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Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3217	Posted - 2014.08.19 05:24:00 - [1] - Quote Who can see that ScRs are OP? People ***** and whine about CRs and RRs all day, but I've never been three shotted by a CR before. I hear you say it takes skill to use. Bull. Just spam the R1 trigger until the enemy is dead. It does so much damage you don't have to worry about overheating before they die. Just the other day, I ran up behind a PRO Amarr Assault while I was in my STD Minmatar heavy frame. I shot him full on in the back with my HMG, about 10m. He didn't even try to strafe, he simply turned around and quadruple shotted me. He still had half armor when I died. My ~1000 eHP gone in about one second. When I use this thing, I can one shot half of the enemies I encounter. Another quarter of them can be finished off with one or two non charged shots. The last quarter are heavies, and all you need to do then is double charge shot them from a distance. The only thing that annoys more than the fact this thing is so powerful, is the fact that people still argue that it isn't. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 215	Posted - 2014.08.19 05:29:00 - [2] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Who can see that ScRs are OP? People ***** and whine about CRs and RRs all day, but I've never been three shotted by a CR before. I hear you say it takes skill to use. Bull. Just spam the R1 trigger until the enemy is dead. It does so much damage you don't have to worry about overheating before they die. Just the other day, I ran up behind a PRO Amarr Assault while I was in my STD Minmatar heavy frame. I shot him full on in the back with my HMG, about 10m. He didn't even try to strafe, he simply turned around and quadruple shotted me. He still had half armor when I died. My ~1000 eHP gone in about one second. When I use this thing, I can one shot half of the enemies I encounter. Another quarter of them can be finished off with one or two non charged shots. The last quarter are heavies, and all you need to do then is double charge shot them from a distance. The only thing that annoys more than the fact this thing is so powerful, is the fact that people still argue that it isn't. It is the ability to stack damage mods on armor suits because they don't need the high slots for their armor suit to function, shield suits needs both the highs and the lows for a effective shield setup. Shield suits are sacrificing alot more to stack damage mods than armor. Compare that with the damage profile of the scrambler and you have the reason why some people will call it OP.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 100	Posted - 2014.08.19 05:41:00 - [3] - Quote Would you share with us the ~1000eHP fit in question?
Andris Kronis Legio DXIV 71	Posted - 2014.08.19 05:44:00 - [4] - Quote It's a pretty easy fix, reduce rpm to 400 instead of 700+, brings the dps down to a reasonable amount and no amount of button/macro spamming can give the scrambler rifle an OP advantage. "Corporation slogan coming to a sig near you"
Vell0cet Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 2162	Posted - 2014.08.19 05:59:00 - [5] - Quote Andris Kronis wrote: It's a pretty easy fix, reduce rpm to 400 instead of 700+, brings the dps down to a reasonable amount and no amount of button/macro spamming can give the scrambler rifle an OP advantage. I think 480 RPM cap is ideal. It's pretty-much the upper limit on the rate a human can spam the trigger, anything faster than that is probably being "mechanically enhanced." Best PvE idea ever!
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 4044	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:01:00 - [6] - Quote So your mad your standard heavy didn't insta gib an assault Ak.0 (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
taxi bastard uptown456 Dark Taboo 212	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:16:00 - [7] - Quote i have never used a scrambler on a ammar assault. but i do have scrambler to proficiency 4. i would say it does a bit too much DPS but the drawback of overheat is clear. IMO overheat should be linked to shots fired not time. for the ammar assault i am not sure how much extra potential shots you can get out of it so i can't really comment on that multiplier affect.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3218	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:16:00 - [8] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Would you share with us the ~1000eHP fit in question? I assume you want shields/armor. 543/462. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3218	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:19:00 - [9] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: So your mad your standard heavy didn't insta gib an assault Ak.0 Are you trying to suggest that a STD suit that gets the drop on a PRO suit STILL shouldn't be able to beat them, even if the weapon held by the STD is a CQC weapon, and the weapon held by the PRO is a long range weapon, when the two are separated by about 10m? SP Sinks? Fixed.
rithu Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo 100	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:21:00 - [10] - Quote So...u want your little heavy to kill a proto medium suit without effort ?

Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3218	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:24:00 - [11] - Quote rithu wrote: So...u want your little heavy to kill a proto medium suit without effort ? Logi Bro wrote: Are you trying to suggest that a STD suit that gets the drop on a PRO suit STILL shouldn't be able to beat them, even if the weapon held by the STD is a CQC weapon, and the weapon held by the PRO is a long range weapon, when the two are separated by about 10m? SP Sinks? Fixed.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 101	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:26:00 - [12] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Would you share with us the ~1000eHP fit in question? I assume you want shields/armor. 543/462. Alright. That was pretty much what I was expecting. With math, I can conclude that the PRO Am assault shot you at least 3 times in the head, with one of those three shots being the charged shot. Whether or not the 4th shot was in the head is unknown, but considering that the other three were, it is very likely.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 4046	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:37:00 - [13] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So your mad your standard heavy didn't insta gib an assault Ak.0 Are you trying to suggest that a STD suit that gets the drop on a PRO suit STILL shouldn't be able to beat them, even if the weapon held by the STD is a CQC weapon, and the weapon held by the PRO is a long range weapon, when the two are separated by about 10m? No, I've done it plenty of times but what I am saying is that you shouldn't be surprised that you lost to an 1000+ armor buffer like most Ak.0's fit. And to say you shouldn't die to a long range weapon in cqc is kinda stupid when you have a large hit box 10m close. No amount of strafing would of saved you. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 4048	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:42:00 - [14] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Would you share with us the ~1000eHP fit in question? I assume you want shields/armor. 543/462. Alright. That was pretty much what I was expecting. With math, I can conclude that the PRO Am assault shot you at least 3 times in the head, with one of those three shots being the charged shot. Whether or not the 4th shot was in the head is unknown, but considering that the other three were, it is very likely. Keep in mind, that if those shots were not in the head, you would have been very likely to win. If your 10m away from a enemy with a Scr It'd be a death wish to use a charged shot that only does 3x the dmg of a normal shot. Plus in the time it takes you to charge a more experienced user would of gotten 3-5 shots off. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 197	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:42:00 - [15] - Quote Even the charged shot from a bpo SCR wuth no points in it erases shields, funny as fuk
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 102	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:48:00 - [16] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Would you share with us the ~1000eHP fit in question? I assume you want shields/armor. 543/462. Alright. That was pretty much what I was expecting. With math, I can conclude that the PRO Am assault shot you at least 3 times in the head, with one of those three shots being the charged shot. Whether or not the 4th shot was in the head is unknown, but considering that the other three were, it is very likely. Keep in mind, that if those shots were not in the head, you would have been very likely to win. If your 10m away from a enemy with a Scr It'd be a death wish to use a charged shot that only does 3x the dmg of a normal shot. Plus in the time it takes you to charge a more experienced user would of gotten 3-5 shots off. Unless he already had the shot charged before Logi Bro snuck up on him... Also, I'm not saying that what the ScR user did was optimal, I'm just pointing out what likely happened. It worked for him, apparently.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3219	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:48:00 - [17] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So your mad your standard heavy didn't insta gib an assault Ak.0 Are you trying to suggest that a STD suit that gets the drop on a PRO suit STILL shouldn't be able to beat them, even if the weapon held by the STD is a CQC weapon, and the weapon held by the PRO is a long range weapon, when the two are separated by about 10m? No, I've done it plenty of times but what I am saying is that you shouldn't be surprised that you lost to an 1000+ armor buffer like most Ak.0's fit. And to say you shouldn't die to a long range weapon in cqc is kinda stupid when you have a large hit box 10m close. No amount of strafing would of saved you. What I am getting from your post is that you think everything is perfectly balanced if PRO suits can win in just about any scenario against STD gear. I wonder why our NPE is so bad. And, in the end, you miss the point of my post. That was just one scenario that popped out in my memory. The point is that the ScR is over-the-top. High damage, high RoF, tight hip-fire dispersion, great range. ONE of those things needs removal, preferably the hipfire. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3221	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:50:00 - [18] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Would you share with us the ~1000eHP fit in question? I assume you want shields/armor. 543/462. Alright. That was pretty much what I was expecting. With math, I can conclude that the PRO Am assault shot you at least 3 times in the head, with one of those three shots being the charged shot. Whether or not the 4th shot was in the head is unknown, but considering that the other three were, it is very likely. Keep in mind, that if those shots were not in the head, you would have been very likely to win. I'm curious to know, are you considering proficiency/damage mods? SP Sinks? Fixed.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7307	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:52:00 - [19] - Quote No I've been saying this for a while but no one tends to care. I'm fat too busy trying to get my Plasma Rifle up to par and Gallente Assault Bonus not being **** to be honest. Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 102	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:56:00 - [20] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So your mad your standard heavy didn't insta gib an assault Ak.0 Are you trying to suggest that a STD suit that gets the drop on a PRO suit STILL shouldn't be able to beat them, even if the weapon held by the STD is a CQC weapon, and the weapon held by the PRO is a long range weapon, when the two are separated by about 10m? No, I've done it plenty of times but what I am saying is that you shouldn't be surprised that you lost to an 1000+ armor buffer like most Ak.0's fit. And to say you shouldn't die to a long range weapon in cqc is kinda stupid when you have a large hit box 10m close. No amount of strafing would of saved you. What I am getting from your post is that you think everything is perfectly balanced if PRO suits can win in just about any scenario against STD gear. I wonder why our NPE is so bad. And, in the end, you miss the point of my post. That was just one scenario that popped out in my memory. The point is that the ScR is over-the-top. High damage, high RoF, tight hip-fire dispersion, great range. ONE of those things needs removal, preferably the hipfire. Meh. It has great stats compared to the other rifles, but it also has great drawbacks compared to the other rifles. I've never been super excited about ScRs (was more of a hobby for me than something I really got into). However, pretty much any bias I had about any weapon in this game is gone, due to me having biomass awhile ago. From an outsider perspective, the only real issue with the ScR is that it can fire too fast. 705 RPM is well beyond what anyone can achieve. I personally think its RoF should be dropped to a flat 525.

Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 103	Posted - 2014.08.19 07:00:00 - [21] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Would you share with us the ~1000eHP fit in question? I assume you want shields/armor. 543/462. Alright. That was pretty much what I was expecting. With math, I can conclude that the PRO Am assault shot you at least 3 times in the head, with one of those three shots being the charged shot. Whether or not the 4th shot was in the head is unknown, but considering that the other three were, it is very likely. Keep in mind, that if those shots were not in the head, you would have been very likely to win. I'm curious to know, are you considering proficiency/damage mods? If they had Proficiency 5 and a couple o CXf damage mods, it would be possible that 2/4 shots were body shots. There was a charged headshot in their at some point, as that is the only explanation for losing 1000HP in 4 shots.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 4051	Posted - 2014.08.19 07:09:00 - [22] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So your mad your standard heavy didn't insta gib an assault Ak.0 Are you trying to suggest that a STD suit that gets the drop on a PRO suit STILL shouldn't be able to beat them, even if the weapon held by the STD is a CQC weapon, and the weapon held by the PRO is a long range weapon, when the two are separated by about 10m? No, I've done it plenty of times but what I am saying is that you shouldn't be surprised that you lost to an 1000+ armor buffer like most Ak.0's fit. And to say you shouldn't die to a long range weapon in cqc is kinda stupid when you have a large hit box 10m close. No amount of strafing would of saved you. What I am getting from your post is that you think everything is perfectly balanced if PRO suits can win in just about any scenario against STD gear. I wonder why our NPE is so bad. And, in the end, you miss the point of my post. That was just one scenario that popped out in my memory. The point is that the ScR is over-the-top. High damage, high RoF, tight hip-fire dispersion, great range. ONE of those things needs removal, preferably the hipfire. No I don't, but it's pretty obvious it's the way that it is. But sure go ahead and take away the tight hip fire it'll make it all the better in cqc. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 4051	Posted - 2014.08.19 07:12:00 - [23] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Would you share with us the ~1000eHP fit in question? I assume you want shields/armor. 543/462. Alright. That was pretty much what I was expecting. With math, I can conclude that the PRO Am assault shot you at least 3 times in the head, with one of those three shots being the charged shot. Whether or not the 4th shot was in the head is unknown, but considering that the other three were, it is very likely. Keep in mind, that if those shots were not in the head, you would have been very likely to win. I'm curious to know, are you considering proficiency/damage mods? If they had Proficiency 5 and a couple o CXf damage mods, it would be possible that 2/4 shots were body shots. There was a charged headshot in their at some point, as that is the only explanation for losing 1000HP in 4 shots. He said this was from memory leaving one to believe that it was a while ago I don't know about you but I sure as hell wouldn't remember how many shots I pumped into some poor sob. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 103	Posted - 2014.08.19 07:20:00 - [24] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: He said this was from memory leaving one to believe that it was a while ago I don't know about you but I sure as hell wouldn't remember how many shots I pumped into some poor sob. True. LB here might have been over(under?) exaggerating a bit, and the Amassault could have very well fired 12 shots. Who's to know I guess...
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3221	Posted - 2014.08.19 07:36:00 - [25] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: No I don't, but it's pretty obvious it's the way that it is. But sure go ahead and take away the tight hip fire it'll make it all the better in cqc. Yes, because when you fire ten shots while hipfiring and only 2 hit because the dispersion cone is so wide, you do so much better. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 4051	Posted - 2014.08.19 07:38:00 - [26] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: No I don't, but it's pretty obvious it's the way that it is. But sure go ahead and take away the tight hip fire it'll make it all the better in cqc. Yes, because when you fire ten shots while hipfiring and only 2 hit because the dispersion cone is so wide, you do so much better. The hmg seems to do just fine :D (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Andris Kronis Legio DXIV 71	Posted - 2014.08.19 07:51:00 - [27] - Quote Don't get sidetracked guys. Scrambler rifle = OP DPS available on the assumption that "no one can push the button that fast" is just moronic. Of course they can and will. And the heat up is based on time, not on shots fired. And I've seen videos of people being able to cancel the overheat (unsure if this is still an issue) That it hasn't been fixed for so long beggars belief. Nerf it back to 400rpm and see how you go from there. "Corporation slogan coming to a sig near you"
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 4052	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:16:00 - [28] - Quote Andris Kronis wrote: Don't get sidetracked guys. Scrambler rifle = OP DPS available on the assumption that "no one can push the button that fast" is just moronic. Of course they can and will. And the heat up is based on time, not on shots fired. And I've seen videos of people being able to cancel the overheat (unsure if this is still an issue) That it hasn't been fixed for so long beggars belief. Nerf it back to 400rpm and see how you go from there. So your saying you can shoot more than 4-5 rounds a second without a modded controller? (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Coleman Gray Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1098	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:22:00 - [29] - Quote I'm prof 4 in SCR and I can tell you sir that you are most certainly correct. The over heat does not balance it out at all lol, the overheat is barely just enough to be a problem. It's negligible, this is proven by how how people just spam shoot them. should be over heating after 6-7 consecutive shots, not 15+ If Preparation is half of the battle and knowing is the other half, Then there is no need to fight.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3864	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:25:00 - [30] - Quote So... Someone actually survived a volley from your normally instakill burst HMG and managed to pull off sequential headshots with a semi-auto proto weapon and killed you. Don't see a problem. (The godfather of tactical logistics)

Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 4052	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:31:00 - [31] - Quote Coleman Gray wrote: I'm prof 4 in SCR and I can tell you sir that you are most certainly correct. The over heat does not balance it out at all lol, the overheat is barely just enough to be a problem. It's negligible, this is proven by how how people just spam shoot them. should be over heating after 6-7 consecutive shots, not 15+ 6-7 shots.... so you just want to make it the most underpowered gun in the game, gone with the way of the ion pistol I suppose. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Coleman Gray Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1098	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:39:00 - [32] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Coleman Gray wrote: I'm prof 4 in SCR and I can tell you sir that you are most certainly correct. The over heat does not balance it out at all lol, the overheat is barely just enough to be a problem. It's negligible, this is proven by how how people just spam shoot them. should be over heating after 6-7 consecutive shots, not 15+ 6-7 shots.... so you just want to make it the most underpowered gun in the game, gone with the way of the ion pistol I suppose. well maybe not to THAT extreme, I'll be back after some SCR play testing, it has been awhile If Preparation is half of the battle and knowing is the other half, Then there is no need to fight.
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11511	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:40:00 - [33] - Quote Some things I note that are wrong with SCRs: Too effective within CQC for a weapon meant to be used at Mid-Long ranges. RPM is far too high; allows for easy abuse with Modded Controllers. Some solutions to these problems: Increased dispersion while hip-fired; increase zoom fidelity to encourage use at Mid-Long ranges. Reduce RPM to 400.00. /me waits to be trolled by Amarr RPers who have no actual arguments against these assertions. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
NAV HIV The Generals Anime Empire. 1972	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:43:00 - [34] - Quote I dusted off my old Amarr Assault and Unpacked the Militia SCR i had stored away... It's a bit hard to kill the Stacked armored ones, but if you have the jump on them then, game over... It's a good counter to scouts too...
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11511	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:44:00 - [35] - Quote Coleman Gray wrote: I'm prof 4 in SCR and I can tell you sir that you are most certainly correct. The over heat does not balance it out at all lol, the overheat is barely just enough to be a problem. It's negligible, this is proven by how how people just spam shoot them. should be over heating after 6-7 consecutive shots, not 15+ SCRs don't really work that way. The Heat Sink is based on "Heat Cost Per Second", similar to that of a Laser Rifle. How many shots you can fire is entirely dependent on your ability to spam the R1 button. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Coleman Gray Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1098	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:48:00 - [36] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Coleman Gray wrote: I'm prof 4 in SCR and I can tell you sir that you are most certainly correct. The over heat does not balance it out at all lol, the overheat is barely just enough to be a problem. It's negligible, this is proven by how how people just spam shoot them. should be over heating after 6-7 consecutive shots, not 15+ 6-7 shots.... so you just want to make it the most underpowered gun in the game, gone with the way of the ion pistol I suppose. atm I can spam 17 shots with the basic SCR at pinpoint accuracy before overheating in my minmatar assault, thats next to instant 1105 damage before extra shield dmg and minus armor damage. Amarr assaults get 25% heat build up reduction at proto. So thats another 4 hits to total the damage to 1365 base damage before modifiers. Forge gun damage with a standard rifle in half the time. Waaay OP, it would be alright if it wasn't so accurate but it really is pinpoint accurate, as long as your dot is on them, your hitting them. If Preparation is half of the battle and knowing is the other half, Then there is no need to fight.
Coleman Gray Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1098	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:49:00 - [37] - Quote Atiim wrote: Coleman Gray wrote: I'm prof 4 in SCR and I can tell you sir that you are most certainly correct. The over heat does not balance it out at all lol, the overheat is barely just enough to be a problem. It's negligible, this is proven by how how people just spam shoot them. should be over heating after 6-7 consecutive shots, not 15+ SCRs don't really work that way. The Heat Sink is based on "Heat Cost Per Second", similar to that of a Laser Rifle. How many shots you can fire is entirely dependent on your ability to spam the R1 button. Ahh, makes sense.but then maybe heat build up should be per shot then perhaps? If Preparation is half of the battle and knowing is the other half, Then there is no need to fight.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 104	Posted - 2014.08.19 13:09:00 - [38] - Quote Coleman Gray wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Coleman Gray wrote: I'm prof 4 in SCR and I can tell you sir that you are most certainly correct. The over heat does not balance it out at all lol, the overheat is barely just enough to be a problem. It's negligible, this is proven by how how people just spam shoot them. should be over heating after 6-7 consecutive shots, not 15+ 6-7 shots.... so you just want to make it the most underpowered gun in the game, gone with the way of the ion pistol I suppose. atm I can spam 17 shots with the basic SCR at pinpoint accuracy before overheating in my minmatar assault, thats next to instant 1105 damage before extra shield dmg and minus armor damage. Amarr assaults get 25% heat build up reduction at proto. So thats another 4 hits to total the damage to 1365 base damage before modifiers. Forge gun damage with a standard rifle in half the time. Waaay OP, it would be alright if it wasn't so accurate but it really is pinpoint accurate, as long as your dot is on them, your hitting them. By that logic, every rifle is "waaay OP".
militia combat rifle Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.08.19 14:18:00 - [39] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Who can see that ScRs are OP? People ***** and whine about CRs and RRs all day, but I've never been three shotted by a CR before. I hear you say it takes skill to use. Bull. Just spam the R1 trigger until the enemy is dead. It does so much damage you don't have to worry about overheating before they die. Just the other day, I ran up behind a PRO Amarr Assault while I was in my STD Minmatar heavy frame. I shot him full on in the back with my HMG, about 10m. He didn't even try to strafe, he simply turned around and quadruple shotted me. He still had half armor when I died. My ~1000 eHP gone in about one second. When I use this thing, I can one shot half of the enemies I encounter. Another quarter of them can be finished off with one or two non charged shots. The last quarter are heavies, and all you need to do then is double charge shot them from a distance. The only thing that annoys more than the fact this thing is so powerful, is the fact that people still argue that it isn't. It is the ability to stack damage mods on armor suits because they don't need the high slots for their armor suit to function, shield suits needs both the highs and the lows for a effective shield setup. Shield suits are sacrificing alot more to stack damage mods than armor. Compare that with the damage profile of the scrambler and you have the reason why some people will call it OP. I think everyone can call it op as a shield based weapon it does more damage to armor than the cr Crw scr- dmg to armor per shot = 54.6 Rs-90- dmg to armor per shot = 31.18 This can be calculated by taking the base dgm of each weapon and adding in the type bonus scr is 10% dmg to shield -10% to armor and just flip it for cr
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 4056	Posted - 2014.08.19 14:21:00 - [40] - Quote militia combat rifle wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Who can see that ScRs are OP? People ***** and whine about CRs and RRs all day, but I've never been three shotted by a CR before. I hear you say it takes skill to use. Bull. Just spam the R1 trigger until the enemy is dead. It does so much damage you don't have to worry about overheating before they die. Just the other day, I ran up behind a PRO Amarr Assault while I was in my STD Minmatar heavy frame. I shot him full on in the back with my HMG, about 10m. He didn't even try to strafe, he simply turned around and quadruple shotted me. He still had half armor when I died. My ~1000 eHP gone in about one second. When I use this thing, I can one shot half of the enemies I encounter. Another quarter of them can be finished off with one or two non charged shots. The last quarter are heavies, and all you need to do then is double charge shot them from a distance. The only thing that annoys more than the fact this thing is so powerful, is the fact that people still argue that it isn't. It is the ability to stack damage mods on armor suits because they don't need the high slots for their armor suit to function, shield suits needs both the highs and the lows for a effective shield setup. Shield suits are sacrificing alot more to stack damage mods than armor. Compare that with the damage profile of the scrambler and you have the reason why some people will call it OP. I think everyone can call it op as a shield based weapon it does more damage to armor than the cr Crw scr- dmg to armor per shot = 54.6 Rs-90- dmg to armor per shot = 31.18 This can be calculated by taking the base dgm of each weapon and adding in the type bonus scr is 10% dmg to shield -10% to armor and just flip it for cr Did you even consider that the Cr fires in burst of 3-4 bullets that never miss if one bullet connects? (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!

iKILLu osborne Dead Man's Game 182	Posted - 2014.08.19 14:25:00 - [41] - Quote when you die to your own overheat then you have the right to give it judgement and then you can call it op, until then stfu "uh guys" "i got to go back to the depot that installation made me crap my dropsuit"
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 216	Posted - 2014.08.19 14:47:00 - [42] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: No I've been saying this for a while but no one tends to care. I'm fat too busy trying to get my Plasma Rifle up to par and Gallente Assault Bonus not being **** to be honest. I've talked to multiple CPMS about Arkena's thread, Kirk
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1687	Posted - 2014.08.19 14:52:00 - [43] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Who can see that ScRs are OP? People ***** and whine about CRs and RRs all day, but I've never been three shotted by a CR before. I hear you say it takes skill to use. Bull. Just spam the R1 trigger until the enemy is dead. It does so much damage you don't have to worry about overheating before they die. Just the other day, I ran up behind a PRO Amarr Assault while I was in my STD Minmatar heavy frame. I shot him full on in the back with my HMG, about 10m. He didn't even try to strafe, he simply turned around and quadruple shotted me. He still had half armor when I died. My ~1000 eHP gone in about one second. When I use this thing, I can one shot half of the enemies I encounter. Another quarter of them can be finished off with one or two non charged shots. The last quarter are heavies, and all you need to do then is double charge shot them from a distance. The only thing that annoys more than the fact this thing is so powerful, is the fact that people still argue that it isn't. Oh wow, STD Minmatar Heavy scrubberframe vs Prototype Suit build for Gods, do you have any idea how big your head on that suit is and lemme guess, that HMG was standard too and he had a Viziam ? /Facepalm Do you know what happens to my Amarr Suit when a Six Kin HMG gets me unaware in my backside, i don't even get to react... Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11512	Posted - 2014.08.19 15:09:00 - [44] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: when you die to your own overheat then you have the right to give it judgement and then you can call it op, until then stfu You have to be a pretty terrible player to die to 50HP of feedback damage. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1688	Posted - 2014.08.19 15:31:00 - [45] - Quote Atiim wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: when you die to your own overheat then you have the right to give it judgement and then you can call it op, until then stfu You have to be a pretty terrible player to die to 50HP of feedback damage. If i have to choose to Die by the hands of my opponent, when i try to reach for my secondary, but know fully well i won't make it or Kill the motherf*cker first, deny him the taste of killing me while my scrambler melts of my own face. Really easy choice right there :) Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
rithu Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo 101	Posted - 2014.08.19 15:33:00 - [46] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: rithu wrote: So...u want your little heavy to kill a proto medium suit without effort ? Logi Bro wrote: Are you trying to suggest that a STD suit that gets the drop on a PRO suit STILL shouldn't be able to beat them, even if the weapon held by the STD is a CQC weapon, and the weapon held by the PRO is a long range weapon, when the two are separated by about 10m? You must suck to not get a kill when your enemy shows his back & u r a heavy with a weapon that is the most powerfull in this game.
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 3211	Posted - 2014.08.19 15:38:00 - [47] - Quote Cuz unlike the other rifles the assault variant sucks. Like it just got an unneeded nerf making it even more useless. Buff the ASCR then you can dink around with the scr. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 3064	Posted - 2014.08.19 16:48:00 - [48] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: So... Someone actually survived a volley from your normally instakill burst HMG and managed to pull off sequential headshots with a semi-auto proto weapon and killed you. Don't see a problem. There aren't any STD burst HMGs.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2099	Posted - 2014.08.19 17:31:00 - [49] - Quote Its fine at long range, but in CQC its pretty OP "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3866	Posted - 2014.08.19 17:55:00 - [50] - Quote militia combat rifle wrote: I think everyone can call it op as a shield based weapon it does more damage to armor than the cr Crw scr- dmg to armor per shot = 54.6 Rs-90- dmg to armor per shot = 31.18 This can be calculated by taking the base dgm of each weapon and adding in the type bonus scr is 10% dmg to shield -10% to armor and just flip it for cr Your militia level understanding is woefully inadequate. The 3 round burst (facepalm) has already been pointed out. Let's go ahead and finish off the job here: ScR damage profile: 20%/[20% CR damage profile: 10%/5% (also known as the best damage profile in the game) Now on to someone who knows that they are talking about: Atiim wrote: Some things I note that are wrong with SCRs: Too effective within CQC for a weapon meant to be used at Mid-Long ranges. RPM is far too high; allows for easy abuse with Modded Controllers. Some solutions to these problems: Increased dispersion while hip-fired; increase zoom fidelity to encourage use at Mid-Long ranges. Reduce RPM to 400.00. /me waits to be trolled by Amarr RPers who have no actual arguments against these assertions. Sorry to burst your little masochistic bubble, but I could live with a ROF nerf. 400 sounds a little low-ish, but I got no problem with a smaller adjustment; just like with the TAR the value chosen by CCP makes no sense at all. Only by CCP logic does a semi-auto weapon have a higher ROF than one which is full auto. As for the CQC argument, you're going to have to do better than that. I'd like to introduce you to the RR. Longer range and full auto for her pleasure. The AR would also like to have a word with you regarding every other weapon in the game. (The godfather of tactical logistics)

Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3242	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:11:00 - [51] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: No I don't, but it's pretty obvious it's the way that it is. But sure go ahead and take away the tight hip fire it'll make it all the better in cqc. Yes, because when you fire ten shots while hipfiring and only 2 hit because the dispersion cone is so wide, you do so much better. The hmg seems to do just fine :D The HMG dispersion cone take up about 5% of the screen. I'd say the ScR's should take up more like 25%. Test that out and tell me how well you do. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3242	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:17:00 - [52] - Quote After reading through the rest of these posts, I'd like to point out that every person defending the ScR has an Amarr profile picture. So you're an Amarr FW player and you think your weapon is just fine? That sounds fine, "bias" isn't in my dictionary anyways. SP Sinks? Fixed.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3866	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:31:00 - [53] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: After reading through the rest of these posts, I'd like to point out that every person defending the ScR has an Amarr profile picture. So you're an Amarr FW player and you think your weapon is just fine? That sounds fine, "bias" isn't in my dictionary anyways. And the people arguing against it have....? I fail to see any point in the "your argument is invalid" statement. Joel II X wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: So... Someone actually survived a volley from your normally instakill burst HMG and managed to pull off sequential headshots with a semi-auto proto weapon and killed you. Don't see a problem. There aren't any STD burst HMGs. You are confusing me with someone else, I never made any such statement about the HMG. Also, I'm not guessing here. When I have fought Logi bro recently he is typically using a STD Minmatar sentinel with an ADV burst HMG. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1574	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:34:00 - [54] - Quote Andris Kronis wrote: It's a pretty easy fix, reduce rpm to 400 instead of 700+, brings the dps down to a reasonable amount and no amount of button/macro spamming can give the scrambler rifle an OP advantage. This.
Freccia di Lybra Maphia Clan Corporation 283	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:36:00 - [55] - Quote Atiim wrote: Some things I note that are wrong with SCRs: Too effective within CQC for a weapon meant to be used at Mid-Long ranges. RPM is far too high; allows for easy abuse with Modded Controllers. Some solutions to these problems: Increased dispersion while hip-fired; increase zoom fidelity to encourage use at Mid-Long ranges. Reduce RPM to 400.00. /me waits to be trolled by Amarr RPers who have no actual arguments against these assertions. Then, the rail rifle would be way better. Both in CQC and Long Range. It already is better than a Scrambler, overall. I don't really see any problem with the Scr, Ei fu, xxwhitedevilxx former Co-CEO Maphia Clan Corporation / Unit Unicorn
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1574	Posted - 2014.08.19 19:57:00 - [56] - Quote Atiim wrote: Some things I note that are wrong with SCRs: Too effective within CQC for a weapon meant to be used at Mid-Long ranges. RPM is far too high; allows for easy abuse with Modded Controllers. Some solutions to these problems: Increased dispersion while hip-fired; increase zoom fidelity to encourage use at Mid-Long ranges. Reduce RPM to 400.00. /me waits to be trolled by Amarr RPers who have no actual arguments against these assertions. I've made a suggestion along these lines (video of modded ScR inside).
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 177	Posted - 2014.08.19 20:54:00 - [57] - Quote Atiim wrote: Some things I note that are wrong with SCRs: Too effective within CQC for a weapon meant to be used at Mid-Long ranges. RPM is far too high; allows for easy abuse with Modded Controllers. Some solutions to these problems: Increased dispersion while hip-fired; increase zoom fidelity to encourage use at Mid-Long ranges. Reduce RPM to 400.00. /me waits to be trolled by Amarr RPers who have no actual arguments against these assertions. the glu-5 and duvolle both have 500rpm, zero reason why a copy should have a higher rate of fire deader than A line flares with pockets in the knees
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 78	Posted - 2014.08.20 14:51:00 - [58] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Who can see that ScRs are OP? People ***** and whine about CRs and RRs all day, but I've never been three shotted by a CR before. I hear you say it takes skill to use. Bull. Just spam the R1 trigger until the enemy is dead. It does so much damage you don't have to worry about overheating before they die. Just the other day, I ran up behind a PRO Amarr Assault while I was in my STD Minmatar heavy frame. I shot him full on in the back with my HMG, about 10m. He didn't even try to strafe, he simply turned around and quadruple shotted me. He still had half armor when I died. My ~1000 eHP gone in about one second. When I use this thing, I can one shot half of the enemies I encounter. Another quarter of them can be finished off with one or two non charged shots. The last quarter are heavies, and all you need to do then is double charge shot them from a distance. The only thing that annoys more than the fact this thing is so powerful, is the fact that people still argue that it isn't. I'm probably one of those people who can argue that it isn't that powerful, BUT! Let me say that this seems to be a potential, EXTREMELY IRRITATING, GIANT client issue. There are games where weapons that I've gone proto into are unable to do enough damage to enemies. Just yesterday I was playing a match, and my assault CR was able to put down most medium suits with a fairly decent amount of ease (trade off of using about 60-100 rounds a person). Then the next match, I was unable to take out a single player with the ACR. For some reason, no matter how many rounds I pumped into other players, the ACR was unable to take down armor or shield foes. So I swapped weapons. I went to ARs, and for a while I was good, but then there was another match where I was only able to scrap of a few kills in the match. So I swapped again. This time to an assault Scrambler rifle. And once again I was good... for that one match. The next 3 matches, no matter who I tried to kill, I had some serious issues achieving that kill. I swapped to the regular Scram rifle and tried charge-shooting players and I began to notice something... Despite the reticle/crosshair being red, and the efficiency rating on their head jumping past 100%, a lot of my shots did no damage. I did receive hit markers, but the shot didn't register. So this leads to my next question. Are they hacking the game? Or are the discrepancies between clients building up? Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 78	Posted - 2014.08.20 14:53:00 - [59] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: the glu-5 and duvolle tac both have 500rpm, zero reason why a copy should have a higher rate of fire Here's one problem with that. The tactical variants of the ARs are modified versions. Meaning that they are still blasters that have been altered to immitate another weapon. So in that case, yes, the Tact should have a lower rate of fire than the Scrams not the other way around and they shouldn't have equal rates of fire either. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 180	Posted - 2014.08.20 15:28:00 - [60] - Quote BrotherofHavok wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: the glu-5 and duvolle tac both have 500rpm, zero reason why a copy should have a higher rate of fire Here's one problem with that. The tactical variants of the ARs are modified versions. Meaning that they are still blasters that have been altered to immitate another weapon. So in that case, yes, the Tact should have a lower rate of fire than the Scrams not the other way around and they shouldn't have equal rates of fire either. what you quote me saying is my response to assertions that the scrambler should have a rate of fire of 400rpm. to which, apparently nobody but a troll could argue against deader than A line flares with pockets in the knees

BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 78	Posted - 2014.08.20 15:40:00 - [61] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: BrotherofHavok wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: the glu-5 and duvolle tac both have 500rpm, zero reason why a copy should have a higher rate of fire Here's one problem with that. The tactical variants of the ARs are modified versions. Meaning that they are still blasters that have been altered to immitate another weapon. So in that case, yes, the Tact should have a lower rate of fire than the Scrams not the other way around and they shouldn't have equal rates of fire either. what you quote me saying is my response to assertions that the scrambler should have a rate of fire of 400rpm. to which, apparently nobody but a troll could argue against hmmm. I think I confused my self a little. Since blasters are high DPS, close range weapons it makes sense that the tact AR still would do higher amounts of DPS. The scram would be lower. The tradeoff would be lower range and greater inaccuracy in comparison to the scrams. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1266	Posted - 2014.08.20 16:09:00 - [62] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Would you share with us the ~1000eHP fit in question? I assume you want shields/armor. 543/462. Sh!t, yesterday I ran across this one guy that ate through my Assault G/1's 547 armor just as fast as it did my 249 shield. Then in the same match that guy took my 450 shield and 1019 armor Amarr sentinel down to around 400 armor before I killed him and this was in a small building like the one across from A on the dom Border Gulch so there wasn't room for him to strafe around and at the spot of the building he was in he couldn't duck behind anything. People don't realize that even after that -20% the ScR gets towards armor it still does a little over 50 damage a shot (not charged shots and not headshots) and with 3 complex damage mods it does almost 60 damage to armor per shot. 4 body shots is around 200 damage to armor without damage mods and an non Amarr Assault can get around 18 shots out before overheating. That's enough to kill almost any non heavy without getting a single head shot before it overheats; now on it's own it's not OP but throw that on an Amarr assault while using a modded controller and you've got an OP recipe. At the RJC we don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Kill Scotty
Zindorak 1.U.P 647	Posted - 2014.08.20 16:46:00 - [63] - Quote Why you are the only one because you sir are drunk or high. Scrambler rifle is not op. Jesus the QQ about the scr doesn't stop Pokemon master
Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 37	Posted - 2014.08.20 23:44:00 - [64] - Quote All weapons are overpowered, some more than others, but yeah all of them are. Changing the damage, increasing the spool time, or anything on these guns won't change the fact that they can just about harass anyone within their effective range solely because they are too precise and have no recoil as long as they are advanced + weaponry. Minmatar suits as a car chassis, Gallente suits for the plates, Caldari suits for shield, and Amarr suits for the seats.
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 439	Posted - 2014.08.20 23:46:00 - [65] - Quote You're not the only one bro. I say the same thing and I've been met with the typical get good scrub response. Really don't care. Let's just keep talking about it bro until CCP has to take a look at it. It is OP. They just want to protect their crutch dude, trust me. The DPS is just crazy. Throw in a charged shot, and a mercenary doesn't have time to react. It's TTK is not on par with other weapons in the game. It's the fastest killing weapon. Saying what's on people's minds
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 464	Posted - 2014.08.21 00:01:00 - [66] - Quote After being melted by ScRs on the day Charlie was deployed I pulled out the Viziam. You know somethings up when youre melting Gallente Assaults with 700 Armor with a Viziam ScR on an Assault ck.0. I then tested the basic on the Assault A-1. Gives most heavys a run for their money. I will be the only player to Prototype every single god damn weapon before Dust dies. 3 to go.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1169	Posted - 2014.08.21 00:27:00 - [67] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So your mad your standard heavy didn't insta gib an assault Ak.0 Are you trying to suggest that a STD suit that gets the drop on a PRO suit STILL shouldn't be able to beat them, even if the weapon held by the STD is a CQC weapon, and the weapon held by the PRO is a long range weapon, when the two are separated by about 10m? yes because thats a clear lack of talent and skill on your part if you can't shoot a armor assault suit in the back with a HMG. and for all the people complaing about the scrambler rifle most of you are standing still makeing it very easy to land headshots. if a suit or gun is OP it would be spamed in PC battles but its not. but yes a scrambler rifle will fell OP against a low HP bad player who does not move much in a gunfight. so don't nerf the scrambler buff bad unskilled players. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3880	Posted - 2014.08.21 05:20:00 - [68] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: After being melted by ScRs on the day Charlie was deployed I pulled out the Viziam. You know somethings up when youre melting Gallente Assaults with 700 Armor with a Viziam ScR on an Assault ck.0. I then tested the basic on the Assault A-1. Gives most heavys a run for their money. Explain how the ScR was buffed in Charlie and how that has anything to do with this discussion. I also call bullshit on "giving Heavies a run for their money" with a STD ScR. Also a little skeptical of effortlessly "melting" suits with 700 armor unless they are idiots who are standing still, or you are using a modded controller. That's difficult enough with an LR which has much higher potential DPS. And again, modded controllers are not a legitimate reason to do anything to a weapon besides reduce the ROF, just like they did with the TAR. Krixus Flux wrote: You're not the only one bro. I say the same thing and I've been met with the typical get good scrub response. Really don't care. Let's just keep talking about it bro until CCP has to take a look at it. It is OP. They just want to protect their crutch dude, trust me. The DPS is just crazy. Throw in a charged shot, and a mercenary doesn't have time to react. It's TTK is not on par with other weapons in the game. It's the fastest killing weapon. You seem to complain an awful lot with nothing to back it up other than "oh noes it's OP." or "the DPS (which I haven't actually analyzed) is crazy, bro!" If it's so amazing, why do so few people use it? Why don't YOU use it? Seriously, nothing has changed substantially with the ScR in over a year. In fact, with the shield/armor imbalance and the change to proficiency, it's arguably been nerfed. I don't even use the damn thing and this is all just so ridiculous I can't help but be baffled at it. Answer me the following questions: - How have the masses not figured out its OP by now? - Why is it statistically the least used of all the main racial rifles? - Why didn't Nyain San spam it mercilessly? - Why don't you see entire squads running them in every battle (like with the old TAR)? - Why is it not the dominant weapon in PC? (CR is, last I checked) - Why has CCP left this, of all weapons, totally alone all this time while nerfing the flaylock, TAR, beta Viziam LR, all into oblivion at some point? (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4354	Posted - 2014.08.21 05:58:00 - [69] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Answer me the following questions: - Why didn't Nyain San spam it mercilessly? ^ This. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 439	Posted - 2014.08.21 06:00:00 - [70] - Quote So Nyain San is the definitive for what should be nerfed? Oh my, that just opens up a can of worms. "Do we nerf this weapon" "Nay good sir, Nyain San uses it not." "Good on you chap, good on you." You can't be serious. You guys are fighting tooth and nail for the SCR. I have never seen this before for any other weapon dude. You guys are going hard for the SCR protection. Saying what's on people's minds

Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3265	Posted - 2014.08.21 06:11:00 - [71] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Logi Bro wrote: After reading through the rest of these posts, I'd like to point out that every person defending the ScR has an Amarr profile picture. So you're an Amarr FW player and you think your weapon is just fine? That sounds fine, "bias" isn't in my dictionary anyways. And the people arguing against it have....? I fail to see any point in the "My suit has more duct tape and insect droppings on it; Your argument is invalid" statement. I don't really even use ScR's anymore, I use CR's because of their pathetically low fitting costs, which people also conveniently ignore. Joel II X wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: So... Someone actually survived a volley from your normally instakill burst HMG and managed to pull off sequential headshots with a semi-auto proto weapon and killed you. Don't see a problem. There aren't any STD burst HMGs. You are confusing me with someone else, I never made any such statement about the HMG. Also, I'm not guessing here. When I have fought Logi bro recently he is typically using a STD Minmatar sentinel with an ADV burst HMG. (He also said as much in this thread) I don't recall ever stating any form of FW support besides the usual Winmatar trollolol comments. The ScR supporters are, on the other hand, Amarr roleplayers. So yeah, bias. (And yes, the CR is, in its own way, OP, but that's a topic for a different thread) Also, I was using a STD HMG, never stated I was using ADV. But you are still missing the point of my post. Just one scenario in a hundred is what I referenced, made memorable by the fact that an ScR out-DPSed an HMG at close range. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4354	Posted - 2014.08.21 06:14:00 - [72] - Quote Krixus Flux wrote: So Nyain San is the definitive for what should be nerfed? Oh my, that just opens up a can of worms. "Do we nerf this weapon" "Nay good sir, Nyain San uses it not." "Good on you chap, good on you." You can't be serious. You guys are fighting tooth and nail for the SCR. I have never seen this before for any other weapon dude. You guys are going hard for the SCR protection. Nyain San is notorious for spamming the sh*t out of whatever offers them advantage. From Tac AR to Slayer Logi to Core Flaylock to AR-514 to TankBush ... In the history of Dust, no one has chased and spammed FotM harder than these clowns. Yes, they're a highly reliable indicator. As for ScR's ... I've said it 100 times that the ScR and RR are way too accurate from the hip. Other than that, I see no issue with either weapon. The ScR is potent, but you can't count on it if you're up against more than one opponent; that's a serious drawback. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3265	Posted - 2014.08.21 06:21:00 - [73] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So your mad your standard heavy didn't insta gib an assault Ak.0 Are you trying to suggest that a STD suit that gets the drop on a PRO suit STILL shouldn't be able to beat them, even if the weapon held by the STD is a CQC weapon, and the weapon held by the PRO is a long range weapon, when the two are separated by about 10m? yes because thats a clear lack of talent and skill on your part if you can't shoot a armor assault suit in the back with a HMG. and for all the people complaing about the scrambler rifle most of you are standing still makeing it very easy to land headshots. if a suit or gun is OP it would be spamed in PC battles but its not. but yes a scrambler rifle will fell OP against a low HP bad player who does not move much in a gunfight. so don't nerf the scrambler buff bad unskilled players. I will admit that I am no 1337 hax0r professional, but I seeing as I use Minmatar logistics and sentinels (high movement speeds, in case you couldn't figure that out) I am no stranger to strafing. You see, good sir, bad players have already been buffed. It's called Aim Assistance, ever heard of it? As it just so happens, when a weapon has laser hipfire accuracy and is helped by AA, it turns out a tad bit OP. On a brick tanked suit, it just so happens they would be able to spin and insta-win with a few auto-aimed shots in my general direction, despite the prowess of the HMG in CQC. So, chap, would you kindly take your ignorant ****-ery elsewhere? Much appreciated. SP Sinks? Fixed.
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 983	Posted - 2014.08.21 06:25:00 - [74] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Just the other day, I ran up behind a PRO Amarr Assault while I was in my STD Minmatar heavy frame. I shot him full on in the back with my HMG, about 10m. He didn't even try to strafe, he simply turned around and quadruple shotted me. He still had half armor when I died. My ~1000 eHP gone in about one second. Combat rifle will do the same DPS, in fact better because of the smaller damage penalty. Your problem was you were in a STD dropsuit and the Minmatar laser resistance is to ARMOR, so if you're not in your best suit stacking the best armor you can get on it, don't expect to feel a huge difference. It's the same reason my STD Amarr Heavy gets torn up by PRO HMGs. *Eternal Beings* - #76 in All Time WP - #90 in All Time Kills. Member since day one, 10 months ago.
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 632	Posted - 2014.08.21 06:34:00 - [75] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: After being melted by ScRs on the day Charlie was deployed I pulled out the Viziam. You know somethings up when youre melting Gallente Assaults with 700 Armor with a Viziam ScR on an Assault ck.0. I then tested the basic on the Assault A-1. Gives most heavys a run for their money. Explain how the ScR was buffed in Charlie and how that has anything to do with this discussion. I also call bullshit on "giving Heavies a run for their money" with a STD ScR. Also a little skeptical of effortlessly "melting" suits with 700 armor unless they are idiots who are standing still, or you are using a modded controller. That's difficult enough with an LR which has much higher potential DPS. And again, modded controllers are not a legitimate reason to do anything to a weapon besides reduce the ROF, just like they did with the TAR. Krixus Flux wrote: You're not the only one bro. I say the same thing and I've been met with the typical get good scrub response. Really don't care. Let's just keep talking about it bro until CCP has to take a look at it. It is OP. They just want to protect their crutch dude, trust me. The DPS is just crazy. Throw in a charged shot, and a mercenary doesn't have time to react. It's TTK is not on par with other weapons in the game. It's the fastest killing weapon. You seem to complain an awful lot with nothing to back it up other than "oh noes it's OP." or "the DPS (which I haven't actually analyzed) is crazy, bro!" If it's so amazing, why do so few people use it? Why don't YOU use it? Seriously, nothing has changed substantially with the ScR in over a year. In fact, with the shield/armor imbalance and the change to proficiency, it's arguably been nerfed. I don't even use the damn thing and this is all just so ridiculous I can't help but be baffled at it. Answer me the following questions: - How have the masses not figured out its OP by now? - Why is it statistically the least used of all the main racial rifles? - Why didn't Nyain San spam it mercilessly? - Why don't you see entire squads running them in every battle (like with the old TAR)? - Why is it not the dominant weapon in PC? (CR is, last I checked) - Why has CCP left this, of all weapons, totally alone all this time while nerfing the flaylock, TAR, beta Viziam LR, all into oblivion at some point? Did you know that it was, upon released, hailed as 'the most balanced weapon in the game'? It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3265	Posted - 2014.08.21 06:36:00 - [76] - Quote bamboo x wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Just the other day, I ran up behind a PRO Amarr Assault while I was in my STD Minmatar heavy frame. I shot him full on in the back with my HMG, about 10m. He didn't even try to strafe, he simply turned around and quadruple shotted me. He still had half armor when I died. My ~1000 eHP gone in about one second. Combat rifle will do the same DPS, in fact better because of the smaller damage penalty. Your problem was you were in a STD dropsuit and the Minmatar laser resistance is to ARMOR, so if you're not in your best suit stacking the best armor you can get on it, don't expect to feel a huge difference. It's the same reason my STD Amarr Heavy gets torn up by PRO HMGs. The laser resistance is to shields, but that's a moot point since I was using a Minmatar heavy frame, not the sentinel. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3265	Posted - 2014.08.21 06:51:00 - [77] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: You seem to complain an awful lot with nothing to back it up other than "oh noes it's OP." or "the DPS (which I haven't actually analyzed) is crazy, bro!" If it's so amazing, why do so few people use it? Why don't YOU use it? Seriously, nothing has changed substantially with the ScR in over a year. In fact, with the shield/armor imbalance and the change to proficiency, it's arguably been nerfed. I don't even use the damn thing and this is all just so ridiculous I can't help but be baffled at it. Answer me the following questions: - How have the masses not figured out its OP by now? - Why is it statistically the least used of all the main racial rifles? - Why didn't Nyain San spam it mercilessly? - Why don't you see entire squads running them in every battle (like with the old TAR)? - Why is it not the dominant weapon in PC? (CR is, last I checked) - Why has CCP left this, of all weapons, totally alone all this time while nerfing the flaylock, TAR, beta Viziam LR, all into oblivion at some point? Well first of all, you're right, it hasn't changed substantially for over a year, because of people like you who refuse to admit they are over the top. Your questions: -The masses did figure it out, then stopped bothering making posts when the crutch wielders beat them down by repeatedly saying it was ok and spamming threads with useless comments. (a lot like what's happening now in this thread, looking at you Nocturnal) Answer me this: what do you think of the skill multipliers for Electronics and Engineering? It's a core skill, and there was a HUGE uproar on jacking up the SP costs. It's still a steaming pile bull that they did that, nothing has changed, but why do people no longer complain? Because a few defended the SP increase and CCP outright ignored any sort of negative feedback on the change. People gave up because there was no chance in hell of it getting changed. The same can be said for AA, which still has a large amount of bullet magnetism, and people cried like hell when it was first introduced, but now they've given up, no chance of it getting changed. -Please tell me where you get that information from, because "statistically" when I play my matches, I see more ScRs than the other rifles. -I hope that question was a joke, if serious, please refer to the guy who made an entire sarcastic post dedicated to that sentence. -I do, actually. Next question. -CR is statistically the best choice in a PC match due to versatility. Low fitting costs mean you can equip uplinks with high fitting costs, to spam as many anchor points as possible. Best damage profile makes it a good weapon against both armor and shields. I never said the CR wasn't OP, I said the ScR was. -Did I mention the part where the users of the ScRs beat down the complaints with trollolololing? SP Sinks? Fixed.
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 984	Posted - 2014.08.21 06:54:00 - [78] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: The laser resistance is to shields, but that's a moot point since I was using a Minmatar heavy frame, not the sentinel. Oh you're right lol. Whatever... ***** Minmatar scum... Eternal Beings** - #76 in All Time WP - #90 in All Time Kills. Member since day one, 10 months ago.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4355	Posted - 2014.08.21 07:17:00 - [79] - Quote Mercs aren't so easily convinced. Consider post 1.7 pilots. They swore up-and-down-and-all-around that everything was fine. Did people still spam tanks? OMG yes. Did Nyain San spam tanks? More than anyone. There's also the fact that only subset of mercs visit the Forums; it would be impossible for ScR-apologists to "indoctrinate" non-participants. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1173	Posted - 2014.08.21 13:39:00 - [80] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: So your mad your standard heavy didn't insta gib an assault Ak.0 Are you trying to suggest that a STD suit that gets the drop on a PRO suit STILL shouldn't be able to beat them, even if the weapon held by the STD is a CQC weapon, and the weapon held by the PRO is a long range weapon, when the two are separated by about 10m? yes because thats a clear lack of talent and skill on your part if you can't shoot a armor assault suit in the back with a HMG. and for all the people complaing about the scrambler rifle most of you are standing still makeing it very easy to land headshots. if a suit or gun is OP it would be spamed in PC battles but its not. but yes a scrambler rifle will fell OP against a low HP bad player who does not move much in a gunfight. so don't nerf the scrambler buff bad unskilled players. I will admit that I am no 1337 hax0r professional, but I seeing as I use Minmatar logistics and sentinels (high movement speeds, in case you couldn't figure that out) I am no stranger to strafing. You see, good sir, bad players have already been buffed. It's called Aim Assistance, ever heard of it? As it just so happens, when a weapon has laser hipfire accuracy and is helped by AA, it turns out a tad bit OP. On a brick tanked suit, it just so happens they would be able to spin and insta-win with a few auto-aimed shots in my general direction, despite the prowess of the HMG in CQC. So, chap, would you kindly take your ignorant ****-ery elsewhere? Much appreciated. see the reason i call bull on you is that i run heavy as my second role and i have never ever seen a guy with his back turned to me inside 10 meters survive my hmg. now take a look at the burst HMG witch is highly OP right now and tell me you cant kill any assault or scout in under 1 second. so to tell me a guy can get shot in the back and turn around and kill you in under 1 second you are ether lieing or a bad player take your pick. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3895	Posted - 2014.08.21 14:20:00 - [81] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Well first of all, you're right, it hasn't changed substantially for over a year, because of people like you who refuse to admit they are over the top. Your questions: -The masses did figure it out, then stopped bothering making posts when the crutch wielders beat them down by repeatedly saying it was ok and spamming threads with useless comments. (a lot like what's happening now in this thread, looking at you Nocturnal) Answer me this: what do you think of the skill multipliers for Electronics and Engineering? It's a core skill, and there was a HUGE uproar on jacking up the SP costs. It's still a steaming pile bull that they did that, nothing has changed, but why do people no longer complain? Because a few defended the SP increase and CCP outright ignored any sort of negative feedback on the change. People gave up because there was no chance in hell of it getting changed. The same can be said for AA, which still has a large amount of bullet magnetism, and people cried like hell when it was first introduced, but now they've given up, no chance of it getting changed. -Please tell me where you get that information from, because "statistically" when I play my matches, I see more ScRs than the other rifles. -I hope that question was a joke, if serious, please refer to the guy who made an entire sarcastic post dedicated to that sentence. -I do, actually. Next question. -CR is statistically the best choice in a PC match due to versatility. Low fitting costs mean you can equip uplinks with high fitting costs, to spam as many anchor points as possible. Best damage profile makes it a good weapon against both armor and shields. I never said the CR wasn't OP, I said the ScR was. -Did I mention the part where the users of the ScRs beat down the complaints with trollolololing? To rebut: (I'll start off by reminding everyone I don't even use the ScR anymore, I use CR's. I also have 7 proto weapons with at least prof 3, and am a career logi coughstillcough with only 6000-something lifetime kills as a beta vet. I have no crutch to defend) 1) That's a cop out, there is no conspiracy to keep the ScR OP, and no amount of "trollololololing" has silenced the 8 threads about nerfing the ScR recently. And, for all their flaws, the one thing CCP has not done is nerf or not nerf something based exclusively on forum noise. Otherwise logi's would just have sidearms, redline snipers (or even the redline) wouldn't exist, and the ACR or RR would have been nerfed into obvlivion months ago. 2) The skill multipliers are ridiculous, no argument there. I wasn't too active on the forums when they were changed so I can't comment. However, somehow I doubt there was a big contingent of people in favor of the change that "silenced" people like you imply is happening here. More importantly, people b!tching to CCP about something, CCP ignoring them or saying "no", and then the complaints stop because CCP has made a final decision is simply not the same scenario and doesn't apply here. 3) There's a guy named Rattati, you may have heard of him. CCP Rattati wrote: That said, currently these rifles are in relative balance, sorted from most consumed to least. Rail Rifles Combat Rifles Plasma (GA) Rifles Scrambler Rifles CCP Rattati wrote: I think the number of modded SCR's is probably being overstated a tad, I haven't really noticed being killed extravagantly nor unfairly by SCR's. I get more killed by CR's and Rails, Nova Knifes and Shotguns. 4) Naturally I am being a little facetious, and yes, everyone likes to poke a little fun at Nyain San. I am not trying to factually state that whatever they use is de facto OP. However, I would argue that the converse has a fair amount of truth to it. NS has proven time and time again their superior ability to analyze and exploit whatever the current meta is. If something gives them an advantage, they will figure it out and use it. Mercilessly. Ergo, the fact that they have not (to my knowledge) ever used the ScR on a widespread scale suggests that there is something about the weapon keeping it in check. Maybe they don't want to use Amarr assault suits, maybe they want to save fitting costs (and why people continue to ignore or dismiss that, as you have, as if it has zero bearing on cross-weapon balance, baffles me), maybe they don't like the noise it makes, I have no idea. But there's clearly some drawback, otherwise I refuse to believe that their organization would have missed this for 18 months. Is that something I can use as my sole argument? No, don't be silly. But it's certainly something to think about. You think you know the meta better than NS? For most people that would be delusional to even consider. 5) You only see that because you fight for the MInmatar. Amarr loyalists are not a representative sample. 6) Then I fail to see your point. How is a nerf of the ScR so desperately needed (other than it is killing you), when newer weapons are better? If it's not even the best weapon in its class, why single it out? 7) Did I mention that that argument has no basis in reality? (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Andris Kronis Legio DXIV 76	Posted - 2014.08.22 12:11:00 - [82] - Quote Soooo if the ScR is not OP when used normally then it wouldn't be a problem or even real issue to downgrade the rof then? As it wouldn't effect any significant number of people and thus less QQ ..... easy fix ... little fallout. Not a nerf, just the final realisation that some people will always use whatever they can (modded controllers) and thinking that you can make a weapon single shot but with a high rof is just a naive game designer's newbie mistake. Easy fix. "Corporation slogan coming to a sig near you"
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 499	Posted - 2014.08.22 15:48:00 - [83] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: No I've been saying this for a while but no one tends to care. I'm fat too busy trying to get my Plasma Rifle up to par and Gallente Assault Bonus not being ** to be honest. Feel you on the Gallente Bonus except I'll trade your Gallente bonus for my Caldari Assault Bonus. I don't think there is a more worthless assault bonus than rail tech reload speed. Why would I have a Calmmando if I wanted to use a SR on my Assault, and why would the SR be the primary benefactor on my *** assault suit? I just ignore it and use any useful weapon like the gallente assault rifle or combat rifle with my suits 5.00 speed. What's the point in shield stacking so that I won't have a movement penalty if my weapon synergy uses weapons that are pretty **** at moving? And If I'm dual tanking than I'm just lagging behind the minmitar assault. Oh how roles have reversed, my dual tanking caldari that I picked up in 1.8 because the minmitar was an inferior shield tanker got buffed and now I'm back to being the shield tanker though at least this time it's not inferior to the minmitar. My SR and RR is for my Calmmando anyways.
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 258	Posted - 2014.08.22 16:13:00 - [84] - Quote This is a situation where static math 100% says that you are lying or was lagging. Take what i say with a bag of salt Who needs a gun when you can run people over FW saboteur


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