How about you change the fitting skills instead? A change to them would only hit the high level players and not people trying out vehicles.

Yet fitting **** on vehicles is hard enough as it currently is

I don't know if you are being sarcastic but I have Blaster fitting efficiency to 5, and Small Rails Efficiency to 3.

I can barely fit one basic module in each slot on an HAV.

You cannot say fitting diversity exists when you are not even attempting to fit a module in every slot.

wat?

Just throwing this out there. So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis.

Instead of changing anything about weapons or modules, what would be wrong about just reducing PG/CPU on militia vehicles a bit.

It won't hurt the new players who want to try vehicles like an ISK increase would but makes those interested have to make an SP investment to become dedicated.

Your thoughts?

The issue isn't at all what was outlined in your OP and is quite the opposite as True already said. The problem really lies with the fact there's hardly a difference between a 20 million SP tanker and a 0 SP tanker in terms of tanks competing.

Fitting optimization means nothing when it doesn't effect what you can fit. It just means you'll squeeze another 200 eHP out or maybe 40 more reps. When vehicles were "rebalenced" all that happened is the people who were very very invested in vehicles got screwed over.

Before 1.7 there was this thing called diversity in vehicles. Some of us did ridiculous things like 7K shield Vayus with two Charybdis' following it with remote shield boosters. Why? Because "lol an overpriced armor enforcer tank with seven thousand shields". A player with no SP couldn't do anything like this and cumulatively this was probably 40-50 million SP worth of skills in play just to make it all work. In a good game, we'd absolutely devastate the enemy team with my tanker going 50/0 on a Skirmish and in others, we'd loose millions of ISK to crazy overpowered AV while still at least having fun.

Whenever I get on my dedicated vehicle character, I actually get pretty upset sometimes about the all the changes in 1.7 still. I haven't had as much fun in a vehicle as I did back in the day.

As an addition:
You see similar things in infantry that do you with vehicles. For the longest time, you see people in heavy suits with light weapons. Less so as the HMG is god mode now but it happens none the less. It stems from the "I need to win at least one fight" mentality which is exactly what happens in vehicles. People are fitting militia tanks for the purpose of killing one tank and recalling and everything they did in 1.7 just fed this mentality. Their militia damage modifier works just as well as a complex damage modifier and it's not like they'll need it after they three hit that 450K ISK tank, they're just going to hop out and recall right after.

Prettymuch this. 1.7 killed diversity and screwed people who had specced heavily into vehicles as you could get by just fine (and for the most part still do) with 0 SP investments.

-snip-

You shouldn't be able to fit a good militia fit as long as we have vehicle module tiercide. As I've explained before, modules are all just as effective short term. So your fit, which just the hull and modules are upwards of 4 times cheaper are just as effective and they really shouldn't be.

There's hardly a reason to run better than standard except for plates, repairers and extenders because they're the only modules that are better apart from cooldown times.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. His pre-1.7 fit was very different to mine. I would run:
180 Poly
2 Carapace hardeners
Heavy efficient armor repairer
Scattered Neutron blaster

For the most part there wasn't a one fit to rule them all like we have now.

Just throwing this out there. So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis.

Instead of changing anything about weapons or modules, what would be wrong about just reducing PG/CPU on militia vehicles a bit.

It won't hurt the new players who want to try vehicles like an ISK increase would but makes those interested have to make an SP investment to become dedicated.

Your thoughts?

No, this will only hurt those that ARE trying to fit into ANTI-tank roles.

Instead increase CPU-PG requirements of proto modules and increase proto vehicle's CPU-PG baselines.

This will induce players to use armor to counter armor, and mid level invested players better by enticing them with mixed proto fittings.

Why when tankers can barely fit a single standard module in each of their slots? That doesn't make sense.

Fill the small turret slots on militia vehicles with appropriate turrets. Bam, you just ate up pg/cpu

?

sipping and nibbling much..lol

by mixed proto, I meant proto tank with mixed modules.

I've said this for a very long time now, the fix is INSANELY SIMPLE

Force MLT vehicles to fit turrets.

That's it.

While you're at it, remove forced turrets from LP vehicles. This is backwards, and needs to be changed.

Forcing MLT vehicles to fit turrets will drastically cut into the fits they can field, and if you don't want to fit turrets? Skill into the damn vehicle. I have no sympathy, it's not hard to skill into them, and if you want a one man killing machine, you should have to work at least the tiniest bit for it.

A slight boost in price wouldn't hurt either.

This

Just throwing this out there. So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis.

Instead of changing anything about weapons or modules, what would be wrong about just reducing PG/CPU on militia vehicles a bit.

It won't hurt the new players who want to try vehicles like an ISK increase would but makes those interested have to make an SP investment to become dedicated.

Your thoughts?

After playing with a proto forge, prof 2, and 3 enhanced damage mods, I SAY STOP. Militia tanks pose NO problem for a lone forge gunner. Those with skills in tanks that choose to cheapen their tanks (a very small decrease between hulls and a single slot decrease) are still easy pickins.

So I ask you, please stop nerfing tanks. You have already made the blaster nearly useless on the maddie (via severe armor rep nerf), the rail gun is still king, and the gunnlogi is way up.

But all in all, gunnlogis are STILL easy pickings to AV (plasma cannons murder) and the maddie is a joke to my forge gun. SO PLEASE, just stop already. Evaluate what you have done (which mostly isn't positive) before you go nerfing something that is already far beyond where you wanted things to be.

Edit: Or I might say that it's just right, as from the AV side, Tanks FEAR AV far more than usual. I heard tale that ADV swarms were being trouble (what bugs did you fix exactly)

How about you change the fitting skills instead? A change to them would only hit the high level players and not people trying out vehicles.

Militia tanks pose NO problem for a lone forge gunner.

I am unfamiliar with this issue.

In fact I find it just he opposite. I can't even fit low tier modules to upper tier tanks.......

Players are making MLT Tanks too powerful? Through the use of Proto Type Modules on MLT Tanks?

That is not the issue at all.

Its that MLT tanks require little to no ISK, no SP investment, and can effectively negate massive amounts of SP investment into vehicles with MLT grade modules.

This may not be such an Issue no due to your changes but I rarely find that MLT tanks are too powerful for hand held AV to tackle.

The Issue I see with HAV is that players do not have to spend much SP in HAV skills at all to receive massive benefits. Emphasis in HAV command is placed on the hull itself, and now that modules have effectively had their tiering destroyed in favour of quicker cycle times ( the short term benefits of module far outweighing the long term negatives) even a low 1-3 Million SP toon can make themselves and game breaking menace on the battlefield.

Because that Emphasis on power lies in the hull of the vehicle and the turret mounted, AV cannot effectively break down HAV's using their current damage models.

In regards to balancing HAV against hand held AV I have always said needs to lie in changes to the HAV's themselves and or the skills associated with HAV Command.

The easiest way I see how to do it is break down the current HAV's power into most SP sink skills meaning players have to skill into and build up their characters skills in their chosen vehicle role to achieve comparable Power gains.

A Basic Swarm Launcher should be doing effective quantities of damage to MLT hulls which suffer from lesser PG and CPU values due to their lack of skill requirements, like wise they should do damage to STD hulls where the pilots have little to no skill investments. With more investment of SP into Tanking related skills the higher the tier of AV required to eliminate the tank.

Currently much of the issue surrounding HAV power vs ISK cost lies in the lack of competitive modules in our line ups. Intially the meta was Hardeners with 40% (for armour) and 60% (for shield) resistances to damage. These were inevitably nerfed.
Then the meta was Heavy Repair Units, these have now just been nerfed........

There is a trend here. The emphasis and power gains lies in the modules, not the skills associated with the modules, as they do in EVE, and as a result in most cases if I want to have peak ISK efficiency to power output ratios I stack only Standard Modules.

Cheaper PG and CPU, same efficiency, cheaper ISK wise.

Issue is not High tier modules on low tier hulls. You can barely fit a basic module or turret in each slot on a Madrugar, even with then high SP I have invested into fitting skills, its that low tier modules perform essentially the same way if not better than higher tier modules.

Just throwing this out there. So we have a problem with high level players creating too powerful, too cheap, vehicle fits using proto modules on militia chassis.

Instead of changing anything about weapons or modules, what would be wrong about just reducing PG/CPU on militia vehicles a bit.

It won't hurt the new players who want to try vehicles like an ISK increase would but makes those interested have to make an SP investment to become dedicated.

Your thoughts?