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EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
9
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Posted - 2014.08.03 16:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't know why I shouldn't be able to already but I'd like to, at any given time be able to give myself a respec in-game.. there are times when I invest skillpoints in something that I change my mind about or even, one time accidentally spent some.
I don't see how giving myself a respec would negatively affect gameplay so I think it should be an option.
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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Tread Loudly 2
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
24
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Posted - 2014.08.03 16:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
EMPEROR KillEm wrote:I don't know why I shouldn't be able to already but I'd like to, at any given time be able to give myself a respec in-game.. there are times when I invest skillpoints in something that I change my mind about or even, one time accidentally spent some.
I don't see how giving myself a respec would negatively affect gameplay so I think it should be an option.
Four words sums this up :P GÇ£Flavor of the monthGÇ¥
I Like Tanks, ADS's, and Ion Pistols!
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Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
637
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Posted - 2014.08.03 17:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nope, do your research and spend your points carefully. If you put them into something you had better be ready to figure out how to make it work. Ya might as well propose that CCP give away free money.
This is a signature.
You're now reading it.
You may now reply to my post.
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
393
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Posted - 2014.08.03 17:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote:Nope, do your research and spend your points carefully. If you put them into something you had better be ready to figure out how to make it work. Ya might as well propose that CCP give away free money.
Then let people purchase respects with aurum once per year. |
Jack 3enimble
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
94
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Posted - 2014.08.03 17:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Euhm no... Grind it out like a gamer |
taxi bastard
jihad taxi co.
178
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 17:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
its getting to the point where a respect will not really do too much to me, though I do have about 20% of my SP in stuff ill never use. the first 2 players are obviously in a similar boat or better.
when I started playing I put my points all over the board and wasted so much vial early SP's putting me at a huge disadvantage. although the first poster has a point about FOTM chasing, I believe that is a mute point as many players have their bases covered suit wise. many players before me have had full respecs, I myself have had partial respecs and it did allow me to recover from the mistakes I made when I did not understand the game to an extent.
CCP should simply sell respecs for 15k Aurum in the store.
for those with 50+mil SP's it would not make much of a difference
for the 25+/- crowd like myself it would allow some tweeking.
for the 10 mil+/- crowd it would allow mistakes to be rectified and the making of a lot more competitive toon in many cases.
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
393
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Posted - 2014.08.03 17:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
I have 46 million sp, all I would do is move a few skill points over from guns I don't use to other stuff I want. The whole FOTM excuse that people keep blurting out is rubbish cos it only takes a few weeks to get it anyway and it doesn't get nerfed for near 2 months. |
X7 lion
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
246
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Posted - 2014.08.03 18:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
,!,, -,.,- ,,!,
I am death,
you cannot see me,
you cannot out run me,
you cannot find me,
but im always right behind you. -stab-
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EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
9
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Posted - 2014.08.03 18:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote:Nope, do your research and spend your points carefully. If you put them into something you had better be ready to figure out how to make it work. Ya might as well propose that CCP give away free money.
I don't understand how those are similar but mkay.
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
9
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Posted - 2014.08.03 18:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jack 3enimble wrote:Euhm no... Grind it out like a gamer
To be a 'gamer' just requires that you play a game, be quite.
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
9
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Posted - 2014.08.03 18:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Saying that you personally don't need it or wouldn't use it doesn't mean that others don't and wouldn't. It wouldn't affect anyone but those who need to use it so why the opposal? Just cuz?
THE 3MPERORS Info
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Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
714
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 18:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
1 optional respec every 6 months no roleover no probem no isk back more skill books bought becomes an isk sink |
Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
37
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Do your research and spend your skillpoints carefully on things that you actually *want*. Don't chase flavor of the month and you won't have these problems. I haven't 'wasted' any SP on this character and I'm sitting at 20million sp. All it takes is a little discipline. |
EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
9
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Posted - 2014.08.03 19:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:Do your research and spend your skillpoints carefully on things that you actually *want*. Don't chase flavor of the month and you won't have these problems. I haven't 'wasted' any SP on this character and I'm sitting at 20million sp. All it takes is a little discipline.
Refer to my previous post.
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
37
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:Do your research and spend your skillpoints carefully on things that you actually *want*. Don't chase flavor of the month and you won't have these problems. I haven't 'wasted' any SP on this character and I'm sitting at 20million sp. All it takes is a little discipline. Refer to my previous post.
I saw it, and all I have to say is that the only people who whine for respecs are people who chase fotm instead of spending skillpoints on things that they actually want. If you did your research you wouldn't whine for a respec.
Eve has never gotten a respec ever, and yet there's no demand for it, why? because people spend their skillpoints carefully. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1209
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
The daily new respec thread.
People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
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EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
10
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:Do your research and spend your skillpoints carefully on things that you actually *want*. Don't chase flavor of the month and you won't have these problems. I haven't 'wasted' any SP on this character and I'm sitting at 20million sp. All it takes is a little discipline. Refer to my previous post. I saw it, and all I have to say is that the only people who whine for respecs are people who chase fotm instead of spending skillpoints on things that they actually want. If you did your research you wouldn't whine for a respec. Eve has never gotten a respec ever, and yet there's no demand for it, why? because people spend their skillpoints carefully.
Maybe you saw the post but apparently it went sailing over your head. Once again, it wouldn't affect you so why do you care?
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
37
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:Do your research and spend your skillpoints carefully on things that you actually *want*. Don't chase flavor of the month and you won't have these problems. I haven't 'wasted' any SP on this character and I'm sitting at 20million sp. All it takes is a little discipline. Refer to my previous post. I saw it, and all I have to say is that the only people who whine for respecs are people who chase fotm instead of spending skillpoints on things that they actually want. If you did your research you wouldn't whine for a respec. Eve has never gotten a respec ever, and yet there's no demand for it, why? because people spend their skillpoints carefully. Maybe you saw the post but apparently it went sailing over your head. Once again, it wouldn't affect you so why do you care?
You keep asserting that it wouldn't affect me, but you've yet to put forth a logical argument as to why. Remember that in debates the burden of proof is placed on the one making the assertion in the first place. Maybe you're not reading what I and others have had to say: if you spend your skillpoints carefully you will never skill into anything you didn't actually want.
Actions have consequences, spend your skillpoints poorly? enjoy being terrible. I see no reason why people should be able to repeatedly chase flavor of the month. |
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
714
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 20:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
it would mainly be used by people with less than 25 mil, and as long as there is a limit on how often you can do it and dont get your isk back from the skillbooks its going to cost you also. it would be good for npe aswel.l |
EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
10
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:Do your research and spend your skillpoints carefully on things that you actually *want*. Don't chase flavor of the month and you won't have these problems. I haven't 'wasted' any SP on this character and I'm sitting at 20million sp. All it takes is a little discipline. Refer to my previous post. I saw it, and all I have to say is that the only people who whine for respecs are people who chase fotm instead of spending skillpoints on things that they actually want. If you did your research you wouldn't whine for a respec. Eve has never gotten a respec ever, and yet there's no demand for it, why? because people spend their skillpoints carefully. Maybe you saw the post but apparently it went sailing over your head. Once again, it wouldn't affect you so why do you care? You keep asserting that it wouldn't affect me, but you've yet to put forth a logical argument as to why. Remember that in debates the burden of proof is placed on the one making the assertion in the first place. Maybe you're not reading what I and others have had to say: if you spend your skillpoints carefully you will never skill into anything you didn't actually want. Actions have consequences, spend your skillpoints poorly? enjoy being terrible. I see no reason why people should be able to repeatedly chase flavor of the month.
Me proving that it wouldn't affect people seems a lot less practical than you just giving me one instance in which it would. And I am reading what you and others are saying.. spend them correctly and you won't need a respec, yeah, I understood that.. but people don't always spend them correctly, like, a lot of people.. especially new players who don't know what to invest in. It would greatly help them to be able to use a respec as they learn more of the game. Saying 'F them, they should have used them correctly' is what I like to call being a D**K. If you can't think of a way it would negatively affect you then, again, I don't understand why you so greatly oppose it.
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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Jack 3enimble
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
97
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 20:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Jack 3enimble wrote:Euhm no... Grind it out like a gamer To be a 'gamer' just requires that you play a game, be quite.
Funny man, telling me what to do. Respec supporters are usually the people who don't want to put a decent amount of time in a game to unlock stuff. Those people already ruined battlefield and other games with shortcut packs available for sale.
Also the correct term is "'quiet" genius. If you're trying to be smart make sure you do it right. Please be quiet |
EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
11
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:Do your research and spend your skillpoints carefully on things that you actually *want*. Don't chase flavor of the month and you won't have these problems. I haven't 'wasted' any SP on this character and I'm sitting at 20million sp. All it takes is a little discipline. Refer to my previous post. I saw it, and all I have to say is that the only people who whine for respecs are people who chase fotm instead of spending skillpoints on things that they actually want. If you did your research you wouldn't whine for a respec. Eve has never gotten a respec ever, and yet there's no demand for it, why? because people spend their skillpoints carefully. Maybe you saw the post but apparently it went sailing over your head. Once again, it wouldn't affect you so why do you care? You keep asserting that it wouldn't affect me, but you've yet to put forth a logical argument as to why. Remember that in debates the burden of proof is placed on the one making the assertion in the first place. Maybe you're not reading what I and others have had to say: if you spend your skillpoints carefully you will never skill into anything you didn't actually want. Actions have consequences, spend your skillpoints poorly? enjoy being terrible. I see no reason why people should be able to repeatedly chase flavor of the month. Your only points so far are: 1) I think I should be able to whenever I want 2) I don't think it would affect the game negatively. Neither of those are well supported, and in the second point it's empirically wrong because of flavor of the month chasers - people who will just jump the train to whatever is currently most overpowered and fun destroying for others.
And your whole FOTM dilemma is easily solved by either making it cost extra for a respec, making people re-buy skillbooks, or a combo of both.
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
11
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jack 3enimble wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Jack 3enimble wrote:Euhm no... Grind it out like a gamer To be a 'gamer' just requires that you play a game, be quite. Funny man, telling me what to do. Respec supporters are usually the people who don't want to put a decent amount of time in a game to unlock stuff. Those people already ruined battlefield and other games with shortcut packs available for sale. Also the correct term is "'quiet" genius. If you're trying to be smart make sure you do it right. Please be quiet
Nice assumption. Btw, it's called a typo.. and I'm not trying to be smart lol but you thinking I am tells me you do perceive me as being just that.
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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Jack 3enimble
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
97
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 20:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Jack 3enimble wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Jack 3enimble wrote:Euhm no... Grind it out like a gamer To be a 'gamer' just requires that you play a game, be quite. Funny man, telling me what to do. Respec supporters are usually the people who don't want to put a decent amount of time in a game to unlock stuff. Those people already ruined battlefield and other games with shortcut packs available for sale. Also the correct term is "'quiet" genius. If you're trying to be smart make sure you do it right. Please be quiet Nice assumption. Btw, it's called a typo.. and I'm not trying to be smart lol but you thinking I am tells me you do perceive me as being just that.
With your "typo" I think the complete opposite of you. You don't bother to check what you write and get called out on it, because you try to flame people. If you checked you'd be smart. You didn't so that's kind of self-explanatory what I think of you. |
EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
11
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Posted - 2014.08.03 20:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jack 3enimble wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Jack 3enimble wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Jack 3enimble wrote:Euhm no... Grind it out like a gamer To be a 'gamer' just requires that you play a game, be quite. Funny man, telling me what to do. Respec supporters are usually the people who don't want to put a decent amount of time in a game to unlock stuff. Those people already ruined battlefield and other games with shortcut packs available for sale. Also the correct term is "'quiet" genius. If you're trying to be smart make sure you do it right. Please be quiet Nice assumption. Btw, it's called a typo.. and I'm not trying to be smart lol but you thinking I am tells me you do perceive me as being just that. With your "typo" I think the complete opposite of you. You don't bother to check what you write and get called out on it, because you try to flame people. If you checked you'd be smart. You didn't so that's kind of self-explanatory what I think of you.
Too stupid to even debate with. We're done speaking, if you continue to address me, just know that the conversation will be one-sided.
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
224
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Posted - 2014.08.03 21:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
taxi bastard wrote:its getting to the point where a respect will not really do too much to me, though I do have about 20% of my SP in stuff ill never use. the first 2 players are obviously in a similar boat or better.
when I started playing I put my points all over the board and wasted so much vial early SP's putting me at a huge disadvantage. although the first poster has a point about FOTM chasing, I believe that is a mute point as many players have their bases covered suit wise. many players before me have had full respecs, I myself have had partial respecs and it did allow me to recover from the mistakes I made when I did not understand the game to an extent.
CCP should simply sell respecs for 15k Aurum in the store.
for those with 50+mil SP's it would not make much of a difference
for the 25+/- crowd like myself it would allow some tweeking.
for the 10 mil+/- crowd it would allow mistakes to be rectified and the making of a lot more competitive toon in many cases.
myself beign in the 10+/- million skillpoint range would LOVE to rectify the mistakes iv made
Logibro in training.
Weapon Damage Profiles Quick List
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Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
37
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Posted - 2014.08.03 21:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Me proving that it wouldn't affect people seems a lot less practical than you just giving me one instance in which it would. And I am reading what you and others are saying.. spend them correctly and you won't need a respec, yeah, I understood that.. but people don't always spend them correctly, like, a lot of people.. especially new players who don't know what to invest in. It would greatly help them to be able to use a respec as they learn more of the game. Saying 'F them, they should have used them correctly' is what I like to call being a D**K. If you can't think of a way it would negatively affect you then, again, I don't understand why you so greatly oppose it.
Well 1) the burden of proof isn't on me here, It's on you, and 2) I was generous and already did with my flavor of the month example. You need to come up with well supported reasons as to why it wouldn't affect people either so we can find the holes in your thinking, point out when you're relying on logical fallacies, or so that you've explained your line of thought well enough to sway others, If you don't want to do that you might as well concede the debate.
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EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
11
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Posted - 2014.08.03 21:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Me proving that it wouldn't affect people seems a lot less practical than you just giving me one instance in which it would. And I am reading what you and others are saying.. spend them correctly and you won't need a respec, yeah, I understood that.. but people don't always spend them correctly, like, a lot of people.. especially new players who don't know what to invest in. It would greatly help them to be able to use a respec as they learn more of the game. Saying 'F them, they should have used them correctly' is what I like to call being a D**K. If you can't think of a way it would negatively affect you then, again, I don't understand why you so greatly oppose it. Well 1) the burden of proof isn't on me here, It's on you, and 2) I was generous and already did with my flavor of the month example. You need to come up with well supported reasons as to why it wouldn't affect people either so we can find the holes in your thinking, point out when you're relying on logical fallacies, or so that you've explained your line of thought well enough to sway others, If you don't want to do that you might as well concede the debate.
There are a thousand ways it wouldn't affect you.. a LOT more practical for you to just name ONE instance in which it would.... and I replied to your FOTM dilemma.. that's so easily solved just read what I said.
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
37
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Posted - 2014.08.03 21:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
So you concede the debate then? |
Coleman Gray
Haus of Triage
992
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Posted - 2014.08.03 21:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lets just get shut of the sp system, Dum this game right down, no std,adv or proto, just starter fits
If Preparation is half of the battle and knowing is the other half, Then there is no need to fight.
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EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
11
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Posted - 2014.08.03 21:25:00 -
[31] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:So you concede the debate then?
I'm not going to sit here and name off numerous ways in which it wouldn't affect you just because you want to be a hard head or just can't think of anything besides flavor of the month which I've already covered so yes the debate is over and we can both go off thinking we're right.
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
11
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Posted - 2014.08.03 21:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:Lets just get shut of the sp system, Dum this game right down, no std,adv or proto, just starter fits
Lol, that'd be interesting.
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
37
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Posted - 2014.08.03 21:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:So you concede the debate then? I'm not going to sit here and name off numerous ways in which it wouldn't affect you just because you want to be a hard head or just can't think of anything besides flavor of the month which I've already covered so yes the debate is over and we can both go off thinking we're right.
No, I'm pretty sure you don't want to do it because you can't actually support your argument well. |
EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
11
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Posted - 2014.08.03 21:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:So you concede the debate then? I'm not going to sit here and name off numerous ways in which it wouldn't affect you just because you want to be a hard head or just can't think of anything besides flavor of the month which I've already covered so yes the debate is over and we can both go off thinking we're right. No, I'm pretty sure you don't want to do it because you can't actually support your argument well.
Cool. You done?
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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taxi bastard
jihad taxi co.
178
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 21:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
I think the biggest fear is an increase in competition.
I really do believe that some vets enjoy the farming too much |
EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
11
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Posted - 2014.08.03 21:44:00 -
[36] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:So you concede the debate then? I'm not going to sit here and name off numerous ways in which it wouldn't affect you just because you want to be a hard head or just can't think of anything besides flavor of the month which I've already covered so yes the debate is over and we can both go off thinking we're right. No, I'm pretty sure you don't want to do it because you can't actually support your argument well.
Here's what you are asking of me: It wouldn't affect gameplay because it wouldn't affect the stats of guns, it wouldn't add or subtract from the initial shield and armor of dropsuits and vehicles, it wouldn't make gear cost more, it wouldn't affect your ability to level up and upgrade your gear, it wouldn't make MCC's blow up from one missile.................... what you want me to do is so ridiculous and illogical, I only did it because I wanted to demonstrate how stupid it is. It's that (and I could have kept going) or you simply mention ONE, I repeat, ONE way in which it would negatively affect you. If you can't then I say you're the one conceding from this argument.
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
3119
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Posted - 2014.08.03 22:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
For the cost of 10 Mill you can get a respec... I'll show you the secret way...
I am an Idiot, and so are you!
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12539
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Posted - 2014.08.03 22:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Personally I am not inclined to have players able to respec.
Unlike others I have made mistakes on this character with skilling...... would a Respec benefit me?
Yes.
Do I want one?
No.
Why?
Because players need to think..... they should not be given everything easily.....they should not feel entitled. In EVE and Dust actions have weight, they have consequences, and they have repercussions.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8967
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Posted - 2014.08.03 22:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
Wow, here we go again. After two freaking years of dealing with "respec" threads like this, one would wonder if anyone bothers to do their research on the forums and use the search function to see what was discussed previously on the subject matter. Two years of this.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
15
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Posted - 2014.08.03 22:10:00 -
[40] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Wow, here we go again. After two freaking years of dealing with "respec" threads like this, one would wonder if anyone bothers to do their research on the forums and use the search function to see what was discussed previously on the subject matter. Two years of this.
Two years and CCP still hasn't put them in? Sounds like a lot of people want it, shouldn't you be more upset with CCP?
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12539
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Posted - 2014.08.03 22:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Wow, here we go again. After two freaking years of dealing with "respec" threads like this, one would wonder if anyone bothers to do their research on the forums and use the search function to see what was discussed previously on the subject matter. Two years of this. Two years and CCP still hasn't put them in? Sounds like a lot of people want it, shouldn't you be more upset with CCP?
Plenty more important stuff to be irate about....... like my ******* AMARRIAN HAV!
Do you see one?
No?
THAT'S THE POINT!
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
715
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Posted - 2014.08.03 22:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Personally I am not inclined to have players able to respec.
Unlike others I have made mistakes on this character with skilling...... would a Respec benefit me?
Yes.
Do I want one?
No.
Why?
Because players need to think..... they should not be given everything easily.....they should not feel entitled. In EVE and Dust actions have weight, they have consequences, and they have repercussions.
do our dust actions really matter if they arnt making anymore content? |
Malleus Malificorum
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
37
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Posted - 2014.08.03 22:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:So you concede the debate then? I'm not going to sit here and name off numerous ways in which it wouldn't affect you just because you want to be a hard head or just can't think of anything besides flavor of the month which I've already covered so yes the debate is over and we can both go off thinking we're right. No, I'm pretty sure you don't want to do it because you can't actually support your argument well. Here's what you are asking of me: It wouldn't affect gameplay because it wouldn't affect the stats of guns, it wouldn't add or subtract from the initial shield and armor of dropsuits and vehicles, it wouldn't make gear cost more, it wouldn't affect your ability to level up and upgrade your gear, it wouldn't make MCC's blow up from one missile.................... what you want me to do is so ridiculous and illogical, I only did it because I wanted to demonstrate how stupid it is. It's that (and I could have kept going) or you simply mention ONE, I repeat, ONE way in which it would negatively affect you. If you can't then I say you're the one conceding from this argument.
What I wanted from you is completely logical - it's actually called the process of logical debate, while you may think it's ridiculous to explain yourself it works wonders to help convey your thoughts or find where you might be mistaken in your thoughts.
From mechanical standpoints, you're correct. In terms of meta shifts however though it affects a lot. Once something becomes slightly overpowered (say like scouts, or heavies, or rail rifles) all of a sudden everyone is purchasing respecs to switch to that. So while the ability to purchase respecs doesn't affect the gameplay, it does affect the game environment and meta shifts can be incredibly toxic. What if tomorrow someone finds out that X thing is really overpowered at proto tier, and so people use respecs to get to it at proto tier, and then when it's nerfed due to being noxious to try and play against the people who rode that train to ruin simply hop over to the next 'op' thing.
To make another example, there's a lot of people who have skilled into dropships simply to exploit the confirmed bug that is 'skill stacking', most of these people didn't skill into dropships because they actually wanted them, they skilled into them because they're broken and not functioning as intended. With purchasable respecs, the people who abused this behaviour essentially getting away with skilling into things just to exploit them scott free.
Furthermore it undermines the whole concept of what eve and dust are built upon, "Choices have Consequences". |
Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
312
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Posted - 2014.08.03 22:20:00 -
[44] - Quote
EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Wow, here we go again. After two freaking years of dealing with "respec" threads like this, one would wonder if anyone bothers to do their research on the forums and use the search function to see what was discussed previously on the subject matter. Two years of this. Two years and CCP still hasn't put them in? Sounds like a lot of people want it, shouldn't you be more upset with CCP?
Two years of people asking for respecs, and their threads being filled with posts about why its a bad idea. A lot of people do want them, a lot more don't. |
EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
15
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Posted - 2014.08.03 22:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Personally I am not inclined to have players able to respec.
Unlike others I have made mistakes on this character with skilling...... would a Respec benefit me?
Yes.
Do I want one?
No.
Why?
Because players need to think..... they should not be given everything easily.....they should not feel entitled. In EVE and Dust actions have weight, they have consequences, and they have repercussions.
Players need to think? ... Okay, sure, still though, a very complicated game that new players tend to mess up in at least a few times and I wouldn't think it's unlikely that because of that some have quickly given up on the game, thus, allowing it could lead to an increase in players. They should not be given everything easily? ... They aren't being "given" anything, they aren't asking for free skillpoints, they earned the skillpoints.. they were just indecisive, didn't have the proper experience to know what to invest in, or possibly just accidently used some. They should not feel entitled? True, but I don't recall anyone expressing that they felt they were entitled.. this is a request, and it's been requested by a lot of people a lot of times. Isn't one of CCPs top priorities supposed to be giving the community what is largely requested? Isn't that the whole purpose of this section of the forums?
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12539
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Posted - 2014.08.03 22:28:00 -
[46] - Quote
EMPEROR KillEm wrote:True Adamance wrote:Personally I am not inclined to have players able to respec.
Unlike others I have made mistakes on this character with skilling...... would a Respec benefit me?
Yes.
Do I want one?
No.
Why?
Because players need to think..... they should not be given everything easily.....they should not feel entitled. In EVE and Dust actions have weight, they have consequences, and they have repercussions.
Players need to think? ... Okay, sure, still though, a very complicated game that new players tend to mess up in at least a few times and I wouldn't think it's unlikely that because of that some have quickly given up on the game, thus, allowing it could lead to an increase in players. They should not be given everything easily? ... They aren't being "given" anything, they aren't asking for free skillpoints, they earned the skillpoints.. they were just indecisive, didn't have the proper experience to know what to invest in, or possibly just accidently used some. They should not feel entitled? True, but I don't recall anyone expressing that they felt they were entitled.. this is a request, and it's been requested by a lot of people a lot of times. Isn't one of CCPs top priorities supposed to be giving the community what is largely requested? Isn't that the whole purpose of this section of the forums?
I was indecisive as well. I put A LOT of SP into weapons I will never use again, I have SP in skills that don't do anything, and in Dropsuits I rarely use......
Every players who is here on the forums was in the same place as these beginners once before...... we understand that it hits you for a month...tops.....then you move on.
If players have the options to respec regularly they have no attachment to their character, no care in selecting their skills, no unique aspects that make their character special. SP investment is like a chronicle of your characters actions in Dust and gives your character identity....... I'd hate to see Dust/ Legion lose its harsh and gritty vibe for casualised mechanics because players stopped taking the choices seriously.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8967
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Posted - 2014.08.03 22:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Personally I am not inclined to have players able to respec.
Unlike others I have made mistakes on this character with skilling...... would a Respec benefit me?
Yes.
Do I want one?
No.
Why?
Because players need to think..... they should not be given everything easily.....they should not feel entitled. In EVE and Dust actions have weight, they have consequences, and they have repercussions.
Agreed.
Respecs have a tendency to make players act before they think which can lead them to make reckless choices without having to worry about anything which is against the culture of New Eden. The culture is that we have to learn from our mistakes and make the most out of them while doing our best to balance those mistakes with better choices in the future. Players have asked for respecs in Eve Online in the past, but those players are a minority in the crowd and often face the metaphorical summary execution at the hands of suicide gankers and forum trolls while CCP flat out ignores such requests even if it's coming from their subscribers. If CCP won't listen to their own Eve subscribers asking for respecs, and Eve subscriptions are a major source of their revenue, then there is no hope in CCP giving respecs to free-to-play players.
But to be fair, there is only one logical excuse to ever give out a respec and that is only when racial parity of weapons, suits, or vehicles get introduced. CCP has done respecs like this in the recent past such as the respec for the introduction of the remaining racial heavy and scout suits. People will likely expect the same for the introduction of the remaining racial vehicles but the vehicle part doesn't seem very likely ever since Legion was announced.
But honestly, the best way to keep people from asking for a respec is simple. Overhaul the new-player experience in a way that better explains the skill tree and helps player get a good idea of how the skill books will effect them. Eve Online's ISIS system does this beautifully using a clear chart of all the ships in Eve Online in a way that helps new players fully understand which skills to go for. If that was implemented sooner into Dust, we wouldn't be seeing threads like this anymore.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
15
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Posted - 2014.08.03 22:37:00 -
[48] - Quote
Malleus Malificorum wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:Malleus Malificorum wrote:So you concede the debate then? I'm not going to sit here and name off numerous ways in which it wouldn't affect you just because you want to be a hard head or just can't think of anything besides flavor of the month which I've already covered so yes the debate is over and we can both go off thinking we're right. No, I'm pretty sure you don't want to do it because you can't actually support your argument well. Here's what you are asking of me: It wouldn't affect gameplay because it wouldn't affect the stats of guns, it wouldn't add or subtract from the initial shield and armor of dropsuits and vehicles, it wouldn't make gear cost more, it wouldn't affect your ability to level up and upgrade your gear, it wouldn't make MCC's blow up from one missile.................... what you want me to do is so ridiculous and illogical, I only did it because I wanted to demonstrate how stupid it is. It's that (and I could have kept going) or you simply mention ONE, I repeat, ONE way in which it would negatively affect you. If you can't then I say you're the one conceding from this argument. What I wanted from you is completely logical - it's actually called the process of logical debate, while you may think it's ridiculous to explain yourself it works wonders to help convey your thoughts or find where you might be mistaken in your thoughts. From mechanical standpoints, you're correct. In terms of meta shifts however though it affects a lot. Once something becomes slightly overpowered (say like scouts, or heavies, or rail rifles) all of a sudden everyone is purchasing respecs to switch to that. So while the ability to purchase respecs doesn't affect the gameplay, it does affect the game environment and meta shifts can be incredibly toxic. What if tomorrow someone finds out that X thing is really overpowered at proto tier, and so people use respecs to get to it at proto tier, and then when it's nerfed due to being noxious to try and play against the people who rode that train to ruin simply hop over to the next 'op' thing. To make another example, there's a lot of people who have skilled into dropships simply to exploit the confirmed bug that is 'skill stacking', most of these people didn't skill into dropships because they actually wanted them, they skilled into them because they're broken and not functioning as intended. With purchasable respecs, the people who abused this behaviour essentially getting away with skilling into things just to exploit them scott free. Furthermore it undermines the whole concept of what eve and dust are built upon, "Choices have Consequences".
I disagree, normally it would have been logical but not when the ratio of reasons it wouldn't to it would is like thousands to 2.
The problem of people jumping around depending on what's OP at the time or the flavor of the month is solved buy making it cost isk for a respec, making people re-buy skillbooks, or a combo of both as I said before.. and they could even throw in a waiting period between the times you can use a respec.. then people would be weary of going for the OP weapon because if it gets nerfed then they'd be stuck with a now mediocre weapon or suit until they are allowed another respec. (which I think should be at least 50 days.)
The whole concept of EVE and Dust is that choices have consequences? Guess I didn't get the memo.. anyway, if you're satisfied with my solutions to your argument of meta shifts then is there anything else?
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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EMPEROR KillEm
THE 3MPERORS
15
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Posted - 2014.08.03 22:46:00 -
[49] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:EMPEROR KillEm wrote:True Adamance wrote:Personally I am not inclined to have players able to respec.
Unlike others I have made mistakes on this character with skilling...... would a Respec benefit me?
Yes.
Do I want one?
No.
Why?
Because players need to think..... they should not be given everything easily.....they should not feel entitled. In EVE and Dust actions have weight, they have consequences, and they have repercussions.
Players need to think? ... Okay, sure, still though, a very complicated game that new players tend to mess up in at least a few times and I wouldn't think it's unlikely that because of that some have quickly given up on the game, thus, allowing it could lead to an increase in players. They should not be given everything easily? ... They aren't being "given" anything, they aren't asking for free skillpoints, they earned the skillpoints.. they were just indecisive, didn't have the proper experience to know what to invest in, or possibly just accidently used some. They should not feel entitled? True, but I don't recall anyone expressing that they felt they were entitled.. this is a request, and it's been requested by a lot of people a lot of times. Isn't one of CCPs top priorities supposed to be giving the community what is largely requested? Isn't that the whole purpose of this section of the forums? I was indecisive as well. I put A LOT of SP into weapons I will never use again, I have SP in skills that don't do anything, and in Dropsuits I rarely use...... Every players who is here on the forums was in the same place as these beginners once before...... we understand that it hits you for a month...tops.....then you move on. If players have the options to respec regularly they have no attachment to their character, no care in selecting their skills, no unique aspects that make their character special. SP investment is like a chronicle of your characters actions in Dust and gives your character identity....... I'd hate to see Dust/ Legion lose its harsh and gritty vibe for casualised mechanics because players stopped taking the choices seriously.
That last section actually won me over, good point, I do like the idea of the uniqueness and attachment to the character.. I've changed my stance.
THE 3MPERORS Info
~THE 3MPERORS CEO
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
228
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Posted - 2014.08.04 00:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
why dont we allow SP reallocation for players with 10 or 15 million sp or less to get a 1 time SP re-distribution? it wont effect you bittervets at all and remember FOTM changes all the time.. if they go FOTM now they got Delta or Epsilon to get F'd in the A with nerfs/balances
Logibro in training.
Weapon Damage Profiles Quick List
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8968
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Posted - 2014.08.04 07:12:00 -
[51] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:why dont we allow SP reallocation for players with 10 or 15 million sp or less to get a 1 time SP re-distribution? it wont effect you bittervets at all and remember FOTM changes all the time.. if they go FOTM now they got Delta or Epsilon to get F'd in the A with nerfs/balances
Some of us suggested to CCP to make it so that a one-time respec was offered to all new players who completed the academy as a reward for their effort to learn. This would be the last chance anyone would have. Beyond that, everything becomes your fault.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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xAckie
Ghost. Mob
441
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Posted - 2014.08.04 12:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:why dont we allow SP reallocation for players with 10 or 15 million sp or less to get a 1 time SP re-distribution? it wont effect you bittervets at all and remember FOTM changes all the time.. if they go FOTM now they got Delta or Epsilon to get F'd in the A with nerfs/balances Some of us suggested to CCP to make it so that a one-time respec was offered to all new players who completed the academy as a reward for their effort to learn. This would be the last chance anyone would have. Beyond that, everything becomes your fault.
Legion will have a respec mechanism. I guess CCP doesnt agree with you.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8970
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Posted - 2014.08.04 15:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
xAckie wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:why dont we allow SP reallocation for players with 10 or 15 million sp or less to get a 1 time SP re-distribution? it wont effect you bittervets at all and remember FOTM changes all the time.. if they go FOTM now they got Delta or Epsilon to get F'd in the A with nerfs/balances Some of us suggested to CCP to make it so that a one-time respec was offered to all new players who completed the academy as a reward for their effort to learn. This would be the last chance anyone would have. Beyond that, everything becomes your fault. Legion will have a respec mechanism. I guess CCP doesnt agree with you.
Don't be so sure. CCP Z said some time ago that there have been changes to the proposal he made for skill progression. He didn't say what those changes were. His comment is on one of the archived feedback threads I believe.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Boot Booter
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dark Taboo
823
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Posted - 2014.08.04 15:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
Will everyone shut up about respecs. Its just not going to happen and it would be terrible for dust. Do your research, pick what you think fits your style, and if you want something else grind for it like everyone always has. We don't need a bunch of tryhards swinging from OP FOTM to OP FOTM. I don't care if you think selling respecs for isk or having a time limit on respecs is a good idea, because it's not. Do you have any idea how much money people have? Selling respecs for isk only further promotes the current FOTM chasers and leaves noob in the dust anyway. Secondly a time limit does nothing as many people, except noobs again, have multiple alts with millions of sp.
Respecs in any game devalue choices and make the skill book seem very cheap. Whatever mechanic you think will work, won't. It will be exploited by the very people we are trying to limit, FOTM chasing tryhards.
What happened to the repair tool glow?
Why won't CCP answer?
Conspiracy?
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