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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
209
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Posted - 2014.07.25 19:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hm...
MinLogi since open-beta, proto'd the week before Uprising. PC active with/against teams currently considered "top tier".
Meee One, I see your Sig says you were banned for your forum activity. Sucks dude, but thank you for raising these issues early. I feel you have an extremely valid perspective from my own perspective running logistics in PCs.
The idea you/we deserve more of anything because of our SP investment or ISK cost is a loser though, that's the same argument every tanker or other FOTM has used when OP. You skilled into what you skilled, the responsibility is yours and yours alone to make it perform. To paraphrase an applicable New Eden adage, " If you can't afford to lose it then don't frikin' use it".
That being said, a lot of the overwhelmingly negative feedback seems either knee-jerk reactive to your poor justification of premise (That Logis WILL need inherent improvements to their base survivability stats relative to the improvements that have been done and are projected to come) or from those who don't realize or accept that EVERY combatants JOB is the killing of the enemy, regardless of role.
Chance has posted a well received by the devs thread suggesting certain buffs for assaults. His thread and all of its suggestions are predicated on HIS assessment that scouts were hit with the "OPHammer", and rather than re-tweaking them back to a more reasonable level, the assault frames should be buffed accordingly. I won't disagree with him on that and since that's the case there I agree with YOU, that Logistics will need some buffing on the base to keep the relatively even keel amongst the all the frames we have now.
Logistics is WORK. Its not PewPewSmileSmile. And, contrary to some of the opinions on the matter it ISN'T work that occurs solely in areas of the battlefield void of conflict. Quite frankly, unless its a redline/5cap scenario (ie. the battle is over) there is NO " front line" or "back line". Combat here is very assymetrical, we aren't playing a 18th century simulator with nice rows of ranks facing each other. When I am repping my heavies, its because we are UNDER FIRE, more often than not from multiple sides. I am escorting my heavies through gauntlets when we move. Without a decent survivability base I am a biomass stain and my squad is soon after. It'd be negligently irresponsible to leave scouts as they are, heavies as they are and buff assaults without buffing logis' base. No reasonable assessment of battlefield conditions could conclude otherwise. I remember the days of the fearsome GalLogi slayers. Those days are GONE, thankfully, and with the current and projected fits will NOT return but for the occasional isolated individuals, more likely than not newbs or vets out for a troll. Moving forward there is room to keep the even balance keel between suits, so long as the logistics frame class isn't forgotten or ignored.
In the dog fights we have, Pitbulls vs. Dobermans vs. Presas, its NOT an unreasonable expectation for us to be German Shepards instead of Chihuahuas.
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
213
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Posted - 2014.07.26 18:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
smh
The concerns we're having is the projected enivonmental conditions we will be in will be extremely difficult to survive in in, let alone thrive working, unless we basically brick the **** out of the fit. Bricktanking which then makes us even slower, hindering us moving with the squad, keeping the repper locked (which for some reason has become a real ***** lately), getting in and out cover to do the revives (which no one wants done unless the area has been fully cleared, but we're by increasing design NOT going to be to do) or running any forms of passive ewar ( precs or damp) etc etc etc.
This argument based on slots/slot counts is a red herring and misses the point.
The base stat values for logis currently are lacking. We manage, and many of us are productive because, yes, we balance the base shortfalls with module layouts. However, considering the base buffs that have been and will be granted to ALL the other frames, without some buff to our base as well the ONLY survivable fitting will be one that basically bricktanks! I CAN NOT rep you if I am DEAD! Uplinks will NOT be replenished if I am DEAD. Hives will not be deployed if I am DEAD! And the only, ONLY, way that I can be guaranteed to be protected as I am protecting YOU would be if :
1. My base stats are reflective of the environment and conditions I am expected to perform in
OR
2. Protection of the logistics class by all other roles is implicitly mandated by virtue of removal of ALL equipment slots from EVERY other class. If the redeeming virtue of logis which balances their lack in base stats is equipment then we should be the ONLY class capable of carrying it. Links, HIVs, Scanners, Reppers, PROXES AND RE's. Scouts can keep toting cloaks.
TL,DR- Small, buffing tweaks to logis' base stats (movement speed, db, sprint speed, ehp) can be done without inspiring their use as better assaults, will keep them evenly balanced for their role relative to the other roles/suits and is a better option than projected alternatives (total bricktanks next to useless from stacking or a substantial exodus from the role). Its not about wanting to slay or live forever. Its about not being 250k isk tissue paper tigers responsible for supporting 5+ others.
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
213
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 20:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
taxi bastard wrote:
how about a buff to base EHP and a reduction of high/low slots? so 200 more EHP (after passive skills so 160 before passives) at the cost of 2 high/lows? this will give you the bennifits of bricktanking without the drawbacks (i.e. loss of speed, slower regen ect) and as a result will also reduce fitting costs (isk) at the cost of fitting versatility.
i cannot support logistics suits having the same or close EHP to a tanked assault. the lines are too blurred and no one will use the assault class.
How about 100 ehp and base movement speed of scouts ( walking/turning) a little extra stamina (less than scouts) and the repping tool becomes a damaging beam (maybe it acts like a flux and wipes shields) to any red that crosses through it while its locked onto a blue? <- nonslaying oriented logi buffing for overall survivabilty. Slots stay as is. <- role intent balance.
edit- and if assaults are properly situated there will be none who look anywhere else but to assaults for fulfilling that role. Its got little to 0 to do with logis at this point, the discrepancies are already huge and getting further. The missing assault class didn't go logi, they went SCOUT.
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
213
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 21:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
dogmanpig wrote:they are not getting the ccp god buff again. sit down and pull out that rep tool.
HTFU and use an actual character when providing feedback, silly trollalt.
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
213
|
Posted - 2014.07.26 21:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
OR we could have our passive armor reps back, that'd be helpful. Or a super short shield recharge delay, like the calscouts' 2 second delay or whatever the f that is.
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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