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Eko Sol
Strange Playings
484
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alright. So, at first, I thought it was going to be awesome watching all of the nerfs on vehicles b/c it would make AV so much easier. Now it is so unbelievably easy NO ONE IS USING VEHICLES. And the few that do get completely annihilated.
The fact that there are no vehicles in ambush not only blows my mind but is completely indicative of how bad players are and that CCP has to make changes so that bad players can still be bad players BUT without vehicles.
Vehicle Rep nerf = fine but unnecessary
-Good players didn't need that much reps and bad players died anyway with triple rep maddy's
I actually like the changes to RE's. nothing like doing almost 10k Effective Damage with only 3 Proto RE's
MLT Racials = unnecessary but sure why not
What is even more hilarious is that vehicles are easy to destroy even with swarms yet people aren't pulling out AV in Domination.
Anyway, those are my points.
Glad to see that scouts can shoot an entire shot out of their shotgun still and be completely invisible for that first shot.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Vicious Minotaur
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
975
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
I remember when CCP heeded warnings against doing twofold fixes.
CCP:
Fixed a bug making Forges and Swarms less effective than they should be
Nerfed vehicle reppers
And maybe something else, can't recall and don't feel like looking it up, so...
Thanks to that twofold (threefold? fourfold?) "fix," things are not well in vehicle/AV balance. That's what happens when you do too many things at once.
You'd have thought they had learned by now.
I am a minotaur.
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Eko Sol
Strange Playings
486
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:I remember when CCP heeded warnings against doing twofold fixes.
CCP:
Fixed a bug making Forges and Swarms less effective than they should be
Nerfed vehicle reppers
And maybe something else, can't recall and don't feel like looking it up, so...
Thanks to that twofold (threefold? fourfold?) "fix," things are not well in vehicle/AV balance. That's what happens when you do too many things at once.
You'd have thought they had learned by now.
All they had to do was increase efficacy for swarms against Incubus. The RE thing is actually good. Now you have to use some CPU and PG in order to get higher level RE's to use against tanks. AV nades are about right. I honestly can't see why or how anything after that made any sense.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Khulmach
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
People are using Lavs now man.Get with it
Now you see me,now you die(Nova knife slash)
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
11055
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Better for us to be UP, even though we certainly are not, and peeps to begrudgingly admit tankers have it rough instead of be hyper OP.
BRING BACK pre 1.6 HAV and modules!
" Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well."
-Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
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Eko Sol
Strange Playings
487
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Better for us to be UP, even though we certainly are not, and peeps to begrudgingly admit tankers have it rough instead of be hyper OP.
BRING BACK pre 1.6 HAV and modules!
EXACTLY!!!! If they are going to put AV back to 1.6 then they should have the same vehicles and module slots available.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
14781
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Posted - 2014.06.23 22:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:
Nerfed vehicle reppers
All they had to do was increase efficacy for swarms against Incubus.
Not really, because then you'd still have the triple rep Madrugars.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Polka will never die.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
11056
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Posted - 2014.06.23 22:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Eko Sol wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:
Nerfed vehicle reppers
All they had to do was increase efficacy for swarms against Incubus. Not really, because then you'd still have the triple rep Madrugars.
And as a Tanker even I hate those.
" Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well."
-Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
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Atiim
NoGameNoLife
9775
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Posted - 2014.06.23 23:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Alright. So, at first, I thought it was going to be awesome watching all of the nerfs on vehicles b/c it would make AV so much easier. Now it is so unbelievably easy NO ONE IS USING VEHICLES. And the few that do get completely annihilated.
Or perhaps the majority of players have stopped spamming them because they're bad pilots who can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag now that Swarm Launchers actually do something to them.
That's most likely the case.
I want SLAVs, not SLAVEs.
"Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..."
-HAND
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Atiim
NoGameNoLife
9775
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Posted - 2014.06.23 23:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:
All they had to do was increase efficacy for swarms against Incubus. The RE thing is actually good. Now you have to use some CPU and PG in order to get higher level RE's to use against tanks. AV nades are about right. I honestly can't see why or how anything after that made any sense.
The only other changes they made to AV was buffing the Plasma Cannon and fixing the glitch where Proficiency Skills were not applying against vehicles.
I think fixing glitches makes sense.
I want SLAVs, not SLAVEs.
"Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..."
-HAND
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Michael Arck
4844
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Posted - 2014.06.23 23:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
LOL! Yea, crazy isn't it? But this sort of thing has been going on for some time. Oh well, I'm more interested in what the next excuse will be for ambush. I know one is coming. Probably removing prototype suits from the game mode.
People are changing the game to get an edge. Not their game though, the game itself.
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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DarthJT5
12th Shadow Legion
63
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Posted - 2014.06.23 23:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
ummm.... you obviously haven't faced any good tankers if all of them are too easy... i dont lose very often to ONE AV guy. Only time that happens is when im derpin around trying to ram an RE guy
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Up and coming Python pilot.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3305
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Posted - 2014.06.24 00:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
First off if you are not seeing vehicles in ambush then you are probs playing the 50 clone variant which has vehicles banned all together. Secondly most of the so called "tankers" where scrubs who relied on the tripple repping madrugar to just run over AV while they manically laughed at them. |
Eko Sol
Strange Playings
487
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Posted - 2014.06.24 00:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Eko Sol wrote:
All they had to do was increase efficacy for swarms against Incubus. The RE thing is actually good. Now you have to use some CPU and PG in order to get higher level RE's to use against tanks. AV nades are about right. I honestly can't see why or how anything after that made any sense.
The only other changes they made to AV was buffing the Plasma Cannon and fixing the glitch where Proficiency Skills were not applying against vehicles. I think fixing glitches makes sense.
Ok, that is 100% agreeable. I am very happy they fixed glitches. Plasma Cannon is weird because the description doesn't actually say it is AV. It is actually described as CQC weapon. That being said, I like the plasma Cannon buffs.
Rebuttle or input on other statements:
1) Triple rep maddy's die really easily to RE's and AV nades and since that is one of the primary methods I beat those tankers I never had a problem with them.
2) @Atiim, I think vehicles were over nerfed. I am not against a little nerf but I think things were a bit overnerfed between Hotfix A and B. I think they should have taken smaller steps is all. I get that some bad players were getting away with seeming skilled when they weren't but even skilled vehicle users are suffering a little to my Proto Swarms.
3) The only tanks that don't get RE'd by me are tanks that keep moving and go into the red to get rid of the RE I put on them and then get back into the game. That's it. Those are the only ones. I will ALWAYS get ONE RE on every tank. It's getting the 2nd and 3rd that is the pain. Triple Rep Maddy's only need 1 on the weak spot and I use AV nades to get rid of their shields. That being said, really good tankers are very difficult to RE.
4) @Arck, you get it.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Atiim
NoGameNoLife
9775
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Posted - 2014.06.24 00:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:
2) @Atiim, I think vehicles were over nerfed. I am not against a little nerf but I think things were a bit overnerfed between Hotfix A and B. I think they should have taken smaller steps is all. I get that some bad players were getting away with seeming skilled when they weren't but even skilled vehicle users are suffering a little to my Proto Swarms.
How were they overnerfed?
Besides bug-fixes, the only thing that was nerfed was the HP/s on Armor Repairers, which was indeed warranted. I think your starting to see the effects of what happens when bad players don't have gear to carry them.
I want SLAVs, not SLAVEs.
"Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..."
-HAND
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Takahashi Kashuken
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2014.06.24 00:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Eko Sol wrote:
2) @Atiim, I think vehicles were over nerfed. I am not against a little nerf but I think things were a bit overnerfed between Hotfix A and B. I think they should have taken smaller steps is all. I get that some bad players were getting away with seeming skilled when they weren't but even skilled vehicle users are suffering a little to my Proto Swarms.
How were they overnerfed? Besides bug-fixes, the only thing that was nerfed was the HP/s on Armor Repairers, which was indeed warranted. I think your starting to see the effects of what happens when bad players don't have gear to carry them.
Only thing that was nerfed - lolno
Damage mods - nerfed
Railgun damage - nerfed
Railgun refire time - nerfed
Railgun Overheat limit - nerfed
Armor reps - nerfed
Blaster accuracy - nerfed
Small blaster accuracy - nerfed |
Eko Sol
Strange Playings
487
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Posted - 2014.06.24 00:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Eko Sol wrote:
2) @Atiim, I think vehicles were over nerfed. I am not against a little nerf but I think things were a bit overnerfed between Hotfix A and B. I think they should have taken smaller steps is all. I get that some bad players were getting away with seeming skilled when they weren't but even skilled vehicle users are suffering a little to my Proto Swarms.
How were they overnerfed? Besides bug-fixes, the only thing that was nerfed was the HP/s on Armor Repairers, which was indeed warranted. I think your starting to see the effects of what happens when bad players don't have gear to carry them.
I stand by bugs should have been fixed in Bravo. I think they should have nerfed reps in Charlie. One at a time. All your other criticism is valid.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3733
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Posted - 2014.06.24 01:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Takahashi Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:Eko Sol wrote:
2) @Atiim, I think vehicles were over nerfed. I am not against a little nerf but I think things were a bit overnerfed between Hotfix A and B. I think they should have taken smaller steps is all. I get that some bad players were getting away with seeming skilled when they weren't but even skilled vehicle users are suffering a little to my Proto Swarms.
How were they overnerfed? Besides bug-fixes, the only thing that was nerfed was the HP/s on Armor Repairers, which was indeed warranted. I think your starting to see the effects of what happens when bad players don't have gear to carry them. Only thing that was nerfed - lolno Damage mods - nerfed Railgun damage - nerfed Railgun refire time - nerfed Railgun Overheat limit - nerfed Armor reps - nerfed Blaster accuracy - nerfed Small blaster accuracy - nerfed
Not often I agree with Takahiro, but here's another like for you.
CCP Rattati Best Dev
AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
CalLogi, you're next!
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
3092
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Posted - 2014.06.24 01:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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DarthJT5
12th Shadow Legion
67
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Posted - 2014.06.24 01:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
i honestly dont see much of a change.
on a side note, when does the discussion for charlie begin?
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Up and coming Python pilot.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Eko Sol
Strange Playings
488
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Posted - 2014.06.24 01:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
Here is the thing. It used to take 2 RE's on the weak spot of a triple Rep Maddy and 1 proto AV nade. With the AV nade buff from Alpha I can take out a triple rep Maddy with one single 1500hp RE on the weak spot of a maddy when the shields are down (i.e. 2 AV nades).
PLC Buff doesn't matter at all.
The two bug fixes increased total AV DPS quite a lot. There should have been an eval time before nerfing reps. now, because of reps. There are vehicles that don't leave the red line.
I like the changes to RE's to an extent. I think it should take more CPU and PG to effectively take out tanks. I don't like the delay but, tbh, I don't think it is working and haven't noticed it at all.
Proto swarms used to do a little over 1k damage against an incubus before Bravo. now it does about double. That is a huge increase in damage AND then rep is nerfed and now with proficiency it is even more damage total. This is a huge change. Doing both at the same time is quite drastic. Now imagine a bunch of damage mods on the swarms.
Too much nerfing and buffing at once. That is my only complaint. Because of this, the adaptive response from the player base is too slow moving and it is showing on the battlefield. The result is a serious decrease in vehicles on the field. Balance shouldn't mean that people don't use them anymore. Balance should mean that people have to be better than before in order to be equally as effective BUT still can do SOMETHING on the battlefield. Virtually Zero vehicles doesn't mean there is balance. The only tanks I have seen were the ones sitting in the red line or a couple of rare ones that popped out with Nitro turned on and then popped back.
I recommend a middle ground on REPs (i.e. between Alpha and Bravo values) and a base increase to vehicle HP to make up for the huge damage changes related to proficiency.
There has to be SOMETHING
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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pyramidhead 420
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
551
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
the power button is the only way to balance this turd |
Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
Psychotic Alliance
1380
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 02:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
Because you needed reps based on a bug. You didn't see if fixing the bug would help things. As it stands, vehicles don't leave the redline if there even called in at all, and now rails can't even compete with missiles or blasters because they die before they can do enough damage. Lucky for me, I have a 30m skill point infantry character to wait out this vehicle mess, but its another case of turning too many knobs at onc e.
What happened to small changes to test balance?
Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
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Lynn Beck
NoGameNoLife
1900
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
I have no qualms with how they nerfed Railguns. RoF was a necessary removal because ADS pilots regardless of fitting were 2 shotted faster than the average human reaction time.
Dmg was dropped because, even with a RoF nerf, they'd still be able to 1 shot Pythons.
Heat buildup is the only one i think shoul have been left, although firing 6/9 bullets in one go was a bit ubsurd.
Now, rails are more for ranged suppression and/or AVing instead of a CQC anti-material shotgun.
Blasters are something a railgunner has to fear, as whn it comes into CQC, that railgunner had better **** himself.
General John Ripper
-HAM(Yum)
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Non-Association Foster Care Office
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
881
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Buff plates
Dust/Eve transfers
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1921
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
I think you nailed the rail and damage mod nerf right on the head. Rails and damage mods are right where they need to be now.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
--
"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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iKILLu osborne
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
37
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
bah i popped 14 tanks today with my rail, 6 missile, 3 blaster,5 rail.
Tanks are where they need to be, all you need is a armor hardener and fuel injector ( and a bit of know-how)
hey you liar! i didn't sneak up on you, i was following you for 5 minutes , waiting for you to hack that cru for a camp
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Atiim
NoGameNoLife
9779
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:
I stand by bugs should have been fixed in Bravo. I think they should have nerfed reps in Charlie. One at a time. All your other criticism is valid.
While that does seem good in theory, even if the proficiency change made AV weapons effective against Triple 'Rep' Madrugars, the HP/s would still need to be nerfed in the sense that they were making Shield Tanks (the ones that are supposed to have high regen, but with lower buffer) obsolete.
Not to mention that it the Triple 'Rep' Madrugar would still be able to out-DPS 80GJ Blasters, which are also AV weapons.
I want SLAVs, not SLAVEs.
"Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..."
-HAND
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
897
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Posted - 2014.06.24 04:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
In my opinion the tank/AV balance is about right, psychologically though it is disheartening to people who thought pulling out a tank was a low risk way to victory. Good tankers with good builds can still do well.
The more valid tanker issue seems to be lack of choice and variety and getting benefit from their investment. I don't know how to fix any of that without messing up what we have now.
Because, that's why.
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Hawkin P
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
426
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Posted - 2014.06.24 14:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
Large Blaster was never suppose to be anti-infantry? Then what was Large Missile, Large Rail Gun? Both are horrible at killing infantry. If you are try to make tanks only useful at killing each other it's almost like taking tanks out of the game. Because then tanks become irrelevant. You only need them if the other side has them. Also why would you think increasing small blaster dispersion was a buff?
However I don't know what the OP is talking about when he says no one is using vehicles anymore, I think he has only been playing ambush where most tankers/ADS won't play the game because you can't choose between OMS and ambush, and no one wants to have only a 50% chance of being able to use their main role. Vehicles are everywhere in Dom & Skirmish, and I like where infantry AV is ATM. I think it's well balanced. I Play both tanker and infantry, I don't find AV overpowered at all. I like the nerf to rail tanks. Large missiles need some serious work.
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Baal Omniscient
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
1793
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 14:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:True Adamance wrote:Better for us to be UP, even though we certainly are not, and peeps to begrudgingly admit tankers have it rough instead of be hyper OP.
BRING BACK pre 1.6 HAV and modules! EXACTLY!!!! If they are going to put AV back to 1.6 then they should have the same vehicles and module slots available.
I'm down for that. If they really DO give back my pre-1.6 swarms. Which they haven't. Not even close.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Baal Omniscient
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
1793
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 14:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
@OP: The excessive force used against vehicles is just AV players getting vengeance for the BS they've out up with for the last 6 months. It'll die down when FotM chaser tankers die out and only GOOD tankers actually run tanks.
Good tankers still do good, scrub tankers are the ones pissing and moaning everywhere. MLT tanks no longer require a scout with 4+ RE's to kill or a forge gunner hiding on a tower, and it never should have required that.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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M1tch Rapp
Last VenDetta.
Dark Taboo
137
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 16:07:00 -
[33] - Quote
I don't know what game you guys are playing. I still see tank and DS spam in every match. |
edgardo1156
Grupo de Asalto Chacal
RISE of LEGION
8
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Posted - 2014.06.24 19:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
Rattati, please fix the look of the blaster cannons, shots that do not disperse, it is now impossible to kill infantry and ammo just much faster.
Rindanse ante el Imperio Amarr. Vine a esclavizar de nuevo a los Minmatar que escaparon de nuestro imperio. xD
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Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
3047
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Posted - 2014.06.24 19:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
I love this post so much because it kills the "Large blasters are AI so we should be able to steam roll people" argument that some scrub tankers like to drag out |
Seymour KrelbornX
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
175
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Posted - 2014.06.24 19:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:@OP: The excessive force used against vehicles is just AV players getting vengeance for the BS they've out up with for the last 6 months. It'll die down when FotM chaser tankers die out and only GOOD tankers actually run tanks.
Good tankers still do good, scrub tankers are the ones pissing and moaning everywhere. MLT tanks no longer require a scout with 4+ RE's to kill or a forge gunner hiding on a tower, and it never should have required that.
I agree once all the scrub tankers realize their I win button is gone and no amount of QQ on the forums will bring it back, you will see less av and only good, dedicated tankers. |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
1017
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Posted - 2014.06.24 19:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Alright. So, at first, I thought it was going to be awesome watching all of the nerfs on vehicles b/c it would make AV so much easier. Now it is so unbelievably easy NO ONE IS USING VEHICLES. And the few that do get completely annihilated.
The fact that there are no vehicles in ambush not only blows my mind but is completely indicative of how bad players are and that CCP has to make changes so that bad players can still be bad players BUT without vehicles.
Vehicle Rep nerf = fine but unnecessary
-Good players didn't need that much reps and bad players died anyway with triple rep maddy's
I actually like the changes to RE's. nothing like doing almost 10k Effective Damage with only 3 Proto RE's
MLT Racials = unnecessary but sure why not
What is even more hilarious is that vehicles are easy to destroy even with swarms yet people aren't pulling out AV in Domination.
Anyway, those are my points.
Glad to see that scouts can shoot an entire shot out of their shotgun still and be completely invisible for that first shot.
It's crazy isn't it, most of my matches I run a forge with the intent to run tanks down. They might call out a MLT tank or two, even a STD tank every now and again. But you forge those down like they are nothing and they don't want to play anymore. Very sad:(
Or, they drive into the redline just to kill your LAV, only to be dropped by the redline, like one particular tanker the other day. Twice he did that, and once he jumped out with intent to kill me but nope, redline killed him. Must have been pretty butthurt over the 3 other tanks I killed prior to those 2
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Eko Sol
Strange Playings
491
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Posted - 2014.06.24 21:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Eko Sol wrote:Alright. So, at first, I thought it was going to be awesome watching all of the nerfs on vehicles b/c it would make AV so much easier. Now it is so unbelievably easy NO ONE IS USING VEHICLES. And the few that do get completely annihilated.
The fact that there are no vehicles in ambush not only blows my mind but is completely indicative of how bad players are and that CCP has to make changes so that bad players can still be bad players BUT without vehicles.
Vehicle Rep nerf = fine but unnecessary
-Good players didn't need that much reps and bad players died anyway with triple rep maddy's
I actually like the changes to RE's. nothing like doing almost 10k Effective Damage with only 3 Proto RE's
MLT Racials = unnecessary but sure why not
What is even more hilarious is that vehicles are easy to destroy even with swarms yet people aren't pulling out AV in Domination.
Anyway, those are my points.
Glad to see that scouts can shoot an entire shot out of their shotgun still and be completely invisible for that first shot.
It's crazy isn't it, most of my matches I run a forge with the intent to run tanks down. They might call out a MLT tank or two, even a STD tank every now and again. But you forge those down like they are nothing and they don't want to play anymore. Very sad:( Or, they drive into the redline just to kill your LAV, only to be dropped by the redline, like one particular tanker the other day. Twice he did that, and once he jumped out with intent to kill me but nope, redline killed him. Must have been pretty butthurt over the 3 other tanks I killed prior to those 2
Yep it is crazy imo. Actually, had one match earlier where my corp mate and I were targeted by over 5 vehicles at a time and we did fairly well holding them off. Sadly, BBerries didn't get the hack while so many were focused on us.
We used to run LAV's where we both would jump out and destroy tanks. Unfortunately, most tanks that are in the game stay in the red line now. And another unfortunate thing is this team killing phenom thing where people on our team run around trying to kill our LAV's with us in it.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Pvt Numnutz
Watchdoge Explosives
1543
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 21:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
No one is using vehicles?? Really?? |
Eko Sol
Strange Playings
491
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 21:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
M1tch Rapp wrote:I don't know what game you guys are playing. I still see tank and DS spam in every match.
LOL, Had one game earlier today where it was very bad. Other than that, it is just tanks in the red or nothing. Occasional LAV. Sometimes South and I take out early spam and just don't see it come back.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
|
|
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Dalton Smithe
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
100
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 21:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
LAV's and dropships are significantly harder to kill with the current rail turret set up. If you wanted to do something to the rail turret, the cycle time and damage yes, but increasing the heat? That was a bit much. Now if I fire 4 rounds I overheat.
I think in charlie, the range should get a buff --with-- falloff, and reduce the heat buildup to pre-bravo.
Damage mods didn't affect me, I don't use them, so I can't say anything about it.
As it sits, LAV's can run around and not have to worry very much about getting killed, AV players don't generally do anything about them(from what I have experienced). |
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2903
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 22:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
BAMM, Dev owns OP.
I will tell you why people don't use tanks like they used to, it's because they are no longer FOTM.
I still see plenty of Tankers playing and roling around, the only difference is if you have dedicated AV on the other side that AV does it's job effectively.
The large blaster, fired in small bursts in more than accurate enough to deal with the majority of infantry enemies at about 35m and the small blaster now works better than before.
Railguns are now no longer the be all and end all of vehicle-vehicle fights and missile turrets are having a resurgence.
Futhermore more tanks are actually attempting more 'unique' fits and we are seeing a larger number of Dropships (all varieties).
AV is now no lomger a lost cause (a few tweaks and we are perfect) and does it's advertised job effectively.
What more could you want?
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
Gabriel Ceja
Knights of Eternal Darkness
League of Infamy
11
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 22:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Alright. So, at first, I thought it was going to be awesome watching all of the nerfs on vehicles b/c it would make AV so much easier. Now it is so unbelievably easy NO ONE IS USING VEHICLES. And the few that do get completely annihilated.
The fact that there are no vehicles in ambush not only blows my mind but is completely indicative of how bad players are and that CCP has to make changes so that bad players can still be bad players BUT without vehicles.
Vehicle Rep nerf = fine but unnecessary
-Good players didn't need that much reps and bad players died anyway with triple rep maddy's
I actually like the changes to RE's. nothing like doing almost 10k Effective Damage with only 3 Proto RE's
MLT Racials = unnecessary but sure why not
What is even more hilarious is that vehicles are easy to destroy even with swarms yet people aren't pulling out AV in Domination.
Anyway, those are my points.
Glad to see that scouts can shoot an entire shot out of their shotgun still and be completely invisible for that first shot.
All the changes that were made were perfectly fine the reason why there is less tanks on the fields is because a lot of the fotm tankers are gone now that they can't run their glass cannons as efficiently as before and as for av it's pretty good right now forges may be just a little too powerful but all in all okay and the only tanks that get killed by solo av are the tanks that are still trying to run glass cannon fits
"Throw on the flux capacitor."
activates fuel injector
"WOOOOOO!!!"
|
Eko Sol
Strange Playings
491
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 22:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry. BAMM, Dev owns OP. I will tell you why people don't use tanks like they used to, it's because they are no longer FOTM. I still see plenty of Tankers playing and roling around, the only difference is if you have dedicated AV on the other side that AV does it's job effectively. The large blaster, fired in small bursts in more than accurate enough to deal with the majority of infantry enemies at about 35m and the small blaster now works better than before. Railguns are now no longer the be all and end all of vehicle-vehicle fights and missile turrets are having a resurgence. Futhermore more tanks are actually attempting more 'unique' fits and we are seeing a larger number of Dropships (all varieties). AV is now no lomger a lost cause (a few tweaks and we are perfect) and does it's advertised job effectively. What more could you want?
Ratatts reply was to another player and not myself. I never stated anything about rail nerfs being an issue. Another example of someone who just likes attention.
Gabriel Ceja wrote:
All the changes that were made were perfectly fine the reason why there is less tanks on the fields is because a lot of the fotm tankers are gone now that they can't run their glass cannons as efficiently as before and as for av it's pretty good right now forges may be just a little too powerful but all in all okay and the only tanks that get killed by solo av are the tanks that are still trying to run glass cannon fits
A) Other players basically stated this
B) Other players also believe AV isn't fine now and have stated as such
Is there some unofficial rule where people read the OP then the DEV post and then a post on the last page and then reply? Why do people insist on only reading what they want to read?
And no, the changes were not fine. They were done too quickly without gathering data. Only a moron buys a house without looking at what is inside and just predicts what it might look at. You look at it and sometimes even put a down payment to hold it longer. They made too many changes too quickly and people aren't adapting.
To the other people. Good players are suffering as well.
That being said, it looks like triple hardened Shield Tanks are where it is at. Those things are beasts right now.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2904
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 22:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry. BAMM, Dev owns OP. I will tell you why people don't use tanks like they used to, it's because they are no longer FOTM. I still see plenty of Tankers playing and roling around, the only difference is if you have dedicated AV on the other side that AV does it's job effectively. The large blaster, fired in small bursts in more than accurate enough to deal with the majority of infantry enemies at about 35m and the small blaster now works better than before. Railguns are now no longer the be all and end all of vehicle-vehicle fights and missile turrets are having a resurgence. Futhermore more tanks are actually attempting more 'unique' fits and we are seeing a larger number of Dropships (all varieties). AV is now no lomger a lost cause (a few tweaks and we are perfect) and does it's advertised job effectively. What more could you want? Ratatts reply was to another player and not myself. I never stated anything about rail nerfs being an issue. Another example of someone who just likes attention. Gabriel Ceja wrote:
All the changes that were made were perfectly fine the reason why there is less tanks on the fields is because a lot of the fotm tankers are gone now that they can't run their glass cannons as efficiently as before and as for av it's pretty good right now forges may be just a little too powerful but all in all okay and the only tanks that get killed by solo av are the tanks that are still trying to run glass cannon fits
A) Other players basically stated this B) Other players also believe AV isn't fine now and have stated as such Is there some unofficial rule where people read the OP then the DEV post and then a post on the last page and then reply? Why do people insist on only reading what they want to read? And no, the changes were not fine. They were done too quickly without gathering data. Only a moron buys a house without looking at what is inside and just predicts what it might look at. You look at it and sometimes even put a down payment to hold it longer. They made too many changes too quickly and people aren't adapting. To the other people. Good players are suffering as well. That being said, it looks like triple hardened Shield Tanks are where it is at. Those things are beasts right now.
It's pretty much exactly in response to your post. You complained that tanks were underpowered (which they are not)
Rattatai outlined what few chamges were made.
Sounds like he owns you to me.
Im hardly suffering, as an AV player, I hardly suffering as a Pilot either.
The Dev's have months worth of data to look at, its not exactly like this has been a snap descision by Rattatai, they spent plenty of time in consultation with players, you can even see these threads in the archive subforum.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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Eko Sol
Strange Playings
491
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 22:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
It's pretty much exactly in response to your post. You complained that tanks were underpowered (which they are not)
Rattatai outlined what few chamges were made.
Sounds like he owns you to me.
Im hardly suffering, as an AV player, I hardly suffering as a Pilot either.
The Dev's have months worth of data to look at, its not exactly like this has been a snap descision by Rattatai, they spent plenty of time in consultation with players, you can even see these threads in the archive subforum.
I'm just going to chalk this up to you being an idiot.
I never once said tanks were under powered. I stated, numerous times, that the changes to vehicles were too much too quickly. Someone else posted about rails and than Ratatti posted a reply.
At some point you also inferred that AV is suffering. It isn't suffering stupid. It's thriving. Why would I say anything otherwise?
I'm going to stop receiving notifications for this topic to avoid becoming dumber by spending more of my time on you.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
|
Atiim
NoGameNoLife
9805
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 22:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:I'm just going to chalk this up to you being an idiot.
I never once said tanks were under powered.
Implicitly, yes you did.
Eko Sol wrote:Now it is so unbelievably easy NO ONE IS USING VEHICLES. And the few that do get completely annihilated.
You shouldn't insult people for actually reading your posts.
Eko Sol wrote:I stated, numerous times, that the changes to vehicles were too much too quickly.
And this is where Monkey's statement about you being told off by CCP Ratatti comes into play, as Rattati said that the only changes made to vehicles which effects V/AV balance was an HP/s nerf.
I want SLAVs, not SLAVEs.
"Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..."
-HAND
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2905
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 23:08:00 -
[48] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote: Monkey MAC wrote:
It's pretty much exactly in response to your post. You complained that tanks were underpowered (which they are not)
Rattatai outlined what few chamges were made.
Sounds like he owns you to me.
Im hardly suffering, as an AV player, I hardly suffering as a Pilot either.
The Dev's have months worth of data to look at, its not exactly like this has been a snap descision by Rattatai, they spent plenty of time in consultation with players, you can even see these threads in the archive subforum.
I'm just going to chalk this up to you being an idiot.
Chalk it up to whatever you like my friend but as Atiim above has stated.
Eko Soul wrote:
I never once said tanks were under powered. I stated, numerous times, that the changes to vehicles were too much too quickly. Someone else posted about rails and than Ratatti posted a reply.
Now it is so unbelievably easy NO ONE IS USING VEHICLES. And the few that do get completely annihilated.
Sounds like that's exactly what you said
At some point you also inferred that AV is suffering. It isn't suffering stupid. It's thriving. Why would I say anything otherwise?
To the other people. Good players are suffering as well.
You said even good players were suffering, I said I wasn't suffering in either of dedicated 'vehicle-based' roles
I'm going to stop receiving notifications for this topic to avoid becoming dumber by spending more of my time on you.
Good idea I don't think your brain physically has the capacity to comprehend my vastly superior intellect!
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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edgardo1156
Grupo de Asalto Chacal
RISE of LEGION
8
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 15:56:00 -
[49] - Quote
I want the blaster cannons are as before. but if you let them, place them are also unlimited ammo then it is now very difficult to shoot and hit the target to another player.
Rindanse ante el Imperio Amarr. Vine a esclavizar de nuevo a los Minmatar que escaparon de nuestro imperio. xD
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VALCORE72
BATTLE SURVEY GROUP
Dark Taboo
184
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 17:11:00 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
SOMEONE GET THIS MAN A BEER . been sayn LB aint for inantry for months |
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CHANCEtheChAn
0uter.Heaven
447
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 17:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
Credentials: Closed beta vet, Open beta Vet, 12 month Planetary Conquest Vet
As a proto PC tanker for 3 weeks now
And a proto PC Cal scout/ Cal heavy for 3 months now
Here are my outlooks on why things were unviably nerfed
1. The blaster Nerf was warranted, as the blasters were so accurate that 5 day old scrubs were walking around in somas killing everything, all though I do not support not seeing a new skill that reduces the insane amount of dispersion for those that have put 10-20 million sp into vehicles and are forced to have the same ability to hit infantry as someone that has put 0 SP into vehicles.
2.Damage mods needed a Nerf, but not at the proto level, Damage mods at Proto needed to start at 30%, and then downgrade per tier down to 20% for Adv and 10% for basic. Starting at 20% at complex, I cannot justify it over a 40% shield hardener on a Gunloggi, or over a booster to run and outstrafe opponents. The 30% of damage mods were the only thing keeping it competitive vs Shield plates or shield hardness, just with a quicker cool down. Although a stacking penalty should be applied, allowing for the effective use of 1 Damage mod instead of double or triple for increased nerf
3. Heavy repper nerf was unjustified. The main portion of the heavy repper QQ, was because of triple rep tanks. This caused a concern for AV because much of AV is burst damage and not super high alpha damage . This allowed triple rep Madrugar's to rep through this damage. So I of course thought the natural oder of things would be to apply a stacking penalty to reppers so that people may still stack them, but by time the third complex is applied, it would only rep maybe 30-50hp/s (Compared to the 145). Instead all heavy reps have been nerfed by roughly 20%-25%, hurting shield tanks more than hurting armor tanks. Armor tankers are still stacking triple reps (With slightly less success) while shield tankers who used to rely on heavy reps to replenish health in between firefights, are now having to wait more Time in between fights to be able to get back into the action, and into what little action there is left because of what happened to Rails.
4. Rail damage was fine where it was, because now, at proto level, i can no longer 1 shot proto sentinels with a 280,000 ISK rail cannon, without a damage mod, with a well placed and accurate shot. But the ROF of a rail and the overheat nerfs at the same time are horrendous. For tankers, its like "Here use a Boundless HMG for 4 months and do good", and now all of a sudden its "Here use a burst hmg now, no boundless for you". Rail tanking is an art, and messing with the ROF has hurt that art. But allowing a tanker to fire one less shot before overheat at the same time is wrong.
This may look good on paper, but in actual game hurts the actual usage. Rail tank battles before Bravo used to be epic skill and tactic battles, where cycling mods and tearing down the enemy when theres were off was effective. Now, I literally sat on Home point by myself the other day in a PC and watched as my rail tanker and an enemy rail tanker went in circles and played 'ring around the rosy' around a water tower for 5 whole minutes before either tank died, the whole time listening to my compadre laugh maniacally about how bad rail tanks have become and how useless they are.
Multiple nerfs on a weapon, mod, or vehicle has proven time in and time out to be a CCP time altered tradition, and one that effectively devestates any and everything it touches (In case of the TAC AR and the Flaylock pistol).
What you have done is effectively made LAVs with proto turrets more effective a killing weapon than Proto turret tanks, I've tested this and my friend successfully killed and outmaneuvered 6 tanks in one skirmish with an LAV, while I could only kill 4 tanks with a proto rail turret tank. True my friend died once, but his losses would have been nowhere near my 500,000 ISK tank. One of our corpmates have even brought up the idea of using LAVs in cities as antivehicle deterrant during Planetary Conquest matches.
The current AV/Vehicle balance has been upset
And until SP sinking skills are introduced to vehicle pilots to make their turrets stand out , AV/Vehicle balance will continue to be upset
(Notice how every anti-tank thread has gone from "Tanks are OP", to " Lol tanks")
TL&DR
Blaster Nerf was needed
Damage mod Nerf could have been handled differently (30-25% at proto/20% at advanced/15-10% at basic)
Heavy Repair Module Nerf could have been dealt with by a stacking penalty rather than a module Nerf
Railgun is just lol now by its lonesome
For the first time in what seems like forever, people are actually laughing at other people who use tanks
Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
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Lynn Beck
NoGameNoLife
1923
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 18:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
Large turrets are not forAnti Infantry.
Run some smalls, and you'llhave people calling in Mlt Tanks(like myself) to kill you, and will die to your triple weapon platform.
General John Ripper
-BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse.
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
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Baal Omniscient
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
1828
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 19:49:00 -
[53] - Quote
CHANCEtheChAn wrote:{Snips for space}
1. The blaster Nerf was warranted, as the blasters were so accurate that 5 day old scrubs were walking around in somas killing everything, all though I do not support not seeing a new skill that reduces the insane amount of dispersion for those that have put 10-20 million sp into vehicles and are forced to have the same ability to hit infantry as someone that has put 0 SP into vehicles.
2.Damage mods needed a Nerf, but not at the proto level, Damage mods at Proto needed to start at 30%, and then downgrade per tier down to 20% for Adv and 10% for basic. Starting at 20% at complex, I cannot justify it over a 40% shield hardener on a Gunloggi, or over a booster to run and outstrafe opponents. The 30% of damage mods were the only thing keeping it competitive vs Shield plates or shield hardness, just with a quicker cool down. Although a stacking penalty should be applied, allowing for the effective use of 1 Damage mod instead of double or triple for increased nerf
3. Heavy repper nerf was unjustified. The main portion of the heavy repper QQ, was because of triple rep tanks. This caused a concern for AV because much of AV is burst damage and not super high alpha damage . This allowed triple rep Madrugar's to rep through this damage. So I of course thought the natural oder of things would be to apply a stacking penalty to reppers so that people may still stack them, but by time the third complex is applied, it would only rep maybe 30-50hp/s (Compared to the 145). Instead all heavy reps have been nerfed by roughly 20%-25%, hurting shield tanks more than hurting armor tanks. Armor tankers are still stacking triple reps (With slightly less success) while shield tankers who used to rely on heavy reps to replenish health in between firefights, are now having to wait more Time in between fights to be able to get back into the action, and into what little action there is left because of what happened to Rails.
4. Rail damage was fine where it was, because now, at proto level, i can no longer 1 shot proto sentinels with a 280,000 ISK rail cannon, without a damage mod, with a well placed and accurate shot. But the ROF of a rail and the overheat nerfs at the same time are horrendous. For tankers, its like "Here use a Boundless HMG for 4 months and do good", and now all of a sudden its "Here use a burst hmg now, no boundless for you". Rail tanking is an art, and messing with the ROF has hurt that art. But allowing a tanker to fire one less shot before overheat at the same time is wrong.
This may look good on paper, but in actual game hurts the actual usage. Rail tank battles before Bravo used to be epic skill and tactic battles, where cycling mods and tearing down the enemy when theres were off was effective. Now, I literally sat on Home point by myself the other day in a PC and watched as my rail tanker and an enemy rail tanker went in circles and played 'ring around the rosy' around a water tower for 5 whole minutes before either tank died, the whole time listening to my compadre laugh maniacally about how bad rail tanks have become and how useless they are.
I'm sorry to have to say this, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on a few things. I'll try to go in order.
1. I agree with the basis of this, but a SP sink for accuracy is not a good thing. It would be like HMG's starting off with 3x the spread and getting a tighter spread as you level up the skill (obviously doesn't translate in SP terms, but the comparison is solid due to the recticule). In this state, a basic tier HMG user might kill a heavy but the spread would be too great to kill anything with a smaller hitbox unless you are right on top of them, whereas a proto tier heavy can have the current spread and kill all suits. Basically you're saying new players get to fight other tanks, but PRO tankers get to kill infantry too. I won't quote Ratatti again about his stance on large turrets (it's all over the place now), but large blasters are NOT meant to go slaughtering infantry with.
2. Agreed.
3. Anything less than a 50% stacking penalty wouldn't have reduced the effectiveness enough to allow swarms and PLC's to beat the rep rate, but I do agree that a stacking penalty was a better way to go.
4. There should have been a large RoF drop, but the damage per shot should have stayed the same. The RoF basically let you 2 shot fully fitted and skilled dropships and ADS's out of the sky before they even had time to pull up the wheel, which is wrong.
To everything else, I cannot speak as I am not a tanker. This is what I observe as an AV player and dropship pilot who wants a challenge killing a tank but not to feel completely useless when they roll in, and also as a player who has been posting in these forums regularly and playing Dust for 2 years now.
Oh, one last thing. LAV's hunting tanks is a GOOD thing. They have turrets that are a threat to you now, so they are a distraction tactic for infantry to use against you. And it's also likely to cut down on jihad jeeps since people will likely get a lot more satisfaction feeling as though they are fighting a tank head to head in this way. Tanks can easily kill LAV's still (or run away or run over their car), and a tanker who sticks around long enough to get dropped by a LAV probably deserved to loose his tank. Who knows, maybe instead of proto hreavies popping out of their tanks with HMG's to kill infantry, we'll see swarms or forges hopping out to deal with LAV's lol
And those laughs are not laughs at tankers, but laughs of joy about finally being able to kill tanks again. It's just a lot of chest thumping since we swarmers have been out done by C4 and forge guns for over 6 months now. All of the crowing should die down before long, just ride it out. The same thing happened with tankers in 1.7.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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Mortedeamor
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
1650
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 20:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
ill explain
1 the forge gun isnt glitchin and works
2 your patch gave av balls again that is all
from 1.7 i have said popping tanks with av was doable granted it took allot more skill than it does now..
the armor repper nerfs were not needed module stacking penalties were needed..buts its whatever tanks are still viable av is more viable..
it takes very little strafing game to avoid the average blaster...but thats mostly because the average tanker has no gungame those that know how to control they're fire still rip av to pieces.
the only issues i see is there is no strong counter vs posted av anymore
rails are much weaker vs infantry because of the 4 round overheat..and the smaller clip...but the over heat on the rail and the clip size needed a nerf though/...i think it would be less of an issue
also there is a serious lack of variety with vehicle modules
if ccp brought out the older modules for turrets and speed though
so in short
bring back over drives and chassis
bring back active and passive heat sink modules
bring back turret tracking computers for rotation enhancement
and i feel it would be more balanced. |
Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
759
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 20:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Alright. So, at first, I thought it was going to be awesome watching all of the nerfs on vehicles b/c it would make AV so much easier. Now it is so unbelievably easy NO ONE IS USING VEHICLES. And the few that do get completely annihilated.
The fact that there are no vehicles in ambush not only blows my mind but is completely indicative of how bad players are and that CCP has to make changes so that bad players can still be bad players BUT without vehicles.
Vehicle Rep nerf = fine but unnecessary
-Good players didn't need that much reps and bad players died anyway with triple rep maddy's
I actually like the changes to RE's. nothing like doing almost 10k Effective Damage with only 3 Proto RE's
MLT Racials = unnecessary but sure why not
What is even more hilarious is that vehicles are easy to destroy even with swarms yet people aren't pulling out AV in Domination.
Anyway, those are my points.
Glad to see that scouts can shoot an entire shot out of their shotgun still and be completely invisible for that first shot.
Someone is mad they can't insta-kill infantry anymore with an invulnerable tank. Listen my friend, you can't steam roll players in a tank anymore because it just isn't fun for anyone but yourself. You can pretty much own any single player running around in a blaster tank. Hell, it happens to me at least once a match. You are invulnerable to just about all weapons but 3 (not including av grenades).
And just when you think AV is too easy, you must realize that it's now possible to kill tanks with 3 guys going at it. Before my entire squad would switch to AV and we couldn't get the kill, but now 2 guys can handle it... but 3 guys can clean up pretty quickly. Any more is overkill.
As far as removing vehicles from ambush. You have to be a seriously horrible player to think that having a tank in a match with 50 clones was fair. Your tank could wipe out an entire squad, before the first AV guy would come out. That's 32% of the total clones in the entire match! Now imagine that it takes several clones just to kill the tank... You can start to see why it was not a good idea to have a tank (supremely powerful) in those matches. But hey, at least you can pull a tank in an 80man ambush, and in every other match, unlimited to the numbers in Doms and Skirms and even in PC. So have fun with those.
Newb
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6178
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Posted - 2014.06.25 22:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
Nerds
This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2924
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Posted - 2014.06.25 23:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry. ill explain 1 the forge gun isnt glitchin and works 2 your patch gave av balls again that is all from 1.7 i have said popping tanks with av was doable granted it took allot more skill than it does now.. the armor repper nerfs were not needed module stacking penalties were needed..buts its whatever tanks are still viable av is more viable.. it takes very little strafing game to avoid the average blaster...but thats mostly because the average tanker has no gungame those that know how to control they're fire still rip av to pieces. the only issues i see is there is no strong counter vs posted av anymore rails are much weaker vs infantry because of the 4 round overheat..and the smaller clip...but the over heat on the rail and the clip size needed a nerf though/...i think it would be less of an issue also there is a serious lack of variety with vehicle modules if ccp brought out the older modules for turrets and speed though so in short bring back over drives and chassis bring back active and passive heat sink modules bring back turret tracking computers for rotation enhancement and i feel it would be more balanced.
Here is a tanker post I can get behind. However, be patient we are still sorting out dropships first though.
Although with a bit of luck we won't actually need to change any DPS stats at all.
My suit's a bit rusty, but that could just as easily be me!
Monkey Mac - Swinging from the Rooftops Forum Warrior Lvl2
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CHANCEtheChAn
0uter.Heaven
453
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Posted - 2014.06.26 06:29:00 -
[58] - Quote
Baal Omnicient wrote:{Snips for space} I'm sorry to henhanced/ay this, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on a few things. I'll try to go in order. 1. I agree with the basis of this, but a SP sink for accuracy is not a good thing. It would be like HMG's starting off with 3x the spread and getting a tighter spread as you level up the skill (obviously doesn't translate in SP terms, but the comparison is solid due to the recticule). In this state, a basic tier HMG user might kill a heavy but the spread would be too great to kill anything with a smaller hitbox unless you are right on top of them, whereas a proto tier heavy can have the current spread and kill all suits. Basically you're saying new players get to fight other tanks, but PRO tankers get to kill infantry too. I won't quote Ratatti again about his stance on large turrets (it's all over the place now), but large blasters are NOT meant to go slaughtering infantry with. 2. Agreed. 3. Anything less than a 50% stacking penalty wouldn't have reduced the effectiveness enough to allow swarms and PLC's to beat the rep rate, but I do agree that a stacking penalty was a better way to go. 4. There should have been a large RoF drop, but the damage per shot should have stayed the same. The RoF basically let you 2 shot fully fitted and skilled dropships and ADS's out of the sky before they even had time to pull up the wheel, which is wrong. To everything else, I cannot speak as I am not a tanker. This is what I observe as an AV player and dropship pilot who wants a challenge killing a tank but not to feel completely useless when they roll in, and also as a player who has been posting in these forums regularly and playing Dust for 2 years now. Oh, one last thing. LAV's hunting tanks is a GOOD thing. They have turrets that are a threat to you now, so they are a distraction tactic for infantry to use against you. And it's also likely to cut down on jihad jeeps since people will likely get a lot more satisfaction feeling as though they are fighting a tank head to head in this way. Tanks can easily kill LAV's still (or run away or run over their car), and a tanker who sticks around long enough to get dropped by a LAV probably deserved to loose his tank. Who knows, maybe instead of proto hreavies popping out of their tanks with HMG's to kill infantry, we'll see swarms or forges hopping out to deal with LAV's lol And those laughs are not laughs at tankers, but laughs of joy about finally being able to kill tanks again. It's just a lot of chest thumping since we swarmers have been out done by C4 and forge guns for over 6 months now. All of the crowing should die down before long, just ride it out. The same thing happened with tankers in 1.7.
Its not really that I want something to reduce dispersion on the blaster
Its just that I want SOMETHING that let's proto tankers that have sinked millions of SP into tanks be much better than people that have just spent 0-2 million sp into tanks
Currently the only tank skills that allow a proto tanker an edge over your opponent is
A. Up to 50% turret turn speed
B. 25% efficacy of armor repair modules
C. 25% faster shield recharge start time
D. 25% module last time
E. 25% module recharge time
Now this is all fine and dandy, but not something that is actually use full if your going into a rail tank battle
ALL of these bonuses are situational, and can take up to 8-13 million sp just to spec through
None of these really give you an EDGE over a militia tank, just a slight bonus to attributes
As opposed to suits, I do not see players putting all enhanced/proto guns and mods on their militia suits (which is presently possible with militia tanks that have sp into pg/CPU fittings).
Currently for those that are not tankers, I can fit all my proto/ enhanced mods on my Gunloggi, onto my sica (minus one of the high slots) and the fit still work, this shouldn't be the case. When you kill a militia tank, you should feel a sense of safety. When you kill a basic tank, you should feel a sense of pride. This is what I used to feel by killing Gunloggi 's with my sica all the time, a sense that I was superior and had better skill, until I actually got a Gunloggi. I then realized it was the same damn tank, just with an extra high slot and lower quality modules to compensate for that extra high slot.
Proposition 1
Include skills that give proto tankers advantages over militia tankers
Examples:
Blaster turrets-5% Range increase per level
Rail turrets-10% charge up speed increase of shots per level (keep the 1.6 second fire rate, but this allows the initial shot to be fired 50% faster at lv 5, can't tell you how many tanks or infantry I have had dead center mass and in the time it took to charge up, someone had moved out of the way at the last millisecond)
Missile turrets-10% blast radius per level(Or 10% splash damage per level?)
This would give all tankers who skill into these skills a slight yet definitive edge over those who do not. Make these a 6x-10x skill
Blaster would give the tanker with the higher skill a better range at which to engage an enemy tank or drop ship (The dispersion is terribad at 100 meters plus which is where this skill would take effect, so would not affect anti-infantry)
Rail would give tanker with higher skill a slightly faster beginning shot, allowing it a slightly faster DPS
Missile would give tanker with higher skill the ability to miss shots next to a tank and still have a much better chance at affecting heavy splash damage against enemy tank. Also helps with missile turrets poor Anti Infantry capability.
Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
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CHANCEtheChAn
0uter.Heaven
453
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Posted - 2014.06.26 06:39:00 -
[59] - Quote
*Oops ran out of room*
Proposition 2
Militia tank CPU/PG values are drastically reduced from that of their basic counter parts, or vice versa
Its simple, make militia tanks weak enough that they get crushed by better modded proper tanks, but still good enough that players with enhanced skill are competitive in militia tanks
Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
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