DUST Search - Orbital Bombardment WP cost

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:

I'm inclined to agree with the OP, and the 4000 number. Orbitals do help teams push back and thin numbers for a counter attack. it SEEMS, and this is only an initial impression, that I'm seeing more one sided matches. Orbitals while used by the winners to pound the losers are also very useful for trying to get back in the game.

I'd support 4000, if the community support it.

Comeback mechanics are bad, it's effectively telling players that its OK to be terrible because the developers will hold your hand through everything. Mercy of death mechanics are good, however.

I can easily get 2000+ WP on my own in a skirmish, and I'm not even a logi. Assuming everyone in my squad is equally competent that's 3 orbitals in a single match for one squad for a 4K drop. I'm not even OK with the orbital as it is, nobody appreciates having some bullshit dropped on their head that they can't do anything about and having to pay isk out of their own pocket as a result.

I do approve of orbitals in FW and PC on the other hand, as the capsuleer is actually risking something and something CAN be done about him. In pubs, its stupid.

Finally, the reason you see more one-sided matches are because PC is worthless and all the good players who refused pubs are now left with no choice but to crash into pubs. Your predecessor Kane turned off the isk faucet, so now the public gets to pay the price until CCP fixes the situation. Starve a dog and he will bite.

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Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 292	Posted - 2014.08.17 11:02:00 - [61] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Orbital spam was a bad thing, now you actually have to work as a team to get in there rather than run around getting war points so you can blow everything to hell 3 times in a row and walk into the objective... Seriously you all bitched about vehicles being able to blow you all to hell without being "easily" stopped, but an orbital is much easier and can only be avoided if you're in the right place at the right time. well the differance for a full team is only 200 points per person from 833 down to 633 each for an orbital yes it would mean more orbitals but still like 80% less then when it was 2500wp 200 points per person, per orbital... that's 2 barrages for a mear 1300wp each... 3 for 1900... Most games these "full squads" will be over 2k each (I know because I'm usually in them.) So lets say we have 2 full squads and a few blue's... That's 6 OB's and well you're not coming back into that match with your 1 OB you managed to farm stuck in the redzone. You're not supposed to be able to spam the barrage, or get them on your own.
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1536	Posted - 2014.08.17 11:08:00 - [62] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: hold that wrote: Orbitals are scrub status like cloaked scouts, they are free kills that you can't get revived from, ez mode and easily abused (heavy take damage in doorway pls with 3 logi on you). 5k is legit now. And more peeps are rolling out the better suits. orbitals can fail hard too.. iv seen/experienced orbitals that kill no one at all I am the king of fail orbitals. Just played the dom map with a tower on alpha (fracture road i think it is). Dropped an OB on alpha even tho it never works because it bloody well should work, there is no cover. Have done exactly the same thing on that map maybe 12 times. Do not, repeat do not, make me squad leader.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3831	Posted - 2014.08.17 11:14:00 - [63] - Quote So bad players cant even get 1 OB? lol too bad
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 188	Posted - 2014.08.17 11:19:00 - [64] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Death Shadow117 wrote: Its easy with logis and point whoring off of heavies. not really as there is the HARD cap for Points per minute on rep tool.. which i feel needs to be raised now Orbitals are 5k :/ and still need to be raised if they are lowered to 4k and let us not forget the impending WP nerf for mil, std and adv injectors.. only proto gets 15 more points the current good! wtf is wrong with you, you sound like a 100% scrub
TechMechMeds Level 5 Forum Warrior 5193	Posted - 2014.08.17 13:43:00 - [65] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I'm inclined to agree with the OP, and the 4000 number. Orbitals do help teams push back and thin numbers for a counter attack. it SEEMS, and this is only an initial impression, that I'm seeing more one sided matches. Orbitals while used by the winners to pound the losers are also very useful for trying to get back in the game. I'd support 4000, if the community support it. Comeback mechanics are bad, it's effectively telling players that its OK to be terrible because the developers will hold your hand through everything. Mercy of death mechanics are good, however. I can easily get 2000+ WP on my own in a skirmish, and I'm not even a logi. Assuming everyone in my squad is equally competent that's 3 orbitals in a single match for one squad for a 4K drop. I'm not even OK with the orbital as it is, nobody appreciates having some bullshit dropped on their head that they can't do anything about and having to pay isk out of their own pocket as a result. I do approve of orbitals in FW and PC on the other hand, as the capsuleer is actually risking something and something CAN be done about him. In pubs, its stupid. Finally, the reason you see more one-sided matches are because PC is worthless and all the good players who refused pubs are now left with no choice but to crash into pubs. Your predecessor Kane turned off the isk faucet, so now the public gets to pay the price until CCP fixes the situation. Starve a dog and he will bite. Totally agreed. I have been in matches where we have dropped 8-10 OBS, I know of many who have done this, the newbs didnt even get to drop one. Now, its changed to about 2-3, the newbs don't get one but hey, at least its 2-3. Battles also seem to be won over gunplay rather than the inevitable ob now, battles are more dynamic. Sod this lowering ob wp tomfoolery. I also see quite a few players who solo very often in this thread, makes sense. There he goes. One of gods own prototypes.
Sgt Buttscratch R 0 N 1 N 2278	Posted - 2014.08.17 13:57:00 - [66] - Quote 5000 is fine, well oiled squads can still get them. Give me my scrambler pistol back....**
Arcturis Vanguard Murphys-Law 248	Posted - 2014.08.17 16:04:00 - [67] - Quote I am in agreement that 5k wp is a great spot for obs. Before it was far too easy to farm orbitals even in ambushes. Now ambushes are mostly straight up team death matches, domination and skirmish are seeing a few dropped on either side which is positive for both winning and losing teams. Experienced squads will still get at least 2 orbitals for good fights which is not OP and doesn't smash the other side. It's no one's fault but the SL who doesn't put up a defend order and keep it up throughout the match to gain those extra wp to push for that orbital. CCP should not reward poor play and freely hand out instakills. All players should have to work for that instant death bombardment. This is a team based tactical game and should only reward such behavior. There are options available in game to bring in players if your Corp/alliance is short on players. Use the tools available to you to maximize the ability to gain an orbital. Improve your game, please do not try to dumb down the game. Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1541	Posted - 2014.08.17 16:52:00 - [68] - Quote Another vote for keeping the 5k limit. My only concern is that it makes it virtually impossible to clear a roof with forges on it. Even with a full squad going hard you'll be waiting half a game for that OB. So it slightly promotes chessiness, especially in domination. Maybe some of the high points could have fences stuck on them or even ladders
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 462	Posted - 2014.08.17 17:20:00 - [69] - Quote 5000WP is fine. Myself and a friend got a 2 man orbital in Ambush. Its not that hard to get for a well oiled squad.Yes, I have noticed a lot more one sided battles (and redlines) but realistically it promotes full squads, teamwork and better abilities. You want to win? Work for it. An OB is not an insta win button. You should only get it if you put the effort into your squad and you and your squad members earn it. I will be the only player to Prototype every single god damn weapon before Dust dies. 3 to go.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 552	Posted - 2014.08.17 18:47:00 - [70] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: 5000 is fine, well oiled squads can still get them. which only limits then to well oiled squads.. who dont need them in the first place if only to curb stomp the losers even more then they already are getting [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 552	Posted - 2014.08.17 18:48:00 - [71] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Orbital spam was a bad thing, now you actually have to work as a team to get in there rather than run around getting war points so you can blow everything to hell 3 times in a row and walk into the objective... Seriously you all bitched about vehicles being able to blow you all to hell without being "easily" stopped, but an orbital is much easier and can only be avoided if you're in the right place at the right time. well the differance for a full team is only 200 points per person from 833 down to 633 each for an orbital yes it would mean more orbitals but still like 80% less then when it was 2500wp 200 points per person, per orbital... that's 2 barrages for a mear 1300wp each... 3 for 1900... Most games these "full squads" will be over 2k each (I know because I'm usually in them.) So lets say we have 2 full squads and a few blue's... That's 6 OB's and well you're not coming back into that match with your 1 OB you managed to farm stuck in the redzone. You're not supposed to be able to spam the barrage, or get them on your own. only in domination will your full squad manage to get 1300+ each [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
TechMechMeds Level 5 Forum Warrior 5202	Posted - 2014.08.17 19:07:00 - [72] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: 5000 is fine, well oiled squads can still get them. which only limits then to well oiled squads.. who dont need them in the first place if only to curb stomp the losers even more then they already are getting They get none anyway, its a case of 'shall we drop 2-3 OBS a match or 6-10?'. "Oh, look!, There's, uh, two women f ing a polar bear". "Don't tell me those things".
Apocalyptic Destroyer RestlessSpirits 101	Posted - 2014.08.17 19:13:00 - [73] - Quote We can all agree that Orbitals finally used wisely, like on a letter. Not a sniper or a single tank. It's fine as is. ~R1P
Rizlax Yazzax Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 388	Posted - 2014.08.17 20:43:00 - [74] - Quote To be honest I like the 5k orbitals. As fun as it is raining hellfire, there was nothing worse than fighting tooth and nail for an objective, just to have everyone nuked once you start hacking. Now the epic battles will be worth the effort with less chance of it counting for nothing. If the general consensus is to lower cost and CCP agrees, 4k seems a fair number. When squads were 4 strong, an OB was 625 each. At 666 per player it keeps that ratio, (very mildly) inflated to account for increased sources of WP.
Senator Snipe Murphys-Law 180	Posted - 2014.08.17 20:50:00 - [75] - Quote everyone who agrees with reduction of WP for orbitals, are all scrubs. My forge skills are unmatchable. It's not that i lose battles, its just that sometimes i don't feel like winning them.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3419	Posted - 2014.08.17 21:03:00 - [76] - Quote I don't think 4000 is such a horrible number to be reduced to. To me, it seems that keeping it as high as 5000 rewards the stompers more than anything else. Its not like that reduction is going to make all games nothing but OBs... You can always tell a Millford Minja
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 410	Posted - 2014.08.17 21:07:00 - [77] - Quote Senator Snipe wrote: everyone who agrees with reduction of WP for orbitals, are all scrubs. No one cares you're good with thumbsticks you basement dwelling weirdo Saying what's on people's minds
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 343	Posted - 2014.08.17 21:22:00 - [78] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: 5000 is fine, well oiled squads can still get them. which only limits then to well oiled squads.. who dont need them in the first place if only to curb stomp the losers even more then they already are getting If they enhanced the academy there would be no need To help them but if you've been here for 1-2 years then that's your fault CCP shouldn't have to babysit you. This game rewards skill and team work if you have neither than get them. Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 555	Posted - 2014.08.17 21:25:00 - [79] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: 5000 is fine, well oiled squads can still get them. which only limits then to well oiled squads.. who dont need them in the first place if only to curb stomp the losers even more then they already are getting If they enhanced the academy there would be no need To help them but if you've been here for 1-2 years then that's your fault CCP shouldn't have to babysit you. This game rewards skill and team work if you have neither than get them. been in eve since like 2008. been in dust since 7 or 8 months so im not one of you bitter vets who think they are entitled. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Toby Flenderson research lab 576	Posted - 2014.08.17 21:31:00 - [80] - Quote If you have people in your squad that can't pull their weight, then just find someone else to fill their spot if orbitals mean that much to you. Orbitals are nice but they should used as a last resort "turn of the tides" type mechanic that allows you to disrupt the enemy momentum IMO. Until now they were basically just like kill streak rewards in COD. Now they are used more strategically because you may not get another one if you mess the first one up. This is working out for the better.

JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 343	Posted - 2014.08.17 21:42:00 - [81] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Orbital spam was a bad thing, now you actually have to work as a team to get in there rather than run around getting war points so you can blow everything to hell 3 times in a row and walk into the objective... Seriously you all bitched about vehicles being able to blow you all to hell without being "easily" stopped, but an orbital is much easier and can only be avoided if you're in the right place at the right time. well the differance for a full team is only 200 points per person from 833 down to 633 each for an orbital yes it would mean more orbitals but still like 80% less then when it was 2500wp 200 points per person, per orbital... that's 2 barrages for a mear 1300wp each... 3 for 1900... Most games these "full squads" will be over 2k each (I know because I'm usually in them.) So lets say we have 2 full squads and a few blue's... That's 6 OB's and well you're not coming back into that match with your 1 OB you managed to farm stuck in the redzone. You're not supposed to be able to spam the barrage, or get them on your own. only in domination will your full squad manage to get 1300+ each Our squads on an average get over 1300 you don't need to proto stomp and be heavy/logi for it. Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 343	Posted - 2014.08.17 21:53:00 - [82] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: JARREL THOMAS wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: 5000 is fine, well oiled squads can still get them. which only limits then to well oiled squads.. who dont need them in the first place if only to curb stomp the losers even more then they already are getting If they enhanced the academy there would be no need To help them but if you've been here for 1-2 years then that's your fault CCP shouldn't have to babysit you. This game rewards skill and team work if you have neither than get them. been in eve since like 2008. been in dust since 7 or 8 months so im not one of you bitter vets who think they are entitled. I wouldn't even cal myself a vet I regularly try to run adv gear unless stompers come into play. You don't have to be what your describing to get an orb just use tactics and skill Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits
J0hlss0n Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 178	Posted - 2014.08.17 23:45:00 - [83] - Quote Fine as it is, the games are much more enjoyable with less orbital spamming. In my opinion.
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 1211	Posted - 2014.08.17 23:59:00 - [84] - Quote My squads still manage to get at least 2 per match. They're fine. Let it be. I don't always blap Infantry with a Forge Gun, but when I do, that ** is hilarious.
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11484	Posted - 2014.08.18 01:12:00 - [85] - Quote Will Driver wrote: OBs should be rare. Keep as is. While I do agree that earning a Warbarge Strike every 2-3min was too easy, WBs being too rare can have devastating effect when placed with a group of competent players on a tower. You can use FGs and SLs to ensure that no Dropship ever gets close enough, meaning that there's no counter to anyone who decides to camp with Triage Hives and a Drop Uplink. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Egonz4 DARKSTAR ARMY 430	Posted - 2014.08.18 01:39:00 - [86] - Quote Fine as is.... To us Darkstar that is.... The masters of the game Master of The Flaylock
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4697	Posted - 2014.08.18 02:48:00 - [87] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Another vote for keeping the 5k limit. My only concern is that it makes it virtually impossible to clear a roof with forges on it. Even with a full squad going hard you'll be waiting half a game for that OB. So it slightly promotes chessiness, especially in domination. Maybe some of the high points could have fences stuck on them or even ladders Oh, it's not impossible. Actually developed a tactic specifically for that situation. Dropship flies up to flight ceiling and drops a guy or two with HMG. You have a remarkable amount of time to adjust your descent path and land on the roof pretty much perfectly if you were even slightly on target. Wait until the last moment to activate your inertia damp and they won't have any time to react. You can even perform this action solo like myself if you are willing to sacrifice a dummy-fit viper.
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 213	Posted - 2014.08.18 10:42:00 - [88] - Quote Half these people or more play ambush only. Ignore thread. So tongue in cheek that my tongue is in your mouth.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 565	Posted - 2014.08.18 10:57:00 - [89] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Half these people or more play ambush only. Ignore thread. i much prefer Domination.. and then skirmish.. ambush sucks unless a meatgrinder happens [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Senator Snipe Murphys-Law 183	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:00:00 - [90] - Quote Krixus Flux wrote: Senator Snipe wrote: everyone who agrees with reduction of WP for orbitals, are all scrubs. No one cares you're good with thumbsticks you basement dwelling weirdo what you mean? My forge skills are unmatchable. It's not that i lose battles, its just that sometimes i don't feel like winning them.



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