DUST Search - [Solve] Newbro Scout vs Proto Heavy

Crimson ShieId wrote:

Does this heavy have armor reps, or just stacked plates? I'd assume the latter due to the health, but I don't run a Gallente heavy, so I'm not sure what they're capable of...

I'd say it would depend on the map. An open map means the heavy would likely win every time, but a map like Ashland... With either weapon, the scout simply needs positioning and patience. Flanking and possibly fluxing his target first before moving in to chip away at the target's health before running away again. This would be easiest with a shotgun, even the basic variant does, I believe, well over a hundred damage more than the basic Nova Knives. If the heavy doesn't have armor reps, it's as simple as repeating the above until the scout can finally get those last strikes in... not that I'd ever recommend a basic scout play fair against a proto heavy. Now, if that Min scout had Lv5 in his suit's operation and Lv5 in Nova Knife Proficiency... it would be a more even match up, but otherwise, without cloaking or RE's, chipping away at the heavy's health bar would work just as often as it would fail. It's like fighting a boss in Dark Souls. The boss can make mistakes right and left and still survive, but if you make one mistake, you're dead.

On another note though, this makes me want custom games. I want to put a squad of heavies against a squad of scouts. Or just 1v1 duels.


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Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1855	Posted - 2014.06.15 14:49:00 - [1] - Quote Given * Newbro Scout: Scout g-1, 110 shields / 190 Armor, Standard Shotgun or Standard Knives. * Proto Heavy: Sentinel gk.0, 560 Shields / 1100 Armor, Boundless HMG. Restriction * Newbro Scout must not use Remote Explosives. * Proto Heavy must "mid-air pirouette" when first hit. Solve * Newbro Scout has managed to flank a lone Proto Heavy; by what steps can Newbro Scout defeat this mark? Bonus Question * Reversing roles, what specific difficulties do Newbro Heavies face when firing upon Proto Scouts? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1857	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:05:00 - [2] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: RE+cloak+ACR+ProtoScoot+plates=newberry heavy quits dust/quits being heavy. Play by the rules or do not play ... * Newbro Scout cannot fit a cloak. * Newbro Scout must use Shotgun or Knives * Newbro Scout must not use REs. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1857	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:13:00 - [3] - Quote BLAAAASTER wrote: Well use a combat rifle and stay ahead of the heavies turn , jump over him as needed and the weakest suit can win. We must play by the rules ... * Newbro Scout must engage using a Standard Shotgun or Nova Knives * Proto Heavy must execute the "mid-air pirouette" maneuver when 1st hit Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1859	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:28:00 - [4] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Newbro Scout sees Proto squad, quits battle and finds new one. Victory! Good eye! A+ 100% - Valid Solution 110% - Valid Solution (Bonus A) Why skip Bonus B? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1859	Posted - 2014.06.15 15:43:00 - [5] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Newbro Scout must Master Jump+Strafe. Assuming our Newbro Scout is using Shotgun or Knives, this tactic will be consistently defeated by Proto Heavy's Jump+Pirouette+Backpedal. PS: If you are advocating for range improvements to Knives and Shotguns, I will support you in your quest :-) Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1863	Posted - 2014.06.15 17:17:00 - [6] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: I've been playing heavies since the day they existed, back when we had base 100 shields and 600 armor... + Stuff Play by the rules or do not play ... * Newbro Scout does not need your pro tips (he's already flanked Pro Heavy, and the Pro Heavy is alone) * Range is a non-option for Newbro Scout; Newbro Scout has Shotgun or Knives. +1 for effort Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1864	Posted - 2014.06.15 17:40:00 - [7] - Quote BLOOD Ruler wrote: Step1 Flank-check.Step2 weapon check-check.Step3 move in quietly with nova knives to weaken or take away proto heavy shields-check.Step4 finish target with another hit from nova knives and ending it with shotgun.Use these steps when proto is alone with no teammates First Attack Perfectly executed, charged backstab. 90x2x4 = 720; Heavy has 940 Armor remaining. Second Attack Follow up slash. Heavy bunny-hopped (attack will fail); assuming it didn't; Heavy has 760 Armor remaining. * Note: Heavy is now facing you, backpedaling, and firing at 900 DPS * Third Attack Shotgun follow up. You'll be dead by now, but in case you aren't, you will do more than 400 damage. 360 Armor remaining. Fourth Attack By this time, you'll definitely be dead and the heavy will definitely have backpedaled beyond your range. + 1 effort and having the cahones to run SG primary + NK secondary :-) Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1864	Posted - 2014.06.15 17:44:00 - [8] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: The Shotgun scout from chrome was imba for both better and for worse, though I'm not so sure I'd call it a hard counter to everything, but it was in need of severe tweaking. What I said was "a shotgun scout from behind ... " Remember how everyone (friend and foe) would sh!t themselves when a shotgun went off nearby? lol Bullet Weaving was a problem in Chrome, but its off topic. As are your Pro Tips. I'm trying to keep things in the context of "Scout flanks Heavy" and how the scenarios that follow have changed. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1866	Posted - 2014.06.15 18:08:00 - [9] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: Does this heavy have armor reps, or just stacked plates? I'd assume the latter due to the health, but I don't run a Gallente heavy, so I'm not sure what they're capable of... I'd say it would depend on the map. An open map means the heavy would likely win every time, but a map like Ashland... With either weapon, the scout simply needs positioning and patience. Flanking and possibly fluxing his target first before moving in to chip away at the target's health before running away again. This would be easiest with a shotgun, even the basic variant does, I believe, well over a hundred damage more than the basic Nova Knives. If the heavy doesn't have armor reps, it's as simple as repeating the above until the scout can finally get those last strikes in... not that I'd ever recommend a basic scout play fair against a proto heavy. Now, if that Min scout had Lv5 in his suit's operation and Lv5 in Nova Knife Proficiency... it would be a more even match up, but otherwise, without cloaking or RE's, chipping away at the heavy's health bar would work just as often as it would fail. It's like fighting a boss in Dark Souls. The boss can make mistakes right and left and still survive, but if you make one mistake, you're dead. On another note though, this makes me want custom games. I want to put a squad of heavies against a squad of scouts. Or just 1v1 duels. Used Protofits to build out Proto Heavy gk.0. He has 3 complex plates and 1 complex shield. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1876	Posted - 2014.06.15 19:13:00 - [10] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Given * Newbro Scout (g-1, 110 / 190 HP) w/ Standard Shotgun. * Proto Heavy (gk.0, 560 / 1100 HP) w/ Boundless HMG. Restriction * Newbro Scout must not use Remote Explosives. * Proto Heavy must use "mid-air pirouette" when first hit. Solve * Newbro Scout has managed to flank lone Proto Heavy; by what steps can Newbro Scout defeat this mark? Bonus One * Rework above scenario using Newbro Scout m-1 (120 / 85 HP) w/ Standard Nova Knives. Bonus Two * Reversing roles, what specific difficulties do Newbro Heavies face when engaging Proto Scouts? Rigged scenario is rigged. Allow me to counter with an equally rigged game Scout has proto RR on manus peak and heavy has HMG and is in the middle of the open no cover what so ever. tell me a way for the heavy to win There's nothing rigged or wrong about a low-level Scout flanking a Proto Heavy. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1885	Posted - 2014.06.15 19:53:00 - [11] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Rigged scenario is rigged. Allow me to counter with an equally rigged game Scout has proto RR on manus peak and heavy has HMG and is in the middle of the open no cover what so ever. tell me a way for the heavy to win Play by the rules or don't play at all ... There's nothing rigged or wrong about a low-level Scout flanking a Proto Heavy. Nothing rigged huh? you gave a low sp scout only short range weapons to deal with a suit that is designed to mulch everything in its optimal range... and to add insult to injury you denied the poor scout of one of its greatest tools the RE. I must admit i'm starting to enjoy the drivel you are vomiting onto the forums. It's like watching one of those reality shows, makes you wonder what the idiots are gonna do next Scouts have been flanking and back-stabbing Heavies since the beginning. Low-Range / High Alpha weapons aren't supposed to be a handicap. The fact that you think they are a handicap says alot about the state of things. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1885	Posted - 2014.06.15 20:13:00 - [12] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Yes they have and yes they STILL do. However flanking and backstabbing doesn't just mean SG and KN. When I use my scout I back stab with a LR by sneaking behind enemy line and hitting em from surprise angles. Am I a bad scout for not limiting my self to the SG NK stereotype? Low-Range / High Alpha weapons aren't supposed to be a handicap. The fact that you think they are a handicap says alot about the state of things. Are you advocating for SG / NK buffs or Heavy nerfs? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1888	Posted - 2014.06.15 20:21:00 - [13] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: What the scenario seems to be highlighting to me is that Alpha Damage weapons are struggling against the Alpha eHP models using high DPS weapons. We can call the scenario rigged all we want but this happens in game, it happens with players of all skill levels in all sorts of positions. So would the same problem arise from a new Heavy against a new Scout using the same scenario? Somebody gets it! +1 Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1888	Posted - 2014.06.15 20:25:00 - [14] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Yes they have and yes they STILL do. However flanking and backstabbing doesn't just mean SG and KN. When I use my scout I back stab with a LR by sneaking behind enemy line and hitting em from surprise angles. Am I a bad scout for not limiting my self to the SG NK stereotype? Scouts have always used Low-Range / High Alpha weapons. Low-Range / High Alpha weapons aren't supposed to be a handicap. The fact that you think they are a handicap says alot about the state of things. So are you advocating for SG / NK buffs or Heavy nerfs? there you go making assumptions again I use LR because its Amarr tech if we had an Amarr heavy weapon I wouldn't even be in this conversation right now. BTW a PRO SG already does ridiculous damage and KN already oneshot everything but a TANKED heavy Can a Newbro Scout wield Pro Knives or Shotguns? Newbro HMG Heavy spots Proto Scout ... Newbro Heavy has extremely good odds. Newbro NK/SG Scout flanks Proto Heavy ... Newbro Scout has no chance. Is it really that hard to follow how this might be a problem? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1889	Posted - 2014.06.15 20:55:00 - [15] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: I'd say that your "problem" is arbitrary, overly restricted, and is designed to be biased. "Solving" it would achieve nothing. This arbitrary "problem" prompts us to focus on an actual problem, the Pirouetting Heavy. You and I may not posses the tools to solve the "problem" within its restricted bounds. But others may possess the appropriate tools ... @ Rattati Did you know that the rotation speed of a Biotic Scout is exactly the same as that of a Sentinel running purely complex plates? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1889	Posted - 2014.06.15 21:06:00 - [16] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: THAT IS A PURE FCKING LIE! I know for a fact that the movement penalty on plates applies to turn speed. At first I took you for a misguided fool... Now I see your true colors, and I WILL NOT stand for you biased bile any longer. There is NOTHING wrong with the heavy and NOTHING wrong with the HMG. I totally agree with you ... it is absolute bullsht. But its the truth. Test it yourself. I just did. Once you discover that I'm right, do you think maybe we can be good friends? Maybe you can go back over all your posts and ranting and points ... and fix them? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1891	Posted - 2014.06.15 22:02:00 - [17] - Quote @ Arkena / Rattati I'm under the impression that plates have no effect whatsoever on rotation speed. The only factor which impacts rotation speed is input sensitivty. 200 HP or 2000 HP, we all pirouette at the exact same rate. If that strikes as you as 'fine' you're probably a Heavy. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1892	Posted - 2014.06.15 22:52:00 - [18] - Quote Spademan wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Could we leave the complaining about the 'other side' talking 'propaganda' or 'only thinking its fine because they're a heavy'? This goes for both of you. Could you film said test? It doesn't have to be a capture card, a stable phone camera would work fine. I'm not on atm but I'll be filming properly tomorrow to settle this. Auntie Wyrnspire, putting you young whippersnappers in your place. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1905	Posted - 2014.06.16 04:16:00 - [19] - Quote castba wrote: Scenario: scout gets a sg blast to the back of heavy, heavy jumps and turns but instead of standing still like an idiot after the first shot, the scout has also jumped forward on an angle. Heavy loses scout due to expecting the enemy to the rear and once again the scout is behind or at least beside the heavy who is disoriented/confused. SG blast with immediate strafe. Odds that the heavy jumps again are low so he turns. Another sg blast to the side/rear of the heavy. Usually dead heavy. Some fancy moves for a Newbro Scout! Lots of variables, but certainly possible! +1 If you have time, tell us about some of the fancy moves Newbro Heavies use when they see a Proto Scout :-) Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1915	Posted - 2014.06.16 12:16:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: Has anyone done tests to see if the X and Y sensitivity settings have the capability to increase rotation speed? To answer your question, absolutely. Further, I believe turn speeds are a constant ... Does LightFrame+KinCats = LightFrame = MedFrame = HeavyFrame = HeavyFrame+Plates ? Some say, exactly the same no matter what (myself included) Some say, tiny % difference among frames. Some say, tiny % difference based upon plates. Some say, major % difference based upon plates. Arkena's going to record testing today. Should settle this. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1915	Posted - 2014.06.16 12:19:00 - [21] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: Lol this thread. Seriously. Heavies > Scouts I remember you! Says: Minmatar Scouts are fine. Says: Nerf REs. I won't ask you to solve the riddle, but tell us, what are your thoughts on current Heavy Rotation Speed? Too fast, Too slow, Dunno? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley