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Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
204
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Posted - 2014.08.01 08:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
We will have to see how Charlie goes, you never know, knives may actually become good.
I wouldn't be surprised if Min scouts are still lacking however.
If they need a buff, I would look at improving the hack bonus. I love the idea of having a hack bonus on a scout. The trouble is, hack speed is only really useful once you can hack very fast, and min scouts can't feasibly fit many codebreakers. In fact it seems better to fit other modules instead. 25% isn't a big enough bonus to compete with the other scout's EWAR bonuses. Also, bear in mind a min scout hacks more slowly than a min logi did back when they had the bonus. Maybe buff it to 7% per level or something. Hack speed just has less overall value than EWAR.
See how Charlie goes first though. |
The Eristic
Dust 90210
596
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 09:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
Think it'll be much more workable with KC and NK fitting reductions. Now I just want the mk.0 to look like a real protosuit. Not just "Hey, uh, you see those three or four blackish-brown strips of cloth? No? Well, they're there and they're definitely not really black already. Trust us. Anyway, we swapped them for, uh, black. Totally different now. Job done."
Reality is the original Rorschach.
Verily! So much for all that.
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3741
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 13:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Cass Caul wrote:Fairly certain True is specifically speaking about how most scouts, myself included, were against giving the Amarr Scout a bonus of 20% per level to stamina and stamina recovery instead of a 5% bonus.
You, Shotty, are talking about our suggestions we collected after the hot-fixes started. I'm referring to the talks leading up to 1.8. Aero (if I recall correctly) came into the Barbershop looking for an alternative bonus. I recall a 'bit of back-and-forth between us and him, Magnus and perhaps another Amarr RP guy. They didn't like what we came up with. They didn't have any ideas of of their own. I could be wrong; memories are not reliable. Luckily its all recorded, somewhere in the threadnaught :-)
Oh no no no, the reason we didn't like your bonus is because it was all related to armor tanking on a SCOUT. We wanted to be a scout not so cop out assault. I came up with the increase to scp rof guess what happened, it got shot down. We wanted a increase to are current bonus, not a dang thing happened to further the discussion. We tried but are ideals of what the Amarr scout should be were obviously so different since we wanted a scout and a select few just wanted another bs gimped suit that was supposedly the amarr's way of fighting. I'm not saying you were apart of it because I'd remember your name and attack you on sight about it now.
P.S. The new bonus is sh*t too, precision with two highs is stupid we should of got range amplifiers instead.
Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt!
The eyes of God compelles you!!!
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
3484
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Posted - 2014.08.01 13:27:00 -
[34] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:
P.S. The new bonus is sh*t too, precision with two highs is stupid we should of got range amplifiers instead.
I've cold feet about the "precision switch" as well, but I understand the thinking and it might end up working out well. The CalScout's scans were simply too good and left little room for MinScout to function; the "precision switch" might have been avoided if we'd pitched Borimir's idea in advance of Charlie talks. But again, the MinScouts themselves ardently opposed trading an existing bonus out for another.
We'll have to see how it pans out.
PS: A straight biotic bonus or a ferro/reactive bonus would've been great for the Amarr. An ScP RoF bonus alone would've likely generated more complaints than the current stamina bonus.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
205
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 13:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
The new bonus is good. You have a good use for your highs. More than 2 precision enhancers plus a 25% bonus is OP, part of the reason Caldari scouts are a problem at the moment.
Personally I never liked the idea of giving Amarr scouts an armour bonus, I'm glad they are getting a decent scout bonus. |
Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3741
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 13:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:
P.S. The new bonus is sh*t too, precision with two highs is stupid we should of got range amplifiers instead.
I've cold feet about the "precision switch" as well, but I understand the thinking and it might end up working out well.
See the thing is with Charlie the Amarr and Cal scouts maim ewar mods don't take up their main tank causing there to be a select few that see this as a 650+ armor tanks 360 scanner running around with combat rifles (on an amarr suit ) the gal scout gives up tank for damps and the matar is just speed and KN oriented so yeah. Just seems like Ratati messed up scouts with all the complaining.
Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt!
The eyes of God compelles you!!!
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3741
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 13:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:
P.S. The new bonus is sh*t too, precision with two highs is stupid we should of got range amplifiers instead.
I've cold feet about the "precision switch" as well, but I understand the thinking and it might end up working out well. The CalScout's scans were simply too good and left little room for MinScout to function; the "precision switch" might have been avoided if we'd pitched Borimir's idea in advance of Charlie talks. But again, the MinScouts themselves ardently opposed trading an existing bonus out for another. We'll have to see how it pans out. PS: A straight biotic bonus or a ferro/reactive bonus would've been great for the Amarr. An ScP RoF bonus alone would've likely generated more complaints than the current stamina bonus.
See that's why we argued none of the Amarr players wanted a tanked out scout we wanted are interceptor of Dust not a dang agile battle cruiser.
Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt!
The eyes of God compelles you!!!
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
3484
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 13:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:See the thing is with Charlie the Amarr and Cal scouts maim ewar mods don't take up their main tank causing there to be a select few that see this as a 650+ armor tanks 360 scanner running around with combat rifles (on an amarr suit ) the gal scout gives up tank for damps and the matar is just speed and KN oriented so yeah. Just seems like Ratati messed up scouts with all the complaining.
This will be addressed in Delta with efficacy bonuses and/or armor penalties.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3741
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 13:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:See the thing is with Charlie the Amarr and Cal scouts maim ewar mods don't take up their main tank causing there to be a select few that see this as a 650+ armor tanks 360 scanner running around with combat rifles (on an amarr suit ) the gal scout gives up tank for damps and the matar is just speed and KN oriented so yeah. Just seems like Ratati messed up scouts with all the complaining. This will be addressed in Delta with efficacy bonuses and/or armor penalties.
I hope so
Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt!
The eyes of God compelles you!!!
|
Zindorak
1.U.P
214
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 15:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
I actually might skill into the Minja just so i can get the NK bonus and for trolling
Master of the Scrambler Pistol. Carthum Assault ScP <3
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1794
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 15:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:True Adamance wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Wow, what a compelling, well thought out argument! Your evidence and analysis of said argument are so factual and logical that you must be right!  I remember a time the "Pr0 l33t Scounts" said Amarr Scout is going to be OP with its initial bonuses. They couldn't have been more wrong. Coupling NK damage, hacking bonuses, the fastest Stamina recharge rate, and the fastest movement values..... You guys quite frankly don't deserve any more that you already have. Especially in the case for cloaking modules. Why the **** do you believe your suit deserves any better bonus to cloaking than any other race? Answer: You don't. No one said it would be "OP", thats blatant fabrication. Fast move values=sh!t with the largest hit box of all scouts. Am get eWAR next patch, why not minmitar? Because you had a defined role already
And we can't play that role because code breakers are staying as low slots....all the active dampening bonus does, if you look at scan tables, is free up one extra low slot, at the expense of being pinged by am scouts when our cloak runs out, or being pinged by a gallogi focused while the cloak is running.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1794
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 15:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
I just want to point out right now that even with the NK buffs, the min scout will still be behind every other scout on the field.
Lets examine why.
NK loses to SG every time, unless SGer is terribad.
Codebreakers remain low slots as well as dampeners and kin cats. As a minja post-charlie, it will be a requirement of at least 2 low slots dedicated to dampeners AND a proto cloak active to dodge amarr passives. However, we will still be scanned by gallogis. Therefore, we can't take advantage of our abilities.
We remain blind in relation to all other scouts (gal and am get precision, cal gets range).
NK is a suicide AV tool as it will kill the user every time.
To NK, i personally find that running under 10 m/s is not going to get the job done, simply because of how much you have to run away or raptor attack people or get close behind them. However, to run above 10 m/s next patch, we won't be able to dampen, and with shared passives, everyone will see us, making our job impossible.
Our objective hacking will be too slow to ninja points because we can only fit one codebreaker, and the letter blinks once we start hacking, so everyone would know where we are, and will be able to track and kill us. If we fit > one codebreaker, were screwed because they see us before we head to the terminal.
Cloak active dampening bonus fixes all of these, while giving us a huge achilles heel as well--once the cloak wears off, we are very easily scanned by everything, so it adds a much larger dynamic to the ultimate hit-and-tun guerrilla warfare assassin that all minjas aim to be.
Please consider the implications of not adding this bonus.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
3495
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 15:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
1. I just want to point out right now that even with the NK buffs, the min scout will still be behind every other scout on the field.
2. NK loses to SG every time, unless SGer is terribad.
3. Codebreakers remain low slots as well as dampeners and kin cats. As a minja post-charlie, it will be a requirement of at least 2 low slots dedicated to dampeners AND a proto cloak active to dodge amarr passives. However, we will still be scanned by gallogis. Therefore, we can't take advantage of our abilities.
4. We remain blind in relation to all other scouts (gal and am get precision, cal gets range).
5. NK is a suicide AV tool as it will kill the user every time.
6. To NK, i personally find that running under 10 m/s is not going to get the job done, simply because of how much you have to run away or raptor attack people or get close behind them. However, to run above 10 m/s next patch, we won't be able to dampen, and with shared passives, everyone will see us, making our job impossible.
7. Our objective hacking will be too slow to ninja points because we can only fit one codebreaker, and the letter blinks once we start hacking, so everyone would know where we are, and will be able to track and kill us. If we fit > one codebreaker, were screwed because they see us before we head to the terminal.
8. Cloak active dampening bonus fixes all of these, while giving us a huge achilles heel as well--once the cloak wears off, we are very easily scanned by everything, so it adds a much larger dynamic to the ultimate hit-and-tun guerrilla warfare assassin that all minjas aim to be.
9. Please consider the implications of not adding this bonus.
1. You can't possibly know this.
2. Head-to-head, of course the SG wins. But neither weapon is designed for head-to-head engagement.
3. Fair point. CBs should've been moved to Highs. Maybe next build.
4. You also pack the highest alpha death punch available.
5. Point being?
6. Fair point.
7. Switch suits if you need to ninja hack; you can't do everything with one loadout.
8. It also might make you overpowered. Why run anything else if the Minja can do it all?
9. WTF is that supposed to mean? Quit being an idiot, Gav. You're embarrassing us.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3743
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 15:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
^ ha beat me to it
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!!
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Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
205
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 16:26:00 -
[45] - Quote
We have to wait for Charlie before considering any further changes.
Precision might not be popular, so a min scout might be able to go 1 kincat, 1 Codebreaker, 1 dampener.
Nova knives might be good.
People might not care about 800 armour scouts with all the mega assaults running around. |
taxi bastard
jihad taxi co.
174
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 17:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
mini scout is my most used suit by a long way, and I enjoy using it.
the problem is I struggle to make a viable build for the basic scout, which is not a problem with the other scouts, this is party due to bonuses and partly due to the PG making the suit need to use almost all basic items and one or 2 advanced if you have maxed passives.
as a result I feel forced to use the advanced suit - here is the basic footprint for quite a few of my combat orientated load outs.
highs
2 complex precision enhancers
1 shield extender
lows
armour plate
complex reactive armour
I have not unlock complex dampeners yet and I feel that its a case of go complex or don't bother in their case. but I admit I have not crunched the numbers. currently I need the EHP because against 2 of the scouts they have the advantage of seeing me first and have to give up a lot less to do so and it would still be the case unless they were pure tank fits if I had a dampener.
to balance the mini suit I would give it hacking and KN damage as a main bonus 5%per level (the other suits have constantly useful bonuses, hacking is dependant on if you need to hack, and NK is if they are equipt and can only be used at a certain times so its not going to be OP to give the both) and give it a 3% per level scan precision as a secondary bonus. this would IMO bring it inline with the other scout suits after Charlie. |
Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
657
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 20:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:We will have to see how Charlie goes, you never know, knives may actually become good.
I wouldn't be surprised if Min scouts are still lacking however.
If they need a buff, I would look at improving the hack bonus. I love the idea of having a hack bonus on a scout. The trouble is, hack speed is only really useful once you can hack very fast, and min scouts can't feasibly fit many codebreakers. In fact it seems better to fit other modules instead. 25% isn't a big enough bonus to compete with the other scout's EWAR bonuses. Also, bear in mind a min scout hacks more slowly than a min logi did back when they had the bonus. Maybe buff it to 7% per level or something. Hack speed just has less overall value than EWAR.
See how Charlie goes first though.
I completely agree with you. First we'll see how Charlie goes (Coming Soon) but I'm still somewhat certain that the Min Scout will still fall behind other scouts, Active Dampening would be a necessary addition if this happens to be the case. I especially agree with you on the hacking front, it's not that significantly faster, perhaps if it was, then this component wouldn't be necessary. And again, codebreakers on low slots seems to be difficult to fit when you're too worried about staying under the radar as well as sticking those kin cats.
My main point that underlies this entire argument is that the Min scout will need to be re-evaluated before moving onto other hotfixes.
"One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p is my Minja Brother.
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501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
416
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 21:42:00 -
[48] - Quote
The frickin make Codebreakers High Slots. That shiznit is ridiculous. How can I hack a point with Codebreakers when you Cal, Gal, and now Amarr scouts can see me coming? I can't. Codebreakers in highs allow me to damp, and hack quickly, making it a hit and run. I can't run if you know where I'm going.
CCP Rattati I implore you to make Codebreakers High Slot modules
From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men
CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1802
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 03:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:The frickin make Codebreakers High Slots. That shiznit is ridiculous. How can I hack a point with Codebreakers when you Cal, Gal, and now Amarr scouts can see me coming? I can't. Codebreakers in highs allow me to damp, and hack quickly, making it a hit and run. I can't run if you know where I'm going.
CCP Rattati I implore you to make Codebreakers High Slot modules
Unfortuneltly there was technical difficulties, making this impossible.   
While i understand everyone on here's arguments against, I ask, why not?
How would this make the suit overpowered in any way shape or form?
How does it not contribute to a "hit-and-run" style ninja?
EDIT: Bor, i like the sig change  
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
672
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 04:56:00 -
[50] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:501st Headstrong wrote:The frickin make Codebreakers High Slots. That shiznit is ridiculous. How can I hack a point with Codebreakers when you Cal, Gal, and now Amarr scouts can see me coming? I can't. Codebreakers in highs allow me to damp, and hack quickly, making it a hit and run. I can't run if you know where I'm going.
CCP Rattati I implore you to make Codebreakers High Slot modules Unfortuneltly there was technical difficulties, making this impossible. While i understand everyone on here's arguments against, I ask, why not? How would this make the suit overpowered in any way shape or form? How does it not contribute to a "hit-and-run" style ninja? EDIT: Bor, i like the sig change
Lol I like it too. 
"One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p is my Minja Brother.
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OP FOTM
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
273
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 05:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
that'd be great except for the fact that Minjas dont have enough to fit a proto cloak to begin with
Dust servers will be a ghost town on 09/09/14
Destiny kicks ass... Like Halo knocked up Mass Effect and gave birth
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
672
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 05:16:00 -
[52] - Quote
OP FOTM wrote:that'd be great except for the fact that Minjas dont have enough to fit a proto cloak to begin with
It will/would after hotfix charlie....and who uses proto cloak?
"One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p is my Minja Brother.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1805
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 12:21:00 -
[53] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
1. I just want to point out right now that even with the NK buffs, the min scout will still be behind every other scout on the field.
2. NK loses to SG every time, unless SGer is terribad.
3. Codebreakers remain low slots as well as dampeners and kin cats. As a minja post-charlie, it will be a requirement of at least 2 low slots dedicated to dampeners AND a proto cloak active to dodge amarr passives. However, we will still be scanned by gallogis. Therefore, we can't take advantage of our abilities.
4. We remain blind in relation to all other scouts (gal and am get precision, cal gets range).
5. NK is a suicide AV tool as it will kill the user every time.
6. To NK, i personally find that running under 10 m/s is not going to get the job done, simply because of how much you have to run away or raptor attack people or get close behind them. However, to run above 10 m/s next patch, we won't be able to dampen, and with shared passives, everyone will see us, making our job impossible.
7. Our objective hacking will be too slow to ninja points because we can only fit one codebreaker, and the letter blinks once we start hacking, so everyone would know where we are, and will be able to track and kill us. If we fit > one codebreaker, were screwed because they see us before we head to the terminal.
8. Cloak active dampening bonus fixes all of these, while giving us a huge achilles heel as well--once the cloak wears off, we are very easily scanned by everything, so it adds a much larger dynamic to the ultimate hit-and-tun guerrilla warfare assassin that all minjas aim to be.
9. Please consider the implications of not adding this bonus.
1. You can't possibly know this. 2. Head-to-head, of course the SG wins. But neither weapon is designed for head-to-head engagement. 3. Fair point. CBs should've been moved to Highs. Maybe next build. 4. You also pack the strongest death punch available, Mr Assassin. 5. Point being? 6. Fair point, though "impossible" is a mischaracterization. 7. Switch suits if you need to ninja hack; you can't do everything with one loadout. 8. It also might make you overpowered. Why run anything else if the Minja can do it all? 9. WTF is that supposed to mean? Now you're embarrassing us. Edit: Let's take this one step at a time, Gav. We don't want to over do it.
I see where you're coming from shotty, and trust me, i don't want to make the minja OP, i really just want to make it viable.
Ill wait for Charlie, but when it comes out and minja's are the least used and most laughable suit on the field AGAIN, this bonus will need to be added.
Think for a second about what the implications are considering Haerr's scanning table. Now, scans were designed in such a manner that it would take two (2) low slots on each scout at the very least to remain under passives.
Now, with the minmitar scout, they need a cloak as well.
The idea behind the active damps bonus is that it frees up a low slot for the minja's out there by reducing the required damps to dodge passives by one, but maintaining the cloak requirement.
**ALSO: the gallogi focused would be able to scan a single damped cloaked minja**
All this does is allow them to fit more "ninja" modules (kin cats, code breakers) without having to worry as much about removing all of their viability simply to dodge scans.
Every other scout next patch receives some form of electronic sight bonus, therefore, the min should be best at what it was intended as--a speedy ass mofo running around creating havoc and picking off those who strayed away from the pack.
But remember, (and I'm sure we both agree here), a scanned scout is a DEAD scout.
By giving them an active damp bonus, you indirectly buff their speedy and hacking attributes, as all other modules that go in the low slots would just be stupid and hurt the min scout, other than perhaps an armor rep per and ferroscale.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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bogeyman m
Minmatar Republic
357
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 14:55:00 -
[54] - Quote
I just read all the posts so far... I must be missing something... Why no passive ewar for Min Scouts, like every other race gets.
Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1824
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 03:58:00 -
[55] - Quote
bumpily bump bump
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
682
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 13:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
bogeyman m wrote:I just read all the posts so far... I must be missing something... Why no passive ewar for Min Scouts, like every other race gets.
Because in Rust we Trust.
"One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p is my Minja Brother.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
684
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 13:58:00 -
[57] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
1. I just want to point out right now that even with the NK buffs, the min scout will still be behind every other scout on the field.
2. NK loses to SG every time, unless SGer is terribad.
3. Codebreakers remain low slots as well as dampeners and kin cats. As a minja post-charlie, it will be a requirement of at least 2 low slots dedicated to dampeners AND a proto cloak active to dodge amarr passives. However, we will still be scanned by gallogis. Therefore, we can't take advantage of our abilities.
4. We remain blind in relation to all other scouts (gal and am get precision, cal gets range).
5. NK is a suicide AV tool as it will kill the user every time.
6. To NK, i personally find that running under 10 m/s is not going to get the job done, simply because of how much you have to run away or raptor attack people or get close behind them. However, to run above 10 m/s next patch, we won't be able to dampen, and with shared passives, everyone will see us, making our job impossible.
7. Our objective hacking will be too slow to ninja points because we can only fit one codebreaker, and the letter blinks once we start hacking, so everyone would know where we are, and will be able to track and kill us. If we fit > one codebreaker, were screwed because they see us before we head to the terminal.
8. Cloak active dampening bonus fixes all of these, while giving us a huge achilles heel as well--once the cloak wears off, we are very easily scanned by everything, so it adds a much larger dynamic to the ultimate hit-and-tun guerrilla warfare assassin that all minjas aim to be.
9. Please consider the implications of not adding this bonus.
1. You can't possibly know this. 2. Head-to-head, of course the SG wins. But neither weapon is designed for head-to-head engagement. 3. Fair point. CBs should've been moved to Highs. Maybe next build. 4. You also pack the strongest death punch available, Mr Assassin. 5. Point being? 6. Fair point, though "impossible" is a mischaracterization. 7. Switch suits if you need to ninja hack; you can't do everything with one loadout. 8. It also might make you overpowered. Why run anything else if the Minja can do it all? 9. WTF is that supposed to mean? Now you're embarrassing us. Edit: Let's take this one step at a time, Gav. We don't want to over do it. I see where you're coming from shotty, and trust me, i don't want to make the minja OP, i really just want to make it viable. Ill wait for Charlie, but when it comes out and minja's are the least used and most laughable suit on the field AGAIN, this bonus will need to be added. Think for a second about what the implications are considering Haerr's scanning table. Now, scans were designed in such a manner that it would take two (2) low slots on each scout at the very least to remain under passives. Now, with the minmitar scout, they need a cloak as well. The idea behind the active damps bonus is that it frees up a low slot for the minja's out there by reducing the required damps to dodge passives by one, but maintaining the cloak requirement. **ALSO: the gallogi focused would be able to scan a single damped cloaked minja** All this does is allow them to fit more "ninja" modules (kin cats, code breakers) without having to worry as much about removing all of their viability simply to dodge scans. Every other scout next patch receives some form of electronic sight bonus, therefore, the min should be best at what it was intended as--a speedy ass mofo running around creating havoc and picking off those who strayed away from the pack. But remember, (and I'm sure we both agree here), a scanned scout is a DEAD scout. By giving them an active damp bonus, you indirectly buff their speedy and hacking attributes, as all other modules that go in the low slots would just be stupid and hurt the min scout, other than perhaps an armor rep per and ferroscale, but this prevents them from taking advantage of their knifing bonus, as they will be slower than a single kincatted assault suit, making it nearly impossible to use NK's.
This also doesn't require codebreakers moving to High slots, since active dampening helps fitting optimization for the rest of the EWAR modules. Of course, just as Gav mentioned, we will mention this after Hotfix Charlie.
"One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p is my Minja Brother.
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
684
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Bormir1r wrote:True Adamance wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Wow, what a compelling, well thought out argument! Your evidence and analysis of said argument are so factual and logical that you must be right! I remember a time the "Pr0 l33t Scounts" said Amarr Scout is going to be OP with its initial bonuses. They couldn't have been more wrong. Coupling NK damage, hacking bonuses, the fastest Stamina recharge rate, and the fastest movement values..... You guys quite frankly don't deserve any more that you already have. Our movement values aren't very significant....seriously; they don't make a difference against high RoF weapons which basically everybody spams. Also the gallente scout get nearly (like a 5% difference) in terms of sprint speed, and movement speed doesn't feel any different either. On top of that we have the lowest eHP, so since movement speed doesn't make up for it we need some eWAR (hacking doesn't really help you fight at all). And NK are usless if you're caught on radar and since we don't have any eWAR makes it pretty easy to scan us. ..... your point? You already have bonuses that are designed to reflect the characteristic play style of a Minmatar scout. Let me ask you this? When was the last time a Minmatar ship in EVE was any better or worse at cloaking than any other ship in the game? Why do you even believe you deserve a bonus at all? You have two good ones working for you now with the biotics to back them up. Sure you might lack EHP but thats no reason your cloaks should be better than anyone else's.
The reason why we "deserve" a bonus is because:
1. We have the lowest PG
2. Our hacking bonus isn't significant enough to make it worth running min scouts, especially when you're enemy sees you on the radar to go hack.
3. NK can only be used when you're enemy doesn't know you're coming, (just like above).
This means we can't put codebreakers because we've already started fitting kincats and dampeners to stay under the radar to even utilize our current bonuses efficiently.
To stay under the radar frequently Min scouts need 2 damps, that leaves 1 low slot (on mk.0 mind you, imagine the fitting problems for lower tier minjas) which would be used for Kin cats, which is supposed to help utilize our "speed" which is supposed to one of MIn Scout's huge advantages with the lack of eHP.
The huge problem I'm trying to underly here is that the MInmatar scout has to sacrifice too much to even efficiently use our skills properly, making the Min scout UP, as well as underused.
However it is possible this will change after Hotfix Charlie due to Scout bonus changes, but in the event that the Min scout is still behind other scouts, this feature (active dampening) should be seriously considered as a balancing mechanism for the Minmatar scout.
"One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p is my Minja Brother.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1837
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Posted - 2014.08.04 03:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
For True: Look at the scan tables. The functionality of this buff is based off of the "scanned scout is a dead scout", meaning that all scouts need to dodge at the very least passive scans. This requires two low slots which eat into the available slots for code breakers and kin cats, making it impossible for the Minja to emphasize its racial advantages because of the lack of slots.
The buff basically takes the scans that the minja dodges (currently-2 damps+cloak dodges passives) and allows them to dodge the passives with one less low slot.
Without cloak, they would be scanned all the same.
This is basically a way to give minja's the extra low slot they need to perform their duties without actually giving them an extra low slot (which would be OP).
QCC?
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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BLOOD Ruler
The Lionheart Coalition
641
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Posted - 2014.08.04 04:38:00 -
[60] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:For True: Look at the scan tables. The functionality of this buff is based off of the "scanned scout is a dead scout", meaning that all scouts need to dodge at the very least passive scans. This requires two low slots which eat into the available slots for code breakers and kin cats, making it impossible for the Minja to emphasize its racial advantages because of the lack of slots.
The buff basically takes the scans that the minja dodges (currently-2 damps+cloak dodges passives) and allows them to dodge the passives with one less low slot.
Without cloak, they would be scanned all the same.
This is basically a way to give minja's the extra low slot they need to perform their duties without actually giving them an extra low slot (which would be OP).
QCC?
Scanned scout is a dead scout,like a slow scout is a dead scout.My motto
Feel the pain of my knives and the piercing pain your skull has felt to my pistol.I am the Assassin.
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