You have given no valid reason but your own opinion of why they should based on what you think about the numbers.

You then repeatedly call people stupid.

Looking good mate, carry on.

Logis don't need to be buffed.

Calling people dumb really doesn't help your case either.

I have both min assault and logi. My best logi fit has around 800 eHP and nearly all proto equipment. This suit is an absolute monster when supporting your squad like you are supposed to. Drop links for heavies to spawn on, drop ammo for everyone, scan the field, and latch on to your heavies. None of these actions require you to have higher speed, regen, or hp. In fact if you as a logistics are taking high amounts of damage from direct fire, you're doing it wrong. You job is to support.

The assault on the other hand has to get in there and engage the enemy. This means dealing with hmg 1500 hp heavies. Dancing with shotgun scouts. Fending of other assaults. Assaults need high speed, hp and regen to do these things with minimal eWar or logistic support. That is their role.

The logi is currently a very important role in PC as much so as heavies and scouts. A single logi can make 2 heavies seem like 4. Point is, this tells me that the role is in a good place and is balanced currently.

Logis don't need to be buffed.

After charlie logistics will be unfairly gimped for the costs.

The only reason logistics are in PCs is because scouts can't use equipment better,otherwise there would be 0 logistics in PCs.

logistics is in PCs because of it's bonuses,not it's survival rate.

For example... Have you seen any Cal logistics in PCs? I haven't.
It's either min for reps or amarr for uplinks.

There is nothing balanced about low eHP and low speed with easily 250k isk costs,and 2x the Sp investment.

Also,any fulltime logistics would know that you are shot at first as soon as they see you are repping.Not second,not third,first.
Enemies will shoot pass your ally to kill you.Scouts will make kamikaze charges that you could survive if you could dodge faster and regen better.

Not to mention pot shots from a RR from that speck on the ridge halfway across the map only tapping you to prevent your shields from recharging. All because he zoomed in and saw 'logistics' on his targeting information (which should be removed IMHO).
Regen would help during those times.

No not that, its just that your opinion on what you think about them is just an opinion.

There's no debate on the numbers.

Your opinion is as worthless as mine but your hype about how gimped they are is exactly that, just a hype.

You are making out like they are going to get annihilated.

Ok Meee One, now I'm pretty sure you are just trolling.

People not reviving you because you are a logi?

People ignoring objectives and chasing you into the redline because you are a logi?

Singling you out with orbitals?

Made me laugh.

Logis do need a buff because as people have pointed out, they shouldn't be slaying, they should be logi-ing. This means that they don't have the luxury of fighting back all the time, should they be engaged. They need high health, medium regen, slow speed compared to other medium suits. Assaults should be fast regen, medium health, medium speed.

Now, about slayer logis. What makes a suit a "slayer"? The ability to kill more often than other types of suits. The reason we had slayer logis in the first place was because there wasn't a suit built around slaying. Assaults had no bonuses around slaying for a long time (shield recharge on a Gallente assault, anyone remember that?) I outline here my idea for helping the assault suit be the slayer suit, as they are intended to be. Highlights include:

1. Assaults get the 2% light/sidearm damage per level that commandos have. ommandos get 20% incrased mag size and max ammo per level.

2. Assaults get a bonus to their racial weapon, and possibly a bonus to racial tank, if need be.

3. Assaults lose their equipment slot.

These changes, which go into more detail in my thread, allow assaults to be better slayers, while giving up their equipment slot so that they must rely on the logi for ammo, reps, links, etc. The logi relies on the assaults to protect it, since it has no bonuses to weapon damage, and thus cannot go toe to toe with another assault suit. This creates a mutual reliance on each other where the whole squad is more powerful than the sum of its parts.

'Going to'?
Lol,they do now!

It will be even worse after charlie!

In ANY gunfight logistics is always the first killed,even when not using equipment.

I've been in matches where all the logis were massacred by scouts and heavies and even assaults.

The assaults,scouts and heavies on my team died 2-3 times max,the logis including myself were hunted vigorously i died 6 times and i was the one with the best survival rate.

It's was so bad the enemies ignored the objective to charge into the redline to kill logis.

A group of assaults heavies and scouts were closely clustered together,but did you know who the enemies OBd?
A single logistics trying to run away and survive.


All the logis got negative KD/Rs and less than 100 wps.No one was covering any of us,and they didn't kill the enemies attacking us until we were already downed.

They didn't revive a single logistics,they would walk on by with a needle and pick up the suit next to you,because it wasn't a logistics.


I'm experiencing matches like that more and more frequently,and i feel i have the right to survive in cases like that where your plight is being ignored by allies and being exploited by enemies.

'Going to'?
Lol,they do now!

It will be even worse after charlie!

In ANY gunfight logistics is always the first killed,even when not using equipment.

I've been in matches where all the logis were massacred by scouts and heavies and even assaults.

The assaults,scouts and heavies on my team died 2-3 times max,the logis including myself were hunted vigorously i died 6 times and i was the one with the best survival rate.

It's was so bad the enemies ignored the objective to charge into the redline to kill logis.

A group of assaults heavies and scouts were closely clustered together,but did you know who the enemies OBd?
A single logistics trying to run away and survive.


All the logis got negative KD/Rs and less than 100 wps.No one was covering any of us,and they didn't kill the enemies attacking us until we were already downed.

They didn't revive a single logistics,they would walk on by with a needle and pick up the suit next to you,because it wasn't a logistics.


I'm experiencing matches like that more and more frequently,and i feel i have the right to survive in cases like that where your plight is being ignored by allies and being exploited by enemies.

'Going to'?
Lol,they do now!

It will be even worse after charlie!

In ANY gunfight logistics is always the first killed,even when not using equipment.

Logis as a class need to be looked at. As of now, their:

bonuses are lackluster
eHP is lackluster
speed is lackluster
regen is lackluster
survivability is lackluster
cost to field is lackluster

What isn't lackluster? Well, resources, equipment...

A critical look at the Logistics class would be welcome. But, looking at things critically is not easy for people content with the status quo.

My Amarr bonus is limited as it is oft-times broken.
My Minmatar bonus is great, but minmatar suits have such low innate survivability that playing against decent players is a chore.
My Gallente bonus is awful. Active scanners are badly implemented, and regardless, scans are not beneficial to your team like EVERY OTHER equipment. Plus, WP accrual is garbage.
My Caldari bonus is okay, but Nanohives have odd behaviours that can limit rewards.


There are problems. Just because Logis are not broken does not mean they are "fine." Just because they caused problems in the past does not mean they should not be looked at with a critical eye [again].

Critical thinking?.

No offence but its impossible to think critically about a problem that doesn't exist and the only arguments I see are stemming from lack of player skill and gear at best.

Iv run logi since beta and believe me, it actually was lacking back then.

Read more of the thread.

The average cost for a Pro logistics with all equipment is easily 250k isk.
Assaults Are half that.

The average sp investment is 2x that of an assault as well.

That is why.

And everyone here is of the concensus logistics shouldn't get buffed even after such a hefty investment?


You are all the dumbest people i have ever met.

In other games my dedication would be rewarded by having survivability.

And WP isn't a 'reward' i can't use WP to stop damage and i can't use it to buy fittings.

logis need HEALTH to do logi stuff under fire, how hard can this be to understand?

Get a heavy meat-sheild.

There fixed.

Logis have 30 more eHP than their scout equivalent.
Logis are slower than basic mediums.
Logis have low regen.

Assaults have about 75-80 more eHP than logis.
Faster than basic mediums.
Faster regen than their logi equivalent.

After charlie:
Logis have 30 more eHP than their scout equivalent.
Logis are slower than basic mediums.
Logis have low regen.


Assaults have 200 more eHP than their logi equivalent.
Faster than basic mediums.
Faster regen than their logi equivalent.
+1 Slot to be equal with their logi equivalent.
More CPU/PG



Logis aren't "fine" or "balanced".

Logis are horribly broken and assaults will be another monsterously OP suit for them to deal with.

Just like the AR being OP at one point players will shriek and yell and come up with excuses as to why logis shouldn't get buffed.
These are fools and should be ignored.

Logis need a buff CCP,i'm getting tired of saying it.

If assaults get eHP give logis speed and regen.

Logis are being abandoned,and this should never happen to a specialist.

Basics should be terrible,not the ones that actually take investment.



I want an actual response to this post CCP, because you're about to shaft logis again.

Seeing assaults will be getting 8 OP slots as well as OP base stats,logis deserve speed and regen.

smh

The concerns we're having is the projected enivonmental conditions we will be in will be extremely difficult to survive in in, let alone thrive working, unless we basically brick the **** out of the fit. Bricktanking which then makes us even slower, hindering us moving with the squad, keeping the repper locked (which for some reason has become a real ***** lately), getting in and out cover to do the revives (which no one wants done unless the area has been fully cleared, but we're by increasing design NOT going to be to do) or running any forms of passive ewar ( precs or damp) etc etc etc.

This argument based on slots/slot counts is a red herring and misses the point.

The base stat values for logis currently are lacking. We manage, and many of us are productive because, yes, we balance the base shortfalls with module layouts. However, considering the base buffs that have been and will be granted to ALL the other frames, without some buff to our base as well the ONLY survivable fitting will be one that basically bricktanks! I CAN NOT rep you if I am DEAD! Uplinks will NOT be replenished if I am DEAD. Hives will not be deployed if I am DEAD! And the only, ONLY, way that I can be guaranteed to be protected as I am protecting YOU would be if :

1. My base stats are reflective of the environment and conditions I am expected to perform in

OR

2. Protection of the logistics class by all other roles is implicitly mandated by virtue of removal of ALL equipment slots from EVERY other class. If the redeeming virtue of logis which balances their lack in base stats is equipment then we should be the ONLY class capable of carrying it. Links, HIVs, Scanners, Reppers, PROXES AND RE's. Scouts can keep toting cloaks.



TL,DR- Small, buffing tweaks to logis' base stats (movement speed, db, sprint speed, ehp) can be done without inspiring their use as better assaults, will keep them evenly balanced for their role relative to the other roles/suits and is a better option than projected alternatives (total bricktanks next to useless from stacking or a substantial exodus from the role). Its not about wanting to slay or live forever. Its about not being 250k isk tissue paper tigers responsible for supporting 5+ others.

how about a buff to base EHP and a reduction of high/low slots? so 200 more EHP (after passive skills so 160 before passives) at the cost of 2 high/lows? this will give you the bennifits of bricktanking without the drawbacks (i.e. loss of speed, slower regen ect) and as a result will also reduce fitting costs (isk) at the cost of fitting versatility.

i cannot support logistics suits having the same or close EHP to a tanked assault. the lines are too blurred and no one will use the assault class.