DUST Search - Are there any Militia Items you feel that are too powerful?

Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

So how about this?

Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits?

Yay or Nay?

NAY!!!!!!

The current model of higher fitting cost/ lower ammo is the correct approach to MLT weapons.

What you are not considering is how this negatively affects the new player and low SP player.

Weakening MLT weapons hurts new players and means losing them. Weaker MLT weapons means even harder to get kills for new players. If a new player is less successful then new player quits faster. How can a new player learn to use a weapon when the entry level version does not properly reflect the weapon's true potential.

A weaker MLT means weaker nubs.

A weaker MLT means weaker starter fits. Players who rely on sytarter fits will be nothing more than target practice; fodder for the proto.

MLT weapons ARE standard weapons, just less efficient....not weaker.

If you have EARNED the SP and have invested it in a weapon then you DESERVE the IMMEDIATE benefits of your choices NO MATTER WHAT TIER you are using.

By not allowing bonuses from suits you punish players for not skilling in the "correct" order. A player's choice is never wrong; SP investment should never be railroaded.

I apologize for the poorly constructed reply. I felt an expedient reply was more important than eloquence.

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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15645	Posted - 2014.06.28 21:40:00 - [1] - Quote This was brought up with a conversation with some folks in the dev chat room that some militia items are feeling a bit more powerful or powerful enough to rival the standard variants. Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) List modules or weapons you feel are too powerful for the level and the reason why they're too powerful. Ill start with an example Militia Shotgun is extremely powerful offering great stopping power for very similar performance in comparison to standard shotguns. While nerfing the damage of the shotgun can devalue the preview role I opt for the following, Reduction in Magazine size, reduction in total ammo. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 676	Posted - 2014.06.28 21:41:00 - [2] - Quote MLT armor plates: Ridiculous HP, low fitting cost, laughable penalty "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 4063	Posted - 2014.06.28 21:44:00 - [3] - Quote The DPS scale from MLT to STD to PRO on FGs is negligible for the amount of ISK/SP invested. I got Killed by a MLT PLC (didn't even know those existed) last week, so they must be OP (according to common player misconceptions) PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race
Arcturis Vanguard Red Star. EoN. 133	Posted - 2014.06.28 21:50:00 - [4] - Quote First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. I haven't played with all the racial additions but at times the militia shotgun feels better (hit detection and spread) then the advanced variants. I have been slain a few times with the scrambler, god the gun hurts!! Lol but as always it's a great skill shot rifle. As long as the skills aren't applied to the weapon, just keep cpu/pg consumption higher, damage lower then base variants, and overall clip/ pool smaller then base variants. Everyone will be happy. Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 603	Posted - 2014.06.28 22:16:00 - [5] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: MLT armor plates: Ridiculous HP, low fitting cost, laughable penalty I could not disagree more. Maybe before the hotfixes you had a point, but MLT armor plates have a 300% fitting increase from their pre-alpha and bravo days. The only weapons I see as a tad too good at MLT are the Forge Gun and Shotgun. They are just as good as their standard variants and show up on the kill feed quite often. I have enjoyed trying out the MLT variants of weapons I would have never skilled into otherwise. MLT tanks were way too good before Bravo. Now they seem to be in their place. Maybe just a slight nerf of their CPU and Grid to stop ADV turrets from being used on them? Most of the modules and equipment seem to be in a good place as well. They give you a good taste of what they can do for you, but leave you wanting more. Except those MLT nanohives, they are terrible, lol. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN 785	Posted - 2014.06.28 22:18:00 - [6] - Quote 3 words: Militia Rail Rifle 100 meter range on a militia gun... really? "I never pull out" ~Ace Boone, 2014.
Mortedeamor NoGameNoLife 1680	Posted - 2014.06.28 22:49:00 - [7] - Quote MLT PLC
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2770	Posted - 2014.06.28 22:51:00 - [8] - Quote Arcturis Vanguard wrote: First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. Definitely this. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
I-Shayz-I I----------I 3818	Posted - 2014.06.28 23:00:00 - [9] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: 3 words: Militia Rail Rifle 100 meter range on a militia gun... really? Yeah, I think this is the one militia weapon I've been killed by more than any of the others. Maybe an increase to kick to make it really hard to use at those ranges or an increase in the charge-up time. It's almost sad that since the introduction of the mlt RR, I've seen a drastic reduction to the amount of new players using the sniper rifle or sniper starter fit. While I agree with you about the shotgun IWS, I've never had issues with it in-game, but then again I'm not one to die easily by a shotgun anymore. It does require light weapons level 4, so I can see why players would use it rather than the std version. The mlt combat rifle is just as good as the standard one really. Increased kick would be nice, or a smaller clip. The only other weapon I've had issues with is the mlt scrambler...but I feel it is still very balanced just as the other scramblers are. Most new players will overheat with it before they can do significant damage, but the real balancing factor is the -20% damage to armor. Other than that, I'm glad a mlt HMG wasn't introduced. The main issue isn't damage output, but the fact that skilling into the HMG requires quite a bit of sp into weaponry. ________________________________________________________________________ I'm sure that you're already aware of this, but one of the single most important factors about mlt weapons/items is that they do NOT receive any bonuses from dropsuit or weapon skill bonuses. While yes, any player can use the mlt version instead of the std or adv to get a decent damage output for a very low isk price...if they have prof in the weapon, any reload or ammo skills, or are using a suit that benefits said weapon (Amarr Assault laser/scrambler bonus for example), using mlt will decrease the preformance much more than just a few bullets in the mag and an increased reload speed. This is the primary reason why I never use mlt even if I'm trying to save money... 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1209	Posted - 2014.06.28 23:11:00 - [10] - Quote None of the militia items are over powered as far as I can tell. (Did they fix the numbers for blueprint items to the updated numbers?) Now if you feel militia is the go to choice when players are trying to make isk.... well what do you expect? I mean its like people are playing the game the best way they can for their needs... and people are not happy? You want to even nerf new player gear even more? Are you lot insane!!?? Investigate 9/11

Tectonic Fusion 1797	Posted - 2014.06.28 23:18:00 - [11] - Quote No skills on MLT weapons and add a MLT only mode.
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1067	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:17:00 - [12] - Quote IMO, its not really a militia weapons are OP, but more of a, since im skilled into this particular wepon and know how it works, i will use this miltia weapon to its full use. and it has the same dps stats as its STD variant so dps isnt a problem, with most miltia weapons. they already have a lower clip size and ammo capacity i think. my only problem is that shotguns are easy mode killing. if someone could do the math, it would be better if a std shotgun can 1 shot a std suit, 2 shot a ADV, and 4 shot a prototype. adv shotty could 1 shot STD and ADV, but only 2-4 shot proto, and proto type should 1 shot every one but 2 shot proto. (assuming all these are medium frames) NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1067	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:18:00 - [13] - Quote also milita weapons dont factor in skills already so that shouldnt be a problem. and adding a MLT only mode would benifit the skilled players who can use MLT weapons to thuer benifit NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10515	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:23:00 - [14] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: MLT armor plates: Ridiculous HP, low fitting cost, laughable penalty Now compare that to militia armor repairers. Now compare the militia armor repairers to the base recharge of shield suits. Suddenly the reason for the high HP at the low end becomes clear, doesn't it? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 92	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:28:00 - [15] - Quote heres my two cents on mlt Shotgun that **** has jumped in my face, point blank, and two-shotted me in full proto Amarr heavy your goddamn right its OP
Forever ETC Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 622	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:37:00 - [16] - Quote A little off topic but could Militia Items be easier to fit than their STD tiers? Doesn't make sense why something that performs worse should be expensive to fit than STD Items. I've been trying to make Racial Starter Fittings but it's difficult to make a decent dropsuit without passing the PG/CPU. Don't you shiver PS News VIZZZIAM
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1067	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:41:00 - [17] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: A little off topic but could Militia Items be easier to fit than their STD tiers? Doesn't make sense why something that performs worse should be expensive to fit than STD Items. I've been trying to make Racial Starter Fittings but it's difficult to make a decent dropsuit without passing the PG/CPU. because it wants to promote the use of better gear so you dont have to use crap gear NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15647	Posted - 2014.06.29 00:46:00 - [18] - Quote So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.06.29 01:14:00 - [19] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) I thought that militia items were for those who didn't have enough sp AND for when you need isk. So, if that's not the case, what is the "proper" way of getting more isk?
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 684	Posted - 2014.06.29 01:20:00 - [20] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: MLT armor plates: Ridiculous HP, low fitting cost, laughable penalty Now compare that to militia armor repairers. Now compare the militia armor repairers to the base recharge of shield suits. Suddenly the reason for the high HP at the low end becomes clear, doesn't it? Now compare to militia shield extenders. "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 888	Posted - 2014.06.29 01:21:00 - [21] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? I'm okay with this. After all, militia stuff should be used when you don't have any applicable skills. Dust/Eve transfers
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.06.29 01:26:00 - [22] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? I would still like the recruit BPO's to get bonuses by skills though. T-T please?
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3885	Posted - 2014.06.29 01:36:00 - [23] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: MLT armor plates: Ridiculous HP, low fitting cost, laughable penalty Now compare that to militia armor repairers. Now compare the militia armor repairers to the base recharge of shield suits. Suddenly the reason for the high HP at the low end becomes clear, doesn't it? Now compare to militia shield extenders. Two mods for 66hp repping at 15-50hp/s seems pretty nice compared to two mods for 85HP repping at 2.5hp/s with a speed penalty of 3(?)%. Makes sense to me. I know which one I'd pick. Although you probably think that 19HP is a significant number, don't you. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3347	Posted - 2014.06.29 02:00:00 - [24] - Quote There is nothing "OP" in the militia section at the moment. The militia rail rifle has a smaller clip and longer reload time, plates take considerable more fitting space etc. Only because it can kill you its not "too good". There is a reason why militia stuff is the most used gear in the game and that is because 95% of the players just are simply horrible at FPS games. The average blueberry cant even achieve a KDR above 1 (and that is allready generous). Alot of people use militia cause they just cant afford more. Hell some blueberrys go something like 1-19 on skirmish and even with cheap fits that cost like 10k a pop the guy lost 190k ISK while he probs made somewhere around 150k. Like ive mentioned before: "people dont use militia because they want to, they use it because they cant afford anything better". This game rewards good players and punishes the bad. CCP incroporated this by full knowledge and the golden ticket out of this hell for most people is just to buy AUR. Another fact for this is the recently removed passive ISK from PC. There was a overflow of ISK and players got "too wealthy" which ofcourse lowered the AUR sales so CCP had to put an end to this.
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1067	Posted - 2014.06.29 02:39:00 - [25] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? since when the hell did miltia gear ever get bonuses from the actual gun skills NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Atiim EnvyUs. 9973	Posted - 2014.06.29 02:55:00 - [26] - Quote Arcturis Vanguard wrote: First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. And why is that? I think they should, because it means that even players with 20m+ SP will still have a use for them, which is good. Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15648	Posted - 2014.06.29 02:56:00 - [27] - Quote Atiim wrote: Arcturis Vanguard wrote: First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. And why is that? I think they should, because it means that even players with 20m+ SP will still have a use for them, which is good. This is not by design. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Atiim EnvyUs. 9973	Posted - 2014.06.29 02:58:00 - [28] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Atiim wrote: Arcturis Vanguard wrote: First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. And why is that? I think they should, because it means that even players with 20m+ SP will still have a use for them, which is good. This is not by design. So? A lot of good things happened by mistake. Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 238	Posted - 2014.06.29 03:21:00 - [29] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? *NAY!!!!!!* The current model of higher fitting cost/ lower ammo is the correct approach to MLT weapons. What you are not considering is how this negatively affects the new player and low SP player. Weakening MLT weapons hurts new players and means losing them. Weaker MLT weapons means even harder to get kills for new players. If a new player is less successful then new player quits faster. How can a new player learn to use a weapon when the entry level version does not properly reflect the weapon's true potential. A weaker MLT means weaker nubs. A weaker MLT means weaker starter fits. Players who rely on sytarter fits will be nothing more than target practice; fodder for the proto. MLT weapons ARE standard weapons, just less efficient....not weaker. If you have EARNED the SP and have invested it in a weapon then you DESERVE the IMMEDIATE benefits of your choices NO MATTER WHAT TIER you are using. By not allowing bonuses from suits you punish players for not skilling in the "correct" order. A player's choice is never wrong; SP investment should never be railroaded. I apologize for the poorly constructed reply. I felt an expedient reply was more important than eloquence. AKA - StarVenger
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.06.29 03:49:00 - [30] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? *NAY!!!!!!* The current model of higher fitting cost/ lower ammo is the correct approach to MLT weapons. What you are not considering is how this negatively affects the new player and low SP player. Weakening MLT weapons hurts new players and means losing them. Weaker MLT weapons means even harder to get kills for new players. If a new player is less successful then new player quits faster. How can a new player learn to use a weapon when the entry level version does not properly reflect the weapon's true potential. A weaker MLT means weaker nubs. A weaker MLT means weaker starter fits. Players who rely on sytarter fits will be nothing more than target practice; fodder for the proto. MLT weapons ARE standard weapons, just less efficient....not weaker. If you have EARNED the SP and have invested it in a weapon then you DESERVE the IMMEDIATE benefits of your choices NO MATTER WHAT TIER you are using. By not allowing bonuses from suits you punish players for not skilling in the "correct" order. A player's choice is never wrong; SP investment should never be railroaded. I apologize for the poorly constructed reply. I felt an expedient reply was more important than eloquence. This. Jagermeister brings up a good point about how this would affect the new player experience. If you are really serious about seeing what the community says about nerfing militia items and weapons, why not ask those who depend on militia items the most? Send a message to everyone with 2 million sp or less and ask them to go take a survey. Then see if they still want to play after the majority of their fitting options are further weakened, thus making it easier for them to get pwned when they go up against advanced or proto players. btw, I still haven't received an answer for my previous post: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) I thought that militia items were for those who didn't have enough sp AND for when you need isk. So, if that's not the case, what is the "proper" way of getting more isk?



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