DUST Search - [Solve] Newbro Scout vs Proto Heavy

Crimson ShieId wrote:

Does this heavy have armor reps, or just stacked plates? I'd assume the latter due to the health, but I don't run a Gallente heavy, so I'm not sure what they're capable of...

I'd say it would depend on the map. An open map means the heavy would likely win every time, but a map like Ashland... With either weapon, the scout simply needs positioning and patience. Flanking and possibly fluxing his target first before moving in to chip away at the target's health before running away again. This would be easiest with a shotgun, even the basic variant does, I believe, well over a hundred damage more than the basic Nova Knives. If the heavy doesn't have armor reps, it's as simple as repeating the above until the scout can finally get those last strikes in... not that I'd ever recommend a basic scout play fair against a proto heavy. Now, if that Min scout had Lv5 in his suit's operation and Lv5 in Nova Knife Proficiency... it would be a more even match up, but otherwise, without cloaking or RE's, chipping away at the heavy's health bar would work just as often as it would fail. It's like fighting a boss in Dark Souls. The boss can make mistakes right and left and still survive, but if you make one mistake, you're dead.

On another note though, this makes me want custom games. I want to put a squad of heavies against a squad of scouts. Or just 1v1 duels.

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Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1855	Posted - 2014.06.15 14:49:00 - [1] - Quote Given * Newbro Scout: Scout g-1, 110 shields / 190 Armor, Standard Shotgun or Standard Knives. * Proto Heavy: Sentinel gk.0, 560 Shields / 1100 Armor, Boundless HMG. Restriction * Newbro Scout must not use Remote Explosives. * Proto Heavy must "mid-air pirouette" when first hit. Solve * Newbro Scout has managed to flank a lone Proto Heavy; by what steps can Newbro Scout defeat this mark? Bonus Question * Reversing roles, what specific difficulties do Newbro Heavies face when firing upon Proto Scouts? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
BLAAAASTER Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 107	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:00:00 - [2] - Quote So the weakest suit against the strongest suit? Well use a combat rifle and stay ahead of the heavies turn , jump over him as needed and the weakest suit can win. Otherwise run away and shoot from afar wait till other players roll up and go for the finish. Heavies are pretty easy to kill if you are smarter. Bonus question Panic pray and spray for the win. Unless of course the scout has snuck up behind the heavy unoticed with a shotgun then the heavy has no chance to even turn around to meet his killer. Thump thump dead
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3345	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:02:00 - [3] - Quote RE+cloak+ACR+ProtoScoot+plates=newberry heavy quits dust/quits being heavy. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1857	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:05:00 - [4] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: RE+cloak+ACR+ProtoScoot+plates=newberry heavy quits dust/quits being heavy. Play by the rules or do not play ... * Newbro Scout cannot fit a cloak. * Newbro Scout must use Shotgun or Knives * Newbro Scout must not use REs. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3345	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:08:00 - [5] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: RE+cloak+ACR+ProtoScoot+plates=newberry heavy quits dust/quits being heavy. Play by the rules or do not play ... * Newbro Scout cannot fit a cloak. * Newbro Scout must use Shotgun or Knives * Newbro Scout must not use REs. I skipped right to the bonus(just like in real life) It's why my car never gets clean at the car wash...just gets hot air in it. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1857	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:13:00 - [6] - Quote BLAAAASTER wrote: Well use a combat rifle and stay ahead of the heavies turn , jump over him as needed and the weakest suit can win. We must play by the rules ... * Newbro Scout must engage using a Standard Shotgun or Nova Knives * Proto Heavy must execute the "mid-air pirouette" maneuver when 1st hit Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
BLAAAASTER Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 108	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:23:00 - [7] - Quote OK this thread is dumb then. The shotgun will win most of the time if the guy can hop and sneak. Thread closed/
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 471	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:24:00 - [8] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: RE+cloak+ACR+ProtoScoot+plates=newberry heavy quits dust/quits being heavy. Play by the rules or do not play ... * Newbro Scout cannot fit a cloak. * Newbro Scout must use Shotgun or Knives * Newbro Scout must not use REs. In other words, you're arbitrarily making life more difficult than is necessary. Newbro Scout sees Proto squad, quits battle and finds new one. Victory!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1859	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:28:00 - [9] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Newbro Scout sees Proto squad, quits battle and finds new one. Victory! Good eye! A+ 100% - Valid Solution 110% - Valid Solution (Bonus A) Why skip Bonus B? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3911	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:31:00 - [10] - Quote Newbro Scout must Master Jump+Strafe. He must also know his DPS maths and opt for a proper weapon to accommodate his play style or ability. Newbro Heavy must know the limitations of his ammo supply and overheat limitations when using the 'spray and pray' technique against a stealthy veteran. He must also know how to work within the movement cap speed to track targets in CQC through the insane amount of muzzle fire of a HMG. Know your weapon's range. Know your suit's limitations. Know your enemy's weapons. Know their dropsuit's limitations. Play your given advantages. PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1859	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:43:00 - [11] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Newbro Scout must Master Jump+Strafe. Assuming our Newbro Scout is using Shotgun or Knives, this tactic will be consistently defeated by Proto Heavy's Jump+Pirouette+Backpedal. PS: If you are advocating for range improvements to Knives and Shotguns, I will support you in your quest :-) Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Schecter 666 52	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:44:00 - [12] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Given * Newbro Scout (g-1, 110 / 190 HP) w/ Standard Shotgun. * Proto Heavy (gk.0, 560 / 1100 HP) w/ Boundless HMG. Restriction * Newbro Scout must not use Remote Explosives. * Proto Heavy must use "mid-air pirouette" when first hit. Solve * Newbro Scout has managed to flank lone Proto Heavy; by what steps can Newbro Scout defeat this mark? Bonus One * Rework above scenario using Newbro Scout m-1 (120 / 85 HP) w/ Standard Nova Knives. Bonus Two * Reversing roles, what specific difficulties do Newbro Heavies face when engaging Proto Scouts? Just shoot them in the back, I use a 200hp shotgun guy and taking on heavies is no problem, just shoot them in the back! The Struggle...is tolerating DUST for even 1 match without flushing your own foot down the toilet in a fit of rage.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14523	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:56:00 - [13] - Quote Schecter 666 wrote: Just shoot them in the back, I use a 200hp shotgun guy and taking on heavies is no problem, just shoot them in the back! It will take four shots to accomplish this - taking several seconds. In that time, said heavy can turn around and shoot in the general direction of the newbro scout. Newbro scout dies immediately. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1977	Posted - 2014.06.15 16:15:00 - [14] - Quote I've been playing heavies since the day they existed, back when we had base 100 shields and 600 armor... As a scout these days, you'll give me trouble if you remember what you can do that I can't Use your better sensors. I can't detect you until I literally see you with my eyes. You know ahead of time where I'm facing. Never charge in unless you see my back. Stay close to cover where you can in a heartbeat break the engagement. If you hit me unaware, it takes me a lot longer to regen 100 shields or god forbid 100 armor then it takes you to regen the equivalent. Use your higher regen to your advantage and wear me down. I also have a proto scout, I know this works by doing this from both perspectives. Wear Me Down. Range is your friend, engage from range, take cover briefly to regen shields, rinse and repeat. Punish any and all heavies in the open, you will win if they are far away enough from cover. Anyone who says heavies have an advantage over scouts in all situations should be permanently ignored, they don't have the tactical skills nor the gun game to compete, they are pubtrash newbies and will corrupt your tactics. For close-work use shotties, ARs, and assault CRs, they have the DPS to make hit-and-run worthwhile, for long range work punishing heavies in the open stick to RR and CRs, Scrambler Rifles work mainly against Minnies and Cals due to how shield based they are otherwise you may end up blowing through a ridiculous amount of ammunition. learn to recognize when heavies are not alone. This pains me to say this, but a lot of people don't understand the concept of "two-against-one" and think they can solo in every situation. A Heavy who is squadded with a nearby scout or sensor logi has a massive advantage over you, as suddenly you lost your advantage of being unseen. This Will Kill You Every Time Against An Equal Skill Heavy. In a standard suit, you will always be at a disadvantage against a protobear. learn to listen to reloads, an HMG reload is LOUD, wait for him to gun down an obvious pubtrash, wait for a few seconds close by, and when he hits that reload, run in and blow him to hell, when he pulls out his secondary run away, rinse and repeat. Or just flat out kill him while he tries to stubbornly finish the 6-8 second (Depending on skills) HMG reload. If you can't kill him in 6 seconds of him stubbornly reloading, you're a ** shot. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire**
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2919	Posted - 2014.06.15 16:33:00 - [15] - Quote fist test to see what his sensitivity is at. Many HMG users prefer low sensitivity, if this is the case it is easy to dace around him before he can target you. If proto HMG user have higher sensitivity, you're SOL Bonus 1: cook a flux grenade and hit the HMG user with it. toss your second flux and run around behind him. full charge knives while he's looking for the person that threw the grenade. strafe the same direction he's turning around in and get a swipe in, jump into the direction he's turning, get a swipe in, jump around him, get a swipe in, jump around, knife a last time for the kill Bonus 2: Increase sensitivity to 90/90 or higher, follow scout as fast as he moves around, kill him with 300-400 HP left And always remember, just because the animation comes from the gun, the bullets actually shoot from the eyes Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
rithujith roshan Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo 27	Posted - 2014.06.15 16:37:00 - [16] - Quote What are u trying to prove? If the scout is a newbie & the the heavy is dedicated in his role ,then the heavy will win.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1979	Posted - 2014.06.15 16:37:00 - [17] - Quote Yeah, I have maxed sensitivity for the aforementioned reasons... Also smart heavies have autoaim turned off, as the damn thing likes to keep the edge of the HMG reticule on the target instead of the center dot. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
BLOOD Ruler The Lionheart Coalition 363	Posted - 2014.06.15 16:45:00 - [18] - Quote Step1 Flank-check.Step2 weapon check-check.Step3 move in quietly with nova knives to weaken or take away proto heavy shields-check.Step4 finish target with another hit from nova knives and ending it with shotgun.Use these steps when proto is alone with no teammates Feel the pain of my knives and the piercing pain your skull has felt to my pistol.I am the Assassin.
Schecter 666 53	Posted - 2014.06.15 17:10:00 - [19] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Schecter 666 wrote: Just shoot them in the back, I use a 200hp shotgun guy and taking on heavies is no problem, just shoot them in the back! It will take four shots to accomplish this - taking several seconds. In that time, said heavy can turn around and shoot in the general direction of the newbro scout. Newbro scout dies immediately. are we not assuming that the average player in DUST is braindead? wait a minute then the scout would be too. OK I'll leave it to someone else lol, the power of gallente and armour tanking should see them through. The Struggle...is tolerating DUST for even 1 match without flushing your own foot down the toilet in a fit of rage.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1863	Posted - 2014.06.15 17:17:00 - [20] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: I've been playing heavies since the day they existed, back when we had base 100 shields and 600 armor... + Stuff Play by the rules or do not play ... * Newbro Scout does not need your pro tips (he's already flanked Pro Heavy, and the Pro Heavy is alone) * Range is a non-option for Newbro Scout; Newbro Scout has Shotgun or Knives. +1 for effort Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley

Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1981	Posted - 2014.06.15 17:37:00 - [21] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: As I recall, the Shotgun Scout from behind in Chrome was a "hard counter" to anything, including proto-bear Heavies. Sort of, due to the crappy and buggy server hit detection making mobile scouts almost impossible to hit with just about anything, actually, if we are thinking that far back. The Shotgun scout from chrome was imba for both better and for worse, though I'm not so sure I'd call it a hard counter to everything, but it was in need of severe tweaking. Anywho, my tips still stand if we ignore the range part. At the end of the day, a standard suit versus a proto suit should rightfully be an uphill battle. shrugs I'll maybe write up the difficulties for your scenario 2 later, for newbro heavies against proto scouts, but it sure won't be pretty... I find it easy to kill newbro heavies with my protobear cal scout, but then again my suits are custom-built for such things. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1864	Posted - 2014.06.15 17:40:00 - [22] - Quote BLOOD Ruler wrote: Step1 Flank-check.Step2 weapon check-check.Step3 move in quietly with nova knives to weaken or take away proto heavy shields-check.Step4 finish target with another hit from nova knives and ending it with shotgun.Use these steps when proto is alone with no teammates First Attack Perfectly executed, charged backstab. 90x2x4 = 720; Heavy has 940 Armor remaining. Second Attack Follow up slash. Heavy bunny-hopped (attack will fail); assuming it didn't; Heavy has 760 Armor remaining. * Note: Heavy is now facing you, backpedaling, and firing at 900 DPS * Third Attack Shotgun follow up. You'll be dead by now, but in case you aren't, you will do more than 400 damage. 360 Armor remaining. Fourth Attack By this time, you'll definitely be dead and the heavy will definitely have backpedaled beyond your range. + 1 effort and having the cahones to run SG primary + NK secondary :-) Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1864	Posted - 2014.06.15 17:44:00 - [23] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: The Shotgun scout from chrome was imba for both better and for worse, though I'm not so sure I'd call it a hard counter to everything, but it was in need of severe tweaking. What I said was "a shotgun scout from behind ... " Remember how everyone (friend and foe) would sh!t themselves when a shotgun went off nearby? lol Bullet Weaving was a problem in Chrome, but its off topic. As are your Pro Tips. I'm trying to keep things in the context of "Scout flanks Heavy" and how the scenarios that follow have changed. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 539	Posted - 2014.06.15 18:07:00 - [24] - Quote Does this heavy have armor reps, or just stacked plates? I'd assume the latter due to the health, but I don't run a Gallente heavy, so I'm not sure what they're capable of... I'd say it would depend on the map. An open map means the heavy would likely win every time, but a map like Ashland... With either weapon, the scout simply needs positioning and patience. Flanking and possibly fluxing his target first before moving in to chip away at the target's health before running away again. This would be easiest with a shotgun, even the basic variant does, I believe, well over a hundred damage more than the basic Nova Knives. If the heavy doesn't have armor reps, it's as simple as repeating the above until the scout can finally get those last strikes in... not that I'd ever recommend a basic scout play fair against a proto heavy. Now, if that Min scout had Lv5 in his suit's operation and Lv5 in Nova Knife Proficiency... it would be a more even match up, but otherwise, without cloaking or RE's, chipping away at the heavy's health bar would work just as often as it would fail. It's like fighting a boss in Dark Souls. The boss can make mistakes right and left and still survive, but if you make one mistake, you're dead. On another note though, this makes me want custom games. I want to put a squad of heavies against a squad of scouts. Or just 1v1 duels. Nova Knives are best sidearm.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1866	Posted - 2014.06.15 18:08:00 - [25] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: Does this heavy have armor reps, or just stacked plates? I'd assume the latter due to the health, but I don't run a Gallente heavy, so I'm not sure what they're capable of... I'd say it would depend on the map. An open map means the heavy would likely win every time, but a map like Ashland... With either weapon, the scout simply needs positioning and patience. Flanking and possibly fluxing his target first before moving in to chip away at the target's health before running away again. This would be easiest with a shotgun, even the basic variant does, I believe, well over a hundred damage more than the basic Nova Knives. If the heavy doesn't have armor reps, it's as simple as repeating the above until the scout can finally get those last strikes in... not that I'd ever recommend a basic scout play fair against a proto heavy. Now, if that Min scout had Lv5 in his suit's operation and Lv5 in Nova Knife Proficiency... it would be a more even match up, but otherwise, without cloaking or RE's, chipping away at the heavy's health bar would work just as often as it would fail. It's like fighting a boss in Dark Souls. The boss can make mistakes right and left and still survive, but if you make one mistake, you're dead. On another note though, this makes me want custom games. I want to put a squad of heavies against a squad of scouts. Or just 1v1 duels. Used Protofits to build out Proto Heavy gk.0. He has 3 complex plates and 1 complex shield. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3653	Posted - 2014.06.15 18:57:00 - [26] - Quote SG won't do it for a Newbro Scout, Sidearm is what is going to make this one finish. Open with the SG, quick switch to Sidearm ScP- two headshots is faster than the SG will do the job. Even at basic/militia the ScP has the stopping power IF you can land those headshots. SMG - because of Newbro status they will not have the SP invested to concentrate fire, so it will be spray and prayGÇª likely dead scout. MAGsec - Spool up kills you, kick means you don't open with this as a Newbro. Bolt Pistol - Not enough time unless you have a doorway to work with Nova Knife - Not going to cut it as a back up in this scenario or as a primary unless Newbro has invested as much SP as possible into them. Ion- Not enough Alpha and seize will be the death of a Newbro (and some more experienced players) Using Knives as a Newbro is often Death, best bet is to bring a Bastard with you. KRRROOOOOOM
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1389	Posted - 2014.06.15 19:01:00 - [27] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Given * Newbro Scout (g-1, 110 / 190 HP) w/ Standard Shotgun. * Proto Heavy (gk.0, 560 / 1100 HP) w/ Boundless HMG. Restriction * Newbro Scout must not use Remote Explosives. * Proto Heavy must use "mid-air pirouette" when first hit. Solve * Newbro Scout has managed to flank lone Proto Heavy; by what steps can Newbro Scout defeat this mark? Bonus One * Rework above scenario using Newbro Scout m-1 (120 / 85 HP) w/ Standard Nova Knives. Bonus Two * Reversing roles, what specific difficulties do Newbro Heavies face when engaging Proto Scouts? Rigged scenario is rigged. Allow me to counter with an equally rigged game Scout has proto RR on manus peak and heavy has HMG and is in the middle of the open no cover what so ever. tell me a way for the heavy to win Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1876	Posted - 2014.06.15 19:13:00 - [28] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Given * Newbro Scout (g-1, 110 / 190 HP) w/ Standard Shotgun. * Proto Heavy (gk.0, 560 / 1100 HP) w/ Boundless HMG. Restriction * Newbro Scout must not use Remote Explosives. * Proto Heavy must use "mid-air pirouette" when first hit. Solve * Newbro Scout has managed to flank lone Proto Heavy; by what steps can Newbro Scout defeat this mark? Bonus One * Rework above scenario using Newbro Scout m-1 (120 / 85 HP) w/ Standard Nova Knives. Bonus Two * Reversing roles, what specific difficulties do Newbro Heavies face when engaging Proto Scouts? Rigged scenario is rigged. Allow me to counter with an equally rigged game Scout has proto RR on manus peak and heavy has HMG and is in the middle of the open no cover what so ever. tell me a way for the heavy to win There's nothing rigged or wrong about a low-level Scout flanking a Proto Heavy. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
DozersMouse XIII Inner.Hell 836	Posted - 2014.06.15 19:28:00 - [29] - Quote newbro scout avoids this encounter and moves on to the next target newbro heavy should have never been alone and needs get his ass back to a high traffic area don't harm the hamsters
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 474	Posted - 2014.06.15 19:38:00 - [30] - Quote If the heavy can aim, the only way to solve this problem is by leaving battle. If the scout can aim as well as the heavy, the heavy wins. Its a lose-lose situation for a new scout. Now for bonus B: Heavy has back turned, proto scout shotguns once (1), Heavy jumps forward and does a midair turn, scout fires again at 70% efficacy (2), heavy jumps backwards again, and is now out of range of the scout and fully turned around. .45 seconds later, the scout is dead, and the third (3) shot of the shotgun failed to do damage, and the heavy is in critical health. So, for the heavy, it requires almost scout-like tactics, aim, skill, and a little bit of luck, and he will win against a proto scout with equal skill, tactics and aim. The heavy is, however, now in critical condition, having only 400 armor, and must even reload his HMG. What all Minjas are thinking as they play... Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...



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