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Posted - 2014.07.31 23:42:00 -
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:True Adamance wrote: I remember a time the "Pr0 l33t Scounts" said Amarr Scout is going to be OP with its initial bonuses. They couldn't have been more wrong.
No one said it would be "OP", thats blatant fabrication.
Sorry, TA, but I call bullsh!t.
We never claimed that the Amarr Scout would be OP. What we did do was pitch alternative bonus ideas at you guys, none of which were deemed good enough for your golden boy. If you don't like what you ended up with, then you guys should've come up with something better ... instead of moaning and playing the victim.
Don't try to pin your failures on us after the fact.
@ Minmatar Bonus
We'll need a week or two of Charlie to determine whether or not the Minmatar Scout remains last-in-class.
The knife damage bonus and hack bonus are both significant. Excellent stamina, movement and slot layouts also work to the suit's advantage. The suit has been historically plagued by PG restrictions, but this factor will likely be less at issue post-Charlie. To quote a brother scout, there has never been a better time to be a Minja.
In earlier balance discussions, MinScout figureheads insisted that they retain all existing perks. My primary concern is that adding this active dampening bonus (which is a great idea, by the way) atop existing bonuses would return a Scout that is head and shoulders better than its peers.
Scouts are trying hard to do away with their current FotM status; we do not want to create another.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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3469
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Posted - 2014.07.31 23:58:00 -
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True Adamance wrote: Very distinctly remember you guys stoicly defending keeping the Amarr bonus as an MLT Cardiac Regulator and refusing to acknowledge the imbalances and allow us to pitch a STD or ADV regulator.
Correct.
We recognized that the Amarr Scout bonus was crappy, which is why we pitched alternative bonuses. You guys didn't like our ideas, so we asked you for your ideas. At some point it became clear that you didn't have any solutions ... only lots of complaints ... so we gave up on you and left you to your fate.
And then we trolled you a little 'bit. We were all very annoyed with you guys.
Edit: The Amarr Scout didn't end up that bad by the way; the Minmatar Scout is in worse condition. Both are underperform Gal/Cal, but these two are arguably overpowered.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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3473
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Posted - 2014.08.01 01:01:00 -
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Cass Caul wrote:Fairly certain True is specifically speaking about how most scouts, myself included, were against giving the Amarr Scout a bonus of 20% per level to stamina and stamina recovery instead of a 5% bonus.
You, Shotty, are talking about our suggestions we collected after the hot-fixes started.
I'm referring to the talks leading up to 1.8. Aero (if I recall correctly) came into the Barbershop looking for an alternative bonus. I recall a 'bit of back-and-forth between us and him, Magnus and perhaps another Amarr Head. They didn't like what we came up with. They didn't have any ideas of of their own.
I could be wrong; memories are not reliable. Its all recorded, somewhere in the threadnaught :-)
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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3484
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Posted - 2014.08.01 13:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote: P.S. The new bonus is sh*t too, precision with two highs is stupid we should of got range amplifiers instead.
I've cold feet about the "precision switch" as well, but I understand the thinking and it might end up working out well. The CalScout's scans were simply too good and left little room for MinScout to function; the "precision switch" might have been avoided if we'd pitched Borimir's idea in advance of Charlie talks. But again, the MinScouts themselves ardently opposed trading an existing bonus out for another.
We'll have to see how it pans out.
PS: A straight biotic bonus or a ferro/reactive bonus would've been great for the Amarr. An ScP RoF bonus alone would've likely generated more complaints than the current stamina bonus.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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3484
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Posted - 2014.08.01 13:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:See the thing is with Charlie the Amarr and Cal scouts maim ewar mods don't take up their main tank causing there to be a select few that see this as a 650+ armor tanks 360 scanner running around with combat rifles (on an amarr suit ) the gal scout gives up tank for damps and the matar is just speed and KN oriented so yeah. Just seems like Ratati messed up scouts with all the complaining.
This will be addressed in Delta with efficacy bonuses and/or armor penalties.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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3495
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Posted - 2014.08.01 15:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: 1. I just want to point out right now that even with the NK buffs, the min scout will still be behind every other scout on the field.
2. NK loses to SG every time, unless SGer is terribad.
3. Codebreakers remain low slots as well as dampeners and kin cats. As a minja post-charlie, it will be a requirement of at least 2 low slots dedicated to dampeners AND a proto cloak active to dodge amarr passives. However, we will still be scanned by gallogis. Therefore, we can't take advantage of our abilities.
4. We remain blind in relation to all other scouts (gal and am get precision, cal gets range).
5. NK is a suicide AV tool as it will kill the user every time.
6. To NK, i personally find that running under 10 m/s is not going to get the job done, simply because of how much you have to run away or raptor attack people or get close behind them. However, to run above 10 m/s next patch, we won't be able to dampen, and with shared passives, everyone will see us, making our job impossible.
7. Our objective hacking will be too slow to ninja points because we can only fit one codebreaker, and the letter blinks once we start hacking, so everyone would know where we are, and will be able to track and kill us. If we fit > one codebreaker, were screwed because they see us before we head to the terminal.
8. Cloak active dampening bonus fixes all of these, while giving us a huge achilles heel as well--once the cloak wears off, we are very easily scanned by everything, so it adds a much larger dynamic to the ultimate hit-and-tun guerrilla warfare assassin that all minjas aim to be.
9. Please consider the implications of not adding this bonus.
1. You can't possibly know this. 2. Head-to-head, of course the SG wins. But neither weapon is designed for head-to-head engagement. 3. Fair point. CBs should've been moved to Highs. Maybe next build. 4. You also pack the highest alpha death punch available. 5. Point being? 6. Fair point. 7. Switch suits if you need to ninja hack; you can't do everything with one loadout. 8. It also might make you overpowered. Why run anything else if the Minja can do it all? 9. WTF is that supposed to mean? Quit being an idiot, Gav. You're embarrassing us.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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