DUST Search - Minmatar Scout needs a little bit more love.

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

I remember a time the "Pr0 l33t Scounts" said Amarr Scout is going to be OP with its initial bonuses. They couldn't have been more wrong.

No one said it would be "OP", thats blatant fabrication.

Sorry, TA, but I call bullsh!t.

We never claimed that the Amarr Scout would be OP. What we did do was pitch alternative bonus ideas at you guys, none of which were deemed good enough for your golden boy. If you don't like what you ended up with, then you guys should've come up with something better ... instead of moaning and playing the victim.

Don't try to pin your failures on us after the fact.

@ Minmatar Bonus

We'll need a week or two of Charlie to determine whether or not the Minmatar Scout remains last-in-class.

The knife damage bonus and hack bonus are both significant. Excellent stamina, movement and slot layouts also work to the suit's advantage. The suit has been historically plagued by PG restrictions, but this factor will likely be less at issue post-Charlie.

In earlier balance discussions, Minja figureheads insisted that they retain all existing perks. My primary concern is that adding this active dampening bonus (which is a great idea, by the way) atop existing bonuses would return a Scout that is head and shoulders better than the others.

Scouts are trying hard to do away with their current FotM status; we do not want to create another.

"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon

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Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 636	Posted - 2014.07.31 15:25:00 - [1] - Quote After Hotfix Charlie there's going to be a "slight" increase in the number of Minmatar Scouts, mostly because NK are going to be a lot more popular. However the Minmatar Scout will fall behind other scouts because it loses on the EWAR advantages. To Balance the Min scout on the EWAR front, we ought to add "Active Dampening" to it. This would be done by increasing the Dampening bonus on cloaks for exclusively Minmatar Scouts. Basic Cloak: 15% Dampening Bonus Adv Cloak: 25% Dampening Bonus Proto: 35% Dampening Bonus Cloak time remains constant. Adding this vital component would give the Min scout the push it needs to be in line with the rest of scouts and fits the role of "hit and run"/CQC tactics. It also still provides the Precision Scanner Scouts to still have a large opportunity of taking one the Min scouts. "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that. NK are my Teeth, Kin Cats are my Legs.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 193	Posted - 2014.07.31 15:40:00 - [2] - Quote as a logi i have quite the masochistic streak and enjoy when i get shanked by a Minja instead of double tapped by any hood in a light/scout suit with a shotgun +1 for giving minja's hope Logibro in training. Weapon Damage Profiles Quick List
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3731	Posted - 2014.07.31 16:17:00 - [3] - Quote No Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! The eyes of God compelles you!!!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1777	Posted - 2014.07.31 16:23:00 - [4] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: No Wow, what a compelling, well thought out argument! Your evidence and analysis of said argument are so factual and logical that you must be right! "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 195	Posted - 2014.07.31 16:26:00 - [5] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: No Wow, what a compelling, well thought out argument! Your evidence and analysis of said argument are so factual and logical that you must be right! they just hating on any NON cal/gal scouts they jelly of the power Minja's will hold :P Logibro in training. Weapon Damage Profiles Quick List
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3731	Posted - 2014.07.31 16:54:00 - [6] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: No Wow, what a compelling, well thought out argument! Your evidence and analysis of said argument are so factual and logical that you must be right! they just hating on any NON cal/gal scouts they jelly of the power Minja's will hold :P Besides just trolling I'd never touch gallente nor Cal scouts because I'm strictly Amarr oriented. Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! The eyes of God compelles you!!!
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 642	Posted - 2014.07.31 19:06:00 - [7] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: No Wow, what a compelling, well thought out argument! Your evidence and analysis of said argument are so factual and logical that you must be right! they just hating on any NON cal/gal scouts they jelly of the power Minja's will hold :P Besides just trolling I'd never touch gallente nor Cal scouts because I'm strictly Amarr oriented. So what's wrong with Minmatar lol? "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that. NK are my Teeth, Kin Cats are my Legs.
BLOOD Ruler The Lionheart Coalition 601	Posted - 2014.07.31 20:27:00 - [8] - Quote That or make it so cloak recharge is short and an a 1percent damp to cloaks for being a speeding assassin. Feel the pain of my knives and the piercing pain your skull has felt to my pistol.I am the Assassin.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 646	Posted - 2014.07.31 21:52:00 - [9] - Quote BLOOD Ruler wrote: That or make it so cloak recharge is short and an a 1percent damp to cloaks for being a speeding assassin. How does that 1% damp help ?? 1% of 33 is insignificant; ( .033). That won't help being a "speedy assassin" lol. "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that. NK are my Teeth, Kin Cats are my Legs.
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3745	Posted - 2014.07.31 22:01:00 - [10] - Quote If Minjas get active damps then I want my 25 percent back on my Ganja! Or is it Ginja? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire

Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 647	Posted - 2014.07.31 22:02:00 - [11] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: If Minjas get active damps then I want my 25 percent back on my Ganja! Or is it Ginja? Agreed and It's Ginja "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that. NK are my Teeth, Kin Cats are my Legs.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12440	Posted - 2014.07.31 22:02:00 - [12] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: No Wow, what a compelling, well thought out argument! Your evidence and analysis of said argument are so factual and logical that you must be right! I remember a time the "Pr0 l33t Scounts" said Amarr Scout is going to be OP with its initial bonuses. They couldn't have been more wrong. Coupling NK damage, hacking bonuses, the fastest Stamina recharge rate, and the fastest movement values..... You guys quite frankly don't deserve any more that you already have. Especially in the case for cloaking modules. Why the **** do you believe your suit deserves any better bonus to cloaking than any other race? Answer: You don't. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 647	Posted - 2014.07.31 22:07:00 - [13] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: No Wow, what a compelling, well thought out argument! Your evidence and analysis of said argument are so factual and logical that you must be right! I remember a time the "Pr0 l33t Scounts" said Amarr Scout is going to be OP with its initial bonuses. They couldn't have been more wrong. Coupling NK damage, hacking bonuses, the fastest Stamina recharge rate, and the fastest movement values..... You guys quite frankly don't deserve any more that you already have. Our movement values aren't very significant....seriously; they don't make a difference against high RoF weapons which basically everybody spams. Also the gallente scout get nearly (like a 5% difference) in terms of sprint speed, and movement speed doesn't feel any different either. On top of that we have the lowest eHP, so since movement speed doesn't make up for it we need some eWAR (hacking doesn't really help you fight at all). And NK are usless if you're caught on radar and since we don't have any eWAR makes it pretty easy to scan us. "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that. NK are my Teeth, Kin Cats are my Legs.
Ahkhomi Cypher Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 170	Posted - 2014.07.31 22:09:00 - [14] - Quote To get that bonus we are probably gonna lose the hacking bonus which im ok with. The amount of "why do they get 3!?!?" would be ridiculous if we didn't and balancing 4 scouts with 3 different bonuses each may get crazy. If we lose the NK bonus somebody's getting kicked in the **** irl. edit alot of stuff was said as i was typing that. Opus Arcana \| TBD Ringleader \| Yep Squad Spokesman
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12440	Posted - 2014.07.31 22:22:00 - [15] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: True Adamance wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: No Wow, what a compelling, well thought out argument! Your evidence and analysis of said argument are so factual and logical that you must be right! I remember a time the "Pr0 l33t Scounts" said Amarr Scout is going to be OP with its initial bonuses. They couldn't have been more wrong. Coupling NK damage, hacking bonuses, the fastest Stamina recharge rate, and the fastest movement values..... You guys quite frankly don't deserve any more that you already have. Our movement values aren't very significant....seriously; they don't make a difference against high RoF weapons which basically everybody spams. Also the gallente scout get nearly (like a 5% difference) in terms of sprint speed, and movement speed doesn't feel any different either. On top of that we have the lowest eHP, so since movement speed doesn't make up for it we need some eWAR (hacking doesn't really help you fight at all). And NK are usless if you're caught on radar and since we don't have any eWAR makes it pretty easy to scan us. ..... your point? You already have bonuses that are designed to reflect the characteristic play style of a Minmatar scout. Let me ask you this? When was the last time a Minmatar ship in EVE was any better or worse at cloaking than any other ship in the game? Why do you even believe you deserve a bonus at all? You have two good ones working for you now with the biotics to back them up. Sure you might lack EHP but thats no reason your cloaks should be better than anyone else's. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2578	Posted - 2014.07.31 22:26:00 - [16] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: If Minjas get active damps then I want my 25 percent back on my Ganja! Or is it Ginja? Agreed and It's Ginja Neither. It's a Spook. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1783	Posted - 2014.07.31 22:41:00 - [17] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: No Wow, what a compelling, well thought out argument! Your evidence and analysis of said argument are so factual and logical that you must be right! I remember a time the "Pr0 l33t Scounts" said Amarr Scout is going to be OP with its initial bonuses. They couldn't have been more wrong. Coupling NK damage, hacking bonuses, the fastest Stamina recharge rate, and the fastest movement values..... You guys quite frankly don't deserve any more that you already have. Especially in the case for cloaking modules. Why the **** do you believe your suit deserves any better bonus to cloaking than any other race? Answer: You don't. No one said it would be "OP", thats blatant fabrication. Fast move values=sh!t with the largest hit box of all scouts. Am get eWAR next patch, why not minmitar? "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 205	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:16:00 - [18] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: No Wow, what a compelling, well thought out argument! Your evidence and analysis of said argument are so factual and logical that you must be right! they just hating on any NON cal/gal scouts they jelly of the power Minja's will hold :P Besides just trolling I'd never touch gallente nor Cal scouts because I'm strictly Amarr oriented. as i believe form reading scout threads amarr scouts seem to be a great scout because of the slot layout (atleast till charlie) Logibro in training. Weapon Damage Profiles Quick List
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 205	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:17:00 - [19] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: If Minjas get active damps then I want my 25 percent back on my Ganja! Or is it Ginja? Agreed and It's Ginja or maybe Ginger.. like the unloved ginger stepchild they are. :P Logibro in training. Weapon Damage Profiles Quick List
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3734	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:19:00 - [20] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: True Adamance wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: No Wow, what a compelling, well thought out argument! Your evidence and analysis of said argument are so factual and logical that you must be right! I remember a time the "Pr0 l33t Scounts" said Amarr Scout is going to be OP with its initial bonuses. They couldn't have been more wrong. Coupling NK damage, hacking bonuses, the fastest Stamina recharge rate, and the fastest movement values..... You guys quite frankly don't deserve any more that you already have. Especially in the case for cloaking modules. Why the **** do you believe your suit deserves any better bonus to cloaking than any other race? Answer: You don't. No one said it would be "OP", thats blatant fabrication. Fast move values=sh!t with the largest hit box of all scouts. Am get eWAR next patch, why not minmitar? Because you had a defined role already Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! The eyes of God compelles you!!!

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3467	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:42:00 - [21] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: True Adamance wrote: I remember a time the "Pr0 l33t Scounts" said Amarr Scout is going to be OP with its initial bonuses. They couldn't have been more wrong. No one said it would be "OP", thats blatant fabrication. Sorry, TA, but I call bullsh!t. We never claimed that the Amarr Scout would be OP. What we did do was pitch alternative bonus ideas at you guys, none of which were deemed good enough for your golden boy. If you don't like what you ended up with, then you guys should've come up with something better ... instead of moaning and playing the victim. Don't try to pin your failures on us after the fact. @ Minmatar Bonus We'll need a week or two of Charlie to determine whether or not the Minmatar Scout remains last-in-class. The knife damage bonus and hack bonus are both significant. Excellent stamina, movement and slot layouts also work to the suit's advantage. The suit has been historically plagued by PG restrictions, but this factor will likely be less at issue post-Charlie. To quote a brother scout, there has never been a better time to be a Minja. In earlier balance discussions, MinScout figureheads insisted that they retain all existing perks. My primary concern is that adding this active dampening bonus (which is a great idea, by the way) atop existing bonuses would return a Scout that is head and shoulders better than its peers. Scouts are trying hard to do away with their current FotM status; we do not want to create another. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12449	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:46:00 - [22] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: True Adamance wrote: I remember a time the "Pr0 l33t Scounts" said Amarr Scout is going to be OP with its initial bonuses. They couldn't have been more wrong. No one said it would be "OP", thats blatant fabrication. Sorry, TA, but I call bullsh!t. We never claimed that the Amarr Scout would be OP. What we did do was pitch alternative bonus ideas at you guys, none of which were deemed good enough for your golden boy. If you don't like what you ended up with, then you guys should've come up with something better ... instead of moaning and playing the victim. Don't try to pin your failures on us after the fact. @ Minmatar Bonus We'll need a week or two of Charlie to determine whether or not the Minmatar Scout remains last-in-class. The knife damage bonus and hack bonus are both significant. Excellent stamina, movement and slot layouts also work to the suit's advantage. The suit has been historically plagued by PG restrictions, but this factor will likely be less at issue post-Charlie. In earlier balance discussions, Minja figureheads insisted that they retain all existing perks. My primary concern is that adding this active dampening bonus (which is a great idea, by the way) atop existing bonuses would return a Scout that is head and shoulders better than the others. Scouts are trying hard to do away with their current FotM status; we do not want to create another. Very distinctly remember you guys stoicly defending keeping the Amarr bonus as an MLT Cardiac Regulator and refusing to acknowledge the imbalances and allow us to pitch a STD or ADV regulator. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3469	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:58:00 - [23] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Very distinctly remember you guys stoicly defending keeping the Amarr bonus as an MLT Cardiac Regulator and refusing to acknowledge the imbalances and allow us to pitch a STD or ADV regulator. Correct. We recognized that the Amarr Scout bonus was crappy, which is why we pitched alternative bonuses. You guys didn't like our ideas, so we asked you for your ideas. At some point it became clear that you didn't have any solutions ... only lots of complaints ... so we gave up on you and left you to your fate. And then we trolled you a little 'bit. We were all very annoyed with you guys. Edit: The Amarr Scout didn't end up that bad by the way; the Minmatar Scout is in worse condition. Both are underperform Gal/Cal, but these two are arguably overpowered. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Cass Caul 189	Posted - 2014.08.01 00:47:00 - [24] - Quote Fairly certain True is specifically speaking about how most scouts, myself included, were against giving the Amarr Scout a bonus of 20% per level to stamina and stamina recovery instead of a 5% bonus. If you can't keep up, shut up. Math is easy, you're just stupid. The Empress of Alts
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12454	Posted - 2014.08.01 00:49:00 - [25] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Fairly certain True is specifically speaking about how most scouts, myself included, were against giving the Amarr Scout a bonus of 20% per level to stamina and stamina recovery instead of a 5% bonus. You, Shotty, are talking about our suggestions we collected after the hot-fixes started. I think we even suggested 7.5-10%...somewhere in the region to make the scout bonus viable....it was swiftly struck down. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3473	Posted - 2014.08.01 01:01:00 - [26] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Fairly certain True is specifically speaking about how most scouts, myself included, were against giving the Amarr Scout a bonus of 20% per level to stamina and stamina recovery instead of a 5% bonus. You, Shotty, are talking about our suggestions we collected after the hot-fixes started. I'm referring to the talks leading up to 1.8. Aero (if I recall correctly) came into the Barbershop looking for an alternative bonus. I recall a 'bit of back-and-forth between us and him, Magnus and perhaps another Amarr Head. They didn't like what we came up with. They didn't have any ideas of of their own. I could be wrong; memories are not reliable. Its all recorded, somewhere in the threadnaught :-) Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Cass Caul 189	Posted - 2014.08.01 01:09:00 - [27] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Cass Caul wrote: Fairly certain True is specifically speaking about how most scouts, myself included, were against giving the Amarr Scout a bonus of 20% per level to stamina and stamina recovery instead of a 5% bonus. You, Shotty, are talking about our suggestions we collected after the hot-fixes started. I think we even suggested 7.5-10%...somewhere in the region to make the scout bonus viable....it was swiftly struck down. Caught in the cross-fire. It was/is a stupid bonus and the Amarr Scout should never have had it in the first place. The need something that fits, and there's a comprimise between the players and rattati of giving Amarr Precision and Stamina. Yay! No one wins! If you can't keep up, shut up. Math is easy, you're just stupid. The Empress of Alts
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1065	Posted - 2014.08.01 01:57:00 - [28] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Fairly certain True is specifically speaking about how most scouts, myself included, were against giving the Amarr Scout a bonus of 20% per level to stamina and stamina recovery instead of a 5% bonus. That's seriously all I asked for when the bonus was announced. Give me 100% at level 5 and I would have been more than happy. Amarrica! It's Not Safe to Swim.
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 415	Posted - 2014.08.01 06:27:00 - [29] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: No Wow, what a compelling, well thought out argument! Your evidence and analysis of said argument are so factual and logical that you must be right! nope Minmatar just need bonus to resistance against whip
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 415	Posted - 2014.08.01 06:29:00 - [30] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: True Adamance wrote: Cass Caul wrote: Fairly certain True is specifically speaking about how most scouts, myself included, were against giving the Amarr Scout a bonus of 20% per level to stamina and stamina recovery instead of a 5% bonus. You, Shotty, are talking about our suggestions we collected after the hot-fixes started. I think we even suggested 7.5-10%...somewhere in the region to make the scout bonus viable....it was swiftly struck down. Caught in the cross-fire. It was/is a stupid bonus and the Amarr Scout should never have had it in the first place. The need something that fits, and there's a comprimise between the players and rattati of giving Amarr Precision and Stamina. Yay! No one wins! 5 is lucky number to ccp ahem ..... dust *14



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