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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Eko Sol
Strange Playings
484
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alright. So, at first, I thought it was going to be awesome watching all of the nerfs on vehicles b/c it would make AV so much easier. Now it is so unbelievably easy NO ONE IS USING VEHICLES. And the few that do get completely annihilated.
The fact that there are no vehicles in ambush not only blows my mind but is completely indicative of how bad players are and that CCP has to make changes so that bad players can still be bad players BUT without vehicles.
Vehicle Rep nerf = fine but unnecessary
-Good players didn't need that much reps and bad players died anyway with triple rep maddy's
I actually like the changes to RE's. nothing like doing almost 10k Effective Damage with only 3 Proto RE's
MLT Racials = unnecessary but sure why not
What is even more hilarious is that vehicles are easy to destroy even with swarms yet people aren't pulling out AV in Domination.
Anyway, those are my points.
Glad to see that scouts can shoot an entire shot out of their shotgun still and be completely invisible for that first shot.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Vicious Minotaur
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
975
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
I remember when CCP heeded warnings against doing twofold fixes.
CCP:
Fixed a bug making Forges and Swarms less effective than they should be
Nerfed vehicle reppers
And maybe something else, can't recall and don't feel like looking it up, so...
Thanks to that twofold (threefold? fourfold?) "fix," things are not well in vehicle/AV balance. That's what happens when you do too many things at once.
You'd have thought they had learned by now.
I am a minotaur.
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Eko Sol
Strange Playings
486
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:I remember when CCP heeded warnings against doing twofold fixes.
CCP:
Fixed a bug making Forges and Swarms less effective than they should be
Nerfed vehicle reppers
And maybe something else, can't recall and don't feel like looking it up, so...
Thanks to that twofold (threefold? fourfold?) "fix," things are not well in vehicle/AV balance. That's what happens when you do too many things at once.
You'd have thought they had learned by now.
All they had to do was increase efficacy for swarms against Incubus. The RE thing is actually good. Now you have to use some CPU and PG in order to get higher level RE's to use against tanks. AV nades are about right. I honestly can't see why or how anything after that made any sense.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Khulmach
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
People are using Lavs now man.Get with it
Now you see me,now you die(Nova knife slash)
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
11055
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Better for us to be UP, even though we certainly are not, and peeps to begrudgingly admit tankers have it rough instead of be hyper OP.
BRING BACK pre 1.6 HAV and modules!
" Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well."
-Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
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Eko Sol
Strange Playings
487
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Better for us to be UP, even though we certainly are not, and peeps to begrudgingly admit tankers have it rough instead of be hyper OP.
BRING BACK pre 1.6 HAV and modules!
EXACTLY!!!! If they are going to put AV back to 1.6 then they should have the same vehicles and module slots available.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
14781
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Posted - 2014.06.23 22:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:
Nerfed vehicle reppers
All they had to do was increase efficacy for swarms against Incubus.
Not really, because then you'd still have the triple rep Madrugars.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Polka will never die.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
11056
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Posted - 2014.06.23 22:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Eko Sol wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:
Nerfed vehicle reppers
All they had to do was increase efficacy for swarms against Incubus. Not really, because then you'd still have the triple rep Madrugars.
And as a Tanker even I hate those.
" Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well."
-Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
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Atiim
NoGameNoLife
9775
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Posted - 2014.06.23 23:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Alright. So, at first, I thought it was going to be awesome watching all of the nerfs on vehicles b/c it would make AV so much easier. Now it is so unbelievably easy NO ONE IS USING VEHICLES. And the few that do get completely annihilated.
Or perhaps the majority of players have stopped spamming them because they're bad pilots who can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag now that Swarm Launchers actually do something to them.
That's most likely the case.
I want SLAVs, not SLAVEs.
"Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..."
-HAND
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Atiim
NoGameNoLife
9775
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Posted - 2014.06.23 23:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:
All they had to do was increase efficacy for swarms against Incubus. The RE thing is actually good. Now you have to use some CPU and PG in order to get higher level RE's to use against tanks. AV nades are about right. I honestly can't see why or how anything after that made any sense.
The only other changes they made to AV was buffing the Plasma Cannon and fixing the glitch where Proficiency Skills were not applying against vehicles.
I think fixing glitches makes sense.
I want SLAVs, not SLAVEs.
"Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..."
-HAND
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Michael Arck
4844
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Posted - 2014.06.23 23:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
LOL! Yea, crazy isn't it? But this sort of thing has been going on for some time. Oh well, I'm more interested in what the next excuse will be for ambush. I know one is coming. Probably removing prototype suits from the game mode.
People are changing the game to get an edge. Not their game though, the game itself.
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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DarthJT5
12th Shadow Legion
63
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Posted - 2014.06.23 23:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
ummm.... you obviously haven't faced any good tankers if all of them are too easy... i dont lose very often to ONE AV guy. Only time that happens is when im derpin around trying to ram an RE guy
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Up and coming Python pilot.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3305
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Posted - 2014.06.24 00:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
First off if you are not seeing vehicles in ambush then you are probs playing the 50 clone variant which has vehicles banned all together. Secondly most of the so called "tankers" where scrubs who relied on the tripple repping madrugar to just run over AV while they manically laughed at them. |
Eko Sol
Strange Playings
487
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Posted - 2014.06.24 00:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Eko Sol wrote:
All they had to do was increase efficacy for swarms against Incubus. The RE thing is actually good. Now you have to use some CPU and PG in order to get higher level RE's to use against tanks. AV nades are about right. I honestly can't see why or how anything after that made any sense.
The only other changes they made to AV was buffing the Plasma Cannon and fixing the glitch where Proficiency Skills were not applying against vehicles. I think fixing glitches makes sense.
Ok, that is 100% agreeable. I am very happy they fixed glitches. Plasma Cannon is weird because the description doesn't actually say it is AV. It is actually described as CQC weapon. That being said, I like the plasma Cannon buffs.
Rebuttle or input on other statements:
1) Triple rep maddy's die really easily to RE's and AV nades and since that is one of the primary methods I beat those tankers I never had a problem with them.
2) @Atiim, I think vehicles were over nerfed. I am not against a little nerf but I think things were a bit overnerfed between Hotfix A and B. I think they should have taken smaller steps is all. I get that some bad players were getting away with seeming skilled when they weren't but even skilled vehicle users are suffering a little to my Proto Swarms.
3) The only tanks that don't get RE'd by me are tanks that keep moving and go into the red to get rid of the RE I put on them and then get back into the game. That's it. Those are the only ones. I will ALWAYS get ONE RE on every tank. It's getting the 2nd and 3rd that is the pain. Triple Rep Maddy's only need 1 on the weak spot and I use AV nades to get rid of their shields. That being said, really good tankers are very difficult to RE.
4) @Arck, you get it.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Atiim
NoGameNoLife
9775
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Posted - 2014.06.24 00:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:
2) @Atiim, I think vehicles were over nerfed. I am not against a little nerf but I think things were a bit overnerfed between Hotfix A and B. I think they should have taken smaller steps is all. I get that some bad players were getting away with seeming skilled when they weren't but even skilled vehicle users are suffering a little to my Proto Swarms.
How were they overnerfed?
Besides bug-fixes, the only thing that was nerfed was the HP/s on Armor Repairers, which was indeed warranted. I think your starting to see the effects of what happens when bad players don't have gear to carry them.
I want SLAVs, not SLAVEs.
"Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..."
-HAND
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Takahashi Kashuken
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2014.06.24 00:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Eko Sol wrote:
2) @Atiim, I think vehicles were over nerfed. I am not against a little nerf but I think things were a bit overnerfed between Hotfix A and B. I think they should have taken smaller steps is all. I get that some bad players were getting away with seeming skilled when they weren't but even skilled vehicle users are suffering a little to my Proto Swarms.
How were they overnerfed? Besides bug-fixes, the only thing that was nerfed was the HP/s on Armor Repairers, which was indeed warranted. I think your starting to see the effects of what happens when bad players don't have gear to carry them.
Only thing that was nerfed - lolno
Damage mods - nerfed
Railgun damage - nerfed
Railgun refire time - nerfed
Railgun Overheat limit - nerfed
Armor reps - nerfed
Blaster accuracy - nerfed
Small blaster accuracy - nerfed |
Eko Sol
Strange Playings
487
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Posted - 2014.06.24 00:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Eko Sol wrote:
2) @Atiim, I think vehicles were over nerfed. I am not against a little nerf but I think things were a bit overnerfed between Hotfix A and B. I think they should have taken smaller steps is all. I get that some bad players were getting away with seeming skilled when they weren't but even skilled vehicle users are suffering a little to my Proto Swarms.
How were they overnerfed? Besides bug-fixes, the only thing that was nerfed was the HP/s on Armor Repairers, which was indeed warranted. I think your starting to see the effects of what happens when bad players don't have gear to carry them.
I stand by bugs should have been fixed in Bravo. I think they should have nerfed reps in Charlie. One at a time. All your other criticism is valid.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3733
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Posted - 2014.06.24 01:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Takahashi Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote:Eko Sol wrote:
2) @Atiim, I think vehicles were over nerfed. I am not against a little nerf but I think things were a bit overnerfed between Hotfix A and B. I think they should have taken smaller steps is all. I get that some bad players were getting away with seeming skilled when they weren't but even skilled vehicle users are suffering a little to my Proto Swarms.
How were they overnerfed? Besides bug-fixes, the only thing that was nerfed was the HP/s on Armor Repairers, which was indeed warranted. I think your starting to see the effects of what happens when bad players don't have gear to carry them. Only thing that was nerfed - lolno Damage mods - nerfed Railgun damage - nerfed Railgun refire time - nerfed Railgun Overheat limit - nerfed Armor reps - nerfed Blaster accuracy - nerfed Small blaster accuracy - nerfed
Not often I agree with Takahiro, but here's another like for you.
CCP Rattati Best Dev
AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
CalLogi, you're next!
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
3092
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Posted - 2014.06.24 01:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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DarthJT5
12th Shadow Legion
67
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Posted - 2014.06.24 01:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
i honestly dont see much of a change.
on a side note, when does the discussion for charlie begin?
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Up and coming Python pilot.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Eko Sol
Strange Playings
488
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Posted - 2014.06.24 01:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
Here is the thing. It used to take 2 RE's on the weak spot of a triple Rep Maddy and 1 proto AV nade. With the AV nade buff from Alpha I can take out a triple rep Maddy with one single 1500hp RE on the weak spot of a maddy when the shields are down (i.e. 2 AV nades).
PLC Buff doesn't matter at all.
The two bug fixes increased total AV DPS quite a lot. There should have been an eval time before nerfing reps. now, because of reps. There are vehicles that don't leave the red line.
I like the changes to RE's to an extent. I think it should take more CPU and PG to effectively take out tanks. I don't like the delay but, tbh, I don't think it is working and haven't noticed it at all.
Proto swarms used to do a little over 1k damage against an incubus before Bravo. now it does about double. That is a huge increase in damage AND then rep is nerfed and now with proficiency it is even more damage total. This is a huge change. Doing both at the same time is quite drastic. Now imagine a bunch of damage mods on the swarms.
Too much nerfing and buffing at once. That is my only complaint. Because of this, the adaptive response from the player base is too slow moving and it is showing on the battlefield. The result is a serious decrease in vehicles on the field. Balance shouldn't mean that people don't use them anymore. Balance should mean that people have to be better than before in order to be equally as effective BUT still can do SOMETHING on the battlefield. Virtually Zero vehicles doesn't mean there is balance. The only tanks I have seen were the ones sitting in the red line or a couple of rare ones that popped out with Nitro turned on and then popped back.
I recommend a middle ground on REPs (i.e. between Alpha and Bravo values) and a base increase to vehicle HP to make up for the huge damage changes related to proficiency.
There has to be SOMETHING
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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pyramidhead 420
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
551
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
the power button is the only way to balance this turd |
Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
Psychotic Alliance
1380
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
Because you needed reps based on a bug. You didn't see if fixing the bug would help things. As it stands, vehicles don't leave the redline if there even called in at all, and now rails can't even compete with missiles or blasters because they die before they can do enough damage. Lucky for me, I have a 30m skill point infantry character to wait out this vehicle mess, but its another case of turning too many knobs at onc e.
What happened to small changes to test balance?
Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
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Lynn Beck
NoGameNoLife
1900
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
I have no qualms with how they nerfed Railguns. RoF was a necessary removal because ADS pilots regardless of fitting were 2 shotted faster than the average human reaction time.
Dmg was dropped because, even with a RoF nerf, they'd still be able to 1 shot Pythons.
Heat buildup is the only one i think shoul have been left, although firing 6/9 bullets in one go was a bit ubsurd.
Now, rails are more for ranged suppression and/or AVing instead of a CQC anti-material shotgun.
Blasters are something a railgunner has to fear, as whn it comes into CQC, that railgunner had better **** himself.
General John Ripper
-HAM(Yum)
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Non-Association Foster Care Office
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
881
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Buff plates
Dust/Eve transfers
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1921
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
I think you nailed the rail and damage mod nerf right on the head. Rails and damage mods are right where they need to be now.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
--
"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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iKILLu osborne
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
37
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
bah i popped 14 tanks today with my rail, 6 missile, 3 blaster,5 rail.
Tanks are where they need to be, all you need is a armor hardener and fuel injector ( and a bit of know-how)
hey you liar! i didn't sneak up on you, i was following you for 5 minutes , waiting for you to hack that cru for a camp
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Atiim
NoGameNoLife
9779
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:
I stand by bugs should have been fixed in Bravo. I think they should have nerfed reps in Charlie. One at a time. All your other criticism is valid.
While that does seem good in theory, even if the proficiency change made AV weapons effective against Triple 'Rep' Madrugars, the HP/s would still need to be nerfed in the sense that they were making Shield Tanks (the ones that are supposed to have high regen, but with lower buffer) obsolete.
Not to mention that it the Triple 'Rep' Madrugar would still be able to out-DPS 80GJ Blasters, which are also AV weapons.
I want SLAVs, not SLAVEs.
"Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..."
-HAND
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
897
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Posted - 2014.06.24 04:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
In my opinion the tank/AV balance is about right, psychologically though it is disheartening to people who thought pulling out a tank was a low risk way to victory. Good tankers with good builds can still do well.
The more valid tanker issue seems to be lack of choice and variety and getting benefit from their investment. I don't know how to fix any of that without messing up what we have now.
Because, that's why.
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Hawkin P
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
426
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Posted - 2014.06.24 14:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
Large Blaster was never suppose to be anti-infantry? Then what was Large Missile, Large Rail Gun? Both are horrible at killing infantry. If you are try to make tanks only useful at killing each other it's almost like taking tanks out of the game. Because then tanks become irrelevant. You only need them if the other side has them. Also why would you think increasing small blaster dispersion was a buff?
However I don't know what the OP is talking about when he says no one is using vehicles anymore, I think he has only been playing ambush where most tankers/ADS won't play the game because you can't choose between OMS and ambush, and no one wants to have only a 50% chance of being able to use their main role. Vehicles are everywhere in Dom & Skirmish, and I like where infantry AV is ATM. I think it's well balanced. I Play both tanker and infantry, I don't find AV overpowered at all. I like the nerf to rail tanks. Large missiles need some serious work.
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