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Are there any Militia Items you feel that are too powerful?

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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15645	Posted - 2014.06.28 21:40:00 - [1] - Quote This was brought up with a conversation with some folks in the dev chat room that some militia items are feeling a bit more powerful or powerful enough to rival the standard variants. Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) List modules or weapons you feel are too powerful for the level and the reason why they're too powerful. Ill start with an example Militia Shotgun is extremely powerful offering great stopping power for very similar performance in comparison to standard shotguns. While nerfing the damage of the shotgun can devalue the preview role I opt for the following, Reduction in Magazine size, reduction in total ammo. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 676	Posted - 2014.06.28 21:41:00 - [2] - Quote MLT armor plates: Ridiculous HP, low fitting cost, laughable penalty "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 4063	Posted - 2014.06.28 21:44:00 - [3] - Quote The DPS scale from MLT to STD to PRO on FGs is negligible for the amount of ISK/SP invested. I got Killed by a MLT PLC (didn't even know those existed) last week, so they must be OP (according to common player misconceptions) PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race
Arcturis Vanguard Red Star. EoN. 133	Posted - 2014.06.28 21:50:00 - [4] - Quote First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. I haven't played with all the racial additions but at times the militia shotgun feels better (hit detection and spread) then the advanced variants. I have been slain a few times with the scrambler, god the gun hurts!! Lol but as always it's a great skill shot rifle. As long as the skills aren't applied to the weapon, just keep cpu/pg consumption higher, damage lower then base variants, and overall clip/ pool smaller then base variants. Everyone will be happy. Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 603	Posted - 2014.06.28 22:16:00 - [5] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: MLT armor plates: Ridiculous HP, low fitting cost, laughable penalty I could not disagree more. Maybe before the hotfixes you had a point, but MLT armor plates have a 300% fitting increase from their pre-alpha and bravo days. The only weapons I see as a tad too good at MLT are the Forge Gun and Shotgun. They are just as good as their standard variants and show up on the kill feed quite often. I have enjoyed trying out the MLT variants of weapons I would have never skilled into otherwise. MLT tanks were way too good before Bravo. Now they seem to be in their place. Maybe just a slight nerf of their CPU and Grid to stop ADV turrets from being used on them? Most of the modules and equipment seem to be in a good place as well. They give you a good taste of what they can do for you, but leave you wanting more. Except those MLT nanohives, they are terrible, lol. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN 785	Posted - 2014.06.28 22:18:00 - [6] - Quote 3 words: Militia Rail Rifle 100 meter range on a militia gun... really? "I never pull out" ~Ace Boone, 2014.
Mortedeamor NoGameNoLife 1680	Posted - 2014.06.28 22:49:00 - [7] - Quote MLT PLC
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2770	Posted - 2014.06.28 22:51:00 - [8] - Quote Arcturis Vanguard wrote: First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. Definitely this. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
I-Shayz-I I----------I 3818	Posted - 2014.06.28 23:00:00 - [9] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: 3 words: Militia Rail Rifle 100 meter range on a militia gun... really? Yeah, I think this is the one militia weapon I've been killed by more than any of the others. Maybe an increase to kick to make it really hard to use at those ranges or an increase in the charge-up time. It's almost sad that since the introduction of the mlt RR, I've seen a drastic reduction to the amount of new players using the sniper rifle or sniper starter fit. While I agree with you about the shotgun IWS, I've never had issues with it in-game, but then again I'm not one to die easily by a shotgun anymore. It does require light weapons level 4, so I can see why players would use it rather than the std version. The mlt combat rifle is just as good as the standard one really. Increased kick would be nice, or a smaller clip. The only other weapon I've had issues with is the mlt scrambler...but I feel it is still very balanced just as the other scramblers are. Most new players will overheat with it before they can do significant damage, but the real balancing factor is the -20% damage to armor. Other than that, I'm glad a mlt HMG wasn't introduced. The main issue isn't damage output, but the fact that skilling into the HMG requires quite a bit of sp into weaponry. ________________________________________________________________________ I'm sure that you're already aware of this, but one of the single most important factors about mlt weapons/items is that they do NOT receive any bonuses from dropsuit or weapon skill bonuses. While yes, any player can use the mlt version instead of the std or adv to get a decent damage output for a very low isk price...if they have prof in the weapon, any reload or ammo skills, or are using a suit that benefits said weapon (Amarr Assault laser/scrambler bonus for example), using mlt will decrease the preformance much more than just a few bullets in the mag and an increased reload speed. This is the primary reason why I never use mlt even if I'm trying to save money... 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1209	Posted - 2014.06.28 23:11:00 - [10] - Quote None of the militia items are over powered as far as I can tell. (Did they fix the numbers for blueprint items to the updated numbers?) Now if you feel militia is the go to choice when players are trying to make isk.... well what do you expect? I mean its like people are playing the game the best way they can for their needs... and people are not happy? You want to even nerf new player gear even more? Are you lot insane!!?? Investigate 9/11

Tectonic Fusion 1797	Posted - 2014.06.28 23:18:00 - [11] - Quote No skills on MLT weapons and add a MLT only mode.
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1067	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:17:00 - [12] - Quote IMO, its not really a militia weapons are OP, but more of a, since im skilled into this particular wepon and know how it works, i will use this miltia weapon to its full use. and it has the same dps stats as its STD variant so dps isnt a problem, with most miltia weapons. they already have a lower clip size and ammo capacity i think. my only problem is that shotguns are easy mode killing. if someone could do the math, it would be better if a std shotgun can 1 shot a std suit, 2 shot a ADV, and 4 shot a prototype. adv shotty could 1 shot STD and ADV, but only 2-4 shot proto, and proto type should 1 shot every one but 2 shot proto. (assuming all these are medium frames) NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1067	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:18:00 - [13] - Quote also milita weapons dont factor in skills already so that shouldnt be a problem. and adding a MLT only mode would benifit the skilled players who can use MLT weapons to thuer benifit NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10515	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:23:00 - [14] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: MLT armor plates: Ridiculous HP, low fitting cost, laughable penalty Now compare that to militia armor repairers. Now compare the militia armor repairers to the base recharge of shield suits. Suddenly the reason for the high HP at the low end becomes clear, doesn't it? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 92	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:28:00 - [15] - Quote heres my two cents on mlt Shotgun that **** has jumped in my face, point blank, and two-shotted me in full proto Amarr heavy your goddamn right its OP
Forever ETC Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 622	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:37:00 - [16] - Quote A little off topic but could Militia Items be easier to fit than their STD tiers? Doesn't make sense why something that performs worse should be expensive to fit than STD Items. I've been trying to make Racial Starter Fittings but it's difficult to make a decent dropsuit without passing the PG/CPU. Don't you shiver PS News VIZZZIAM
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1067	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:41:00 - [17] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: A little off topic but could Militia Items be easier to fit than their STD tiers? Doesn't make sense why something that performs worse should be expensive to fit than STD Items. I've been trying to make Racial Starter Fittings but it's difficult to make a decent dropsuit without passing the PG/CPU. because it wants to promote the use of better gear so you dont have to use crap gear NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15647	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:46:00 - [18] - Quote So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.06.29 01:14:00 - [19] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) I thought that militia items were for those who didn't have enough sp AND for when you need isk. So, if that's not the case, what is the "proper" way of getting more isk?
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 684	Posted - 2014.06.29 01:20:00 - [20] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: MLT armor plates: Ridiculous HP, low fitting cost, laughable penalty Now compare that to militia armor repairers. Now compare the militia armor repairers to the base recharge of shield suits. Suddenly the reason for the high HP at the low end becomes clear, doesn't it? Now compare to militia shield extenders. "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 888	Posted - 2014.06.29 01:21:00 - [21] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? I'm okay with this. After all, militia stuff should be used when you don't have any applicable skills. Dust/Eve transfers
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.06.29 01:26:00 - [22] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? I would still like the recruit BPO's to get bonuses by skills though. T-T please?
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3885	Posted - 2014.06.29 01:36:00 - [23] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: MLT armor plates: Ridiculous HP, low fitting cost, laughable penalty Now compare that to militia armor repairers. Now compare the militia armor repairers to the base recharge of shield suits. Suddenly the reason for the high HP at the low end becomes clear, doesn't it? Now compare to militia shield extenders. Two mods for 66hp repping at 15-50hp/s seems pretty nice compared to two mods for 85HP repping at 2.5hp/s with a speed penalty of 3(?)%. Makes sense to me. I know which one I'd pick. Although you probably think that 19HP is a significant number, don't you. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3347	Posted - 2014.06.29 02:00:00 - [24] - Quote There is nothing "OP" in the militia section at the moment. The militia rail rifle has a smaller clip and longer reload time, plates take considerable more fitting space etc. Only because it can kill you its not "too good". There is a reason why militia stuff is the most used gear in the game and that is because 95% of the players just are simply horrible at FPS games. The average blueberry cant even achieve a KDR above 1 (and that is allready generous). Alot of people use militia cause they just cant afford more. Hell some blueberrys go something like 1-19 on skirmish and even with cheap fits that cost like 10k a pop the guy lost 190k ISK while he probs made somewhere around 150k. Like ive mentioned before: "people dont use militia because they want to, they use it because they cant afford anything better". This game rewards good players and punishes the bad. CCP incroporated this by full knowledge and the golden ticket out of this hell for most people is just to buy AUR. Another fact for this is the recently removed passive ISK from PC. There was a overflow of ISK and players got "too wealthy" which ofcourse lowered the AUR sales so CCP had to put an end to this.
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1067	Posted - 2014.06.29 02:39:00 - [25] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? since when the hell did miltia gear ever get bonuses from the actual gun skills NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Atiim EnvyUs. 9973	Posted - 2014.06.29 02:55:00 - [26] - Quote Arcturis Vanguard wrote: First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. And why is that? I think they should, because it means that even players with 20m+ SP will still have a use for them, which is good. Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15648	Posted - 2014.06.29 02:56:00 - [27] - Quote Atiim wrote: Arcturis Vanguard wrote: First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. And why is that? I think they should, because it means that even players with 20m+ SP will still have a use for them, which is good. This is not by design. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Atiim EnvyUs. 9973	Posted - 2014.06.29 02:58:00 - [28] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Atiim wrote: Arcturis Vanguard wrote: First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. And why is that? I think they should, because it means that even players with 20m+ SP will still have a use for them, which is good. This is not by design. So? A lot of good things happened by mistake. Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 238	Posted - 2014.06.29 03:21:00 - [29] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? *NAY!!!!!!* The current model of higher fitting cost/ lower ammo is the correct approach to MLT weapons. What you are not considering is how this negatively affects the new player and low SP player. Weakening MLT weapons hurts new players and means losing them. Weaker MLT weapons means even harder to get kills for new players. If a new player is less successful then new player quits faster. How can a new player learn to use a weapon when the entry level version does not properly reflect the weapon's true potential. A weaker MLT means weaker nubs. A weaker MLT means weaker starter fits. Players who rely on sytarter fits will be nothing more than target practice; fodder for the proto. MLT weapons ARE standard weapons, just less efficient....not weaker. If you have EARNED the SP and have invested it in a weapon then you DESERVE the IMMEDIATE benefits of your choices NO MATTER WHAT TIER you are using. By not allowing bonuses from suits you punish players for not skilling in the "correct" order. A player's choice is never wrong; SP investment should never be railroaded. I apologize for the poorly constructed reply. I felt an expedient reply was more important than eloquence. AKA - StarVenger
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.06.29 03:49:00 - [30] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? *NAY!!!!!!* The current model of higher fitting cost/ lower ammo is the correct approach to MLT weapons. What you are not considering is how this negatively affects the new player and low SP player. Weakening MLT weapons hurts new players and means losing them. Weaker MLT weapons means even harder to get kills for new players. If a new player is less successful then new player quits faster. How can a new player learn to use a weapon when the entry level version does not properly reflect the weapon's true potential. A weaker MLT means weaker nubs. A weaker MLT means weaker starter fits. Players who rely on sytarter fits will be nothing more than target practice; fodder for the proto. MLT weapons ARE standard weapons, just less efficient....not weaker. If you have EARNED the SP and have invested it in a weapon then you DESERVE the IMMEDIATE benefits of your choices NO MATTER WHAT TIER you are using. By not allowing bonuses from suits you punish players for not skilling in the "correct" order. A player's choice is never wrong; SP investment should never be railroaded. I apologize for the poorly constructed reply. I felt an expedient reply was more important than eloquence. This. Jagermeister brings up a good point about how this would affect the new player experience. If you are really serious about seeing what the community says about nerfing militia items and weapons, why not ask those who depend on militia items the most? Send a message to everyone with 2 million sp or less and ask them to go take a survey. Then see if they still want to play after the majority of their fitting options are further weakened, thus making it easier for them to get pwned when they go up against advanced or proto players. btw, I still haven't received an answer for my previous post: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) I thought that militia items were for those who didn't have enough sp AND for when you need isk. So, if that's not the case, what is the "proper" way of getting more isk?

Thurak1 Psygod9 799	Posted - 2014.06.29 04:13:00 - [31] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: This was brought up with a conversation with some folks in the dev chat room that some militia items are feeling a bit more powerful or powerful enough to rival the standard variants. Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) List modules or weapons you feel are too powerful for the level and the reason why they're too powerful. Ill start with an example Militia Shotgun is extremely powerful offering great stopping power for very similar performance in comparison to standard shotguns. While nerfing the damage of the shotgun can devalue the preview role I opt for the following, Reduction in Magazine size, reduction in total ammo. honestly most of my fittings use militia grade nearly everything. There just isnt enough incentive for me to spend the isk on better gear the difference in equipment tiers isnt that great from militia especially for the price tag. Personally i dont think the gear is OP but there is little reason to spend the isk on the slight increase. If there was a forge fun with a zoom sight i would drop 100k isk on it and not think twice.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15648	Posted - 2014.06.29 04:13:00 - [32] - Quote Zelda Harkinian wrote: I thought that militia items were for those who didn't have enough sp AND for when you need isk. So, if that's not the case, what is the "proper" way of getting more isk? Like I said another issue, has more to with payout and expected loss rate or how expensive standard gear is. This also can harken back to the issues caused by not having tetricide as well. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6241	Posted - 2014.06.29 04:16:00 - [33] - Quote Scout suits. Oh wait, this is a milta thread ? Then I'd have to go with the militia flaylock . This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10518	Posted - 2014.06.29 06:41:00 - [34] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: MLT armor plates: Ridiculous HP, low fitting cost, laughable penalty Now compare that to militia armor repairers. Now compare the militia armor repairers to the base recharge of shield suits. Suddenly the reason for the high HP at the low end becomes clear, doesn't it? Now compare to militia shield extenders. Still don't see the problem considering how weak militia armor repairers are and how strong the base recharge is. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
emm kay Binary Mercs Canis Eliminatus Operatives 119	Posted - 2014.06.29 07:51:00 - [35] - Quote I cant believe that nobody has picked up and said the militia rail cannon is OP. There is literally not a single reason you should use a proto rail cannon when the militia is cheap, and does the same job. Not to mention the militia vehicle damage modifiers. The damage modifier should be worn as a medal, not as a 3,000ISK destroyer of worlds. -- You called, sir?
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1068	Posted - 2014.06.29 07:57:00 - [36] - Quote Just a Reminder that this is New Eden, we can use militia gear for what ever the F**k we want whether its grinding isk or a stupid preview. NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Scout Hunter II Inner.Hell 29	Posted - 2014.06.29 08:37:00 - [37] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: This was brought up with a conversation with some folks in the dev chat room that some militia items are feeling a bit more powerful or powerful enough to rival the standard variants. Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) List modules or weapons you feel are too powerful for the level and the reason why they're too powerful. Ill start with an example Militia Shotgun is extremely powerful offering great stopping power for very similar performance in comparison to standard shotguns. While nerfing the damage of the shotgun can devalue the preview role I opt for the following, Reduction in Magazine size, reduction in total ammo. yes and scrambler rifle needs more overheat at militia level CEO of Inner.Hell > Those who sacrifice freedom in the name of security, deserve neither.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15652	Posted - 2014.06.29 08:39:00 - [38] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: Just a Reminder that this is New Eden, we can use militia gear for what ever the F**k we want whether its grinding isk or a stupid preview. New Eden favors the efficient; which militia is not supposed to be. If you want to go mining veldspar in a velato or titan be my guest but you're not making a lot of isk that way and both ventures are just as terribly risky. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3355	Posted - 2014.06.29 09:04:00 - [39] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Scout suits. Oh wait, this is a milta thread ? Then I'd have to go with the militia flaylock . Just imagine the militia ion pistol.... I can just hear the cries of you know who Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 386	Posted - 2014.06.29 09:31:00 - [40] - Quote Arcturis Vanguard wrote: First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. this. and also apply it to militia mods as well.

sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 281	Posted - 2014.06.29 10:52:00 - [41] - Quote Militia stuff is awesome. Let's break it down: - militia plasma cannon is hilariously awesome (kill +50, kill +50, etc, etc...) - militia scrambler pistol is bloody awesome (headshot kill +60...) - militia uplinks are surprisingly awesome (spawn +25, spawn +25, etc, etc...). And they can still give 3 second spawns. - militia REP tool is unbelievably awesome (triage +25, guardian +35, etc, etc...). It's a warpoint tool, not a rep tool. - militia SMG is annoyingly awesome for its cheapness. - militia minmatar heavy frame is one of the most fun suits in the game. Stick a kincat and a combat rifle on that thing. - militia gallente heavy makes a cheap and effective HMG suit. Just some of my favourite militia things. So much SP investments saved. Desperate attempt to get BPOs
V1RONXSS AL0NE Inc. 15	Posted - 2014.06.29 11:10:00 - [42] - Quote The problem is not on mlt weapons generally, increase isk payout - the game is ready so boring and lacking on new Content. After last fix there also bugs with matchmaking, i was playing yesterday same map like 5 times... Enough isk - no reason to use mlt things, more chance that new player will stay in this game for some time, etc etc etc. We all know that server shutdown will come anytime soon or not soon but it comes, let us enjoy this game at least. Change stats on mlt its right decision but not number one problem for a game that has no future. USE CORRECT FIT, DON'T BE STUPID
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 639	Posted - 2014.06.29 11:19:00 - [43] - Quote I have no issue whatsoever with the power of militia items. I'm all happy for the poor redberry that finally managed to score a kill after being killed 10 times by stuff he didn't even know exists. If I get killed by someone in MLT equipment he outplayed me. Big time. Let's not change anything about that.
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3724	Posted - 2014.06.29 11:31:00 - [44] - Quote Looking at civilian modules, yes. A nub should get beaten down no matter what. I will spam your face with aurum proto.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 301	Posted - 2014.06.29 11:41:00 - [45] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: I have no issue whatsoever with the power of militia items. I'm all happy for the poor redberry that finally managed to score a kill after being killed 10 times by stuff he didn't even know exists. If I get killed by someone in MLT equipment he outplayed me. Big time. Let's not change anything about that. I second this! +1
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1219	Posted - 2014.06.29 14:46:00 - [46] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: There is nothing "OP" in the militia section at the moment. The militia rail rifle has a smaller clip and longer reload time, plates take considerable more fitting space etc. Only because it can kill you its not "too good". There is a reason why militia stuff is the most used gear in the game and that is because 95% of the players just are simply horrible at FPS games. The average blueberry cant even achieve a KDR above 1 (and that is allready generous). Alot of people use militia cause they just cant afford more. Hell some blueberrys go something like 1-19 on skirmish and even with cheap fits that cost like 10k a pop the guy lost 190k ISK while he probs made somewhere around 150k. Like ive mentioned before: "people dont use militia because they want to, they use it because they cant afford anything better". This game rewards good players and punishes the bad. CCP incroporated this by full knowledge and the golden ticket out of this hell for most people is just to buy AUR. Another fact for this is the recently removed passive ISK from PC. There was a overflow of ISK and players got "too wealthy" which ofcourse lowered the AUR sales so CCP had to put an end to this. Agreed. Seriously I cant believe IWS and others are actually even discussing this! Militia weapons should OF COURSE receive the same bonuses that any other weapon would from the players skills. Why the hell would the worst level weapon NOT recieve the bonus? That makes no sense. Are you trying to push new players / more casual players out of this game even more? People run militia because its cheap, this game requires you to manage a currency - not many other games do. So while the top boys in PC have farmed billions to spend, the average casual dude might not even be able to afford his ADV fitting he has just about got the skills for. There is already huge imbalance in this game as it is and you guys want to push that imbalance EVEN further. This thread is shameful. Really think about what you are doing..... Investigate 9/11
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5509	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:14:00 - [47] - Quote Militia shotgun definitely. Reduced clip size isn't really a penalty when it's still a big clip. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
lunatis orrak Battlefield Brawlers 30	Posted - 2014.06.29 15:52:00 - [48] - Quote Militias op now to damn now that all the races have militia now its op just wow guys yall are something else CHUBBY CHASER FOR LIFE `!BEWARE MY FAT BULLDOGS! The leash is not for your protection`
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1071	Posted - 2014.06.29 16:10:00 - [49] - Quote IWS you need to stop messing/stirring up the forums with these types of discussions. sure it may have a good point, but some of these things actually make the game better. militia items are fine where they are. -if they didn't have the bonuses with them then they would be incredibly weaker. -militia items are standard items but are less sufficient. -without "decent" militia gear than new players would get stomped all the time and high sp players would dominate with their better skills. if i didnt have the skills i have with the min assault than my cr would have 42 instead of 54, this is still considered militia to me because it has lower clip size than my standard combat rifles which usually have 67 to the clip. high sp players would benefit from the militia weapons having the bonuses since they kinda earned it, and newer players would have to skill into the weapons to be more effective with them and eventually they become high sp players.(if they stayed for that long) nerfing a militia weapon is like nerfing a standard weapon just because it is cheap. if anything needs adjusting try making a thread about miltia mods. for vehicles. NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Amuf Oratok Maphia Clan Corporation 21	Posted - 2014.06.29 16:38:00 - [50] - Quote Let's remove all the bonuses from everything! YOLAAC: You Only Live As A Clone Die and Rise

Justice Prevails 274	Posted - 2014.06.29 16:51:00 - [51] - Quote Zelda Harkinian wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) I thought that militia items were for those who didn't have enough sp AND for when you need isk. So, if that's not the case, what is the "proper" way of getting more isk? Exactly. Don't use it, but leave the noob stuff alone. Life's hard enough for the new players. Especially this week. Not everybody has hordes of isk from holding districts and CCP took Bpos off the market. Just saying. Embracing my inner scrub since 2013.
Atiim EnvyUs. 9996	Posted - 2014.06.29 17:14:00 - [52] - Quote So can we nerf Starter Fits too? I mean it is just about as good as STD Medium Frames. Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
Hobo on Fire Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 292	Posted - 2014.06.29 17:17:00 - [53] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? Throwing in an actual Nay vote. As others have stated, new players have it hard enough as it is. Don't screw them over further.
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 11	Posted - 2014.06.29 17:23:00 - [54] - Quote Neigh! (--_--)
Green Pyramid ph-clones 3	Posted - 2014.06.29 17:40:00 - [55] - Quote Amuf Oratok wrote: Let's remove all the bonuses from everything! removing dust from your ps3 fixes almost all these problems
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15655	Posted - 2014.06.29 19:27:00 - [56] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: IWS you need to stop messing/stirring up the forums with these types of discussions. sure it may have a good point, but some of these things actually make the game better. militia items are fine where they are. -if they didn't have the bonuses with them then they would be incredibly weaker. -militia items are standard items but are less sufficient. -without "decent" militia gear than new players would get stomped all the time and high sp players would dominate with their better skills. if i didnt have the skills i have with the min assault than my cr would have 42 instead of 54, this is still considered militia to me because it has lower clip size than my standard combat rifles which usually have 67 to the clip. high sp players would benefit from the militia weapons having the bonuses since they kinda earned it, and newer players would have to skill into the weapons to be more effective with them and eventually they become high sp players.(if they stayed for that long) nerfing a militia weapon is like nerfing a standard weapon just because it is cheap. if anything needs adjusting try making a thread about miltia mods. for vehicles. For the sake of not looking like a total piece on either side I'll state the full intent. I will apologize if you feel that I solely that forums are a means of measurement let alone I am going after very specific angles of feedback pieced mealed at a time. Forums are typically better at articulating thoughts out as opposed to ingame or other places as they're typically less though put into the responses. Let me state to you the larger problem. People don't use enough standard gear in a way that people do not use basic frame prototype suit tiers. In just about every case if a skilled player could choose standard gear or militia gear the militia gear will prove superior every time. While BPOs are factor in this; Militia are only supposed to be the preview items; standard is supposed to be the goto crutch if you're low on cash but thanks to a lack of tiericide militia tier is superior in every way just about. Low ammo? Who cares low life expectancy solves the issue majority of the time. Low Clip? Not an issue with most veterans. Ultimately this does not encourage new players to move out of militia gear either. New Players should be getting into a new standard suit as soon as possible. TL;DR In other words Standard Gear has no role with the existence of militia tier around. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Justice Prevails 275	Posted - 2014.06.29 19:50:00 - [57] - Quote Not worried about the 12000 sp or couple thousand ISK to use a basic weapon. Still kind of pi**ed at the some hundredthousand sp that was wasted going from enhanced damage mods to complex. For a 1% gain, talk about loss of usefulness. Embracing my inner scrub since 2013.
Doyle Reese OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 479	Posted - 2014.06.29 20:32:00 - [58] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: knight guard fury wrote: IWS you need to stop messing/stirring up the forums with these types of discussions. sure it may have a good point, but some of these things actually make the game better. militia items are fine where they are. -if they didn't have the bonuses with them then they would be incredibly weaker. -militia items are standard items but are less sufficient. -without "decent" militia gear than new players would get stomped all the time and high sp players would dominate with their better skills. if i didnt have the skills i have with the min assault than my cr would have 42 instead of 54, this is still considered militia to me because it has lower clip size than my standard combat rifles which usually have 67 to the clip. high sp players would benefit from the militia weapons having the bonuses since they kinda earned it, and newer players would have to skill into the weapons to be more effective with them and eventually they become high sp players.(if they stayed for that long) nerfing a militia weapon is like nerfing a standard weapon just because it is cheap. if anything needs adjusting try making a thread about miltia mods. for vehicles. For the sake of not looking like a total piece on either side I'll state the full intent and play my last card early. I will apologize if you feel that I solely that forums are a means of measurement let alone I am going after very specific angles of feedback pieced mealed at a time. Forums are typically better at articulating thoughts out as opposed to ingame or other places as they're typically less though put into the responses. Let me state to you the larger problem. People don't use enough standard gear in a way that people do not use basic frame prototype suit tiers. In just about every case if a skilled player could choose standard gear or militia gear the militia gear will prove superior every time. While BPOs are factor in this; Militia are only supposed to be the preview items; standard is supposed to be the goto crutch if you're low on cash but thanks to a lack of tiericide militia tier is superior in every way just about. Low ammo? Who cares low life expectancy solves the issue majority of the time. Low Clip? Not an issue with most veterans. Ultimately this does not encourage new players to move out of militia gear either. New Players should be getting into a new standard suit as soon as possible. TL;DR In other words Standard Gear has no role with the existence of militia tier around. Fitting encourages you to move out of militia gear, there are numerous times where you are 3-4CPU and 1-2 PG away from fitting something you need and I had to replace a MLT module with a STD one in order to fit. Personally I get killed by Militia gear more times than I'd like to admit, but imo I do not think there's a problem with them (except the Regulator, it's still at pre-HFB numbers, which is not too big a problem)
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3358	Posted - 2014.06.29 21:19:00 - [59] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: TL;DR In other words Standard Gear has no role with the existence of militia tier around. No role? Ofcourse there is a benefit to it to use standard gear cause of these reasons: -suits have better PG+CPU and 1 additional module slot -weapons have a bigger clip and faster reload and lower fitting requirements -equipment works better and is aswell fitting friendly both combined means that a standard suit has a bigger survivability rating then a fully fitted militia suit. But if your ultimate goal is to get rid of militia i thankfully take millions of AUR as replacement for my stockpiled BPO's so i could run omega boosters for like 2 years from now on.
Arcturis Vanguard Red Star. EoN. 141	Posted - 2014.06.29 22:08:00 - [60] - Quote Zelda Harkinian wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) I thought that militia items were for those who didn't have enough sp AND for when you need isk. So, if that's not the case, what is the "proper" way of getting more isk? The "proper" way to make money is to make leader board with war points. After that run basic gear. Run ambush all night to make millions of isk. Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR

Arcturis Vanguard Red Star. EoN. 141	Posted - 2014.06.29 22:20:00 - [61] - Quote Atiim wrote: Arcturis Vanguard wrote: First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. And why is that? I think they should, because it means that even players with 20m+ SP will still have a use for them, which is good because it adds tier diversity to the battlefield. Basic gear is already cheap enough to make good money. If you have "20+ m" you have a good enough understanding not to throw yourself at an objective over and over again. With that amount of sp basic gear can take advantage of the bonuses received from related skills. Militia gear is just a cheap preview of how something performs. Most skillable weapons, mods, etc are easy to obtain with sp. Hence militia should not receive skill based bonuses. Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Arcturis Vanguard Red Star. EoN. 141	Posted - 2014.06.29 22:43:00 - [62] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: The dark cloud wrote: There is nothing "OP" in the militia section at the moment. The militia rail rifle has a smaller clip and longer reload time, plates take considerable more fitting space etc. Only because it can kill you its not "too good". There is a reason why militia stuff is the most used gear in the game and that is because 95% of the players just are simply horrible at FPS games. The average blueberry cant even achieve a KDR above 1 (and that is allready generous). Alot of people use militia cause they just cant afford more. Hell some blueberrys go something like 1-19 on skirmish and even with cheap fits that cost like 10k a pop the guy lost 190k ISK while he probs made somewhere around 150k. Like ive mentioned before: "people dont use militia because they want to, they use it because they cant afford anything better". This game rewards good players and punishes the bad. CCP incroporated this by full knowledge and the golden ticket out of this hell for most people is just to buy AUR. Another fact for this is the recently removed passive ISK from PC. There was a overflow of ISK and players got "too wealthy" which ofcourse lowered the AUR sales so CCP had to put an end to this. Agreed. Seriously I cant believe IWS and others are actually even discussing this! Militia weapons should OF COURSE receive the same bonuses that any other weapon would from the players skills. Why the hell would the worst level weapon NOT recieve the bonus? That makes no sense. Are you trying to push new players / more casual players out of this game even more? People run militia because its cheap, this game requires you to manage a currency - not many other games do. So while the top boys in PC have farmed billions to spend, the average casual dude might not even be able to afford his ADV fitting he has just about got the skills for. There is already huge imbalance in this game as it is and you guys want to push that imbalance EVEN further. This thread is shameful. Really think about what you are doing..... Addition - I don't have a problem with balancing things like damage, clip size etc as I do believe Militia equipment and weapons should be weaker than standard gear. I just feel any skill bonuses should always be applied. So let me get this straight. We are concerned about the new player experience. Yes of course. We, the community, wants to be able to play modes where we can select teir grade. That is least what I have read many many times. So now we want those that have large pools of sp that have skilled into many many things be able to use their passive bonuses to elevate the militia gear above those that are just starting out. Doesn't this still create an imbalance between vets and beginners? Think about it. Weapons and mods should not receive skills bonus. The suits can still take advantage of cpu/pg skills along with biotics. Base gear is seriously cost effective enough for anyone, unless of course you seriously super terrible at an fps and in that case this genre just isn't for you. Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Sum1ne Else G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1234	Posted - 2014.06.30 13:40:00 - [63] - Quote Arcturis Vanguard wrote: First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. I haven't played with all the racial additions but at times the militia shotgun feels better (hit detection and spread) then the advanced variants. I have been slain a few times with the scrambler, god the gun hurts!! Lol but as always it's a great skill shot rifle. As long as the skills aren't applied to the weapon, just keep cpu/pg consumption higher, damage lower then base variants, and overall clip/ pool smaller then base variants. Everyone will be happy. THIS^ I said this a LONG time ago, I may even be able to find my post- it got laughed at but Core skills should never apply to militia or blueprint gear. EDIT: Found my old post; back then I was saying to starter suits only but agree it should not transfer to BPO or militia gear https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1476457#post1476457 Impressive? Longest PLC Kill 151.8m - OHK on a Heavy Logi mk.0 - Commando gk.0 - Scout gk.0
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 13	Posted - 2014.06.30 14:10:00 - [64] - Quote Arcturis Vanguard wrote: Zelda Harkinian wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) I thought that militia items were for those who didn't have enough sp AND for when you need isk. So, if that's not the case, what is the "proper" way of getting more isk? The "proper" way to make money is to make leader board with war points. After that run basic gear. Run ambush all night to make millions of isk. make leader board, huh? Kind of hard to do in some matches when your side can't even get a tank in and you're dying every 100 war points. If making leader board is the proper way to make isk, then don't get angry at me if I start to spam Standard Nano-injectors and Standard Repair Tool.
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 249	Posted - 2014.06.30 14:13:00 - [65] - Quote SOLUTION 1-All skills apply to MLT weapons/gear. New players enjoy benefits of skill choices they made immediately. 2-Make STD gear cost the same to purchase as MLT gear. The economy is nearly moot point now so lowering cost a few hundred ISK won't break anything. The incentive to save ISK running MLT is removed. Only starter fits and bpos will offer this. New players will be happy to skill more STD gear to get extra ammo and lower fitting costs. AKA - StarVenger
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 649	Posted - 2014.06.30 17:36:00 - [66] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Let me state to you the larger problem. People don't use enough standard gear in a way that people do not use basic frame prototype suit tiers. Are you positive that this is because MLT is too good? I'd conclude that there are two types of people in Dust: 1. Awesome forum vets who consider using ADV gear as "being cheap". 2. Anyone else who gets stomped all day and thinks STD gear is expensive. Thing is, if you regularly go 3/10 in skirmishes chances are you can't afford a 10k ISK STD level fitting the whole time. If you go 10/3 in skirmishes chances are you can easily afford to run ADV all the time (which is why you have such an awesome KDR). There is very few space in between these two examples because the matchmaking and ISK-payout system really hate new players. Reducing the power of MLT items will increase the problem because it'll cause new players to earn even less ISK, forcing them to rely on free fittings even more. Please try to fix the problem where it's caused. Nerfing MLT gear is not the way towards a better game.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15664	Posted - 2014.06.30 19:43:00 - [67] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: SOLUTION 1-All skills apply to MLT weapons/gear. New players enjoy benefits of skill choices they made immediately. New player experience improved; veteran player experience unchanged. 2-Make STD gear cost the same ISK as MLT gear. The economy is nearly a moot point now so lowering cost a few hundred ISK won't break anything. The incentive of using MLT to save ISK is removed. Only starter fits and bpos will offer this. New players have easier time purchasing higher tier and be happy to skill more STD gear to get extra ammo and lower fitting costs. Veteran players laugh at cost of STD already. New player experience improved; veteran player experience unchanged. Use of STD gear increases. I will still disagree with solution one especially if solution 2 is implemented which I am in all favor of. If I had to modify solution one it would be to make militia pre bonused but that's being oxymorons. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 242	Posted - 2014.06.30 19:53:00 - [68] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: This was brought up with a conversation with some folks in the dev chat room that some militia items are feeling a bit more powerful or powerful enough to rival the standard variants. Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) List modules or weapons you feel are too powerful for the level and the reason why they're too powerful. Ill start with an example Militia Shotgun is extremely powerful offering great stopping power for very similar performance in comparison to standard shotguns. While nerfing the damage of the shotgun can devalue the preview role I opt for the following, Reduction in Magazine size, reduction in total ammo. honestly until you fix the isk making issues, why take peoples militia crutch away? a bit backwards if you ask me... truthfully all your popular militia variants, rifle, shotty, forge, are powerful in the right hands, and with complex dmgh mods....
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1119	Posted - 2014.06.30 20:01:00 - [69] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: This was brought up with a conversation with some folks in the dev chat room that some militia items are feeling a bit more powerful or powerful enough to rival the standard variants. Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) List modules or weapons you feel are too powerful for the level and the reason why they're too powerful. Ill start with an example Militia Shotgun is extremely powerful offering great stopping power for very similar performance in comparison to standard shotguns. While nerfing the damage of the shotgun can devalue the preview role I opt for the following, Reduction in Magazine size, reduction in total ammo. Reduction of clip size means nothing if it can 2HK most medium suits and demolish heavies. Lower damage by 30% and increase the optimal range by 2 meters, it's baffling how so many players kept asking for buffs while a militia was able to 2HK my most tanked Assault GK.0. Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
Doyle Reese OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 480	Posted - 2014.06.30 20:11:00 - [70] - Quote SLIGHTLY lower Accuracy rating of MLT weapons? That's the only change I think would make to MLT weapons without crippling the NPE (anymore than it already is)

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15665	Posted - 2014.06.30 20:30:00 - [71] - Quote Doyle Reese wrote: SLIGHTLY lower Accuracy rating of MLT weapons? That's the only change I think would make to MLT weapons without crippling the NPE (anymore than it already is) I don't think this would be viable accuracy needs to be same across all tiers of the same variant. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2193	Posted - 2014.06.30 20:41:00 - [72] - Quote No equipment or tactic is OP. It just raises the users' KDR, and things get automatically harder for them until perfect equilibrium is reached. Well, under the right circumstances it would. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period. Seriously. Think about it.
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1075	Posted - 2014.06.30 22:27:00 - [73] - Quote there's only 3 types of people in dust's economy: -rich -wealthy (which i am wealthy) -poor people who are poor are generally the new people and people who dont do so well in pub match. people who are wealthy can afford to loose and restock a variety of things as long as they arent too expensive people who are rich can buy what ever they want, when ever they want and dont care if they loose a proto suit or vehicle NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15667	Posted - 2014.06.30 22:39:00 - [74] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: there's only 3 types of people in dust's economy: -rich -wealthy (which i am wealthy) -poor people who are poor are generally the new people and people who dont do so well in pub match. people who are wealthy can afford to loose and restock a variety of things as long as they arent too expensive people who are rich can buy what ever they want, when ever they want and dont care if they loose a proto suit or vehicle I would class as poor because I suck with assault dropships and my omnisoldier habit is rather expensive at times when its time to go experimental. Admittingly I use militia gear to far too great of an effect. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1076	Posted - 2014.06.30 22:58:00 - [75] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: knight guard fury wrote: there's only 3 types of people in dust's economy: -rich -wealthy (which i am wealthy) -poor people who are poor are generally the new people and people who dont do so well in pub match. people who are wealthy can afford to loose and restock a variety of things as long as they arent too expensive people who are rich can buy what ever they want, when ever they want and dont care if they loose a proto suit or vehicle I would class as poor because I suck with assault dropships and my omnisoldier habit is rather expensive at times when its time to go experimental. Admittingly I use militia gear to far too great of an effect. i prefer to use standard gear since its more effective than militia and i still go positive, unless im being proto stomped, and it doesnt cost me much. some to most of my basic fits cost 10k-18k NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1865	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:08:00 - [76] - Quote Just going to speak to the MLT shotgun: My suggestion would be to increase the spread PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
can dont Strange Playings 2	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:32:00 - [77] - Quote Temporary out of retirement post again: The MLT Gal Light suit has 1 HS and 3 LS. It's relatively fast and has 3hp/s built in reps. If you have 4 or 5 in electronics or engineering then you'll notice that it also has plenty of CPU/PG for a mix of STD and ADV stuff. Basically run around with a damage mod, 3 armor mods, hives, adv LW, and std nades. It's incredibly effective. It has a total base slot layout that is better than std gal scout and, I think, it has better CPU/PG by hair than the ADV Gal Scout. It also has higher reps than gal scout since gal scout nerf. It is the best overall cost effective suit in the entire game and of all time as far as I am concerned. The MLT Gal Med suit has everything the light suit has except it's about .5m/s slower, 2hp/s reps instead of 3hp/s, and is missing a HS and still has 3 LS. That being said, if you have 4 or 5 in E and E then you'll notice it has quite a lot of CPU/PG where you can fit some proto with std mods. Can run around on a 10k suit with 700 ehp and 2hp/s built in reps. The MLT Cal Heavy suit has btwn 900 and 1k base EHP without any slots filled with anything. Has an incredible amount of CPU/PG to work with. Almost 600hp is shields. I can mow down proto heavies b/c my shields are so effective at stopping armor based bullets. Shield recharge delay is way too good on this suit. The MLT Rep tool. CPU/PG practically cost nothing and is good enough to actually rack up WP. It's not OP b/c of how much it heals. It is OP b/c it can rack up way too many WP way too quickly without spending any real ISK. MLT Swarms are OP. Nah, i'm kidding. Just wanted to get a chuckle on that one. MLT Swarms are NOT OP.
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 253	Posted - 2014.07.01 01:12:00 - [78] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I will still disagree with solution one especially if solution 2 is implemented which I am in all favor of. I had to think about this for a minute but now understand your point and agree. Even if skills did apply to MLT, for the same ISK STD weapons are the superior choice. Use of MLT would be foolish. And by not applying skills to MLT use of STD is even further incentivized. Solution 2 is all that would be needed. AKA - StarVenger
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2014.07.01 02:19:00 - [79] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: SOLUTION 1-All skills apply to MLT weapons/gear. New players enjoy benefits of skill choices they made immediately. New player experience improved; veteran player experience unchanged. 2-Make STD gear cost the same ISK as MLT gear. The economy is nearly a moot point now so lowering cost a few hundred ISK won't break anything. The incentive of using MLT to save ISK is removed. Only starter fits and bpos will offer this. New players have easier time purchasing higher tier and be happy to skill more STD gear to get extra ammo and lower fitting costs. Veteran players laugh at cost of STD already. New player experience improved; veteran player experience unchanged. Use of STD gear increases. Uh, Solution 1. How on earth does this change anything. Say I'm a new player. I have no skills in... Rail Rifles but I keep dying to them and want to try them. I therefore am not affected by skills not applying to rail rifles because I HAVE NONE! The only argument towards keeping skills affecting MLT gear is so Vets can stomp newbies with free starter suits. NPE is NOT affected by this because they don't have skills to begin with. I now play a few games, like it and put some points into it. As soon as I get level 1 I can now buy Standard Rail Rifles, and immediately benefit from my skill choices which then continue to improve as I invest more skills. I see no reason for skills to apply to MLT gear. Recruit BPO's, Templar BPO's or any other special BPO should still get skills but the strict MLT BPO's should not. Cost of standard gear may impact NPE, that much is true, though I never have an issue, cost of skill books was my biggest issue, but not cost of gear, and I certainly don't run an epic K/D ratio (Though I often run a logi suit and die with rep tool in hand)
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 254	Posted - 2014.07.01 03:12:00 - [80] - Quote @ Nevyn Tazinas Allowing skills to apply to MLT would benefit new players who so often find themselves limited to starter fits or the cheapest of gear. AKA - StarVenger

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15671	Posted - 2014.07.01 03:21:00 - [81] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I will still disagree with solution one especially if solution 2 is implemented which I am in all favor of. I had to think about this for a minute but now understand your point and agree. Even if skills did apply to MLT, for the same ISK STD weapons are the superior choice. Use of MLT at this point would be foolish. And by not applying skills to MLT use of STD is even further incentivized. Solution 2 is all that would be needed. What about in the cases where there is a clear cut militia advantage though? and or there is no standardized equivalent? ie the oddball skin weaves and drens. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Anarchide Greedy Bastards 2236	Posted - 2014.07.01 04:15:00 - [82] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: [...] ie the oddball skin weaves and drens. Anarchide uses the Stare of Death I'm a pretty Princess
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15672	Posted - 2014.07.01 05:09:00 - [83] - Quote Anarchide wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: [...] ie the oddball skin weaves and drens. Anarchide uses the Stare of Death Just saying militia logistics suits... CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 136	Posted - 2014.07.01 05:16:00 - [84] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? No. There are blueprints that are technically militia, and I want to keep my passive bonuses on those. Also, the Militia RR is pretty OP. CCP, I thought I was going to start liking you again. I really did. Then you announced this event.
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2014.07.01 10:40:00 - [85] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: @ Nevyn Tazinas Allowing skills to apply to MLT would benefit new players who so often find themselves limited to starter fits or the cheapest of gear. Except it doesn't, because those new players don't have significant skills to begin with. It actually benefits the vets the most to allow skills on MLT gear. Since they have the full skill tree and are therefore getting a highly effective weapon at a fraction of the cost the Adv version costs that new player can just use with skill 3 but equivalent stats due to near maxxed skills.
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 258	Posted - 2014.07.01 15:25:00 - [86] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: What about in the cases where there is a clear cut militia advantage though? and or there is no standardized equivalent? ie the oddball skin weaves and drens........Just saying militia logistics suits... I am assuming this question is in regards to skill bonus applying. Am I correct? If so: A general rule of thumb: Meta Level 0 = MLT and no skills apply Meta Level 1 and greater = skills apply So in these cases of oddball gear you must decide if you want skills to apply. If so, raise their Meta Level to 1 or greater and treat them thereafter as STD. If not, lower the Meta Level to 0 and treat them thereafter as MLT. AKA - StarVenger
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1645	Posted - 2014.07.01 15:28:00 - [87] - Quote militia rail rifle feels a bit overwhelming to be militia I would say too much range maybe?? Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
lee corwood Knights Of Ender 865	Posted - 2014.07.01 16:35:00 - [88] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? Yay. I don't see how this hurts the new player base the way they claim if even in a proto's hands they don't benefit from the skills/suits. That's what we're talking about right? It only applies more incentive for those of us with the invested SP to bring in higher tiered gear for greater risk/reward. I wasn't even aware militia inherited those bonuses to begin with... Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender 866	Posted - 2014.07.01 16:39:00 - [89] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: A little off topic but could Militia Items be easier to fit than their STD tiers? Doesn't make sense why something that performs worse should be expensive to fit than STD Items. I've been trying to make Racial Starter Fittings but it's difficult to make a decent dropsuit without passing the PG/CPU. No, I feel that is working appropriately. Militia gear is 0 sp investment. I look at it as a brand new soldier that's never used the weapon before and has no experience with it. Thus, he's not used to carrying it around, he fumbles with its use and is not as good with it. As you gain more experience with the weapon (both time + sp), it's easier to carry, everything is muscle memory and you've fine tuned your craft. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
Arcturis Vanguard Red Star. EoN. 144	Posted - 2014.07.01 16:43:00 - [90] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: @ Nevyn Tazinas Allowing skills to apply to MLT would benefit new players who so often find themselves limited to starter fits or the cheapest of gear. Ccp needs to adjust starter fits to be standard gear. Skills do not apply to these starter fits (other then cpu/pg, biotic passive, ewar). This way vets never get an upper hand on players who are just starting. Vets can go back to starter fits to make money if needed and new players have a more competitive edge out of the academy. Mlt gear should be previews of how things perform in battle. Standard gear and up receive operation and racial bonuses. Not everyone will agree with me, but only experienced vets will benefit from skills being applied to militia gear then new players. Prime example would be the efficiency to armor plates. A full proto user will have a higher base ehp off the plate then someone who is standard. So if the proto user builds the same suit (militia) as the standard user, the proto will be tanked more. How is that fair for the new player? Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR

TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3745	Posted - 2014.07.01 16:49:00 - [91] - Quote If it was up to me, they'd be nerfed so bad that you'd literally just want to quickly test x mods/weapons or whatever and be using std to save isk. I despise mlt on every level. Just like every other Englishmen, I bath in tea, have no teeth and live in a castle.
Atiim Fooly Cooly. 10091	Posted - 2014.07.01 16:55:00 - [92] - Quote I'm just going to sit here and laugh at all the scrubs in this thread who think that MLT gear is overpowered. Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
CRNWLLC Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 334	Posted - 2014.07.01 17:15:00 - [93] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: This was brought up with a conversation with some folks in the dev chat room that some militia items are feeling a bit more powerful or powerful enough to rival the standard variants. Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) List modules or weapons you feel are too powerful for the level and the reason why they're too powerful. Ill start with an example Militia Shotgun is extremely powerful offering great stopping power for very similar performance in comparison to standard shotguns. While nerfing the damage of the shotgun can devalue the preview role I opt for the following, Reduction in Magazine size, reduction in total ammo. Your example is ridiculous. The fact that militia SGs offer the same stopping power as standard SGs is exactly the point--to give new comers to that weapon/mod/equipment/what-you-will a taste of what it's actually like. This, of course, comes at the cost of increased PG/CPU requirements. And even then, without a single level into the 'gear' in question, the experience isn't the same, as most skill levels also give a % increase to some stat or the efficacy of said 'gear'. There's even a little explanation about it on the load screen before matches. It'd assume you'd know this based on your CPM badge, but you are putting forth a most ret@rded example, so I feel my skepticism is warranted. I don't feel that any militia or standard/basic stuff is OP. I've actually come to the conclusion that TIERICIDE FTW because think of it like this: a noob with relevant level(s) @ 0 using militia gear not only has to use comparatively crappy gear (as in, Scr < Viziam ScR), they also don't get the advantage of efficacy/performance/stat bonuses that go along with the levels. For instance: a militia SG, per this table, does 36 damage/pellet. The prot-level CreoDron does 39.6--that's already 8.3% more damage/pellet, which is almost the same as two complex damage mods. Now, let's assume level 3 proficiency--that's another 9% against shields, or > 2 complex damage mods specifically against shields, which means cutting into armor faster. And it doesn't stop there! Level 5 SG operation grants a 15% reduction to spread, meaning more of the already much more damaging pellets will hit the target. I hope I've helped guide you to the righteous path. You can take a Dust bunny to water, but you can't make him stop coming up with stupid sh!t to say. BTW, I had fun dropping your proto PC ck.0 commando with my 'Templar' ScR and G-I scout twice in a Dom the other day. Hope you appreciated the t-bagging!
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1473	Posted - 2014.07.12 18:39:00 - [94] - Quote I was directed to this thread with the instruction 'try not to laugh'. The struggle is real. PS - liked OP just so it would give me an unlike button.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15903	Posted - 2014.07.12 18:49:00 - [95] - Quote I will have you know that despite all the japery and cacophonies there was an item identified that is getting fixed. Militia Large Railguns being able to fire more shots before overheating in comparison to any of the military grade ones. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Seigfried Warheit Opus Arcana 341	Posted - 2014.07.12 18:55:00 - [96] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: 3 words: Militia Rail Rifle 100 meter range on a militia gun... really? 100m my ass...at 90 its at 50% efficiency so unless the guy is super weak or just standing their for 5mins you cant kill him at 100m. I use a DS to hump things...... I am a prof. V scrub. I have no honor. c[_] Change spare change anyone


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