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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2861	Posted - 2014.06.19 07:32:00 - [1] - Quote Just throwing this out there. So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis. Instead of changing anything about weapons or modules, what would be wrong about just reducing PG/CPU on militia vehicles a bit. It won't hurt the new players who want to try vehicles like an ISK increase would but makes those interested have to make an SP investment to become dedicated. Your thoughts? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Haerr Legio DXIV 854	Posted - 2014.06.19 07:45:00 - [2] - Quote How about you change the fitting skills instead? A change to them would only hit the high level players and not people trying out vehicles.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3738	Posted - 2014.06.19 08:00:00 - [3] - Quote With mlt infantry suits it's still possible to fit prototype modules and items, it's just insnaely hard because of the limited fitting space you have to work with even with your electronics and engineering skills maxed. But because vehicles only have standard and mlt, for now a fitting space decrease would probably work well. The only other option I see would be to increase fitting space on standard vehicles, while increasing fitting costs of vehicle mods at advanced and proto. While this is probably a better solution, it's not a simple task at all and would require way more work than what you're proposing. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15535	Posted - 2014.06.19 08:10:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Just throwing this out there. So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis. Instead of changing anything about weapons or modules, what would be wrong about just reducing PG/CPU on militia vehicles a bit. It won't hurt the new players who want to try vehicles like an ISK increase would but makes those interested have to make an SP investment to become dedicated. Your thoughts? I think slots should match (while I would like to see the mlt ones buffed; nerfing military grade ones is an option as well) the combine this with a militia fitting reduction to the point that to have all slots full requires significant investment in both skills and fitting modules to make militia grade vehicles lugging around prototype level gear. Similar to our current militia dropsuits. Also I cannot stress this enough but the flight controls for all three grades of Dropships need to be more closely unified. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
MINA Longstrike 895	Posted - 2014.06.19 08:10:00 - [5] - Quote Increase the isk cost on proto weapons Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10830	Posted - 2014.06.19 08:22:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Just throwing this out there. So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis. Instead of changing anything about weapons or modules, what would be wrong about just reducing PG/CPU on militia vehicles a bit. It won't hurt the new players who want to try vehicles like an ISK increase would but makes those interested have to make an SP investment to become dedicated. Your thoughts? I am unfamiliar with this issue. Players are making MLT Tanks too powerful? Through the use of Proto Type Modules on MLT Tanks? That is not the issue at all. Its that MLT tanks require little to no ISK, no SP investment, and can effectively negate massive amounts of SP investment into vehicles with MLT grade modules. This may not be such an Issue no due to your changes but I rarely find that MLT tanks are too powerful for hand held AV to tackle. The Issue I see with HAV is that players do not have to spend much SP in HAV skills at all to receive massive benefits. Emphasis in HAV command is placed on the hull itself, and now that modules have effectively had their tiering destroyed in favour of quicker cycle times ( the short term benefits of module far outweighing the long term negatives) even a low 1-3 Million SP toon can make themselves and game breaking menace on the battlefield. Because that Emphasis on power lies in the hull of the vehicle and the turret mounted, AV cannot effectively break down HAV's using their current damage models. In regards to balancing HAV against hand held AV I have always said needs to lie in changes to the HAV's themselves and or the skills associated with HAV Command. The easiest way I see how to do it is break down the current HAV's power into most SP sink skills meaning players have to skill into and build up their characters skills in their chosen vehicle role to achieve comparable Power gains. A Basic Swarm Launcher should be doing effective quantities of damage to MLT hulls which suffer from lesser PG and CPU values due to their lack of skill requirements, like wise they should do damage to STD hulls where the pilots have little to no skill investments. With more investment of SP into Tanking related skills the higher the tier of AV required to eliminate the tank. Currently much of the issue surrounding HAV power vs ISK cost lies in the lack of competitive modules in our line ups. Intially the meta was Hardeners with 40% (for armour) and 60% (for shield) resistances to damage. These were inevitably nerfed. Then the meta was Heavy Repair Units, these have now just been nerfed........ There is a trend here. The emphasis and power gains lies in the modules, not the skills associated with the modules, as they do in EVE, and as a result in most cases if I want to have peak ISK efficiency to power output ratios I stack only Standard Modules. Cheaper PG and CPU, same efficiency, cheaper ISK wise. Issue is not High tier modules on low tier hulls. You can barely fit a basic module or turret in each slot on a Madrugar, even with then high SP I have invested into fitting skills, its that low tier modules perform essentially the same way if not better than higher tier modules. "You are weak Ouryon....weakness serves not the Empire. I shall teach you strength." -Yurius of the Brutor to Ouryon
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10830	Posted - 2014.06.19 08:24:00 - [7] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Increase the isk cost on proto weapons No Malleus that is not the way to achieve a balanced out come. All it does in de-incentivise the use of high tiered modules on vehicles in favour of lower tiered ones that fundamentally function in the exact same way with the exact same efficiencies, creating yet another slew and meta of low cost vehicles with high power out puts for little to no SP investment. "You are weak Ouryon....weakness serves not the Empire. I shall teach you strength." -Yurius of the Brutor to Ouryon
Argetlam Thorson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 64	Posted - 2014.06.19 08:24:00 - [8] - Quote I honestly think MLT tanks should just be removed. It doesn't take much to get into a STD tank and MLT tanks are, quite frankly, OP against infantry. If I need to spec into and pull out a fit dedicated to removing you as a threat, then you should have to spec into it to be one. It would also make the ground vehicle skill requirements more like the air vehicle skill requirements. You'd have a militia transport vehicle, a std variant of that which is more multipurpose and can be used as a mobile gun(s) or tanked out transport, and then a purely attack vehicle which is expensive and needs at least some skill point investment....or just give us a 150k Militia ADS. Just my 2 ISK.
Thurak1 Psygod9 783	Posted - 2014.06.19 08:31:00 - [9] - Quote Make it so 1 AV can take out militia tanks. Not sure why this seems so mind boggling but 1 av player with advanced gear should be able to take out a militia tank. But CCP loves HAV these days making them cheaper than dropsuits FFS.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1345	Posted - 2014.06.19 09:18:00 - [10] - Quote Fill the small turret slots on militia vehicles with appropriate turrets. Bam, you just ate up pg/cpu Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.

Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3628	Posted - 2014.06.19 09:24:00 - [11] - Quote I would welcome any nerfs you can bring on MLT HAVs. I would also like the addition of higher tiered HAVs at some point; that would be amazing and allow for some more tweaks to lower tiered goods. (I want a missile Falchion!!). For what it's worth, though, I fitted two MLT hardeners and an MLT plate (or something akin to that) to my Sica yesterday. It's still OP. It's arguably more OP than it was before, in fact. MLT tanks (Sicas especially) need a good long looking at. Thurak1 wrote: Make it so 1 AV can take out militia tanks. Not sure why this seems so mind boggling but 1 av player with advanced gear should be able to take out a militia tank. But CCP loves HAV these days making them cheaper than dropsuits FFS. Priciest dropsuit I ever owned was 260k. Ran an ADV fit tank yesterday for 370k a pop. Apples =/= oranges. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 509	Posted - 2014.06.19 09:41:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Just throwing this out there. So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis. Instead of changing anything about weapons or modules, what would be wrong about just reducing PG/CPU on militia vehicles a bit. It won't hurt the new players who want to try vehicles like an ISK increase would but makes those interested have to make an SP investment to become dedicated. Your thoughts? To fully fit a militia tank, I have to invest in multiple skills, some on higher levels, to get all my modules at non-militia level, because otherwise they wouldn't fit at all. The issue lies in the scaling of tanks with skill point investments and how PG/CPU requirements sink. The same works for dropsuits, but it's more pronounced for tanks because they only have two tiers and the militia tier is already very powerful. If you just lower CPU/PG, you punish new tankers much more, because there's no valid reason to get a militia tank at low skill level if you can't even fit it. And shouldn't militia be the stuff that you use to either get a taste of something or to save money? Personally, I'd say the best idea is to remove most customizability from militia tanks. Give them irremovable modules that fit their racial playstyle, maybe with variants (Hardened Sica/Boosting Sica/etc.) if necessary, and only allow the turrets to be customized. This gives new players a sense of "Look at those options! And I can't actually change the fitting. Time to get a real tank!", while allowing experienced non-tankers to make a very specific call about shield/armor tank and turret type to react to a specific situation where a cheap tank is required for its turret and HP.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 932	Posted - 2014.06.19 10:56:00 - [13] - Quote The issue isn't at all what was outlined in your OP and is quite the opposite as True already said. The problem really lies with the fact there's hardly a difference between a 20 million SP tanker and a 0 SP tanker in terms of tanks competing. Fitting optimization means nothing when it doesn't effect what you can fit. It just means you'll squeeze another 200 eHP out or maybe 40 more reps. When vehicles were "rebalenced" all that happened is the people who were very very invested in vehicles got screwed over. Before 1.7 there was this thing called diversity in vehicles. Some of us did ridiculous things like 7K shield Vayus with two Charybdis' following it with remote shield boosters. Why? Because "lol an overpriced armor enforcer tank with seven thousand shields". A player with no SP couldn't do anything like this and cumulatively this was probably 40-50 million SP worth of skills in play just to make it all work while in good case, we'd absolutely devastate the enemy team with my tanker going 50/0 on a Skirmish and in others, we'd loose millions of ISK to crazy overpowered AV while still at least having fun. Whenever I get on my dedicated vehicle character, I actually get pretty upset sometimes about the all the changes in 1.7. I haven't had as much fun in a vehicle as I did back in the day. The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 365	Posted - 2014.06.19 11:08:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Just throwing this out there. So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis. Instead of changing anything about weapons or modules, what would be wrong about just reducing PG/CPU on militia vehicles a bit. It won't hurt the new players who want to try vehicles like an ISK increase would but makes those interested have to make an SP investment to become dedicated. Your thoughts? sounds good
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1886	Posted - 2014.06.19 14:30:00 - [15] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: I would welcome any nerfs you can bring on MLT HAVs. I would also like the addition of higher tiered HAVs at some point; that would be amazing and allow for some more tweaks to lower tiered goods. (I want a missile Falchion!!). For what it's worth, though, I fitted two MLT hardeners and an MLT plate (or something akin to that) to my Sica yesterday. It's still OP. It's arguably more OP than it was before, in fact. MLT tanks (Sicas especially) need a good long looking at. Thurak1 wrote: Make it so 1 AV can take out militia tanks. Not sure why this seems so mind boggling but 1 av player with advanced gear should be able to take out a militia tank. But CCP loves HAV these days making them cheaper than dropsuits FFS. Priciest dropsuit I ever owned was 260k. Ran an ADV fit tank yesterday for 370k a pop. Apples =/= oranges. +1 just for mentioning missile Falchion. I loved that thing with it's stupid movement penalty "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 1249	Posted - 2014.06.19 14:56:00 - [16] - Quote I can only assume that majority of chassis you are referring to are HAVs since the only time I see militia DS are for 1. Quick Transports or 2. Crash into an opposing DS to kill it. If you are finding militia DS are being fitted with proto, then by all means, cut down cpu/pg and that will quickly disappear. The big reason why you see so many cheap HAVs is because it is cheaper to pull out a militia tank than it is to pull out a fully proto built suit to counter it and you have a high risk in just a dropsuit. Militia HAV > Proto AV build. You are of course bringing some balance to that but it still has more balancing to go. Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ? True Logi. Flying DS from the start. @dustreports
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 357	Posted - 2014.06.19 15:15:00 - [17] - Quote remove the large turret that comes free on millita vehicles. this should remove quite a lot of millita tank spam. say about 50-60k isk for the millita hav hull. then the std price of millita turrets. this would greatly increase the price of mlt vehilces to where spamming is not viable and also a very slight reduction in ehp. proposed values for soma :1000 shield/3600 armour sica :2350 shield/1250 armour. removieng the free turret would add that slight bit of extra cost so the risk of using millita vehilces is larger and spamming is not as cheap. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 357	Posted - 2014.06.19 15:22:00 - [18] - Quote another thought. can we have vehicles put back to the way there were and functioned back in chromosome along with the modules while keeping av where it is and reintroduce marauder tanks and put prices back to where they were. (I had no problem paying 2.5mill isk for a fully fitted surya) quite liked for how powerful it was it was dam expensive and very hard to keep in play as the risk was extremely high but the reward was low (this is what it should be for tanks). *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 27	Posted - 2014.06.19 15:23:00 - [19] - Quote Why not, reducing the PG/CPU could be a good thing. However, I think that what make militia tanks interesting for the old players (i'm among them) is : - the number of modules, you only get one more module by using a standard tank over a militia one. I think you should get two, so people would consider them to be more effective. In order to do that, it could be interesting to remove one of the vehicle slot on each militia tank (low on the sica and high for the soma). For the moment, both are using 2 high and 2 slow which I find ridiculous as no militia dropsuit / LAV / dropship have the same versatility. - add default turrets like for the LP tanks, it would reduce in a way the PG/CPU allowed to the tanks, while showing to the newcomer the potential of a teamplay tank (which is simply awesome). Another point in favor of this is that militia dropship have them and it can be a real problem when you want to do a solo fit. - Like some people, I find that other vehicles are missing. I would like to test the Sagaris that is taking the dust in my hangar. Same thing for the logistic vehicles, it would be good to see them back again so not only the DPS of a tank would count anymore (it is less the case since yesterday, but still too present in my taste). But this has nothing to do with your first question. Dropship pilot
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2436	Posted - 2014.06.19 15:31:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Just throwing this out there. So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis. Instead of changing anything about weapons or modules, what would be wrong about just reducing PG/CPU on militia vehicles a bit. It won't hurt the new players who want to try vehicles like an ISK increase would but makes those interested have to make an SP investment to become dedicated. Your thoughts? Pretty much this Cross Atu wrote: Quote from a related thread on HAVs, same type of reasoning applies (also yes to WP for mCRUs) Cross Atu wrote: Considering the current, more slimmed down, development resources I find it vastly important that we get as much possible content and utility out the assets already generated for Dust 514. These other vehicles should most certainly be back in the game. In point of fact restoring their presence would improve the possibility of viable Vehicle vs Infantry balance. It is much harder to balance Proto AV vs STD Vehicles, the degrees are wrong. Right now militia AV is a poor joke while MLT vehicles are are viable and useful simply because there are more degrees within the power curve of AV than of Vehicles. Push MLT AV to be viable in the current meta and the power curve makes Proto AV brokenly OP. The lack of types of vehicle also forces each one into more roles, making balance harder and requires that mods define the power curve very heavily allowing for more "MLT stacking" causing issues with the 'risk v reward' and the value of SP investments. However with a restored vehicle field there are more 'knobs' to fiddle enabling more fine tuning and more diversity. Content, balance, and game play would all be served by including these vehicles once more (and yes, they would need a balance pass... like the entire AV vs Vehicle situation does already). 0.02 ISK Cross Yes you can scale and polish the MLT vehicles, and they likely do need some touch ups but there is a foundational flaw in trying to scale vehicles with so few types and levels of potency against AV with so many meta variations and so much verity in type. Picture trying to balance Scouts with only MLT + 1 on their progression curve vs Assaults with all the types etc that they have now... and then make all their weapons type specific as well TL;DR - Not opposed to the change suggested, however it's unlikely that this, or any other single fix, will bring things properly inline so long as the progression scale of vehicles remains so limited and compressed. 0.02 ISK Cross Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 593	Posted - 2014.06.19 15:45:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis. If the price-tag is your problem then the easiest solution would be to increase the module price while giving the hull a price discount. The resulting scenario: MLT mods on a MLT chassis: The same as ever. CPX mods on a MLT chassis: More expensive than before. MLT mods on a STD chassis: Cheaper than before. (Has to be more expensive than a MLT chassis, though.) CPX mods on a STD chassis: The same as ever. If your issue is that vets in MLT chassis are being more effective than you'd like them to be then I'd ask you why that is a problem. They are obviously less effective than vets in a STD chassis so that's not the issue. Remember that ISK is never a problem in Dust. Vets don't read what stuff costs in ISK. (If you wonder why that is, ask the person who gave everyone from beta ~100-300 mil ISK on release day.)
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 95	Posted - 2014.06.19 16:44:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Just throwing this out there. So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis. Instead of changing anything about weapons or modules, what would be wrong about just reducing PG/CPU on militia vehicles a bit. It won't hurt the new players who want to try vehicles like an ISK increase would but makes those interested have to make an SP investment to become dedicated. Your thoughts? bad idea casue if they are already skileld heavly for vehicals it will just nerf what militia vehicals with low skill or 0 skill pilots with militia mods can do against militia vehicals with proto pilots who would have higher pg and cpu anyway to fit adv/proto moduals onto militia or standard vehicals.. my idea is make proto vehical moduals even more expencive to compensate for the use on cheap/weaker vehical hulls and will force them to use standard or higher hulls (even more expencive) to not lose their isk investment Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone? No Mic and no time for "Squeekers" Nerf scout cloak+shotgun
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 95	Posted - 2014.06.19 16:48:00 - [23] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis. If the price-tag is your problem then the easiest solution would be to increase the module price while giving the hull a price discount. The resulting scenario: MLT mods on a MLT chassis: The same as ever. CPX mods on a MLT chassis: More expensive than before. MLT mods on a STD chassis: Cheaper than before. (Has to be more expensive than a MLT chassis, though.) CPX mods on a STD chassis: The same as ever. If your issue is that vets in MLT chassis are being more effective than you'd like them to be then I'd ask you why that is a problem. They are obviously less effective than vets in a STD chassis so that's not the issue. Remember that ISK is never a problem in Dust. Vets don't read what stuff costs in ISK. (If you wonder why that is, ask the person who gave everyone from beta ~100-300 mil ISK on release day.) didnt ccp remove isk from every ones wallets and corp wallets after it became a problem with people just spamming proto vehicals and proto suits cause they transfered billions of isk to their dust charaters? Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone? No Mic and no time for "Squeekers" Nerf scout cloak+shotgun
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation 577	Posted - 2014.06.19 17:28:00 - [24] - Quote IMO Reduce standard mods price. Increase advanced/proto mods price.
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14444	Posted - 2014.06.19 17:29:00 - [25] - Quote I've said this for a very long time now, the fix is INSANELY SIMPLE Force MLT vehicles to fit turrets. That's it. While you're at it, remove forced turrets from LP vehicles. This is backwards, and needs to be changed. Forcing MLT vehicles to fit turrets will drastically cut into the fits they can field, and if you don't want to fit turrets? Skill into the damn vehicle. I have no sympathy, it's not hard to skill into them, and if you want a one man killing machine, you should have to work at least the tiniest bit for it. A slight boost in price wouldn't hurt either.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2305	Posted - 2014.06.19 17:37:00 - [26] - Quote No, i fit all militia modules on my MLT tank and to make a decent fit you need all the pg/cpu of the tank, you don't even have enough resources for the little turrets. If they can fit higher level modules on MLT hull it's not a problem, they have spent SP on them and they deserve to be effective. It's the same with infantry, with the same suit, i'm 100% more effective than someone with less SP because of my passive skill. I've a tanker alt too, i hate to not be able to fit little turret for a few points. Strongly disagree PSN: ogamega I'm not a chef, i'm just a man who likes to cook.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 942	Posted - 2014.06.19 19:18:00 - [27] - Quote shaman oga wrote: No, i fit all militia modules on my MLT tank and to make a decent fit you need all the pg/cpu of the tank, you don't even have enough resources for the little turrets. If they can fit higher level modules on MLT hull it's not a problem, they have spent SP on them and they deserve to be effective. You shouldn't be able to fit a good militia fit as long as we have vehicle module tiercide. As I've explained before, modules are all just as effective short term. So your fit, which just the hull and modules are upwards of 4 times cheaper are just as effective and they really shouldn't be. There's hardly a reason to run better than standard except for plates, repairers and extenders because they're the only modules that are better apart from cooldown times. The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 271	Posted - 2014.06.19 20:05:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Just throwing this out there. So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis. Instead of changing anything about weapons or modules, what would be wrong about just reducing PG/CPU on militia vehicles a bit. It won't hurt the new players who want to try vehicles like an ISK increase would but makes those interested have to make an SP investment to become dedicated. Your thoughts? OK as long as milita bpo mods still fit.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1648	Posted - 2014.06.19 20:10:00 - [29] - Quote Add stock small MLT turrets to MLT vehicles. That should eat up fitting space and annoy them with blueberries in their vehicles. While you're at it, could you please remove small turrets from the FW tanks? It really reduces their usefulness.
Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect 576	Posted - 2014.06.19 20:14:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Just throwing this out there. So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis. Instead of changing anything about weapons or modules, what would be wrong about just reducing PG/CPU on militia vehicles a bit. It won't hurt the new players who want to try vehicles like an ISK increase would but makes those interested have to make an SP investment to become dedicated. Your thoughts? I said already, but it always turns on deaf ears as everything, make the militia vehicles have permanent small turrets like LP store ones, problem solved. RIP DUST. You died prematurely: December 2011 to 2nd May 2014



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