DUST Search - Are there any Militia Items you feel that are too powerful?

CommanderBolt wrote:

The dark cloud wrote:

There is nothing "OP" in the militia section at the moment. The militia rail rifle has a smaller clip and longer reload time, plates take considerable more fitting space etc. Only because it can kill you its not "too good". There is a reason why militia stuff is the most used gear in the game and that is because 95% of the players just are simply horrible at FPS games. The average blueberry cant even achieve a KDR above 1 (and that is allready generous).

Alot of people use militia cause they just cant afford more. Hell some blueberrys go something like 1-19 on skirmish and even with cheap fits that cost like 10k a pop the guy lost 190k ISK while he probs made somewhere around 150k. Like ive mentioned before: "people dont use militia because they want to, they use it because they cant afford anything better".

This game rewards good players and punishes the bad. CCP incroporated this by full knowledge and the golden ticket out of this hell for most people is just to buy AUR. Another fact for this is the recently removed passive ISK from PC. There was a overflow of ISK and players got "too wealthy" which ofcourse lowered the AUR sales so CCP had to put an end to this.

Agreed.

Seriously I cant believe IWS and others are actually even discussing this!

Militia weapons should OF COURSE receive the same bonuses that any other weapon would from the players skills. Why the hell would the worst level weapon NOT recieve the bonus? That makes no sense.

Are you trying to push new players / more casual players out of this game even more?

People run militia because its cheap, this game requires you to manage a currency - not many other games do. So while the top boys in PC have farmed billions to spend, the average casual dude might not even be able to afford his ADV fitting he has just about got the skills for.

There is already huge imbalance in this game as it is and you guys want to push that imbalance EVEN further.

This thread is shameful. Really think about what you are doing.....

Addition - I don't have a problem with balancing things like damage, clip size etc as I do believe Militia equipment and weapons should be weaker than standard gear. I just feel any skill bonuses should always be applied.

Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR

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Arcturis Vanguard Red Star. EoN. 141	Posted - 2014.06.29 22:20:00 - [61] - Quote Atiim wrote: Arcturis Vanguard wrote: First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. And why is that? I think they should, because it means that even players with 20m+ SP will still have a use for them, which is good because it adds tier diversity to the battlefield. Basic gear is already cheap enough to make good money. If you have "20+ m" you have a good enough understanding not to throw yourself at an objective over and over again. With that amount of sp basic gear can take advantage of the bonuses received from related skills. Militia gear is just a cheap preview of how something performs. Most skillable weapons, mods, etc are easy to obtain with sp. Hence militia should not receive skill based bonuses. Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Arcturis Vanguard Red Star. EoN. 141	Posted - 2014.06.29 22:43:00 - [62] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: The dark cloud wrote: There is nothing "OP" in the militia section at the moment. The militia rail rifle has a smaller clip and longer reload time, plates take considerable more fitting space etc. Only because it can kill you its not "too good". There is a reason why militia stuff is the most used gear in the game and that is because 95% of the players just are simply horrible at FPS games. The average blueberry cant even achieve a KDR above 1 (and that is allready generous). Alot of people use militia cause they just cant afford more. Hell some blueberrys go something like 1-19 on skirmish and even with cheap fits that cost like 10k a pop the guy lost 190k ISK while he probs made somewhere around 150k. Like ive mentioned before: "people dont use militia because they want to, they use it because they cant afford anything better". This game rewards good players and punishes the bad. CCP incroporated this by full knowledge and the golden ticket out of this hell for most people is just to buy AUR. Another fact for this is the recently removed passive ISK from PC. There was a overflow of ISK and players got "too wealthy" which ofcourse lowered the AUR sales so CCP had to put an end to this. Agreed. Seriously I cant believe IWS and others are actually even discussing this! Militia weapons should OF COURSE receive the same bonuses that any other weapon would from the players skills. Why the hell would the worst level weapon NOT recieve the bonus? That makes no sense. Are you trying to push new players / more casual players out of this game even more? People run militia because its cheap, this game requires you to manage a currency - not many other games do. So while the top boys in PC have farmed billions to spend, the average casual dude might not even be able to afford his ADV fitting he has just about got the skills for. There is already huge imbalance in this game as it is and you guys want to push that imbalance EVEN further. This thread is shameful. Really think about what you are doing..... Addition - I don't have a problem with balancing things like damage, clip size etc as I do believe Militia equipment and weapons should be weaker than standard gear. I just feel any skill bonuses should always be applied. So let me get this straight. We are concerned about the new player experience. Yes of course. We, the community, wants to be able to play modes where we can select teir grade. That is least what I have read many many times. So now we want those that have large pools of sp that have skilled into many many things be able to use their passive bonuses to elevate the militia gear above those that are just starting out. Doesn't this still create an imbalance between vets and beginners? Think about it. Weapons and mods should not receive skills bonus. The suits can still take advantage of cpu/pg skills along with biotics. Base gear is seriously cost effective enough for anyone, unless of course you seriously super terrible at an fps and in that case this genre just isn't for you. Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Sum1ne Else G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1234	Posted - 2014.06.30 13:40:00 - [63] - Quote Arcturis Vanguard wrote: First of all, passive skills should never be applied to militia weaponry. This goes for operational to racial benefits. I haven't played with all the racial additions but at times the militia shotgun feels better (hit detection and spread) then the advanced variants. I have been slain a few times with the scrambler, god the gun hurts!! Lol but as always it's a great skill shot rifle. As long as the skills aren't applied to the weapon, just keep cpu/pg consumption higher, damage lower then base variants, and overall clip/ pool smaller then base variants. Everyone will be happy. THIS^ I said this a LONG time ago, I may even be able to find my post- it got laughed at but Core skills should never apply to militia or blueprint gear. EDIT: Found my old post; back then I was saying to starter suits only but agree it should not transfer to BPO or militia gear https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1476457#post1476457 Impressive? Longest PLC Kill 151.8m - OHK on a Heavy Logi mk.0 - Commando gk.0 - Scout gk.0
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 13	Posted - 2014.06.30 14:10:00 - [64] - Quote Arcturis Vanguard wrote: Zelda Harkinian wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) I thought that militia items were for those who didn't have enough sp AND for when you need isk. So, if that's not the case, what is the "proper" way of getting more isk? The "proper" way to make money is to make leader board with war points. After that run basic gear. Run ambush all night to make millions of isk. make leader board, huh? Kind of hard to do in some matches when your side can't even get a tank in and you're dying every 100 war points. If making leader board is the proper way to make isk, then don't get angry at me if I start to spam Standard Nano-injectors and Standard Repair Tool.
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 249	Posted - 2014.06.30 14:13:00 - [65] - Quote SOLUTION 1-All skills apply to MLT weapons/gear. New players enjoy benefits of skill choices they made immediately. 2-Make STD gear cost the same to purchase as MLT gear. The economy is nearly moot point now so lowering cost a few hundred ISK won't break anything. The incentive to save ISK running MLT is removed. Only starter fits and bpos will offer this. New players will be happy to skill more STD gear to get extra ammo and lower fitting costs. AKA - StarVenger
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 649	Posted - 2014.06.30 17:36:00 - [66] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Let me state to you the larger problem. People don't use enough standard gear in a way that people do not use basic frame prototype suit tiers. Are you positive that this is because MLT is too good? I'd conclude that there are two types of people in Dust: 1. Awesome forum vets who consider using ADV gear as "being cheap". 2. Anyone else who gets stomped all day and thinks STD gear is expensive. Thing is, if you regularly go 3/10 in skirmishes chances are you can't afford a 10k ISK STD level fitting the whole time. If you go 10/3 in skirmishes chances are you can easily afford to run ADV all the time (which is why you have such an awesome KDR). There is very few space in between these two examples because the matchmaking and ISK-payout system really hate new players. Reducing the power of MLT items will increase the problem because it'll cause new players to earn even less ISK, forcing them to rely on free fittings even more. Please try to fix the problem where it's caused. Nerfing MLT gear is not the way towards a better game.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15664	Posted - 2014.06.30 19:43:00 - [67] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: SOLUTION 1-All skills apply to MLT weapons/gear. New players enjoy benefits of skill choices they made immediately. New player experience improved; veteran player experience unchanged. 2-Make STD gear cost the same ISK as MLT gear. The economy is nearly a moot point now so lowering cost a few hundred ISK won't break anything. The incentive of using MLT to save ISK is removed. Only starter fits and bpos will offer this. New players have easier time purchasing higher tier and be happy to skill more STD gear to get extra ammo and lower fitting costs. Veteran players laugh at cost of STD already. New player experience improved; veteran player experience unchanged. Use of STD gear increases. I will still disagree with solution one especially if solution 2 is implemented which I am in all favor of. If I had to modify solution one it would be to make militia pre bonused but that's being oxymorons. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 242	Posted - 2014.06.30 19:53:00 - [68] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: This was brought up with a conversation with some folks in the dev chat room that some militia items are feeling a bit more powerful or powerful enough to rival the standard variants. Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) List modules or weapons you feel are too powerful for the level and the reason why they're too powerful. Ill start with an example Militia Shotgun is extremely powerful offering great stopping power for very similar performance in comparison to standard shotguns. While nerfing the damage of the shotgun can devalue the preview role I opt for the following, Reduction in Magazine size, reduction in total ammo. honestly until you fix the isk making issues, why take peoples militia crutch away? a bit backwards if you ask me... truthfully all your popular militia variants, rifle, shotty, forge, are powerful in the right hands, and with complex dmgh mods....
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1119	Posted - 2014.06.30 20:01:00 - [69] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: This was brought up with a conversation with some folks in the dev chat room that some militia items are feeling a bit more powerful or powerful enough to rival the standard variants. Remember these items are supposed to preview the role not be a goto crutch when you're needing isk (which is a separate problem on its own) List modules or weapons you feel are too powerful for the level and the reason why they're too powerful. Ill start with an example Militia Shotgun is extremely powerful offering great stopping power for very similar performance in comparison to standard shotguns. While nerfing the damage of the shotgun can devalue the preview role I opt for the following, Reduction in Magazine size, reduction in total ammo. Reduction of clip size means nothing if it can 2HK most medium suits and demolish heavies. Lower damage by 30% and increase the optimal range by 2 meters, it's baffling how so many players kept asking for buffs while a militia was able to 2HK my most tanked Assault GK.0. Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
Doyle Reese OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 480	Posted - 2014.06.30 20:11:00 - [70] - Quote SLIGHTLY lower Accuracy rating of MLT weapons? That's the only change I think would make to MLT weapons without crippling the NPE (anymore than it already is)

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15665	Posted - 2014.06.30 20:30:00 - [71] - Quote Doyle Reese wrote: SLIGHTLY lower Accuracy rating of MLT weapons? That's the only change I think would make to MLT weapons without crippling the NPE (anymore than it already is) I don't think this would be viable accuracy needs to be same across all tiers of the same variant. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2193	Posted - 2014.06.30 20:41:00 - [72] - Quote No equipment or tactic is OP. It just raises the users' KDR, and things get automatically harder for them until perfect equilibrium is reached. Well, under the right circumstances it would. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period. Seriously. Think about it.
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1075	Posted - 2014.06.30 22:27:00 - [73] - Quote there's only 3 types of people in dust's economy: -rich -wealthy (which i am wealthy) -poor people who are poor are generally the new people and people who dont do so well in pub match. people who are wealthy can afford to loose and restock a variety of things as long as they arent too expensive people who are rich can buy what ever they want, when ever they want and dont care if they loose a proto suit or vehicle NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15667	Posted - 2014.06.30 22:39:00 - [74] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: there's only 3 types of people in dust's economy: -rich -wealthy (which i am wealthy) -poor people who are poor are generally the new people and people who dont do so well in pub match. people who are wealthy can afford to loose and restock a variety of things as long as they arent too expensive people who are rich can buy what ever they want, when ever they want and dont care if they loose a proto suit or vehicle I would class as poor because I suck with assault dropships and my omnisoldier habit is rather expensive at times when its time to go experimental. Admittingly I use militia gear to far too great of an effect. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1076	Posted - 2014.06.30 22:58:00 - [75] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: knight guard fury wrote: there's only 3 types of people in dust's economy: -rich -wealthy (which i am wealthy) -poor people who are poor are generally the new people and people who dont do so well in pub match. people who are wealthy can afford to loose and restock a variety of things as long as they arent too expensive people who are rich can buy what ever they want, when ever they want and dont care if they loose a proto suit or vehicle I would class as poor because I suck with assault dropships and my omnisoldier habit is rather expensive at times when its time to go experimental. Admittingly I use militia gear to far too great of an effect. i prefer to use standard gear since its more effective than militia and i still go positive, unless im being proto stomped, and it doesnt cost me much. some to most of my basic fits cost 10k-18k NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1865	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:08:00 - [76] - Quote Just going to speak to the MLT shotgun: My suggestion would be to increase the spread PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
can dont Strange Playings 2	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:32:00 - [77] - Quote Temporary out of retirement post again: The MLT Gal Light suit has 1 HS and 3 LS. It's relatively fast and has 3hp/s built in reps. If you have 4 or 5 in electronics or engineering then you'll notice that it also has plenty of CPU/PG for a mix of STD and ADV stuff. Basically run around with a damage mod, 3 armor mods, hives, adv LW, and std nades. It's incredibly effective. It has a total base slot layout that is better than std gal scout and, I think, it has better CPU/PG by hair than the ADV Gal Scout. It also has higher reps than gal scout since gal scout nerf. It is the best overall cost effective suit in the entire game and of all time as far as I am concerned. The MLT Gal Med suit has everything the light suit has except it's about .5m/s slower, 2hp/s reps instead of 3hp/s, and is missing a HS and still has 3 LS. That being said, if you have 4 or 5 in E and E then you'll notice it has quite a lot of CPU/PG where you can fit some proto with std mods. Can run around on a 10k suit with 700 ehp and 2hp/s built in reps. The MLT Cal Heavy suit has btwn 900 and 1k base EHP without any slots filled with anything. Has an incredible amount of CPU/PG to work with. Almost 600hp is shields. I can mow down proto heavies b/c my shields are so effective at stopping armor based bullets. Shield recharge delay is way too good on this suit. The MLT Rep tool. CPU/PG practically cost nothing and is good enough to actually rack up WP. It's not OP b/c of how much it heals. It is OP b/c it can rack up way too many WP way too quickly without spending any real ISK. MLT Swarms are OP. Nah, i'm kidding. Just wanted to get a chuckle on that one. MLT Swarms are NOT OP.
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 253	Posted - 2014.07.01 01:12:00 - [78] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I will still disagree with solution one especially if solution 2 is implemented which I am in all favor of. I had to think about this for a minute but now understand your point and agree. Even if skills did apply to MLT, for the same ISK STD weapons are the superior choice. Use of MLT would be foolish. And by not applying skills to MLT use of STD is even further incentivized. Solution 2 is all that would be needed. AKA - StarVenger
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2014.07.01 02:19:00 - [79] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: SOLUTION 1-All skills apply to MLT weapons/gear. New players enjoy benefits of skill choices they made immediately. New player experience improved; veteran player experience unchanged. 2-Make STD gear cost the same ISK as MLT gear. The economy is nearly a moot point now so lowering cost a few hundred ISK won't break anything. The incentive of using MLT to save ISK is removed. Only starter fits and bpos will offer this. New players have easier time purchasing higher tier and be happy to skill more STD gear to get extra ammo and lower fitting costs. Veteran players laugh at cost of STD already. New player experience improved; veteran player experience unchanged. Use of STD gear increases. Uh, Solution 1. How on earth does this change anything. Say I'm a new player. I have no skills in... Rail Rifles but I keep dying to them and want to try them. I therefore am not affected by skills not applying to rail rifles because I HAVE NONE! The only argument towards keeping skills affecting MLT gear is so Vets can stomp newbies with free starter suits. NPE is NOT affected by this because they don't have skills to begin with. I now play a few games, like it and put some points into it. As soon as I get level 1 I can now buy Standard Rail Rifles, and immediately benefit from my skill choices which then continue to improve as I invest more skills. I see no reason for skills to apply to MLT gear. Recruit BPO's, Templar BPO's or any other special BPO should still get skills but the strict MLT BPO's should not. Cost of standard gear may impact NPE, that much is true, though I never have an issue, cost of skill books was my biggest issue, but not cost of gear, and I certainly don't run an epic K/D ratio (Though I often run a logi suit and die with rep tool in hand)
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 254	Posted - 2014.07.01 03:12:00 - [80] - Quote @ Nevyn Tazinas Allowing skills to apply to MLT would benefit new players who so often find themselves limited to starter fits or the cheapest of gear. AKA - StarVenger

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15671	Posted - 2014.07.01 03:21:00 - [81] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I will still disagree with solution one especially if solution 2 is implemented which I am in all favor of. I had to think about this for a minute but now understand your point and agree. Even if skills did apply to MLT, for the same ISK STD weapons are the superior choice. Use of MLT at this point would be foolish. And by not applying skills to MLT use of STD is even further incentivized. Solution 2 is all that would be needed. What about in the cases where there is a clear cut militia advantage though? and or there is no standardized equivalent? ie the oddball skin weaves and drens. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Anarchide Greedy Bastards 2236	Posted - 2014.07.01 04:15:00 - [82] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: [...] ie the oddball skin weaves and drens. Anarchide uses the Stare of Death I'm a pretty Princess
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15672	Posted - 2014.07.01 05:09:00 - [83] - Quote Anarchide wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: [...] ie the oddball skin weaves and drens. Anarchide uses the Stare of Death Just saying militia logistics suits... CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 136	Posted - 2014.07.01 05:16:00 - [84] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? No. There are blueprints that are technically militia, and I want to keep my passive bonuses on those. Also, the Militia RR is pretty OP. CCP, I thought I was going to start liking you again. I really did. Then you announced this event.
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2014.07.01 10:40:00 - [85] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: @ Nevyn Tazinas Allowing skills to apply to MLT would benefit new players who so often find themselves limited to starter fits or the cheapest of gear. Except it doesn't, because those new players don't have significant skills to begin with. It actually benefits the vets the most to allow skills on MLT gear. Since they have the full skill tree and are therefore getting a highly effective weapon at a fraction of the cost the Adv version costs that new player can just use with skill 3 but equivalent stats due to near maxxed skills.
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 258	Posted - 2014.07.01 15:25:00 - [86] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: What about in the cases where there is a clear cut militia advantage though? and or there is no standardized equivalent? ie the oddball skin weaves and drens........Just saying militia logistics suits... I am assuming this question is in regards to skill bonus applying. Am I correct? If so: A general rule of thumb: Meta Level 0 = MLT and no skills apply Meta Level 1 and greater = skills apply So in these cases of oddball gear you must decide if you want skills to apply. If so, raise their Meta Level to 1 or greater and treat them thereafter as STD. If not, lower the Meta Level to 0 and treat them thereafter as MLT. AKA - StarVenger
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1645	Posted - 2014.07.01 15:28:00 - [87] - Quote militia rail rifle feels a bit overwhelming to be militia I would say too much range maybe?? Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
lee corwood Knights Of Ender 865	Posted - 2014.07.01 16:35:00 - [88] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So how about this? Militia gear shouldn't get any bonuses from skills/suits? Yay or Nay? Yay. I don't see how this hurts the new player base the way they claim if even in a proto's hands they don't benefit from the skills/suits. That's what we're talking about right? It only applies more incentive for those of us with the invested SP to bring in higher tiered gear for greater risk/reward. I wasn't even aware militia inherited those bonuses to begin with... Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender 866	Posted - 2014.07.01 16:39:00 - [89] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: A little off topic but could Militia Items be easier to fit than their STD tiers? Doesn't make sense why something that performs worse should be expensive to fit than STD Items. I've been trying to make Racial Starter Fittings but it's difficult to make a decent dropsuit without passing the PG/CPU. No, I feel that is working appropriately. Militia gear is 0 sp investment. I look at it as a brand new soldier that's never used the weapon before and has no experience with it. Thus, he's not used to carrying it around, he fumbles with its use and is not as good with it. As you gain more experience with the weapon (both time + sp), it's easier to carry, everything is muscle memory and you've fine tuned your craft. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
Arcturis Vanguard Red Star. EoN. 144	Posted - 2014.07.01 16:43:00 - [90] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: @ Nevyn Tazinas Allowing skills to apply to MLT would benefit new players who so often find themselves limited to starter fits or the cheapest of gear. Ccp needs to adjust starter fits to be standard gear. Skills do not apply to these starter fits (other then cpu/pg, biotic passive, ewar). This way vets never get an upper hand on players who are just starting. Vets can go back to starter fits to make money if needed and new players have a more competitive edge out of the academy. Mlt gear should be previews of how things perform in battle. Standard gear and up receive operation and racial bonuses. Not everyone will agree with me, but only experienced vets will benefit from skills being applied to militia gear then new players. Prime example would be the efficiency to armor plates. A full proto user will have a higher base ehp off the plate then someone who is standard. So if the proto user builds the same suit (militia) as the standard user, the proto will be tanked more. How is that fair for the new player? Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR



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