DUST Search - SCR vs TAC Science video

Bethhy wrote:

Vell0cet wrote:

There's an issue in the debate that is relevant, and you're kind of the perfect person to address it. That's how overheat balances the ScR. In my experience, there are 2 circumstances with the ScR. The first is you accept that you're going to overheat and want to pump out as much damage as possible (maybe because you have range and cover/support nearby--or you REALLY want to get the kill on someone). This is easy to test just spamming the R1 until overheat. The second is when you're "holding back" because you're being conscientious of overheat. It would be really interesting to see a video where you went back through your firefights where you were consciously avoiding overheating and compare that to the actual DPS of what would be possible with max DPS minus 1 shot. In other words, when players "hold back" to prevent overheating, what percent of their DPS are they giving up?

This is a big part of what makes the ScR a skill shot weapon. You're probably on the upper end of that curve, getting the most out of it.

When one gun has 18 bullet clips and requires 2x to 3x more reloading to stay relevant in killing potential... The overheat function is moot in comparison.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 814	Posted - 2014.09.02 22:43:00 - [1] - Quote This video is also posted in the F&D under the Scrambler sticky post. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuOXdZfHeN8&feature=youtu.be YouTube
Tectonic Fusion 2127	Posted - 2014.09.02 22:45:00 - [2] - Quote Why would you even make this? ScR > TAR it's been this way since the TAR was nerfed. (GIF)
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 814	Posted - 2014.09.02 22:47:00 - [3] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: Why would you even make this? ScR > TAR it's been this way since the TAR was nerfed. To show why. YouTube
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2079	Posted - 2014.09.02 22:51:00 - [4] - Quote You sound way different on Comms. Likes are my candy and in these forums every day is Halloween. XD Sweets for everyone! Forums > Game
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 814	Posted - 2014.09.02 23:05:00 - [5] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: You sound way different on Comms. Comms in game bring out my Cajun rage. YouTube
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 380	Posted - 2014.09.02 23:13:00 - [6] - Quote Here's to fixing that Tac AR in the next hotfix... More range would do nicely, hate when a rail rifle can spray more damage on my body than I can pop on their head.
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 189	Posted - 2014.09.02 23:14:00 - [7] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: This video is also posted in the F&D under the Scrambler sticky post. Things covered in this comentary video: -Stats, Cost, and Skill of the TAC vs the SCR. -TAC in action showing it shining in Optimal and falling on it's ass in <30 meters (Some slowmo comparison) -SCR in action showing it shining in all ranges (Also with slow motion comparison) -Outside of game video showing both riflers firing at a near consistent 480 rounds per min using a metronome set at 120bpm with 16th note subdivisions -Slow motion of the TAC misfiring while well under 500 RPM (Bug?) and what I fear would happen if the ROF gets lowered to much on the SCR -EXTREME dispersion difference in both hip fire and ADS between the two (side by side using a commando firing at a wall) -A bad ass drummer in the background. (seriously, this dude is remarkable) And for all those claiming that more than 6 trigger pulls per second controlled is not possible, wtf is wrong with you? Eat some Wheaties or something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuOXdZfHeN8&feature=youtu.be I agree on changing the scope on TAR. The Blazing Intellect Machine
CommanderBolt Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1460	Posted - 2014.09.02 23:19:00 - [8] - Quote The scope on he Tac AR is pretty bad but I could deal with it if the weapon performed. It is funny how one of the DMR type weapons in this game is outperformed in both range and many other factors by weapons like the RR which is a full auto.... -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4710	Posted - 2014.09.02 23:41:00 - [9] - Quote Excellent video. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Joel II X Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3246	Posted - 2014.09.03 00:03:00 - [10] - Quote Does this mean you'll be doing one for the Burst AR v CR?

ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 817	Posted - 2014.09.03 00:10:00 - [11] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Does this mean you'll be doing one for the Burst AR v CR? I'd have to use them quite a bit first. I do use the CR, but I've never been a fan of the burst AR, haven't tried it since it was a 6 round burst weapon. The TAC was my favorite back when we used to have TV cameras instead of scopes. YouTube
xavier zor King and Queens Peacekeepers of High-Sec 29	Posted - 2014.09.03 00:18:00 - [12] - Quote The scrambler rifle is to over powered. They need to nerf it Tactical Assault Rifle's for life
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 852	Posted - 2014.09.03 06:47:00 - [13] - Quote Excellent video, deserves way more attention that it got. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 213	Posted - 2014.09.03 07:23:00 - [14] - Quote Great video, again. The only thing that I think was missed is the fitting requirements. To me, the huge pg cost of the scrambler (particularly adv and pro) is a major balancing factor. I don't often hear people mention it. Still, the scrambler is a great weapon. If it needs a nerf it shouldn't be by much.
Kin Cat Another Clone in the Wall 10	Posted - 2014.09.03 10:09:00 - [15] - Quote i'd be much more interested to see if the Flaylock is better or something for christ sake the TAR is the worst weapon in the game
Shiyou Hidiyoshi Ancient Exiles. 904	Posted - 2014.09.03 10:14:00 - [16] - Quote The SCR is a long range weapon right? If so, then I why does it have 80% efficiency minimum in the video at close range... did I read it wrong or something? -.- ...

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6524	Posted - 2014.09.03 10:27:00 - [17] - Quote Thanks, have you taken a look at the proposal in the Scrambler thread in I&F forums? This was a really good video, and clearly laid out the problems of the Tac AR and the "efficiency" of the Scrambler, more than my numbers could. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3425	Posted - 2014.09.03 10:32:00 - [18] - Quote I think if anything this shows how the ScR needs to be more like the TACAR. Poorer hipfire Greater Kick Slightly Slower ROF The TACAR performed as it should do, inside the range it's expected, while the ScR performs in every range. This needs to be fixed. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 824	Posted - 2014.09.03 11:00:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks, have you taken a look at the proposal in the Scrambler thread in I&F forums? This was a really good video, and clearly laid out the problems of the Tac AR and the "efficiency" of the Scrambler, more than my numbers could. I made this video for that thread. I posted it there first, but it was lost in the rest of the discussion. YouTube
HMG Lover I Just Killed You 0	Posted - 2014.09.03 12:06:00 - [20] - Quote Great Video... The destiny countdown -----> http://destinycountdown.com/

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 757	Posted - 2014.09.03 12:08:00 - [21] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Does this mean you'll be doing one for the Burst AR v CR? i hope they up the RPM on the AR to like 1200 that way it should be comparable to the burst fire CR.. then the only difference would be the damage profiles where CR will always win due to players being armor tanked cause shield tanking is just laughable.. but simple thing is.. AR vs shield tankers CR vs armor tankers shield tankers are weak cause 1 flux nade and 100% of their tank is gone. no such drawback for armor tankers except speed. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1303	Posted - 2014.09.03 12:19:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks, have you taken a look at the proposal in the Scrambler thread in I&F forums? This was a really good video, and clearly laid out the problems of the Tac AR and the "efficiency" of the Scrambler, more than my numbers could. as far as game play performance the Tac AR is very strong if the shots land. if you were to buff the AR properly the scrambler rifle would only need a ROF cap to stop turbo controlers. the Tac ARs problem is applying that damage with the weird kick it has and the despersion plus there is no need for a zoom scope on a shorter range weapon. give the Tac AR a simple reddot sight and you have yourself a winner. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4134	Posted - 2014.09.03 12:44:00 - [23] - Quote Nice video. If I could click even half that fast I would be popping Ibuprofen after two matches, for my poor abused joints. Which is why I stick to automatic weapons. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2228	Posted - 2014.09.03 12:52:00 - [24] - Quote Shiyou Hidiyoshi wrote: The SCR is a long range weapon right? If so, then I why does it have 80% efficiency minimum in the video at close range... did I read it wrong or something? -.- ... The ScR is 120% to shields and 80% to armor. Best PvE idea ever!
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2366	Posted - 2014.09.03 12:54:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks, have you taken a look at the proposal in the Scrambler thread in I&F forums? This was a really good video, and clearly laid out the problems of the Tac AR and the "efficiency" of the Scrambler, more than my numbers could. You can tweak a number here and there all you like. This is a Mechanics issue. Hit detection is horrible... Has been horrible and the entire system has been taken LESS SERIOUSLY then Plants Vs Zombies Hit detection... How can you build a shooter and the fundamentals to it is a cartoon hit detection system.... Until CCP Shanghai masters a dynamic hit detection system with actual hit scan weapons.. Aiming, Bullet registry, Hit detection.. And the general Shooter feel of a game will be absent.
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2228	Posted - 2014.09.03 13:07:00 - [26] - Quote There's an issue in the debate that is relevant, and you're kind of the perfect person to address it. That's how overheat balances the ScR. In my experience, there are 2 circumstances with the ScR. The first is you accept that you're going to overheat and want to pump out as much damage as possible (maybe because you have range and cover/support nearby--or you REALLY want to get the kill on someone). This is easy to test just spamming the R1 until overheat. The second is when you're "holding back" because you're being conscientious of overheat. It would be really interesting to see a video where you went back through your firefights where you were consciously avoiding overheating and compare that to the actual DPS of what would be possible with max DPS minus 1 shot. In other words, when players "hold back" to prevent overheating, what percent of their DPS are they giving up? Best PvE idea ever!
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2366	Posted - 2014.09.03 13:19:00 - [27] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: There's an issue in the debate that is relevant, and you're kind of the perfect person to address it. That's how overheat balances the ScR. In my experience, there are 2 circumstances with the ScR. The first is you accept that you're going to overheat and want to pump out as much damage as possible (maybe because you have range and cover/support nearby--or you REALLY want to get the kill on someone). This is easy to test just spamming the R1 until overheat. The second is when you're "holding back" because you're being conscientious of overheat. It would be really interesting to see a video where you went back through your firefights where you were consciously avoiding overheating and compare that to the actual DPS of what would be possible with max DPS minus 1 shot. In other words, when players "hold back" to prevent overheating, what percent of their DPS are they giving up? This is a big part of what makes the ScR a skill shot weapon. You're probably on the upper end of that curve, getting the most out of it. When one gun has 18 bullet clips and requires 2x to 3x more reloading to stay relevant in killing potential... The overheat function is moot in comparison.
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2228	Posted - 2014.09.03 13:27:00 - [28] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Vell0cet wrote: There's an issue in the debate that is relevant, and you're kind of the perfect person to address it. That's how overheat balances the ScR. In my experience, there are 2 circumstances with the ScR. The first is you accept that you're going to overheat and want to pump out as much damage as possible (maybe because you have range and cover/support nearby--or you REALLY want to get the kill on someone). This is easy to test just spamming the R1 until overheat. The second is when you're "holding back" because you're being conscientious of overheat. It would be really interesting to see a video where you went back through your firefights where you were consciously avoiding overheating and compare that to the actual DPS of what would be possible with max DPS minus 1 shot. In other words, when players "hold back" to prevent overheating, what percent of their DPS are they giving up? This is a big part of what makes the ScR a skill shot weapon. You're probably on the upper end of that curve, getting the most out of it. When one gun has 18 bullet clips and requires 2x to 3x more reloading to stay relevant in killing potential... The overheat function is moot in comparison. It's not moot at all. They are 2 different mechanics, and it's important to understand how they both affect actual gameplay. Yes the reload on the TAC is important to its balance, but you can always pump out the max DPS without trying to hold back to manage heat. When you finish your clip and start reloading, you can always switch to your sidearm, whereas when you overheat, you're taking damage and a sitting duck for a few seconds. Players do hold back to prevent overheat, and knowing how much DPS they miss out on by doing so in practice (not just on paper) is valuable and can only help inform the discussion. Best PvE idea ever!
Arcturis Vanguard Murphys-Law 275	Posted - 2014.09.03 13:37:00 - [29] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: I think if anything this shows how the ScR needs to be more like the TACAR. Poorer hipfire Greater Kick Slightly Slower ROF The TACAR performed as it should do, inside the range it's expected, while the ScR performs in every range. This needs to be fixed. So your wish would be that the scrambler become a shell and utterly useless compared to the mainstream use of rail rifles and combat rifles... No wonder why this games isn't going well...too much help from individuals who know nothing and add nothing for proper balance and then ccp caters to them... Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Jace Kaisar 87	Posted - 2014.09.03 14:53:00 - [30] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: This video is also posted in the F&D under the Scrambler sticky post. Things covered in this comentary video: -Stats, Cost, and Skill of the TAC vs the SCR. -TAC in action showing it shining in Optimal and falling on it's ass in <30 meters (Some slowmo comparison) -SCR in action showing it shining in all ranges (Also with slow motion comparison) -Outside of game video showing both riflers firing at a near consistent 480 rounds per min using a metronome set at 120bpm with 16th note subdivisions -Slow motion of the TAC misfiring while well under 500 RPM (Bug?) and what I fear would happen if the ROF gets lowered to much on the SCR -EXTREME dispersion difference in both hip fire and ADS between the two (side by side using a commando firing at a wall) -A bad ass drummer in the background. (seriously, this dude is remarkable) And for all those claiming that more than 6 trigger pulls per second controlled is not possible, wtf is wrong with you? Eat some Wheaties or something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuOXdZfHeN8&feature=youtu.be I spied DJ Grammer in that video. I'm a Spooky Scary Ghost Before you ask, yes this is me.



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