DUST Search - Are swarms better or worse now?

I-Shayz-I wrote:

The last time I used a swarm launcher was open beta. Ever since I got forge prof 4 I've pretty much only ever used forges and RE's to kill tanks alongside AV nades.

I stopped using swarms because they wouldn't deal enough damage and all suits I tried using them with were too weak. Now that the assaults are buffed I feel much more comfortable running swarms on my minmatar assault rather than a minmatar logi. My Caldari Assault might even work better as the extra high slot would be easier to fit multiple damage mods.

Heck, maybe I just need to figure out a good minmatar commando fitting? I'm guessing the extra damage and reload speed helps a ton...but I don't know how I feel about now having AV grenades.
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But the point is, I've been seeing a lot of swarm launchers killing tanks recently and I'm slightly confused. Originally people were complaining about the changes to swarms in Charlie, but were they wrong about the reduction of missiles fired? Each missile now does more damage per hit, and light weapon damage mods were increased...

So how do swarms feel? Are proto swarms necessary? Is proficiency the key to making them useful? Are they more of a finishing weapon now or is it better to use them alongside other AV? Does the suit make the weapon or can they be used effectively on any suit now?

I'd like the community's opinion before I drop a few hundred sp on getting them to proto again.

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I-Shayz-I I----------I 4685	Posted - 2014.08.26 09:10:00 - [1] - Quote The last time I used a swarm launcher was open beta. Ever since I got forge prof 4 I've pretty much only ever used forges and RE's to kill tanks alongside AV nades. I stopped using swarms because they wouldn't deal enough damage and all suits I tried using them with were too weak. Now that the assaults are buffed I feel much more comfortable running swarms on my minmatar assault rather than a minmatar logi. My Caldari Assault might even work better as the extra high slot would be easier to fit multiple damage mods. Heck, maybe I just need to figure out a good minmatar commando fitting? I'm guessing the extra damage and reload speed helps a ton...but I don't know how I feel about now having AV grenades. _________________________________________________________________________________ But the point is, I've been seeing a lot of swarm launchers killing tanks recently and I'm slightly confused. Originally people were complaining about the changes to swarms in Charlie, but were they wrong about the reduction of missiles fired? Each missile now does more damage per hit, and light weapon damage mods were increased... So how do swarms feel? Are proto swarms necessary? Is proficiency the key to making them useful? Are they more of a finishing weapon now or is it better to use them alongside other AV? Does the suit make the weapon or can they be used effectively on any suit now? I'd like the community's opinion before I drop a few hundred sp on getting them to proto again. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 609	Posted - 2014.08.26 10:11:00 - [2] - Quote better at Militia, standard and advanced, what i heard about proto was they arnt happy that pro was nerfed. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Night 5talker 514 Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 289	Posted - 2014.08.26 10:15:00 - [3] - Quote I'll be uploading vids soon on my youtube channel about team work with swarms. We've had great success in denying whole areas to any vehicles and even chased vehicles back into the red line Gaming Freek DUST 514 YouTube Channel
Echo 1991 WarRavens Final Resolution. 414	Posted - 2014.08.26 10:57:00 - [4] - Quote Can fire faster and the only noticable difference in damage is at standard.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 609	Posted - 2014.08.26 11:02:00 - [5] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: The last time I used a swarm launcher was open beta. Ever since I got forge prof 4 I've pretty much only ever used forges and RE's to kill tanks alongside AV nades. I stopped using swarms because they wouldn't deal enough damage and all suits I tried using them with were too weak. Now that the assaults are buffed I feel much more comfortable running swarms on my minmatar assault rather than a minmatar logi. My Caldari Assault might even work better as the extra high slot would be easier to fit multiple damage mods. Heck, maybe I just need to figure out a good minmatar commando fitting? I'm guessing the extra damage and reload speed helps a ton...but I don't know how I feel about now having AV grenades. _________________________________________________________________________________ But the point is, I've been seeing a lot of swarm launchers killing tanks recently and I'm slightly confused. Originally people were complaining about the changes to swarms in Charlie, but were they wrong about the reduction of missiles fired? Each missile now does more damage per hit, and light weapon damage mods were increased... So how do swarms feel? Are proto swarms necessary? Is proficiency the key to making them useful? Are they more of a finishing weapon now or is it better to use them alongside other AV? Does the suit make the weapon or can they be used effectively on any suit now? I'd like the community's opinion before I drop a few hundred sp on getting them to proto again. id wait till delta speculation begins when they release notes n stuff on what is on the chopping block and whats getting buffed for both logi and commando.. as for commando im severly dissapointed on the whole abotu them.. stripped out heavy suits should be faster and lighter and have smaller hitbox then regular heavy.. hell assaults stomp commandos to hell latly [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Coleman Gray Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1171	Posted - 2014.08.26 11:10:00 - [6] - Quote I feel they are better since each missile does more damage where as the way they used to be two of the five or six missiles tended to hit walls ect. If Preparation is half of the battle and knowing is the other half, Then there is no need to fight.
Mregomies Beer For Evil Mercs 241	Posted - 2014.08.26 11:35:00 - [7] - Quote I like swarms (proto). It's the best way to milk some WP. Suomi, Finland, PERKELE! Logibro Logibro2
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1151	Posted - 2014.08.26 11:50:00 - [8] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: better at Militia, standard and advanced, what i heard about proto was they arnt happy that pro was nerfed. They lost 36 damage at proto, in exchange for much, much faster firing and the ability to 'disguise' what level of swarms you're shooting. Swarms are better, by a lot. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2138	Posted - 2014.08.26 11:55:00 - [9] - Quote alright heres the thing assauylt swarm launches are awesome now, DO NOT USE REGULAR SWARMS assaults have a buff to lock on time so a minmatar commando with proto assault swarms is absolutly devestating and OP as ****, but on every other suit assault swarms are balanced :P Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 1348	Posted - 2014.08.26 12:44:00 - [10] - Quote Minmmando with dual CBR-7s and REs (which I could also argue for Nanos) will ** some up. I don't always blap Infantry with a Forge Gun, but when I do, that is hilarious.

Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2140	Posted - 2014.08.26 12:52:00 - [11] - Quote RYN0CER0S wrote: Minmmando with dual CBR-7s and REs (which I could also argue for Nanos) will ** some ** up. use assault swarms instead... trust me Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1446	Posted - 2014.08.26 13:01:00 - [12] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: alright heres the thing assauylt swarm launches are awesome now, DO NOT USE REGULAR SWARMS assaults have a buff to lock on time so a minmatar commando with proto assault swarms is absolutly devestating and OP as ****, but on every other suit assault swarms are balanced :P less then 1 second lock time and a double stacking reload bonus alows it to pump out monster DPS against vehicles... its just that nobody has realised how awesome assault swarm launchers are now that they get a bonus to lock time instead of double lock ons I see nothing special about a 1.4 base lock on time. With skills just over 1 second.. The same as the regular variant, but with the added cost. Don't get me wrong, still way better than the Specialist variants. So, what exactly am I missing on the Assaults having such an awesome lock on time? Does my game deceive me? If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2141	Posted - 2014.08.26 13:17:00 - [13] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: alright heres the thing assauylt swarm launches are awesome now, DO NOT USE REGULAR SWARMS assaults have a buff to lock on time so a minmatar commando with proto assault swarms is absolutly devestating and OP as ****, but on every other suit assault swarms are balanced :P less then 1 second lock time and a double stacking reload bonus alows it to pump out monster DPS against vehicles... its just that nobody has realised how awesome assault swarm launchers are now that they get a bonus to lock time instead of double lock ons I see nothing special about a 1.4 base lock on time. With skills just over 1 second.. The same as the regular variant, but with the added cost. Don't get me wrong, still way better than the Specialist variants. So, what exactly am I missing on the Assaults having such an awesome lock on time? Does my game deceive me? faster lockon = more dps.... swarm launcher dps is cloged up by lockon times and reload times assault swarm + minmatar commando GREATLY lowers both those nearly doubling its dps everyone complains that assault dropships fly away before you can do enough damage to them... with assault swarms thats no longer true :P it also out DPSes tripple rep maddys its nearly a 30% dps increase... so essentially swarms were buffed by nearly 30% in the last hotfix Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
H0riz0n Unlimit Inner.Hell 161	Posted - 2014.08.26 13:31:00 - [14] - Quote 4 shot of wyrkomi are enough to kill a tank, add a casual Av granade and you got it Tanker since I was born -- Want back my blaster -- Madrugar 1125/6753 -- Reduce weakspot dimension
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1446	Posted - 2014.08.26 13:56:00 - [15] - Quote Quote: faster lockon = more dps.... swarm launcher dps is cloged up by lockon times and reload times assault swarm + minmatar commando GREATLY lowers both those nearly doubling its dps everyone complains that assault dropships fly away before you can do enough damage to them... with assault swarms thats no longer true :P it also out DPSes tripple rep maddys its nearly a 30% dps increase... so essentially swarms were buffed by nearly 30% in the last hotfix Minmando 5, Prof 4 Swarms here, I understand that. It must be too early for me to see the awesome lock time of the Assault Variant, because everywhere I look in game I see it at 1.4 seconds. Skills, that's 1.05. Problem being that's the same as the vanilla variant. Now, you can call stupid and noob as you've been calling other people in your forum post, or you can skip that because I give zero fucks about what you think. I tossed out a simple to look up fact. Until you bring a fact instead of little hearsay where the Assaults have some awesome .93 Lock on, or have better reload, you're just talking out your ass. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3369	Posted - 2014.08.26 14:24:00 - [16] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: The last time I used a swarm launcher was open beta. Ever since I got forge prof 4 I've pretty much only ever used forges and RE's to kill tanks alongside AV nades. I stopped using swarms because they wouldn't deal enough damage and all suits I tried using them with were too weak. Now that the assaults are buffed I feel much more comfortable running swarms on my minmatar assault rather than a minmatar logi. My Caldari Assault might even work better as the extra high slot would be easier to fit multiple damage mods. Heck, maybe I just need to figure out a good minmatar commando fitting? I'm guessing the extra damage and reload speed helps a ton...but I don't know how I feel about now having AV grenades. _________________________________________________________________________________ But the point is, I've been seeing a lot of swarm launchers killing tanks recently and I'm slightly confused. Originally people were complaining about the changes to swarms in Charlie, but were they wrong about the reduction of missiles fired? Each missile now does more damage per hit, and light weapon damage mods were increased... So how do swarms feel? Are proto swarms necessary? Is proficiency the key to making them useful? Are they more of a finishing weapon now or is it better to use them alongside other AV? Does the suit make the weapon or can they be used effectively on any suit now? I'd like the community's opinion before I drop a few hundred sp on getting them to proto again. The change to PRO is justified, but only by the small amount it was. The problem with swarms has and always been its damage progression, the difference in damage per volley varied far too greatly between tiers. MLT and STD were about as effective as using a chisel to demolish a high rise. The amount of effort for STD simoly wasn't worth the results. ADV while better was still lack-luster and was only really a threat to the tankers who got stuck or were to dum to retreat. AV had always been 'go PRO or go home' which is alot of potentially wasted SP, especially when things like no vehicles, other AVer's lack of WP, ease of death would all nullify that investment. Which especialy if your running Medium frames meant doing Infantry AV was practically unviable. However with hese changes to swarms we are now seeing more dedicated AVers, I don't just mean those who run to the supply depots to change as soon as they here an RDV, more people are playing AV primary roles, which is good for diversity. Plus with a supply depot those 3 blueberries you thought were uselss are suddenly in 'Anti-Armour' frontline fits, holding the line against vehicle attacks. Just a week ago I was on a Manus Peak Skirmish, against a stacked squad (while we still lost, mostly because A is b-atch to hold) between myself in ADV gear and 2 blueberries with STD/MLT we held of 5 LAV's, 2 Dropships, 9 HAV's and a light turret. The enemy tried everything from rushing in with LAV a co-ordinated HAV attack to simply dropping from the sky. Between me those 2 blueberries and few sentinels running close range Point defence, nothing got close, the stacked squad took to just puting a forger on the hill above us and taking potshots. Because between those 2 blueberries I could be confident they could hold the line against the vehicles and that my friend is a good thing. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
DontChimpOut Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 94	Posted - 2014.08.26 15:23:00 - [17] - Quote Night 5talker 514 wrote: I'll be uploading vids soon on my youtube channel about team work with swarms. We've had great success in denying whole areas to any vehicles and even chased vehicles back into the red line Teamwork with swarms? You must be from Europe. We can add new LP items, but we need to see FW participation numbers go up to make it worth our time. - CCP Dev
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4476	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:00:00 - [18] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Can fire faster and the only noticable difference in damage is at standard. Changes since Beta (offhand): * Range greatly reduced * Relative damage reduced * Relative speed reduced * Proto clip reduced from 5 to 3 * Faster fire interval * Slower target lock * Increased reserve ammo Opinion: Schwarma Launchers are generally effective at chasing away vehicles, sometimes for many seconds. They are capable of destroying vehicles when sync'd with friendly REs, forge or vehicle fire. Target Vehicles are sufficiently mobile to manage the Schwarma's threat level. Odds of escape decrease as number of Schwarmas increase, such that a single launcher poses minimal odds of destruction, two pose some risk of destruction, and three pose high risk of destruction (assumes simultaneous attacks against well-fit land tanks and sky tanks). - Pro(5) Schwarma Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 746	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:08:00 - [19] - Quote H0riz0n Unlimit wrote: 4 shot of wyrkomi are enough to kill a tank, add a casual Av granade and you got it Any tanker that sticks around for 4 Proto Swarm shots + an AV grenade without activating hardeners needs to stop using tanks.
Death Shadow117 New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 315	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:57:00 - [20] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: The last time I used a swarm launcher was open beta. Ever since I got forge prof 4 I've pretty much only ever used forges and RE's to kill tanks alongside AV nades. I stopped using swarms because they wouldn't deal enough damage and all suits I tried using them with were too weak. Now that the assaults are buffed I feel much more comfortable running swarms on my minmatar assault rather than a minmatar logi. My Caldari Assault might even work better as the extra high slot would be easier to fit multiple damage mods. Heck, maybe I just need to figure out a good minmatar commando fitting? I'm guessing the extra damage and reload speed helps a ton...but I don't know how I feel about now having AV grenades. _________________________________________________________________________________ But the point is, I've been seeing a lot of swarm launchers killing tanks recently and I'm slightly confused. Originally people were complaining about the changes to swarms in Charlie, but were they wrong about the reduction of missiles fired? Each missile now does more damage per hit, and light weapon damage mods were increased... So how do swarms feel? Are proto swarms necessary? Is proficiency the key to making them useful? Are they more of a finishing weapon now or is it better to use them alongside other AV? Does the suit make the weapon or can they be used effectively on any suit now? I'd like the community's opinion before I drop a few hundred sp on getting them to proto again. Why not use a min starter fit and put the swarms with 3 damage mods on? About proto idk but i use adv on my min AA starter fit and it works fine. Why?

Atiim 11644	Posted - 2014.08.26 18:21:00 - [21] - Quote I'm still running "tests" so I'll wait until later to officially comment. But I am seeing a rise in Swarm Launcher user population. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2022	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:02:00 - [22] - Quote Death Shadow117 wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: snip I'd like the community's opinion before I drop a few hundred sp on getting them to proto again. Why not use a min starter fit and put the swarms with 3 damage mods on? About proto idk but i use adv on my min AA starter fit and it works fine. I've been wondering effect the buff to Light Damage Mods was going to have on Swarm Launcher use. It's just speculation on my part but affordable AV fits on assaults/commandos are looking sexier. Never mind the added bonus of using an ADV SL to save CPU/PG for a better secondary weapon. I have a lot of respect for Classic Logis. New Eden could use more Healers. Forums > Game: Biggest understatement ever
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 791	Posted - 2014.08.26 22:55:00 - [23] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: alright heres the thing assauylt swarm launches are awesome now, DO NOT USE REGULAR SWARMS assaults have a buff to lock on time so a minmatar commando with proto assault swarms is absolutly devestating and OP as ****, but on every other suit assault swarms are balanced :P less then 1 second lock time and a double stacking reload bonus alows it to pump out monster DPS against vehicles... its just that nobody has realised how awesome assault swarm launchers are now that they get a bonus to lock time instead of double lock ons Troll? Or did I miss something? YouTube
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4494	Posted - 2014.08.26 23:03:00 - [24] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: alright heres the thing assauylt swarm launches are awesome now, DO NOT USE REGULAR SWARMS assaults have a buff to lock on time so a minmatar commando with proto assault swarms is absolutly devestating and OP as ****, but on every other suit assault swarms are balanced :P less then 1 second lock time and a double stacking reload bonus alows it to pump out monster DPS against vehicles... its just that nobody has realised how awesome assault swarm launchers are now that they get a bonus to lock time instead of double lock ons Troll? Or did I miss something? Assuming troll. Doesn't make sense. Haven't observed Assault Swarms in killfeeds. Testing now ... (Ishukone Assault Swarm Launcher) Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4494	Posted - 2014.08.26 23:16:00 - [25] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: alright heres the thing assauylt swarm launches are awesome now, DO NOT USE REGULAR SWARMS assaults have a buff to lock on time so a minmatar commando with proto assault swarms is absolutly devestating and OP as ****, but on every other suit assault swarms are balanced :P less then 1 second lock time and a double stacking reload bonus alows it to pump out monster DPS against vehicles... its just that nobody has realised how awesome assault swarm launchers are now that they get a bonus to lock time instead of double lock ons Troll? Or did I miss something? Assuming troll. Doesn't make sense. Haven't observed Assault Swarms in killfeeds. Testing now ... (Ishukone Assault Swarm Launcher) Protofits says ... Wiyrkomi - 1.05 seconds Assault - 1.05 seconds Specialist - 1.47 seconds In-game test says ... Wiyrkomi lock-on = Assault lock-on = Claim is Troll On a positive note ... I did kill what appeared to be a full-health militia LAV with 2 volleys of Pro(5) Proto Assault Swarms. I swear it usually takes three. Maybe it was wounded. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4691	Posted - 2014.08.27 01:12:00 - [26] - Quote Testing it myself the Assault swarm launcher has a faster lock-on than the standard variants. IGNORE THE STATS PEOPLE, go into a battle and try the ***** thing. You will be suprised. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!**
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4508	Posted - 2014.08.27 01:21:00 - [27] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Testing it myself the Assault swarm launcher has a faster lock-on than the standard variants. IGNORE THE STATS PEOPLE, go into a battle and try the ******* thing. You will be suprised. Just tested an hour or so ago. Failed to detect a measurable difference between Pro Std and Pro Assault. Which model are you using? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 3199	Posted - 2014.08.27 01:25:00 - [28] - Quote Night 5talker 514 wrote: I'll be uploading vids soon on my youtube channel about team work with swarms. We've had great success in denying whole areas to any vehicles and even chased vehicles back into the red line We all know teamwork is OP. How well would a lone swarmer fend off the same vehicles you have? Not very.
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 371	Posted - 2014.08.27 04:08:00 - [29] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: better at Militia, standard and advanced, what i heard about proto was they arnt happy that pro was nerfed. This. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
DontChimpOut Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 97	Posted - 2014.08.27 14:32:00 - [30] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: H0riz0n Unlimit wrote: 4 shot of wyrkomi are enough to kill a tank, add a casual Av granade and you got it Any tanker that sticks around for 4 Proto Swarm shots + an AV grenade without activating hardeners needs to stop using tanks. And I bet that's the majority of what you all terrible infantry on here cannot destroy, people that don't have a clue as to what's going on, who only have militia fits and maybe a standard rail. Infantry constantly has tanks nerfed to deal with those bottom-rung guys that have little to no skill points invested, and maybe a 7-digit ISK account. Then when they go up against experienced tankers, well... it'll take half the team to destroy those guys. We can add new LP items, but we need to see FW participation numbers go up to make it worth our time. - CCP Dev



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