude with some swarms on a hill above me. You don't like it? Get a tank. (Oh wait no you want it to be COD mode nvm) If you're on an objective, and you're exposed, then I fail to see why you shouldn't get taken out by someone who brought a counter to your role. Perhaps if you weren't camping the objective and being stationary, you wouldn't have issues with a Swarm Launcher user. I want "COD Mode"? Surely you can refute my arguments with more than a Strawman, right? I want it to take 2-3 AV in coordination to kill my tank. But I want it to take 2-3 people, in the form of small turrets, to be able to kill infantry. Tanks need a massive buff in HP and regen, a huge nerf to acceleration, and be unable to reliably kill infantry unless fitted with small turrets. Small turrets should be mandatory on tanks in the sense that it is suicide to not have them. This is balance. Tankers can survive multiple AV firing on them, but be unable to retaliate without fitting small turrets. If you have good gunners it DOES take 2+ people to take out your tank. A top gunner will mean as an AVer I need to hang back and move from vantage point to vantage point. I can't approach close enough to RE's or Packed AV grenades, which are the main source of an AVers soloing power. The only way your HAV is dying to 1 guy with a Swarm Launcher is if your running a glass cannon fit. However I feel obligied to tell you, my 3800 Armour Dropship can survive 4 volleys. What are you doing whilst your getting hit? They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3523	Posted - 2014.09.16 10:25:00 - [48] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: As a pilot of both tanks and ADS, AV should not "gtfo" they are an integral part of the equation. However, I feel both groups are in this "if we give an inch, they'll take a mile" mentality. To Atiim: that amount of SP does give you a semi-maxed out swarmer. However, I ask you to look at your list once again. Quote: GÇó Dropsuit Command III GÇó Minmatar Heavy Dropsuits III GÇó Minmatar Commando V GÇó Dropsuit Upgrades IV GÇó Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades V GÇó Dropsuit Armor Upgrades V GÇó Armor Plating V GÇó Armor Repairing V GÇó Dropsuit Shield Upgrades V GÇó Shield Extension V GÇó Dropsuit Core Upgrades V GÇó Dropsuit Engineering V GÇó Nanocircuitry V GÇó Dropsuit Electronics V GÇó Range Amplification V GÇó Profile Dampening V GÇó Precision Enhancement V GÇó Weaponry V GÇó Swarm Launcher Operation V GÇó Swarm Launcher Proficiency V GÇó Swarm Launcher Ammo Capacity V GÇó Swarm Launcher Rapid Reload V GÇó Swarm Launcher Fitting Optimization V GÇó [Secondary Weapon] Operation V GÇó [Secondary Weapon] Proficiency III GÇó [Secondary Weapon] Capacity V Total: 21,646,220 SP All skills I have marked give you a bonus beyond unlocking tiers. For instance, Profile Dampening, in addition to unlocking tiers of dampener, also decreases your suit profilie on any suit you wear. There are a mere handful of skills that confer a bonus to vehicles. We do not even have a Vehicle Electronic/Engineering skill to give us more PG/CPU. This is part of the frustration vehicles feel. We cannot even begin to fit our vehicles as we wish, yet more nerfs to them are called for. Armour Fitting Optimisation Armour Repair Modules Armour Composition Shield Fitting Optimisation Core Engine Management Core Energy Distrubution Just to name a few. I'd be all for giving you a little more fitting power if that's what you want, provided you take a hit to some of ykur modules to ensure they aren't spammed. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2137	Posted - 2014.09.16 11:04:00 - [49] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: I love it when tankers claim jihad jeeps and solo AVers "break immersion". What standard of immersion is this drawing from? It can't be reality, because in reality, guerrilla tactics like suicide bombers, and solo AV weapons like TOW and Javelin missiles are the number ONE killers of even the best armored vehicles. So the only "immersion" that is being broken is their entitled ideal world where tanks can roll around with reckless abandon, shrugging off all but the most high level, concentrated AV efforts, while mowing down infantry like some kind of god-possessed combine harvester. Vehicles not being crew served is the one immersion breaking thing about vehicles that totally breaks it for me. True Adamance wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: You should really calm down. I have seen the same entitled attitude regarding vehicles before and it was just as laughable then too. Vehicles are OP if they are meant for single user operation. If they were crew served, it would be a different story. As for you spending so many SP on them, I would say that was your choice, though why you want to be a vehicle purist in an FPS, IDK why you chose dust when other games have implemented vehicles better. If you did it so you could own infantry from a "safe" place, why not go kick puppies instead? I can understand the point of view but it simply is not possible to make an enjoyable aspect of the game if you require a minimum of two other players to operate (tank crews normals at 3+ if I remember correctly). It simply isn't possible to crew them, especially competitively, it isn't possible to have the co-ordination to function as a useful piece of machinery, and its not possible to make it and enjoyable aspect of gameplay with 3+ players required to operate a single vehicle. Plus tanks in Dust don't even work or feel like proper tanks. They have no weight, they move and fire on the fly, their cannon do not have AOE or powerful recoil, they do not one shot infantry, they do not have 1000+ m ranges like they should..... Tanks in Dust are pitiful. Their modules are in such a state of disrepair, their pilots filled with apathy and loathing for a simplified system that **** over skill and well invested players to ** away on a bunch of players who picked up a simplified system of OP monsters (1.7-1.8) and thought themselves good at what they did. Were is the Mass? The slow Acceleration? The Skilled active module activation? Where is the powerful ordinance that no other class/ role in the game to can bring to the battlefield? Where's the goddamned recoil! <3 you True (despite the fact that you are Imperialist Amarr trash). I truly hope that (if not in Dust) in Legion we get vehicles just as you've described them, Crew Served and all. We need vehicles to be in a better way than they ever have been in Dust. Team Assets that help propel their side to victory only though internal coordination and teamwork. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Atiim 12186	Posted - 2014.09.16 11:18:00 - [50] - Quote I just realized that I forgot to put Handheld Weapon Upgrades on my list. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2792	Posted - 2014.09.16 11:53:00 - [51] - Quote One person running a tank is just as believable as one jerkass in a pod controlling, micromanagingvand operating every fubction on a seventeen kilometer titan while navigating it, firing the guns simultaneoudly while dropping a doomsdat on the second dreadnought that just jumped in and locked into siege mode. Comparatively running a tank would be trivial. Jump in, jack into the interface, light the reactor plant and go. The tech for neural interfacing is part of the lore. Thats why you can have the driver be the primary gunner. Secondary gunners exist because humans can only multitask so much in an FPS. In EVE lore excep for cursory functionality the crew is largely extraneous once the shooting starts. And none of those crew are players.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2792	Posted - 2014.09.16 11:57:00 - [52] - Quote Oh and Monkey MAC is entirely correct. Party tanks are much harder to kill without pulling a double backshot. Being in the front arc of the tank with two secondary gunners is pretty much a dropsuit writeoff. Respawn and attack from a different angle.
Shooter Somewhere Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 111	Posted - 2014.09.16 12:09:00 - [53] - Quote Atiim wrote: It disappoints me that this thread will never produce anything constructive, which is a shame because I'd like to see what Pilots can do when left to collaborate to themselves. Maybe I'll get to see that someday... Shooter Somewhere wrote: Look another AV thinking he knows wtf hes talking about. My stance on AV HAD AND ALWAYS WILL be YOU CANT DO IT BY YOURSELF. As seen by my breakdown of your argument, I indeed "know wtf I'm talking about". Though if you feel as if I don't, I'd be very interested to hear why in a well layed out, and constructive manner. As for your stance, it means nothing. You can feel whatever you want, your emotions can be whatever you wish, but it won't change the fact that (1x GëÑ 2y) is bad for gameplay, and creates a situation where X is always better than Y, leaving no reason to use X in the first place, in turn: Removes the purpose of X's existence. Removes the diversity DUST is supposed to have, as you need Y to remain competitive. Though I challenge you, to give me one period in time (barring Uprising 1.7 - Hotfix Bravo) where HAVs, ADSs, or any vehicle couldn't be soloed by a reasonably skilled AVer. Something I do need to point out however, is your blaring hypocrisy. You claim that AVers shouldn't be allowed to solo you, as you have invested a large amount of SP (which is another idiotic argument), but you want to solo AVers who've invested an equal or proportional amount of SP. "Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me". <--- Am I right? Shooter Somewhere wrote: I have a 22mil SP tank on an objective I should not get taken out by one dude with some swarms on a hill above me. You don't like it? Get a tank. (Oh wait no you want it to be COD mode nvm) If you're on an objective, and you're exposed, then I fail to see why you shouldn't get taken out by someone who brought a counter to your role. Perhaps if you weren't camping the objective and being stationary, you wouldn't have issues with a Swarm Launcher user. I want "COD Mode"? Surely you can refute my arguments with more than a Strawman, right? Arguing with AV is painful but im going to do it anyways because your a piece of **. You listed off EVERY POSSIBLE THING you going put into an AV role. Including stupid crap like ammo compacity for side arms and the swram launcher its self, all the Ewar skills you even claimed that maxing fitting opmt for sidearm and the swarm itself is also a must? are you a noob or just stupid? (oh and lets not forget basic to adv nano hives are not enough for you you HAVE TO HAVE PROTO.) Lol your a laugh. Now lets just assume a tanker Puts V in everything it needs. You know what I wont even go into that because I still have 5mil SP that need to go into vehicle upgrades alone not counting command or turrets which 5mil SP is more than enough SP to win again any Vehicle using AV and still stomp and infantry and ill show you soon enough. SO ON YOU LIFE. Do not come on here and Say 1 AV is worth 1 tank in this game or an any other because its bs and I have a feeling echo is going to be a really rude wake up call for you AV boys and your COD play style. Small Rail ROF - reduced on purpose, both on landed dropships, ADS rapid fire and long range LAV sniper platforms Rail efficiency (damage profile), reduced against infantry, increased against vehicles - intended Both damage profile changes apply to all vehicles and infantry, not just dropships Large blaster turret - reduced efficiency against infantry - intended Large Rail turret - stop console pummeling from a range, also the ease of which Large turrets (Blasters and Rails) can remove Proximity Mines with splash We need to stop vehicles overall, murdering infantry wholesale unless you dedicate your vehicle towards that. If you do so, you also must bring your vehicle closer so it is at risk, i.e. small blasters. Risk free playstyles are going the way of the dodo. We will look at LAV and HAV shield recharge delay and how it works with small blasters, maybe reduce it on LAV's specifically. We are also reducing small turret ISK prices across the board by 30%. I would like to revisit HAV engagement cycles in the future, especially if we try and bring back vehicle variants.** That includes damage, behaviour and range for all Large Turrets, still just tweaks but a holistic review. Second, we will look at aiming more upwards and downwards, and also look into the difference between the turrets and racial hulls themselves in that regard. An HAV shuold have a way to defend against dropships, I just wish we could have a swarm launcher small turret Proper placement of small turrets based on the fitting screen is also something on the backlog. Rotation speed and proficiency skills is also something we need to take a look at. Unmanned direction is killing me, it never seems to line up how I want it, sometimes I even try to get into the turret, line it up, and then drive into battle and hope it is looking in the right way. and this was all in CCP rattati words it was far in comments of some post though so not to make people say it. I hope you like what you see Mr. Cod AVer. (I suggest you go make a post refreshing every ones minds on tanker hate. You know you wouldn't want us having a role in the game again would you?) HEADSHOT! HEADSHOT!! HEADSHOT!!! HEADSHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=earCbU6vgAo
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4905	Posted - 2014.09.16 12:36:00 - [54] - Quote Shooter Somewhere wrote: Arguing with AV is painful ... Why do you think that is? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Shooter Somewhere Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 111	Posted - 2014.09.16 13:52:00 - [55] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Shooter Somewhere wrote: Arguing with AV is painful ... Why do you think that is? Because they have never been a tanker or have used them before. Unlike them I know what its like to be in their shoes because I have an ALT in the best form of AV alive. Ill be posting a video of it after the event. I have been killed by tanks on ground just as much as you guys have and its nothing to blow up the forms about. You were caught in the open out of your redline what did you expect? stay on the point instead of trying to hunt kills for your kdr. Or do you want this game to be COD514? HEADSHOT! HEADSHOT!! HEADSHOT!!! HEADSHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=earCbU6vgAo
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1061	Posted - 2014.09.16 13:59:00 - [56] - Quote I want pre-1.7 vehicles, modules, variations and AV back. And then balancing done from there. And some of the good new stuff implemented to those old things as well. I don't want Jihad LAVs gone.
Tebu Gan Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1200	Posted - 2014.09.16 18:39:00 - [57] - Quote I think I'm done til they actually address that making tanks AV focused only removes them from the game. Just started destiny, MUCH more fun, and the PVP isn't terribly skewed like it is with dust. I sure hope they wise up, but I have serious doubts they will. At the very least, if they are going to ruin tanking like they intend to do, at the very least reduce the price to match infantry on vehicles. Anyways till then, see ya dust, might sign on from time to time but all the people I know have already moved on over to destiny. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2139	Posted - 2014.09.16 19:15:00 - [58] - Quote If you want my honest opinion, vehicles as they currently exist in Dust should be scrapped entirely and reworked from the ground up. Do one vehicle class at a time and release them for all four races at the same time. Start with LAVs, get all of them to a nice balance (including small turrets for all four races and all applicable mods as well), then move forward to MAVs, rinse and repeat until we have all the vehicles. After a point it will become less work since you will just need to scale certain mods appropriately (all that would be needed is to determine how much more powerful and costly larger versions of mods developed earlier need to be). In the interim, vehicle operators can play as infantry or wait until their vehicle of choice is reintroduced. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Heimdallr69 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 3578	Posted - 2014.09.16 19:31:00 - [59] - Quote Jihad is my only complaint.. Something free shouldn't be able to take out a 500k isk tank in a second. Especially with how good AV is now. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Shooter Somewhere Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 116	Posted - 2014.09.16 20:43:00 - [60] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: I think I'm done til they actually address that making tanks AV focused only removes them from the game. Just started destiny, MUCH more fun, and the PVP isn't terribly skewed like it is with dust. I sure hope they wise up, but I have serious doubts they will. At the very least, if they are going to ruin tanking like they intend to do, at the very least reduce the price to match infantry on vehicles. Anyways till then, see ya dust, might sign on from time to time but all the people I know have already moved on over to destiny. R.I.P tebu gan. These hotfixes have claimed another fine tanker. Btw im going to like you so it messes up your gorgeous 1200 HEADSHOT! HEADSHOT!! HEADSHOT!!! HEADSHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=earCbU6vgAo



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