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The Scrambler Rifle - A fair assessment

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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1104	Posted - 2014.08.21 00:45:00 - [31] - Quote diablo gamekeeper wrote: Well, the SR really doesn't need a ROF nerf, its a skill weapon . Can someone tell me the definition of " skill weapon " , because it doesn't take skill to spam shots at others and that's what scramblers do . I've seen people state that swarms were skill-less , as well as sniper rifles , forges and HAV's . I've seen this term thrown around a lot and still can't understand what weapons that term applies to . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 808	Posted - 2014.08.21 00:52:00 - [32] - Quote Atiim wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: High DPS is the only thing that is good about ScR. Everything else is a drawback. Armor tanked with 900+ armor Heavies- unkillable without an overheat even with proto Amarr Assault. You ca't even engage tow enemies without risking an overheat. Armor Tanked heavies being unkillable without an O.H isn't really special. I've had a Sentinel in PC survive a full clip from my Boundless CR (20m away) though he had next to no HP left. Though I think having long range and charging capabilities are both advantages. Anmol Singh wrote: Overheat is the Balance. I don't know about you but ScR overheats like a Bch without and Amarr Assault. IF you want to lower the RoF below 400, you better remove the overheat and buff damage to 100 per shot. Considering how 400RPM is about 7 shots a second, you'd dealing 700DPS with absolutely no heat sink. That would make it even more broken than the TAR from Uprising 1.0. Anmol Singh wrote: Fun Fact: The TAR right now has a DPS of 800. I don't see you QQing about the TAR. Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle: DPS vs. Armor: 546HP/s DPS vs. Shields: 667.3HP/s I don't enjoy being lied to, so this fact was not fun. http://i.imgur.com/5T00rAE.png *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Atiim 11544	Posted - 2014.08.21 00:58:00 - [33] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: http://i.imgur.com/5T00rAE.png That can't be right. Just look at the math: *800RPM / 60 = 13.333 \| 72.8 = 606.333HP/s** Come to think of it ProtoFits isn't correct either. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4341	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:00:00 - [34] - Quote In Favor of ScR Fire Rate cap (no reason to exceed human limits) Opposed to any/all ScR buffs (it is ridiculous as is, and you know it) - Prof IV ScR Edit: On the topic, also in favor of changes to Fine Rifle hipfire dispersion: * RR and ScR - significant increase to hipfire dispersion * CR and AR - slight increase to hipfire dispersion Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 119	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:11:00 - [35] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Wit a RoF of 368 RPM you will kill the scrambler rifle off. Don't be stupid please. Recently the Tac AR received a RoF buff that made it just about use-able again. The Scrambler should certainly not lose too much RoF if much at all. As per usual.....not a force for reasonable balancing on these here forums...no..... crazy nerf threads as per usual. No wonder this game is going downhill fast. Would you care to explain your reasoning? It will fire 1 round slower per second for most people, unless of course your shooting at nearly 9 rounds a second as being proposed by some people, or would you like me to actually start calculating the maximum DPS's? Do you ***** not understand that the DPS listed is not the DPS that will happen, ever, with semiautomatics? If it only shot ant 368 rpm, it would oversample like a **********, just like the ScP does since the Nerf. I understand you want semiautos to be "fair for everyone" but that just isn't part of the nature of semiautos. 525 rpm, minimum. Plenty of people, myself included will still oversample occasionally at that.
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 808	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:11:00 - [36] - Quote Atiim wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: http://i.imgur.com/5T00rAE.png That can't be right, just look at the math: *800RPM / 60 = 13.333 \| 72.8 = 606.333HP/s Come to think of it ProtoFits isn't correct either. IDK but I'm going off this final balancing post by Rattati. Also, it's a DPS thread. 793.8(ADV) and 831.6(PRO) the DPS Sagaris lover!!!** Commando <3
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2136	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:12:00 - [37] - Quote Atiim wrote: Nice follow up post from earlier. I'd also like to add, that the Scrambler Rifle is far too effective in CQC for a weapon which is designed to be used at Semi-Long range. As a solution, I'd suggest increasing the dispersion while hip-fired, but also increase the scope's Zoom Fidelity to encourage use at longer ranges. This makes it weaker at what it's not supposed to do, while also making it stronger at it's intended purpose. In my opinion, this is a reasonable compromise. +1 Atiim You stole the words right outta my mouth "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Atiim 11545	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:14:00 - [38] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Atiim wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: http://i.imgur.com/5T00rAE.png That can't be right, just look at the math: *800RPM / 60 = 13.333 \| 72.8 = 606.333HP/s** Come to think of it ProtoFits isn't correct either. IDK but I'm going off this final balancing post by Rattati. The stat is incorrect, so any reference to it is nullifies your argument. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 808	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:15:00 - [39] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Atiim wrote: Nice follow up post from earlier. I'd also like to add, that the Scrambler Rifle is far too effective in CQC for a weapon which is designed to be used at Semi-Long range. As a solution, I'd suggest increasing the dispersion while hip-fired, but also increase the scope's Zoom Fidelity to encourage use at longer ranges. This makes it weaker at what it's not supposed to do, while also making it stronger at it's intended purpose. In my opinion, this is a reasonable compromise. +1 Atiim You stole the words right outta my mouth Do you really want to be killed from 80m away with a weapon with DPS heigher than the clouds? *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 808	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:18:00 - [40] - Quote Atiim wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Atiim wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: http://i.imgur.com/5T00rAE.png That can't be right, just look at the math: *800RPM / 60 = 13.333 \| 72.8 = 606.333HP/s Come to think of it ProtoFits isn't correct either. IDK but I'm going off this final balancing post by Rattati. The stat is incorrect, so any reference to it is nullifies your argument. Where are your stats coming from? I checked Protofits. The damage per round is approximately 83.72. Sagaris lover!!!** Commando <3

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2137	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:19:00 - [41] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Atiim wrote: Nice follow up post from earlier. I'd also like to add, that the Scrambler Rifle is far too effective in CQC for a weapon which is designed to be used at Semi-Long range. As a solution, I'd suggest increasing the dispersion while hip-fired, but also increase the scope's Zoom Fidelity to encourage use at longer ranges. This makes it weaker at what it's not supposed to do, while also making it stronger at it's intended purpose. In my opinion, this is a reasonable compromise. +1 Atiim You stole the words right outta my mouth Do you really want to be killed from 80m away with a weapon with DPS heigher than the clouds? Id prefer it to being killed at 3 meters away while trying to NK a 1k HP assault to death with a weapon that does the same exact thing at 70+ meters... Reduce RoF to something reasonable-- 400ish maybe 450 and give it more scope zoom fidelity and a much wider hip fire "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Atiim 11545	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:20:00 - [42] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Where are your stats coming from? I checked Protofits. The damage per round is approximately 83.72. It says the base damage is 72.8HP per shot. edit: It appears as if you hit the "All Skills" button and are sampling it with Proficiency V. In that case, the DPS is 697.66HP/s. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 119	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:24:00 - [43] - Quote Duvolle Tactical has an achievable DPS of 606Gàô at PRO,make the ScR have an achievable DPS of roughly the same. 600ish. To have exactly 600 DPS at PRO(which I think is fair, all things considered) the ScR should have a RoF of exactly 503.497. Do this. P.S. This was a fair assessment. Don't compare it to weapons of a different variant.
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 808	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:26:00 - [44] - Quote Atiim wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Where are your stats coming from? I checked Protofits. The damage per round is approximately 83.72. It says the base damage is 72.8HP per shot. edit: It appears as if you hit the "All Skills" button and are sampling it with Proficiency V. In that case, the DPS is 697.66HP/s. Whatever, it's not like anyone can actually use that 701 RoF without a modded controller. The only problem I see with the ScR is the heat build up reduces the faster you fire. It should be a set value for anyshot. Maybe faster heat buildup the faster you fire. This would discourage modded controller. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 808	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:27:00 - [45] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Duvolle Tactical has an achievable DPS of 606Gàô at PRO,make the ScR have an achievable DPS of roughly the same. 600ish. To have exactly 600 DPS at PRO(which I think is fair, all things considered) the ScR should have a RoF of exactly 503.497. Do this. The ScR has overheat, TAR doesn't. 600 minimum. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Atiim 11546	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:30:00 - [46] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Atiim wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Where are your stats coming from? I checked Protofits. The damage per round is approximately 83.72. It says the base damage is 72.8HP per shot. edit: It appears as if you hit the "All Skills" button and are sampling it with Proficiency V. In that case, the DPS is 697.66HP/s. Whatever, it's not like anyone can actually use that 701 RoF without a modded controller. The only problem I see with the ScR is the heat build up reduces the faster you fire. It should be a set value for anyshot. Maybe faster heat buildup the faster you fire. This would discourage modded controller. It's not that the heat build-up reduces the faster you fire, it's that the Heat Sink is based on a "Cost per Second" value, similar to a Laser Rifle. Because of this, how many shots you can get off before overheating depends on your ability to spam the fire button. That's why Modded Controllers and SCRs are so powerful. You overheat at the same time as everyone else, but can fire a ridiculously higher amount of shots before doing so. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 121	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:31:00 - [47] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Duvolle Tactical has an achievable DPS of 606Gàô at PRO,make the ScR have an achievable DPS of roughly the same. 600ish. To have exactly 600 DPS at PRO(which I think is fair, all things considered) the ScR should have a RoF of exactly 503.497. Do this. The ScR has overheat, TAR doesn't. 600 minimum. I honestly think 600 is too much. Almost nobody can do that with their fingers. The trick is to find a balancing point. A place where modded controllers aren't overwhelmingly good, but yet very few people can oversample it regularly.
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 809	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:33:00 - [48] - Quote Are you people complaining because the ScR is actually really good on an Amarr Assault or are you complaining because it's OP and it doesn't matter what suit it's on. From personal experience, the ScR isn't the best weapon. The ScR struggles like a dog to kill armor suits. The Armor DPS of ScR is 672.94 and that is if you can achieve the 706 RoF which the normal human cannot. If you want to nerf it, nerf it so it's RoF to 600. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 809	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:35:00 - [49] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Duvolle Tactical has an achievable DPS of 606Gàô at PRO,make the ScR have an achievable DPS of roughly the same. 600ish. To have exactly 600 DPS at PRO(which I think is fair, all things considered) the ScR should have a RoF of exactly 503.497. Do this. The ScR has overheat, TAR doesn't. 600 minimum. I honestly think 600 is too much. Almost nobody can do that with their fingers. The trick is to find a balancing point. A place where modded controllers aren't overwhelmingly good, but yet very few people can oversample it regularly. I can achieve 600 but It's dangerous. It's hard to moniter the heat at 600 which is a disadvantage on it's own but sometimes it is a life saver (like when you're low on HP and someones around the corner) Shayz can do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq_yXzYl0qM&list=UUV5dxlFv_FeW8z1WfwlRFXg *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 484	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:36:00 - [50] - Quote Arcturis Vanguard wrote: Seriously? The weapon has been around for the longest time. Why are people, now, starting to talk about rebalancing the weapon? Nothing has changed other then suit adjustments to make The assault class more viable then previous builds. 1.0 Uprising - 1.6 Uprising = AR kicked its ass 1.7 - 1.8 = Rail Rifle and CR kicked its ass Hotfix Bravo = Rebalanced the CR RR and AR to be relatively evenly traded thanks to Rattatai I could pull it up but if you google search about the scrambler rifle being OP you will see that actually players have been complaining about it ever since the TAC AR nerf saying why not make them both similar in stats since they are the same style of weapon? Which in that thread and has been with every case until now an issue of: AR, RR, CR is OP who cares about the ScR. That's no longer the case though. As I've said before, I think if the dispersion is increased a bit, not as much as the TAC AR but something similar along with dropping the ROF to 500 the weapon will be in a more balanced state. With those adjustments, it will still have higher damage, larger magazine, less kick, and less dispersion along with have its charge up ability to turn into a short range SR. The TAC AR takes a prof 4 in assault rifles and has an 18 round magazine. The Scrambler with prof 4 takes 18 shots to overheat (You can stop at 17 though that's what I do) and will still have 28 shots before reloading if you do stop at 17 shots.

Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 809	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:37:00 - [51] - Quote Atiim wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Atiim wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Where are your stats coming from? I checked Protofits. The damage per round is approximately 83.72. It says the base damage is 72.8HP per shot. edit: It appears as if you hit the "All Skills" button and are sampling it with Proficiency V. In that case, the DPS is 697.66HP/s. Whatever, it's not like anyone can actually use that 701 RoF without a modded controller. The only problem I see with the ScR is the heat build up reduces the faster you fire. It should be a set value for anyshot. Maybe faster heat buildup the faster you fire. This would discourage modded controller. It's not that the heat build-up reduces the faster you fire, it's that the Heat Sink is based on a "Cost per Second" value, similar to a Laser Rifle. Because of this, how many shots you can get off before overheating depends on your ability to spam the fire button. That's why Modded Controllers and SCRs are so powerful. You overheat at the same time as everyone else, but can fire a ridiculously higher amount of shots before doing so. Then let's change it so it's a set value per ever shot fired. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 484	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:39:00 - [52] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Duvolle Tactical has an achievable DPS of 606Gàô at PRO,make the ScR have an achievable DPS of roughly the same. 600ish. To have exactly 600 DPS at PRO(which I think is fair, all things considered) the ScR should have a RoF of exactly 503.497. Do this. The ScR has overheat, TAR doesn't. 600 minimum. I honestly think 600 is too much. Almost nobody can do that with their fingers. The trick is to find a balancing point. A place where modded controllers aren't overwhelmingly good, but yet very few people can oversample it regularly. I can achieve 600 but It's dangerous. It's hard to moniter the heat at 600 which is a disadvantage on it's own but sometimes it is a life saver (like when you're low on HP and someones around the corner) Shayz can do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq_yXzYl0qM&list=UUV5dxlFv_FeW8z1WfwlRFXg Another reason why I hate the inclusion of kb/m on a ps3 exclusive... but I digress. I'd like to see shayz get anywhere near that with a trigger button. Misleading for him to say he has a fast trigger finger. More like he has a fast finger tapper.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 181	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:48:00 - [53] - Quote the op - a fair assessment www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQx490A7zDU deader than A line flares with pockets in the knees
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 809	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:48:00 - [54] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Duvolle Tactical has an achievable DPS of 606Gàô at PRO,make the ScR have an achievable DPS of roughly the same. 600ish. To have exactly 600 DPS at PRO(which I think is fair, all things considered) the ScR should have a RoF of exactly 503.497. Do this. The ScR has overheat, TAR doesn't. 600 minimum. I honestly think 600 is too much. Almost nobody can do that with their fingers. The trick is to find a balancing point. A place where modded controllers aren't overwhelmingly good, but yet very few people can oversample it regularly. I can achieve 600 but It's dangerous. It's hard to moniter the heat at 600 which is a disadvantage on it's own but sometimes it is a life saver (like when you're low on HP and someones around the corner) Shayz can do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq_yXzYl0qM&list=UUV5dxlFv_FeW8z1WfwlRFXg Another reason why I hate the inclusion of kb/m on a ps3 exclusive... but I digress. I'd like to see shayz get anywhere near that with a trigger button. Misleading for him to say he has a fast trigger finger. More like he has a fast finger tapper. I use controller but I mean I can get 600 as in I get my hand in Trigger finger mode. (I actually use this when fighting heavies) but I have choose between aiming or strafing. I cannot use the left thumb during trigger mode. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 856	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:50:00 - [55] - Quote Don't forget the SCR has the worst damage profile. With all the armor stackers out there an 80% reduction in damage causes many SCR user to overheat or have to switch to sidearm. No other main weapon forces you to have to stop firing or switch to sidearm like the SCR does. The CR is soooooo much easier to use than a SCR. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Vell0cet Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 2180	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:52:00 - [56] - Quote You're assuming that a player can consistently stop firing exactly one shot before overheating, which is ridiculous and unrealistic. Most players will stop well short of overheat. And most won't get that consistent RoF everytime. That's a he'll of a lot harder than holding down the trigger on an AR. I'd like to see CCP implement a turbo detection mechanism for all weapons (if the fire interval has 0 variability) then you suicide and are booted from the match. It's also reasonable to make heat buildup based on number of shots fired and not time-based. I'm opposed to radically altering the gun for players using it without abusing turbo controllers though. Best PvE idea ever!
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 631	Posted - 2014.08.21 02:16:00 - [57] - Quote Okay, I don't really see your argument but alright. Go make some actual graphs, then graph yor proposed changes, then tell me why exactly you chose to compare it to the Duvolle as opposed to the Tactical. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 410	Posted - 2014.08.21 02:33:00 - [58] - Quote Assault scrambler is doodoo butter now...bring it back pre Charlie.... Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
Ace Boone Pure Evil. 237	Posted - 2014.08.21 03:06:00 - [59] - Quote Heh, funny, most of the people complaining about it are people I regularly wreck with an advanced amarr in pubs. It's great against shields, meh against armor. The hip fire is really good because of auto aim, it's shaky when you aim down the sights. 7 shots per second is actually very viable and very easy to land almost every one of those shots. A charge + burst afterwards pretty much OHKs any suit except a brick tanked heavy. It's not the scrambler, it's the Amarr assault. The overheat is a ***** without the assault suit. Only loyal to the republic.
Cody Sietz Evzones 3880	Posted - 2014.08.21 03:23:00 - [60] - Quote ScR users "the weapons not OP because nobody could ever tap the button that fast!" Other people "then let's nerf the RoF so it's not abused by jerks" ScR users again "...no" "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire



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