DUST Search - [Request] Slightly Nerfing the HMG

Bormir1r wrote:

Concession

Before I go on the propose my solution I need to provide my concessions to this arguement.

The HMG is meant to kill things in CQC
It should be allowed to have the most firepower
It is very close to being balanced

The problem with the HMG currently is that it has the highest DPS of any weapon with little drawback. Sure Heavies move slowly, but they can be made to move just as fast as light assaults, which is a daunting image to see, much less experience. Note also that the HMG was never nerfed during the 1.8 update, which nerfed all the rifles by about 10%. This was modification made it so that the HMG was indirectly buffed, and in addition to that, it's ranged was extended, essentially tipping the power of the HMG slightly towards the unbalanced side.

Thus to correct this slight imbalance, we need to examine some options and come to a consensus about what or how we should go about modifying the heavy.

Possible Avenues

Modifying the HMGs Reticule - A huge proponent for the HMG is that it has a very large reticule, and with so many bullets scattering so quickly, it drops players so quickly they can't even react. We can modify the reticule to mimic the current Blaster tank reticule, which decreases the reticule radius as it fires, making the player rely more on aim than blatant shooting.

Heavy/HMG Turn Speed - Another reason why it's easy for heavies to kill players is because they can turn just as quick as a scout can, yet they move half as fast and tank 5-8 times as much eHP. This logic seems quite confusing, as someone would think it would be difficult to move a large weapon so quickly without experiencing some drawback. Granted this is a futuristic game, but it is unreasonable to have HMGs spinning around without having even the slightest aim to kill a player. If this option is selected, turn speed would be nerfed slightly, slower than the current speed, but not to the point where it makes heavies unusable.

Damage Output - This would be a slight change meaning 5-7%, and it would fall in with the rest of the other weapons.

Range - This would be corrected by damage which was mentioned above, but essentially it would correct one of the two buffs and make the weapon more balanced.

Thank you for your time and I hope CCP can comment on this.

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 470	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:03:00 - [1] - Quote Concession Before I go on the propose my solution I need to provide my concessions to this arguement. The HMG is meant to kill things in CQC It should be allowed to have the most firepower It is very close to being balanced The problem with the HMG currently is that it has the highest DPS of any weapon with little drawback. Sure Heavies move slowly, but they can be made to move just as fast as light assaults, which is a daunting image to see, much less experience. Note also that the HMG was never nerfed during the 1.8 update, which nerfed all the rifles by about 10%. This was modification made it so that the HMG was indirectly buffed, and in addition to that, it's ranged was extended, essentially tipping the power of the HMG slightly towards the unbalanced side. Thus to correct this slight imbalance, we need to examine some options and come to a consensus about what or how we should go about modifying the heavy. Possible Avenues *Modifying the HMGs Reticule* - A huge proponent for the HMG is that it has a very large reticule, and with so many bullets scattering so quickly, it drops players so quickly they can't even react. We can modify the reticule to mimic the current Blaster tank reticule, which decreases the reticule radius as it fires, making the player rely more on aim than blatant shooting. Heavy/HMG Turn Speed - Another reason why it's easy for heavies to kill players is because they can turn just as quick as a scout can, yet they move half as fast and tank 5-8 times as much eHP. This logic seems quite confusing, as someone would think it would be difficult to move a large weapon so quickly without experiencing some drawback. Granted this is a futuristic game, but it is unreasonable to have HMGs spinning around without having even the slightest aim to kill a player. If this option is selected, turn speed would be nerfed slightly, slower than the current speed, but not to the point where it makes heavies unusable. Damage Output - This would be a slight change meaning 5-7%, and it would fall in with the rest of the other weapons. Range - This would be corrected by damage which was mentioned above, but essentially it would correct one of the two buffs and make the weapon more balanced. Thank you for your time and I hope CCP can comment on this. "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do that.
Powerh8er The Rainbow Effect 466	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:38:00 - [2] - Quote Why dont we just remove the HMG and Heavy suit from the game?
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2248	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:04:00 - [3] - Quote A big issue I have with reducing the turn speed is that if affects gameplay outside of direct combat. The suit itself moves slowly, but adding reduction to turn speed makes even simple movement excessively difficult. Things like turning to to go up a flight of stairs suddenly becomes dangerous because you're rotating at a snails pace and standing there like an idiot. As for the reticule, I'm a little confused by what you said. The reticule on blasters currently INCREASES as it fires, HMG is the opposite in that it decreases, making it more accurate over a long range with sustained fire; I don't think that's a bad mechanic. On that note, the HMG was considered "useless" before because it was TOO accurate, and it was more advantageous to use an assault rifle over the HMG because it was easier to hit stuff with. Im not disagreeing that the HMG could use some very fine tuning, I'm just bringing up a couple points to consider. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Thorin Avarice Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 12	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:22:00 - [4] - Quote Turn speed? How about if that is done fix it where a shotgun takes more then 2 shot at any level to kill us.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3726	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:26:00 - [5] - Quote Only heat increase. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Orchi Aizen Tronhadar Free Guard 36	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:29:00 - [6] - Quote Thorin Avarice wrote: Turn speed? How about if that is done fix it where a shotgun takes more then 2 shot at any level to kill us. The gun is called a shotgun....dude it should kill you in 1 or 2.
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 130	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:00:00 - [7] - Quote I think. That the hmg is fine where it is. The only thing that should increase is the price. I easily make millions running proto heavy in ambush, but if i run proto logi, i seem to loose it all in a short time. -- You called, sir?
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 448	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:52:00 - [8] - Quote Powerh8er wrote: Why dont we just remove the HMG and Heavy suit from the game? I sincerely hope this is sarcasm. If so, +1 to you. If not, -100... Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 997	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:02:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Only heat increase. This won't stop a heavy from mowing down 5 defenseless militia turds before overheating will it? How many rounds do you think they'd get off before overheating in constant fire? The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
Apocalyptic Destroyer RestlessSpirits 8	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:24:00 - [10] - Quote The Blaster currently has the same reticle as the HMG. ~R1P

Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1443	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:39:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Only heat increase. I would rather see a dispersion increase. Let it keep its awesome power while redu ing its range. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 344	Posted - 2014.07.10 07:07:00 - [12] - Quote Has the dispersion bug been fixed yet? For those that aren't aware the HMG used to only get hits if you had the tiny dot in the centre of the reticule on your target - otherwise no hits would register despite what the reticule indicated.
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1444	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:03:00 - [13] - Quote Stile451 wrote: Has the dispersion bug been fixed yet? If not then this should be fixed before any other changes are made. For those that aren't aware the HMG used to only get hits if you had the tiny dot in the centre of the reticule on your target - otherwise no hits would register despite what the reticule indicated. Fixed a while back. It's why they are so popular now. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3839	Posted - 2014.07.10 10:43:00 - [14] - Quote Orchi Aizen wrote: Thorin Avarice wrote: Turn speed? How about if that is done fix it where a shotgun takes more then 2 shot at any level to kill us. The gun is called a shotgun....dude it should kill you in 1 or 2. By that logic, wtf do we need to nerf the hmg then?. Just like every other Englishmen, I bath in tea, have no teeth and live in a castle.
Kash Tellan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 24	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:44:00 - [15] - Quote Powerh8er wrote: Why dont we just remove the HMG and Heavy suit from the game? Nuuu! Only from ambush. meh
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 135	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:29:00 - [16] - Quote Thank you rattati!! another sane decision in the face of a bunch of whiners, lol. seriously though a very good choice, the hmg is where it should be. and as it fires so much so quickly I suppose a overheat mechanic should be something to be thought more of. (gotta say though. isn't that why it has so many barrels?)
Sum1ne Else G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1256	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:27:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Only heat increase. ...you're a peoples man, right? so give the people what they want its a RANGE change. optimum 15m and effective 25m Impressive? Longest PLC Kill 151.8m - OHK on a Heavy Logi mk.0 - Commando gk.0 - Scout gk.0
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3863	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:27:00 - [18] - Quote Reading your post Bormir1r I can only conclude that you have not played an HMG Sentinel long enough to have any clue what you are talking about. Reticule: It is not as bad as it was in the old days, but I still have to get the dot in the centre of the circle on target to apply full damage. You can remove the outer circle completely for all I care. All I need is the dot. Turn Speed: With and HMG Sentinel if I am attacked from behind I will be half dead by the time I get turned around, and checking my flank is a slow process. The weight of your weapon effects your suitGÇÖs turn speed, so the HMG is slowing our turn speed already. It already takes us 2 seconds to check both ways before crossing the street. Range: The HMG had more range before they fixed the dispersion. In the old days of what I call the GÇ£Precision HMGGÇ¥ I once got an HMG kill at 60m. Now I have trouble applying DPS to people on the other side of a street unless I switch to an Assault HMG, and then I am sacrificing Close Quarter DPS. Heat Buildup: Not even mentioned. The balance mechanic which is there ready to use, and you never even mention it. Thankfully CCP Rattati has some understanding of the Sentinel Class. Heat Buildup is the obvious way to balance the HMG, if any balance adjustments are needed. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2625	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:57:00 - [19] - Quote Orchi Aizen wrote: Thorin Avarice wrote: Turn speed? How about if that is done fix it where a shotgun takes more then 2 shot at any level to kill us. The gun is called a shotgun....dude it should kill you in 1 or 2. Not 3 or 4? Do the math ... it hits for around 500 / blast (more against shields, less against armor). Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Powerh8er The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 467	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:38:00 - [20] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: Powerh8er wrote: Why dont we just remove the HMG and Heavy suit from the game? I sincerely hope this is sarcasm. If so, +1 to you. If not, -100... Well, du-uh. Seriously, its an heavy machine gun intented only for CQC (killing something 30-40 meters away takes 200-300 bullets) it should be both idiot proof and have alot of firepower, whats the point if not?

SAIRAX SIS Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 102	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:49:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Only heat increase. Really? i used LP stdHMG & Militia Min Heavy. there arent opereation skill but it was very very useful. ...37k/4d in domination. It clearly too OP :( hmm...OK No problem heavy suit itself was variously sacrifice. (scan(sqd),movement&dash(Although resulting in improved with kincat)) It's a problem the height of the convergence rate of HMG. tap trigger. kill em all 30~40m. Forum Fighter too much of concealing the HMG.pÇÇpÇÇpÇÇpÇÇit is true OP. yoroshiku ne !pÇÇpÇÇCute Cat NyaoooonpÇÇGÖ¬
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 456	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:58:00 - [22] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Reading your post Bormir1r I can only conclude that you have not played an HMG Sentinel long enough to have any clue what you are talking about. Reticule: It is not as bad as it was in the old days, but I still have to get the dot in the centre of the circle on target to apply full damage. You can remove the outer circle completely for all I care. All I need is the dot. Turn Speed: With and HMG Sentinel if I am attacked from behind I will be half dead by the time I get turned around, and checking my flank is a slow process. The weight of your weapon effects your suitGÇÖs turn speed, so the HMG is slowing our turn speed already. It already takes us 2 seconds to check both ways before crossing the street. Range: The HMG had more range before they fixed the dispersion. In the old days of what I call the GÇ£Precision HMGGÇ¥ I once got an HMG kill at 60m. Now I have trouble applying DPS to people on the other side of a street unless I switch to an Assault HMG, and then I am sacrificing Close Quarter DPS. Heat Buildup: Not even mentioned. The balance mechanic which is there ready to use, and you never even mention it. Thankfully CCP Rattati has some understanding of the Sentinel Class. Heat Buildup is the obvious way to balance the HMG, if any balance adjustments are needed. ^^^^ THIS ^^^^^ Seriously, where are people getting these "50 or 60 meters" at? Using an assault HMG, I would guess my longest kill is probably about 40 meters, and that was tag teaming a guy with a CR who wore him down and I got a couple bullets landing at the end. I can only think of one or two instances where I was killed by an HMG where the distance said anything higher than that, and 90% of my deaths from HMGs are 25 meters or less. The ones that don't are almost always from assault HMGs or there is more than 1 person firing at me (someone using a CR or RR and a heavy is shooting at me as well). This includes my Logis, Commandos, and Sentinels. Rattati, thank you for not listening to all these people wanting to make Sentinels a rock. "Please Mr. Sentinel, stand still and let me gradually wear you down without giving you any chance to fight back or run away as long as I stay on the other side of the street from you." Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 90	Posted - 2014.07.11 00:48:00 - [23] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Concession Before I go on the propose my solution I need to provide my concessions to this arguement. The HMG is meant to kill things in CQC It should be allowed to have the most firepower It is very close to being balanced The problem with the HMG currently is that it has the highest DPS of any weapon with little drawback. Sure Heavies move slowly, but they can be made to move just as fast as light assaults, which is a daunting image to see, much less experience. Note also that the HMG was never nerfed during the 1.8 update, which nerfed all the rifles by about 10%. This was modification made it so that the HMG was indirectly buffed, and in addition to that, it's ranged was extended, essentially tipping the power of the HMG slightly towards the unbalanced side. Thus to correct this slight imbalance, we need to examine some options and come to a consensus about what or how we should go about modifying the heavy. Possible Avenues *Modifying the HMGs Reticule* - A huge proponent for the HMG is that it has a very large reticule, and with so many bullets scattering so quickly, it drops players so quickly they can't even react. We can modify the reticule to mimic the current Blaster tank reticule, which decreases the reticule radius as it fires, making the player rely more on aim than blatant shooting. Heavy/HMG Turn Speed - Another reason why it's easy for heavies to kill players is because they can turn just as quick as a scout can, yet they move half as fast and tank 5-8 times as much eHP. This logic seems quite confusing, as someone would think it would be difficult to move a large weapon so quickly without experiencing some drawback. Granted this is a futuristic game, but it is unreasonable to have HMGs spinning around without having even the slightest aim to kill a player. If this option is selected, turn speed would be nerfed slightly, slower than the current speed, but not to the point where it makes heavies unusable. Damage Output - This would be a slight change meaning 5-7%, and it would fall in with the rest of the other weapons. Range - This would be corrected by damage which was mentioned above, but essentially it would correct one of the two buffs and make the weapon more balanced. Thank you for your time and I hope CCP can comment on this. Turn speed thing was done long ago and enabled shotgun scouts like you to simply move in any given direction and heavys could never catch up, so thats a bad idea, as it failed which is why it was removed, reticule idea is horrible, it will make the burst as op as anything on tne field. And as for the range, I need to be able to shoot as far as your cloaked but can throw your res... Ya a scout wants his only counter nerfed, go figure. A damage nerf I could see. But they are nerfing overheat, which is good. Scouts will die just as easily.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 867	Posted - 2014.07.11 01:05:00 - [24] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Concession Before I go on the propose my solution I need to provide my concessions to this arguement. The HMG is meant to kill things in CQC It should be allowed to have the most firepower It is very close to being balanced The problem with the HMG currently is that it has the highest DPS of any weapon with little drawback. Sure Heavies move slowly, but they can be made to move just as fast as light assaults, which is a daunting image to see, much less experience. Note also that the HMG was never nerfed during the 1.8 update, which nerfed all the rifles by about 10%. This was modification made it so that the HMG was indirectly buffed, and in addition to that, it's ranged was extended, essentially tipping the power of the HMG slightly towards the unbalanced side. Was just out-DPS'd by a SMG today while using the HMG at 5 meters. Bormir1r wrote: Thus to correct this slight imbalance, we need to examine some options and come to a consensus about what or how we should go about modifying the heavy. Possible Avenues *Modifying the HMGs Reticule* - A huge proponent for the HMG is that it has a very large reticule, and with so many bullets scattering so quickly, it drops players so quickly they can't even react. We can modify the reticule to mimic the current Blaster tank reticule, which decreases the reticule radius as it fires, making the player rely more on aim than blatant shooting. I have to break it to you, but the actual target the HMG fires along is closer to a sniper rifle than the huge circle you see onscreen. 90% of the bullets hit within 1 pixel of the reticule's center. If the HMG's bullets had a slight cone shape to their path, so they spread further, they would not need damage dropoff until the bullets hit their absolute range, because the spread would cause damage reduction making fewer and fewer bullets hit on mark the further the target is from the gun. Bormir1r wrote: Heavy/HMG Turn Speed - Another reason why it's easy for heavies to kill players is because they can turn just as quick as a scout can, yet they move half as fast and tank 5-8 times as much eHP. This logic seems quite confusing, as someone would think it would be difficult to move a large weapon so quickly without experiencing some drawback. Granted this is a futuristic game, but it is unreasonable to have HMGs spinning around without having even the slightest aim to kill a player. If this option is selected, turn speed would be nerfed slightly, slower than the current speed, but not to the point where it makes heavies unusable. Try modifying the other stats around the heavy before you start poking at turn speed. Poking too many things at once is always a bad idea. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 867	Posted - 2014.07.11 01:45:00 - [25] - Quote Double post deleted.. wrong area. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
FEAST FOR crows Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 14	Posted - 2014.07.11 02:36:00 - [26] - Quote Once again i see another ignorant post advising to nerf heavies and it is really starting to get old. Basically from my point of view you just all suck because if i can take out a majority of heavies i face with a adv combat rifle and basic scout suit then i don't see why you guys can't. It is quite easy to destroy them if you just get out of their optimal range since they are slow . Heavies aren't OP majority of people just fight stupid and try to take them head on inside the heavies range. Also as a proto gallente sentinel i can tell you that the range for a hmg already sucks, as Fox said, " I have trouble applying DPS to people on the other side of a street unless I switch to an Assault HMG". I believe that the only valid complaint is the one being solved by CCP Rattati. The only OP thing i have encountered with my hmg is the fact that i can shoot about half my clip before i overheat. You Die In The Name Of The Empress *Horizons' Edge*
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1446	Posted - 2014.07.11 03:29:00 - [27] - Quote Sum1ne Else wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Only heat increase. ...you're a peoples man, right? so give the people what they want its a RANGE change. optimum 15m and effective 25m It should not be used as an offensive weapon, it should be defense. Probably not the min sentinal but all the others, yes. When they hit me from 45-50m and my AR doesn't deal 1000hp in the time they can, this is imbalanced. If I use my Gallente Commando (most comparable suit that does not carry a HMG, I guess) but with plasma rifles I do not stand a chance. Ambush right now is 'who has the best heavy' Reducing optimal is an awful idea. dispersion better suits the problem. it isn't the raw damage being the issue, its the application over too far of a range. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
Fristname Family name Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 77	Posted - 2014.07.11 03:49:00 - [28] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Concession Before I go on the propose my solution I need to provide my concessions to this arguement. The HMG is meant to kill things in CQC It should be allowed to have the most firepower It is very close to being balanced The problem with the HMG currently is that it has the highest DPS of any weapon with little drawback. Sure Heavies move slowly, but they can be made to move just as fast as light assaults, which is a daunting image to see, much less experience. Note also that the HMG was never nerfed during the 1.8 update, which nerfed all the rifles by about 10%. This was modification made it so that the HMG was indirectly buffed, and in addition to that, it's ranged was extended, essentially tipping the power of the HMG slightly towards the unbalanced side. Thus to correct this slight imbalance, we need to examine some options and come to a consensus about what or how we should go about modifying the heavy. Possible Avenues *Modifying the HMGs Reticule* - A huge proponent for the HMG is that it has a very large reticule, and with so many bullets scattering so quickly, it drops players so quickly they can't even react. We can modify the reticule to mimic the current Blaster tank reticule, which decreases the reticule radius as it fires, making the player rely more on aim than blatant shooting. Heavy/HMG Turn Speed - Another reason why it's easy for heavies to kill players is because they can turn just as quick as a scout can, yet they move half as fast and tank 5-8 times as much eHP. This logic seems quite confusing, as someone would think it would be difficult to move a large weapon so quickly without experiencing some drawback. Granted this is a futuristic game, but it is unreasonable to have HMGs spinning around without having even the slightest aim to kill a player. If this option is selected, turn speed would be nerfed slightly, slower than the current speed, but not to the point where it makes heavies unusable. Damage Output - This would be a slight change meaning 5-7%, and it would fall in with the rest of the other weapons. Range - This would be corrected by damage which was mentioned above, but essentially it would correct one of the two buffs and make the weapon more balanced. Thank you for your time and I hope CCP can comment on this. 1. Are you a heavy 2. Do ++ou use hmg 3. Dont nerf the heavys gun or they will result to rail rifles Ok now hmg is perfect I rekon how it is ( ecept for when my sentinak gk0 with proto everyhing gets killed by miltiaa heavy ) Australian mercy worky.
Fristname Family name Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 77	Posted - 2014.07.11 03:57:00 - [29] - Quote With dispertion maybe it could solve problem with a little less dispertion to assault and burst ( and like a 1 damage buff or less spray for the assualt as its ment to be a longer distance wepon but how many you see every day none 0 assault hmgs because theres no noticeable change maybe if the bullets are straight line but still are all spread around the radius of the cirlcle and centere and the gun slowly gains rof or acceracy it might work ) opps sorry should just make my own thread. But normal hmg is fine we use to have a 1meter optimal range and straight line fire let us have fun. Australian mercy worky.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 951	Posted - 2014.07.11 04:07:00 - [30] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Orchi Aizen wrote: Thorin Avarice wrote: Turn speed? How about if that is done fix it where a shotgun takes more then 2 shot at any level to kill us. The gun is called a shotgun....dude it should kill you in 1 or 2. Not 3 or 4? Do the math ... In range (5 meters), it hits for around 500 / blast (more against shields, less against armor). Unlike the CQC-oriented HMG (whose absolute range is 125m ) the SG's damage drops exponentially for each step taken outside of 5 meters. You can literally hop out of SG range. Yet people complain about it. Only because it is wielded by someone who usually doesn't appear until they are 4 meters away, who can close the distance to 5 meters in 1 second when they don't, can jump so high when close they are almost impossible to hit and can tank enough HP to absorb shots while they rush you if none if the above work. So no, shotguns are not the issue, its cloaked, tanked scouts with powerful passive scans combined with the shotgun that is the issue. I'm not calling for a nerf on any of this, just pointing out the obvious. Because, that's why.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page