DUST Search - LOL, 2 weeks on Vacation and HotFix Bravo comes out...

Tebu Gan wrote:

Eko Sol wrote:

Alright. So, at first, I thought it was going to be awesome watching all of the nerfs on vehicles b/c it would make AV so much easier. Now it is so unbelievably easy NO ONE IS USING VEHICLES. And the few that do get completely annihilated.

The fact that there are no vehicles in ambush not only blows my mind but is completely indicative of how bad players are and that CCP has to make changes so that bad players can still be bad players BUT without vehicles.

Vehicle Rep nerf = fine but unnecessary
-Good players didn't need that much reps and bad players died anyway with triple rep maddy's

I actually like the changes to RE's. nothing like doing almost 10k Effective Damage with only 3 Proto RE's

MLT Racials = unnecessary but sure why not

What is even more hilarious is that vehicles are easy to destroy even with swarms yet people aren't pulling out AV in Domination.

Anyway, those are my points.

Glad to see that scouts can shoot an entire shot out of their shotgun still and be completely invisible for that first shot.

It's crazy isn't it, most of my matches I run a forge with the intent to run tanks down. They might call out a MLT tank or two, even a STD tank every now and again. But you forge those down like they are nothing and they don't want to play anymore. Very sad:(

Or, they drive into the redline just to kill your LAV, only to be dropped by the redline, like one particular tanker the other day. Twice he did that, and once he jumped out with intent to kill me but nope, redline killed him. Must have been pretty butthurt over the 3 other tanks I killed prior to those 2 Twisted


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Eko Sol Strange Playings 484	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:31:00 - [1] - Quote Alright. So, at first, I thought it was going to be awesome watching all of the nerfs on vehicles b/c it would make AV so much easier. Now it is so unbelievably easy NO ONE IS USING VEHICLES. And the few that do get completely annihilated. The fact that there are no vehicles in ambush not only blows my mind but is completely indicative of how bad players are and that CCP has to make changes so that bad players can still be bad players BUT without vehicles. Vehicle Rep nerf = fine but unnecessary -Good players didn't need that much reps and bad players died anyway with triple rep maddy's I actually like the changes to RE's. nothing like doing almost 10k Effective Damage with only 3 Proto RE's MLT Racials = unnecessary but sure why not What is even more hilarious is that vehicles are easy to destroy even with swarms yet people aren't pulling out AV in Domination. Anyway, those are my points. Glad to see that scouts can shoot an entire shot out of their shotgun still and be completely invisible for that first shot. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Eko Sol Strange Playings 486	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:45:00 - [2] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: I remember when CCP heeded warnings against doing twofold fixes. CCP: Fixed a bug making Forges and Swarms less effective than they should be Nerfed vehicle reppers And maybe something else, can't recall and don't feel like looking it up, so... Thanks to that twofold (threefold? fourfold?) "fix," things are not well in vehicle/AV balance. That's what happens when you do too many things at once. You'd have thought they had learned by now. All they had to do was increase efficacy for swarms against Incubus. The RE thing is actually good. Now you have to use some CPU and PG in order to get higher level RE's to use against tanks. AV nades are about right. I honestly can't see why or how anything after that made any sense. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Eko Sol Strange Playings 487	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:52:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Better for us to be UP, even though we certainly are not, and peeps to begrudgingly admit tankers have it rough instead of be hyper OP. BRING BACK pre 1.6 HAV and modules! EXACTLY!!!! If they are going to put AV back to 1.6 then they should have the same vehicles and module slots available. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Eko Sol Strange Playings 487	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:07:00 - [4] - Quote Atiim wrote: Eko Sol wrote: All they had to do was increase efficacy for swarms against Incubus. The RE thing is actually good. Now you have to use some CPU and PG in order to get higher level RE's to use against tanks. AV nades are about right. I honestly can't see why or how anything after that made any sense. The only other changes they made to AV was buffing the Plasma Cannon and fixing the glitch where Proficiency Skills were not applying against vehicles. I think fixing glitches makes sense. Ok, that is 100% agreeable. I am very happy they fixed glitches. Plasma Cannon is weird because the description doesn't actually say it is AV. It is actually described as CQC weapon. That being said, I like the plasma Cannon buffs. Rebuttle or input on other statements: 1) Triple rep maddy's die really easily to RE's and AV nades and since that is one of the primary methods I beat those tankers I never had a problem with them. 2) @Atiim, I think vehicles were over nerfed. I am not against a little nerf but I think things were a bit overnerfed between Hotfix A and B. I think they should have taken smaller steps is all. I get that some bad players were getting away with seeming skilled when they weren't but even skilled vehicle users are suffering a little to my Proto Swarms. 3) The only tanks that don't get RE'd by me are tanks that keep moving and go into the red to get rid of the RE I put on them and then get back into the game. That's it. Those are the only ones. I will ALWAYS get ONE RE on every tank. It's getting the 2nd and 3rd that is the pain. Triple Rep Maddy's only need 1 on the weak spot and I use AV nades to get rid of their shields. That being said, really good tankers are very difficult to RE. 4) @Arck, you get it. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Eko Sol Strange Playings 487	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:27:00 - [5] - Quote Atiim wrote: Eko Sol wrote: 2) @Atiim, I think vehicles were over nerfed. I am not against a little nerf but I think things were a bit overnerfed between Hotfix A and B. I think they should have taken smaller steps is all. I get that some bad players were getting away with seeming skilled when they weren't but even skilled vehicle users are suffering a little to my Proto Swarms. How were they overnerfed? Besides bug-fixes, the only thing that was nerfed was the HP/s on Armor Repairers, which was indeed warranted. I think your starting to see the effects of what happens when bad players don't have gear to carry them. I stand by bugs should have been fixed in Bravo. I think they should have nerfed reps in Charlie. One at a time. All your other criticism is valid. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Eko Sol Strange Playings 488	Posted - 2014.06.24 01:49:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff. How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance? The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry. Here is the thing. It used to take 2 RE's on the weak spot of a triple Rep Maddy and 1 proto AV nade. With the AV nade buff from Alpha I can take out a triple rep Maddy with one single 1500hp RE on the weak spot of a maddy when the shields are down (i.e. 2 AV nades). PLC Buff doesn't matter at all. The two bug fixes increased total AV DPS quite a lot. There should have been an eval time before nerfing reps. now, because of reps. There are vehicles that don't leave the red line. I like the changes to RE's to an extent. I think it should take more CPU and PG to effectively take out tanks. I don't like the delay but, tbh, I don't think it is working and haven't noticed it at all. Proto swarms used to do a little over 1k damage against an incubus before Bravo. now it does about double. That is a huge increase in damage AND then rep is nerfed and now with proficiency it is even more damage total. This is a huge change. Doing both at the same time is quite drastic. Now imagine a bunch of damage mods on the swarms. Too much nerfing and buffing at once. That is my only complaint. Because of this, the adaptive response from the player base is too slow moving and it is showing on the battlefield. The result is a serious decrease in vehicles on the field. Balance shouldn't mean that people don't use them anymore. Balance should mean that people have to be better than before in order to be equally as effective BUT still can do SOMETHING on the battlefield. Virtually Zero vehicles doesn't mean there is balance. The only tanks I have seen were the ones sitting in the red line or a couple of rare ones that popped out with Nitro turned on and then popped back. I recommend a middle ground on REPs (i.e. between Alpha and Bravo values) and a base increase to vehicle HP to make up for the huge damage changes related to proficiency. There has to be SOMETHING PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Eko Sol Strange Playings 491	Posted - 2014.06.24 21:24:00 - [7] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Alright. So, at first, I thought it was going to be awesome watching all of the nerfs on vehicles b/c it would make AV so much easier. Now it is so unbelievably easy NO ONE IS USING VEHICLES. And the few that do get completely annihilated. The fact that there are no vehicles in ambush not only blows my mind but is completely indicative of how bad players are and that CCP has to make changes so that bad players can still be bad players BUT without vehicles. Vehicle Rep nerf = fine but unnecessary -Good players didn't need that much reps and bad players died anyway with triple rep maddy's I actually like the changes to RE's. nothing like doing almost 10k Effective Damage with only 3 Proto RE's MLT Racials = unnecessary but sure why not What is even more hilarious is that vehicles are easy to destroy even with swarms yet people aren't pulling out AV in Domination. Anyway, those are my points. Glad to see that scouts can shoot an entire shot out of their shotgun still and be completely invisible for that first shot. It's crazy isn't it, most of my matches I run a forge with the intent to run tanks down. They might call out a MLT tank or two, even a STD tank every now and again. But you forge those down like they are nothing and they don't want to play anymore. Very sad:( Or, they drive into the redline just to kill your LAV, only to be dropped by the redline, like one particular tanker the other day. Twice he did that, and once he jumped out with intent to kill me but nope, redline killed him. Must have been pretty butthurt over the 3 other tanks I killed prior to those 2 Yep it is crazy imo. Actually, had one match earlier where my corp mate and I were targeted by over 5 vehicles at a time and we did fairly well holding them off. Sadly, BBerries didn't get the hack while so many were focused on us. We used to run LAV's where we both would jump out and destroy tanks. Unfortunately, most tanks that are in the game stay in the red line now. And another unfortunate thing is this team killing phenom thing where people on our team run around trying to kill our LAV's with us in it. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Eko Sol Strange Playings 491	Posted - 2014.06.24 21:31:00 - [8] - Quote M1tch Rapp wrote: I don't know what game you guys are playing. I still see tank and DS spam in every match. LOL, Had one game earlier today where it was very bad. Other than that, it is just tanks in the red or nothing. Occasional LAV. Sometimes South and I take out early spam and just don't see it come back. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Eko Sol Strange Playings 491	Posted - 2014.06.24 22:21:00 - [9] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff. How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance? The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry. BAMM, Dev owns OP. I will tell you why people don't use tanks like they used to, it's because they are no longer FOTM. I still see plenty of Tankers playing and roling around, the only difference is if you have dedicated AV on the other side that AV does it's job effectively. The large blaster, fired in small bursts in more than accurate enough to deal with the majority of infantry enemies at about 35m and the small blaster now works better than before. Railguns are now no longer the be all and end all of vehicle-vehicle fights and missile turrets are having a resurgence. Futhermore more tanks are actually attempting more 'unique' fits and we are seeing a larger number of Dropships (all varieties). AV is now no lomger a lost cause (a few tweaks and we are perfect) and does it's advertised job effectively. What more could you want? Ratatts reply was to another player and not myself. I never stated anything about rail nerfs being an issue. Another example of someone who just likes attention. Gabriel Ceja wrote: All the changes that were made were perfectly fine the reason why there is less tanks on the fields is because a lot of the fotm tankers are gone now that they can't run their glass cannons as efficiently as before and as for av it's pretty good right now forges may be just a little too powerful but all in all okay and the only tanks that get killed by solo av are the tanks that are still trying to run glass cannon fits A) Other players basically stated this B) Other players also believe AV isn't fine now and have stated as such Is there some unofficial rule where people read the OP then the DEV post and then a post on the last page and then reply? Why do people insist on only reading what they want to read? And no, the changes were not fine. They were done too quickly without gathering data. Only a moron buys a house without looking at what is inside and just predicts what it might look at. You look at it and sometimes even put a down payment to hold it longer. They made too many changes too quickly and people aren't adapting. To the other people. Good players are suffering as well. That being said, it looks like triple hardened Shield Tanks are where it is at. Those things are beasts right now. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Eko Sol Strange Playings 491	Posted - 2014.06.24 22:44:00 - [10] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: It's pretty much exactly in response to your post. You complained that tanks were underpowered (which they are not) Rattatai outlined what few chamges were made. Sounds like he owns you to me. Im hardly suffering, as an AV player, I hardly suffering as a Pilot either. The Dev's have months worth of data to look at, its not exactly like this has been a snap descision by Rattatai, they spent plenty of time in consultation with players, you can even see these threads in the archive subforum. I'm just going to chalk this up to you being an idiot. I never once said tanks were under powered. I stated, numerous times, that the changes to vehicles were too much too quickly. Someone else posted about rails and than Ratatti posted a reply. At some point you also inferred that AV is suffering. It isn't suffering stupid. It's thriving. Why would I say anything otherwise? I'm going to stop receiving notifications for this topic to avoid becoming dumber by spending more of my time on you. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...