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[Suggestion] On Tweaking Cloak

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Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 691	Posted - 2014.05.16 13:22:00 - [1] - Quote Disable auto-toggle on item swap. Doing so will require cloak users to deactivate manually in advance of engagement. This will fix the "fire-from-cloak" problem.
Oswald Rehnquist 1351	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:03:00 - [2] - Quote The delay before shooting is good in whatever form, I personally favor the time delay more so than a manual deactivate delay but this works too. This should also be done before any changes to see how this works in conjunction with a much needed assault buff. As fun as the cloak is, I do miss my old scout tactics, a "bumping" range or minimal distance before you become visible would be interesting mechanic that would actually make the last bit of closing in feel more challenging. While I am not saying action should be put behind this next thought, but I'd make the argument that Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom In other games, having a cloak usually takes away your firepower, which is how the "true front liner" competes with it. This is done in Eve where cloaks (have a time delay) require the same slots as weapons, in KZ SF where you can only use a knife while cloak, in Ps2 were the utility cloak (25% reduction to profile) only allows the equipping of sidearms, etc. Below 28 dB
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 82	Posted - 2014.05.16 17:15:00 - [3] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Require users to manually deactivate; solve the "fire-from-cloak" problem. * Addresses the biggest issue with cloak * Discourages "surprise" frontal assaults * Encourages old-school scoutly tactics Alternative: Accelerate decloak animation speed (if possible). Manual activation can be buggy, as remote explosives do not always detonate when they should, and screws you over when pressing that button 2-3 more times. Just reduce the time of the decloak animation or remove it completely. I find nothing wrong with this as a mainly scout player. Also, there are no "suprise" frontal assaults, anyone can see you and obliterate you if you're standing in front of them, cloaked or not. The only time where cloaks are "invisible" is when the background behind them is immensely bright, and darker locations, like the inside of buildings, reveals cloaks very easily. Funny as to how it's the reverse ninja when you think about it... hiding in the shadows is actually a bad idea, as the light will conceal you better.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 713	Posted - 2014.05.16 20:20:00 - [4] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Require users to manually deactivate; solve the "fire-from-cloak" problem. * Addresses the biggest issue with cloak * Discourages "surprise" frontal assaults * Encourages old-school scoutly tactics Alternative: Accelerate decloak animation speed (if possible). Manual activation can be buggy, as remote explosives do not always detonate when they should, and screws you over when pressing that button 2-3 more times. Just reduce the time of the decloak animation or remove it completely. I find nothing wrong with this as a mainly scout player. Also, there are no "suprise" frontal assaults, anyone can see you and obliterate you if you're standing in front of them, cloaked or not. The only time where cloaks are "invisible" is when the background behind them is immensely bright, and darker locations, like the inside of buildings, reveals cloaks very easily. Funny as to how it's the reverse ninja when you think about it... hiding in the shadows is actually a bad idea, as the light will conceal you better. One of Judge's videos demonstrates what I mean by a cloaked frontal assault, which very much exists. I believe he referred to it as first mover advantage or some such. Agreed on all other points; ideally, decloak could happen instantly, and partial visibility could be removed from the equation.
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 186	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:52:00 - [5] - Quote Bump. Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1151	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:35:00 - [6] - Quote Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1224	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:44:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Yes, yes it is. Last few PCs I've played, the only salavage has been Gallente Scouts... Its the simple fact that they can become pure invisible to even their counters (Gal Logi or Cal Scout), while, if you don't see those on the enemy team, you can be invisible to everyone and still have a lot of health. You can't up the power of the counters (my Minmatar Scout already can't hide from them when they are barely using Precision mods as is), so, looking at the Gal is needed. Someone's idea of a bonus to the module (instead of a blanket bonus) seemed interesting, but, that's for other people to discuss. I think I'm over Dust now...
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 750	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:45:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Subject matter experts on the topic live here, should you ever wish to query the Scout Community. IWS is another reliable source of information; he did an excellent job moderating early conversation on the topic here. I'm not surprised to see that brick-tanked GalScouts leading in popularity. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1541	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:09:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. My notion as a minja has been that given the absolute need to reduce profile due to squishiness (a consequence of fitting capacity), is that the cloak is practically necessary as an active profile dampener. Otherwise, I would light up like a Christmas tree, and there is no possible way I would be able to take anyone, even other scouts, on head up. That is also why you don't see many minjas. "I've made a huge mistake." -G.O.B. Bluth
superjoe360x D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 321	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:09:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Please take a look at the Cal scouts hit detection issues also. I get tired of shooting one and only 1 outta every 4 bullets registering. Thanx. Commander, Director of DL and Leader of The SS Elite Squad *FIGHT THE POWER

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 792	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:32:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Cloak needs to lose the profile damp when activated. The extra damp essentially frees up a low slot so it's easy to be damped out, cloaked as well as have free slots for tanking. Aside from that, the fact that +hp modules are a lot more attractive when a) your base hp is so low, and b) you have copious amounts of speed and shield regen to sacrifice in the name of tank c) you have stupid amounts of fitting room left then you can see why it's tempting to say 'screw assaults, imma making a slayer scout instead'. (note that I'm okay with scout ak.0 being the light assault suit) IMO, revisiting how armour modules work will also radically change how armour scouts are fit and it's probably premature to adjust too much yet. Dust/Eve transfers
Oswald Rehnquist 1363	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:50:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. There is going to be a thousand opinions on this, so make this 1001. First just to state what aren't problems 1) Racial roles are not the problem. We've had similar stats with the old gal scout, when scouts were unpopular. Thus with the high percentage of medium frames pre 1.8, no precision was needed for scouts to still maintain their 360 vision. In fact many scouts didn't even max precision due to how useless it was as the base was enough to catch 90% of players. 2) The dampening on the cloak isn't the problem, most people who now play scouts, they don't even throw on a damp or precision mod, they are assault suits donning the scout suit. The cloak dampening bonus just works like a scout submarine warfare between scouts, and has no effect between scouts and non scouts. These are the problems, as I quote myself for the third time Quote: Assaults vs Scouts Assaults over scouts - +1 module +130ish more ehp Scouts over assaults - -15 Signature -10 Precision +10 Scan Radius +30-40% better Regen, only marginally faster .2-.5 +10-50 more cpu and 5-14 pg +1 Equipment slot +15% stamina +50% more stam regen +10% hacking And this is assuming that all racial abilities are equal, since you can't really compare racials 1:1 Which translates into the informal equation of Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom There have been dozens of threads on this, This one is the most intelligent and is filled with the most pre 1.8 scout input. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=149208 Below 28 dB
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1541	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:52:00 - [13] - Quote Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak. "I've made a huge mistake." -G.O.B. Bluth
Oswald Rehnquist 1363	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:11:00 - [14] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak. I agree with this 100%, it was also one of the reasons why I had a "these aren't the problem" section, but there is still the problem between scouts and assaults. Fixing modules still leaves the issue that assaults are lacking in better innate stat or slot layout. Again, I very much like the simplification this presents Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom To properly punch out some of these discrepancies, we have two tools, stats and slots. We also have to option to power creep the assault or shave down the scout. I'd suggest the following, 1) first swap scout and assault regen stats, a high regen encourages brick tanking else regen is wasted. And since cloaking is the scouts utility form of defense/offense, a low regen value is adequate on a scout suit, and it will give the assault user who can't hide some staying / trench holding power. 2) Give the assault +1 high and +1 low on each suit. Those should be enough, but if it isn't the nuclear option is 3) Downgrade Scout's light weapon to a sidearm slot, which would make my ScR/BP combo obsolete, but the option is still there. Below 28 dB
Al the destroyer NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 134	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:31:00 - [15] - Quote If there is a cal scout on the field I can't run my min scout no matter how many profile dampeners I run if you ask me the cal scout and the gal scout need work or you need to buff the HP of the min scout because you don't have enough CPU and pg to shield tank you can't speed tank because every ck scout kills you with a RR and you can't armor tank because all the scouts see you with no profile damp on min scout< all other scouts Still playing having more fun than ever cuz IDGAF.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 218	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:30:00 - [16] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak. I agree with this 100%, it was also one of the reasons why I had a "these aren't the problem" section, but there is still the problem between scouts and assaults. Fixing modules still leaves the issue that assaults are lacking in better innate stat or slot layout. Again, I very much like the simplification this presents Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom To properly punch out some of these discrepancies, we have two tools, stats and slots. We also have to option to power creep the assault or shave down the scout. I'd suggest the following, 1) first swap scout and assault regen stats, a high regen encourages brick tanking else regen is wasted. And since cloaking is the scouts utility form of defense/offense, a low regen value is adequate on a scout suit, and it will give the assault user who can't hide some staying / trench holding power. 2) Give the assault +1 high and +1 low on each suit. Those should be enough, but if it isn't the nuclear option is 3) Downgrade Scout's light weapon to a sidearm slot, which would make my ScR/BP combo obsolete, but the option is still there. Unfortunetly your #3 is not currently possible, do remember that shotgun is a light weapon still, which is why many people are talking about adding an M slot so that we have 4 types of weapons, side arm, light, medium, heavy. #2 while this sounds good, like it would solve the problem I don't think it would, scouts have a regen to the suits now, least the Gallente does which is in essence an extra low slot, so people would instantly complain and want that back similar to when logis had that. They also have better speed, radar, and are harder to detect, with a smaller hit box, so all that you would be doing is equalling the stats between scout and assault suit currently. #1 As explained with the #2 scouts are better in all fields or least most of them, the assault suit just is in a very bad place right now and needs to be entirely worked over again. The assault suit is becoming less common then heavies or logis, as both of these have far better survivability.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2036	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:39:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. The counter to that is becoming brick tanked Cal scouts to pick them up (not commenting on how effective a counter it is, just it's increasing presence in the meta). In general it is my perception that if the only, or best, counter a given asset is the asset itself then there is a balance concern to be addressed. If the cloak effected movement speed as armor plates do in Dust (and as cloaks do in EVE) there would be ways to generate more role specificity. Some scouts could have a reduction to the speed debuff, others could gain faster refresh of the cloak (if that were useful, as it stands most scout fits I'm aware of don't even use the proto version as it's considered unnecessary). If there were a fire delay one race could gain buffs to it's reduction and if they had a 'collision = decloak' mechanic a race could gain buffs which tightened that radius for higher level infiltration. Let me be clear, I think the addition of cloaks to the game is a positive, and I want to see them remain viable on the field, however their current debuffs, decloak mechanics, rates of regen et al combine to make them quite hard to counter. Racial roles for the cloak are a wonderful idea but without more diversity to the mechanics of the cloak itself they will be hard to develop/enhance. The ability to hack while cloaked gives the Min Scout a racial niche. The Cal scout with its passive scans also arguably has a racial niche. The Gal scout is our current combat monster. The Amarr scout is suffering from a sub par racial bonus and being out done by all the areas scouts are defined by. The further problem (much like the CR with regards to the Min Commando) is the RE. Not to be overly simplistic RE + Cloak = Win. As long as the RE can so consistently and quickly OHK nearly every infantry fitting, and can be a more effective AV option than the majority of AV specific weapons, there will continue to be a problem. The most direct fix I can think of is to ensure a larger firing delay after decloaking but that tweak does nothing to create or enhance a niche for each racial variant. As a closing note related to the Gal scout specifically, looking at how likely it is to avoid scans even from Cal Scouts or Gal Logi with Active Scanners is important. If even theoretical detection of a fitting is very low and it can have high eHP as well that fit is going to be and remain highly dominant. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2036	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:43:00 - [18] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak. I agree with this 100%, it was also one of the reasons why I had a "these aren't the problem" section, but there is still the problem between scouts and assaults. Fixing modules still leaves the issue that assaults are lacking in better innate stat or slot layout. Again, I very much like the simplification this presents Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom To properly punch out some of these discrepancies, we have two tools, stats and slots. We also have to option to power creep the assault or shave down the scout. I'd suggest the following, 1) first swap scout and assault regen stats, a high regen encourages brick tanking else regen is wasted. And since cloaking is the scouts utility form of defense/offense, a low regen value is adequate on a scout suit, and it will give the assault user who can't hide some staying / trench holding power. 2) Give the assault +1 high and +1 low on each suit. Those should be enough, but if it isn't the nuclear option is 3) Downgrade Scout's light weapon to a sidearm slot, which would make my ScR/BP combo obsolete, but the option is still there. Unfortunetly your #3 is not currently possible, do remember that shotgun is a light weapon still, which is why many people are talking about adding an M slot so that we have 4 types of weapons, side arm, light, medium, heavy. #2 while this sounds good, like it would solve the problem I don't think it would, scouts have a regen to the suits now, least the Gallente does which is in essence an extra low slot, so people would instantly complain and want that back similar to when logis had that. They also have better speed, radar, and are harder to detect, with a smaller hit box, so all that you would be doing is equalling the stats between scout and assault suit currently. #1 As explained with the #2 scouts are better in all fields or least most of them, the assault suit just is in a very bad place right now and needs to be entirely worked over again. The assault suit is becoming less common then heavies or logis, as both of these have far better survivability. ^Generally true and accurate. The Heavy is being pushed farther into use by the current scout cloak situation due to it's high eHP and close range DPS allowing a higher likelihood of surviving an encounter with a decloaking scout. One clarification I do have to make however is that support logi, those who actually run full loadouts of proto equipment, are both slower and squisher than assault suits. Cheers, Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 781	Posted - 2014.05.18 04:46:00 - [19] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: lithkul devant wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak. I agree with this 100%, it was also one of the reasons why I had a "these aren't the problem" section, but there is still the problem between scouts and assaults. Fixing modules still leaves the issue that assaults are lacking in better innate stat or slot layout. Again, I very much like the simplification this presents Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom To properly punch out some of these discrepancies, we have two tools, stats and slots. We also have to option to power creep the assault or shave down the scout. I'd suggest the following, 1) first swap scout and assault regen stats, a high regen encourages brick tanking else regen is wasted. And since cloaking is the scouts utility form of defense/offense, a low regen value is adequate on a scout suit, and it will give the assault user who can't hide some staying / trench holding power. 2) Give the assault +1 high and +1 low on each suit. Those should be enough, but if it isn't the nuclear option is 3) Downgrade Scout's light weapon to a sidearm slot, which would make my ScR/BP combo obsolete, but the option is still there. Unfortunetly your #3 is not currently possible, do remember that shotgun is a light weapon still, which is why many people are talking about adding an M slot so that we have 4 types of weapons, side arm, light, medium, heavy. #2 while this sounds good, like it would solve the problem I don't think it would, scouts have a regen to the suits now, least the Gallente does which is in essence an extra low slot, so people would instantly complain and want that back similar to when logis had that. They also have better speed, radar, and are harder to detect, with a smaller hit box, so all that you would be doing is equalling the stats between scout and assault suit currently. #1 As explained with the #2 scouts are better in all fields or least most of them, the assault suit just is in a very bad place right now and needs to be entirely worked over again. The assault suit is becoming less common then heavies or logis, as both of these have far better survivability. ^Generally true and accurate. The Heavy is being pushed farther into use by the current scout cloak situation due to it's high eHP and close range DPS allowing a higher likelihood of surviving an encounter with a decloaking scout. One clarification I do have to make however is that support logi, those who actually run full loadouts of proto equipment, are both slower and squisher than assault suits. Cheers, Cross I can vouch for that statement (see underlined). If assaults get buffed too much logis won't be able to defend themselves against anything. As for the Dev question... The answer is simple... Remove scouts light weapon and ability to equip REs,but in exchange give them a 200% hack speed increase. Give scouts intel kill assist points for passively scanned enemies that their squad kills. This would solve a majority of the problems.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 221	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:39:00 - [20] - Quote Don't know enough to say anything relating to brick tanking scouts and the like. However, I DO regard the "squad sharing" passive scan a bug. This was removed when Active Scanners was reworked (which made them useful), and the current scout mechanic totally negates this change. If a scout wants to relay intel to the squad, he should have to mark them with a active scanner as everybody else. (Just my 2 ISK)

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2042	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:59:00 - [21] - Quote I feel the concern with frontal attacks from cloaked scouts is likely the easiest to solve. Introducing a short but noticeable delay between cloaking and being able to fire your weapon would help overcome the graphical glitch as well as make scouts think about when and where they decloak (in front of someone being sub-ideal). Making the cloaking skill reduce this delay would also incentive players to make more of an SP investment to optimize their cloak rather than simply training to it to level one like a large number of players do. The issue of brick tanking is a little more tricky and I think there are a couple of things at work here: High Base speed allows for scouts to counteract the negative effects of heavy plating. While I don't think messing with the speed of the scouts or the HP/speed reduction of armor plates is the right choice since that will have a cascading effect on other suits and we dont want to open that can of worms. I think tweaking the resources of scouts in order to make fitting standard plates more difficult would be the most balanced approach. In addition, ferroscale and reactive plates should be made easier to fit in order to encourage their use on scouts. Tanking a scout should be possible, but not to a point where they exceed the defensive abilities of an Assault. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Eko Sol Strange Playings 322	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:07:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. I relatively succesfully run my min-scout with 1 complex prec enhancer, 2 complex shields, complex kinkat, complex reactive, complex dampener. I must admit I get annoyed that I put 8 bursts at over 90% efficacy and a scout still has almost all or all of it's armor. I think the shield recharge delay should be higher on scouts than it is....maybe increase delay by 20%. I think armor is fine. The only other option is that all plates lose 10% on scouts because they immediately become "light" plates or "light" shield enhancers since it is a light suit. That will force scout players to actually play scout and not this crazy logi/scout/slayer type thing that it is now. I don't know. Only a few scouts give me issues but I run a speciailized suit thats meant to pick my opponents. And a lot of brick tanked scouts show up on my tacnet so I get the jump on them anyway with the prec enhancer. You can also move the buffs from 5 percent to 3 percent. The math works out to make it so it's helpful but you still need to supplement. Seeing basic Gal scouts with a 60% dampening (Module, Passive, and core skill passive) is BS, IMO. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Oswald Rehnquist 1364	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:15:00 - [23] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: [ Unfortunetly your #3 is not currently possible, do remember that shotgun is a light weapon still, which is why many people are talking about adding an M slot so that we have 4 types of weapons, side arm, light, medium, heavy. #2 while this sounds good, like it would solve the problem I don't think it would, scouts have a regen to the suits now, least the Gallente does which is in essence an extra low slot, so people would instantly complain and want that back similar to when logis had that. They also have better speed, radar, and are harder to detect, with a smaller hit box, so all that you would be doing is equalling the stats between scout and assault suit currently. #1 As explained with the #2 scouts are better in all fields or least most of them, the assault suit just is in a very bad place right now and needs to be entirely worked over again. The assault suit is becoming less common then heavies or logis, as both of these have far better survivability. 3 is possible (I also did mention it as a last resort as well), just because its hard to shallow doesn't make it impossible. Light weapon + Cloak is in fact very unique to this game, as in having the best weapon selection and the ability to cloak in a pvp game. With EVE recon ship cloaks take up a weapon slot (high slot), or Ps2 the utility based cloak only allows sidearms usage, or Shadow Fall were cloak units can only use knives when cloaked. The ability to have the same offensive utility as your assaults and the ability to cloak is a very powerful combination. Also 1 & 2 are to be in conjunction with each other. "scouts have a regen to the suits now", yes and I think it would be a good idea to swap those innate numbers with the assault regen numbers, thus scouts not having high innate regen, making assaults better at regeneration by default. Also more module slots would help assaults improve their versatility and ehp. These changes would be sufficient with keeping assaults viable. Below 28 dB
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 757	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:46:00 - [24] - Quote A lot of people are saying buff the assault suits because they're underperforming. But in reality, all medium frame suits are under performing, not just assault suits. Cloaks: They shouldn't provide a dampening bonus. The dampening bonus makes countering cloaks with detection even more difficult. As Judge pointed out in one of his Youtube videos(1,2), the cloak is a good stealth and frontal assault tool. Should cloaks be a tool for stealth and frontal assault? Ask yourselves that when re-balancing cloaks. Being able to fire a few shots off before de-cloaking is incredibly powerful. With the few shots fired before de-cloaking, the target will be near dead if not dead. And yes this matters because not all cloaked players engage from behind; as some of you use to reason that this issue is nonfactor. Bugs! A couple things in game aren't very reliable in game due to bugs; the cloak is no exception. Sometimes cloaked players running at full speed will shimmer, other times they wont shimmer at all. Scout Racial Roles: The only scout suit which has a scouting related ability is the Caldari scout. The Minmatar scout is a hacker suited for guerrilla warfare. The Gallente scout is an infiltrator. And the Amarr scout is a light assault with an odd stamina bonus. Many say that the most powerful scouts are the Gallente and Caldari scout suits due to their E-war related bonuses. But this is really part of a greater E-war issue that effects every suit and vehicle in game. Iron Wolf Saber should know something about it. E-war(passive detection, active detection, stealth, radar range, etc.) needs an overhaul. Medium frame EHP is not medium
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 149	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:51:00 - [25] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Require users to manually deactivate; solve the "fire-from-cloak" problem. * Addresses the biggest issue with cloak * Discourages "surprise" frontal assaults * Encourages old-school scoutly tactics Alternative: Accelerate decloak animation speed (if possible). Terrible idea, making it an inconvenience to use would just discourage people from using it all together. Your alternative idea sounds fantastic, a combination of little changes like this would easily put cloaks in a more balanced position, to cloak should also be a bit longer, it currently takes as long to cloak as it does to decloak which doesn't seem right.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 149	Posted - 2014.05.18 07:07:00 - [26] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Cloak needs to lose the profile damp when activated. The extra damp essentially frees up a low slot so it's easy to be damped out, cloaked as well as have free slots for tanking. Aside from that, the fact that +hp modules are a lot more attractive when a) your base hp is so low, and b) you have copious amounts of speed and shield regen to sacrifice in the name of tank c) you have stupid amounts of fitting room left then you can see why it's tempting to say 'screw assaults, imma making a slayer scout instead'. (note that I'm okay with scout ak.0 being the light assault suit) IMO, revisiting how armour modules work will also radically change how armour scouts are fit and it's probably premature to adjust too much yet. What you propose would quite the radical change and doesn't seem to factor in the problems Minjas are currently facing involving fitting req, I get what you're saying though, it shouldn't be this easy for most Scouts to tank and be stealthy at the same time. But that freed up low slot is damn well necessary for us Minjas.
Francois Sanchez What The French Academie 17	Posted - 2014.05.18 08:28:00 - [27] - Quote To make the brick tank scout disappear, just make the armor plates fitting impossible on scouts because they're too heavy for their suit, only allow ferroscales and reactive plates (hence you need to modify a bit ferroscale and reactive plates, have a look at the armor modules thread). And also, I think the gallente scout has too much PG.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 149	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:10:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Since mostly everyone seems more interested about Scout changes than actually answering your question I'll give this a try. To start, I feel the best way to balance the cloak is to give them a series of minor changes too how they currently function, 1. Shorter decloak time 2. A subtle noise should be emitted when active 3. Shields don't recharge while cloaked It's the little things that make a difference, while on the topic of "little things" I also think we should have Cloak variants that not only different stats but also act differently, example a cloak with lower PG/CPU drain but has no Damp bonus and has a persistent shimmer effect , this is just an example of what could be. As for Scouts skill bonus wise, there in a pretty good place with Amarr being the exception, but this is cause the other scouts cover every area of stealth/EWAR leaving the A-Scout in some sort of Assault/Scout limbo, looking at it's stats one can tell its made for fighting, it should get a bonus to support combat, -X% too weapon fitting cost, the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked (I don't think anyone would really like that for balance reasons, this is just an idea.), or some sort of innate ability that either buffs allies or debuffs enemies. Examples, the Amarr Scout could have some sort of passive disruptor that mess with enemies HUD(Or just their radar if that's too much), or a passive signature field where all allies within the A-Scouts radar range inherit the Scout's radar signature. Compared to the other Scouts the Amarr lacks any form of team synergy with it's bonus skill which is really holding it back as it lacks any serious edge in direct combat or for tactical support.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 237	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:35:00 - [29] - Quote In eve ships decloak if another ship gets to close. If this happened in dust cloaks wouldn't work in the tight fights close in with many players.Even a blue could decloak you. Also make Cloak grenade with decloaks players, Just take a Flux Grenade and make it darn cloak shield.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 441	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:41:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. I don't use the cloak at all, but I don't see why people call it overpowered. I can see cloaked players even while they are standing still, often catching THEM off-guard because they trust their cloak too much. Personally, I think it's completely underpowered and clumsy to use due to the interface. I mean, it's not like we have large FOVs in which a cloaked player could hide. Your field of view is so focused that you can easily detect them. The biggest bonus of cloaking is the profile reduction. That little chevron is far more important to detecting another player than seeing them visually, because most attacks will be from your blind spot due to low FOV.

Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 237	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:52:00 - [31] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. I don't use the cloak at all, but I don't see why people call it overpowered. I can see cloaked players even while they are standing still, often catching THEM off-guard because they trust their cloak too much. Personally, I think it's completely underpowered and clumsy to use due to the interface. I mean, it's not like we have large FOVs in which a cloaked player could hide. Your field of view is so focused that you can easily detect them. The biggest bonus of cloaking is the profile reduction. That little chevron is far more important to detecting another player than seeing them visually, because most attacks will be from your blind spot due to low FOV. Please tell us when you see them what is the suit you have on and what skills do you have that mod that suit.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 443	Posted - 2014.05.18 10:21:00 - [32] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: Please tell us when you see them what is the suit you have on and what skills do you have that mod that suit. Currently I'm on my Minmatar alt. I'm using the Starter Frontline frame with CR, Breach SMG, Nanite Injector and two shield extenders and a Damage mod, if I remember correctly. I've met at least a dozen cloaked scouts in the last two days. I do not use any kind of sensory modules and have, in fact, not even skilled into that direction. I'm still at lvl 2 of Medium suits. This character currently sits at 600,000 SP or so and most of my skills went into unlocking non-militia modules. I have a hard time killing cloaked users with this fit, because I'm not used to burst weapons and it feels weird to have auto-aim in addition to a barely visible target with this setup. It's easier on my Gallente with 10,000,000 SP, where I use ARs and thus have full auto, which allows for steadier movement of my aim. I play all three weight classes as Gallente, but mostly a Commando with AR and Shotgun. The best hiding place for a cloaked scout is in the muzzle flash of my gun. That's the only time when I lose track of them. And using that opportunity to run around me is clever play. It would be sad if scouts couldn't even do that. I often die to shotguns from nowhere, but that's not because of cloak. It's because most of the area around me is a blind spot and the sound system prioritizes the announcer, instead of footsteps of enemies and the like. As a Commando, the profile reduction doesn't even matter in that situation. Same for Medium suits. However, as a scout I definitely catch uncloaked enemies more easily than cloaked, which is because of profile reduction and not visibility. Oh and I'm also near-sighted and have my TV positioned at a distance that prevents me from seeing with full clarity. And I play both on a ****** TV that can only output 1080i, as well as an awesome Samsung 3DTV with all the bells and whistles. The latter has far better sound, though, which would be helpful if you could actually hear the footstepts of enemies.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 520	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:16:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Here's a copy&paste from a different thread where I accidentally addressed this specific question: Stefan Stahl wrote: Personally, my favorite way out of this situation [uselessness of the Amarr Scout] is drastically reducing the maximum duration of cloaks to 5 seconds at STD and 10 seconds at PRO while keeping a 60 seconds recharge time. This means as a Scout you can't be invisible "by default" but will have to think about when you are going to use the cloak. Then grant the Amarr Scout a 10% bonus per level to recharge speed (for a 33% reduction in cooldown at lvl 5, equals to 15 second less time between activations) to make it the invisibility specialist. After that roles would go like this: - Caldari Scout can pick up everyone on his radar, even if they see him too. - Gallente Scout can't be detected by scanning, but can't scan very well himself. - Minmatar Scout avoids detection by running from your line of sight very quickly. (The faster you are, the less time you spend in places where people may look.) - Amarr Scout avoids detection by not being visible to the eye, even if he does appear on other people's minimap while uncloaked. When a Scout can only be cloaked 1/6th of the time I think I'd be alright with the dampening bonus staying the way it is. Right now, since you're almost always cloaked as a scout, this equals a free profile dampener. For reference: I used to play GalScout from December 2013 until the release of 1.8. Back then I thought being a Scout was easy. These days I think it's just a cheap tactic. P.S.: Here's a thought I just had that may need some discussion: Maybe Caldari and Gallente Scouts should be reduced to one scanning bonus each. Either have additional range or receive a profile/precision bonus, not both. These are two very useful modules a GalScout receives for free at level 5.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 716	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:47:00 - [34] - Quote The only problem I personally see with the cloak is the ability to fire off rounds before the user has even decloaked. I think you can get one or two shotgun rounds out, for example, before the cloak even disengages. Fix this and that would put the cloak in a much better position just with that small change.
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 22	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:14:00 - [35] - Quote Well they are a lot of good opinions and today is my forum day so i will write you one on my own. I liked the idea to remove the dampening from cloaks. It will help a bit the useless gal logi scanners. Another thought I have in my empty head is remove the invisibility but keep the dampening. Any scout will be invisible for all the scanners while cloaked with only one complex dampener will have 17.7 profile. The best scanner in gal logi hands has precision of 15 but needs 40min recharge and visibility is only 7.5 sec, and costs 30K ISK. Most used proto scanner will be the CreoDron which in gallente logi hands has precision 21. So it is very useful to have armored scout with cloak but not invisibility. I remember prior 1.7 there were many great scouts doing excellent job with less slots and no invisibility. So in 1.8 scouts got one more slot for modules, additional equipment slot, reduced profile and precision, and the OP invisibility. that's why there are no assault suits. I think just getting rid of the invisibility from the cloak and making the base scout profile 40 will do the job. A scout (not gallente) with complex dampener and activated cloak will have profile 20.25 which will hide him from almost anything but the most expensive proto scanner. Second thing the active scanners need to be better than the passive. We invested SP and money in them, they have short visibility and long recharge. The Duvolle Focused Active Scanner, which costs 30K isk must be able to catch even gal scout with one complex dampener and activated cloak. With no invisibility many scouts will play again assaults and only the real scouts that don't need invisibility will stay scouts. DonGÇÖt change the versatility of the game by removing the possibility to make armored scout. Just do it in the right way as I posted in another thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2167348#post2167348
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 770	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:38:00 - [36] - Quote Cardio Therapy wrote: I remember prior 1.7 there were many great scouts doing excellent job with less slots and no invisibility. The opposite of this statement is true. Aggregate Scout performance for each and every build between 1.0 and 1.7 either declined on or held steady (source below). Sep KDR Histogram July-Sep KDR Trendline Saying things like "great scouts did great" is incorrect. Some Scouts did well by comparison to other Scouts, but no Scouts did well by comparison to other frames, except for a handful of Scout Snipers. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1731	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:41:00 - [37] - Quote Why not give a something like a three second delay after decloaking where you cannot perform any action other than move? Or make it six seconds and reduce cloak fitting requirements so that any suit can fit a cloak, while giving scouts a 50% delay reduction role bonus. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1055	Posted - 2014.05.18 16:10:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Cloaks lessen the meta of ewar interplay. Due to the fact that cloaks have a free non-stacking-penalized complex dampener built-in, the value of fitting precision enhancers and scanners is lessened. Without that free cmplx dampener, the range of fits with enhancers/scanners widens as more suits fit into different tiers of signature, meaning that someone sacrificing in order to scan can pick up suits that are not optimized for dampening. With this extra free non-stacking-penalized dampening that the cloak provides, once a scout fit a complex damp there is very little that non-caldari-scouts can do inorder to detect them. In effect 2 modules on non-bonused suits can neutralize 3-4 modules and an entire category of equipment from contention. This eliminates variety in fits, and playtype possibilities. Fixing swarms
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2424	Posted - 2014.05.18 16:15:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. The cloak is something that is constantly going to be complained about. It is another Sniper Rifle topic. There are people on these forums that want them to be balanced and will provide constructive and evidence based reasoning to what should be changed. However there are more people that just want it gone because they don't like it when someone uses it against them. The cloak has 2 problems right now. 1) It is a tool for camping. You are only invisible when you do not move. People want something that lets them travel across the terrible maps DUST 514 has where there's a 100m or more in between objectives and cover. You need to be at least 150-200m away before you become invisible for the purpose of crossing terrain. . . this is because of the terrible rendering of the game and no innate mechanic to the cloak. 2) It is an active dampener. As long Gallente Logistics with a Focused Scanner or Caldari Scouts with 4 complex precision enhancers can get bellow 16db the cloak is necessary for Caldari and Minmatar Scouts to be undetectable to scanning. DUST 514 went from having shared team vision to shared passive vision. The Active Scanner was improperly "rebalanced" and took away DUST 514's trademark wall hack. [Passive Scan Table] These are good things, however there will always be complaints about them because "camping is for [insert any derogatory term]!" And people want their wall hacks. It's not fair that someone can sneak up on me! The only problem with the cloak is swapping to a weapon to disengage. You can fire before the de-cloak animation is finished. I don't know what the cloak looks like in 480p but in 720p it is very easy to see when someone is moving. It would be really nice to see variants on the cloak that were for moving across distances undetected, but the current cloaks should stay with their mechanic (minus the de-cloak problem) Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Doyle Reese OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 474	Posted - 2014.05.18 16:50:00 - [40] - Quote As a scout, I feel that it is currently unnecessary to have anything more than a Basic Cloak, just change the cloak skills and cloak to: Cloaking (Skill) - +10% bonus to Cloak Duration per level Basic Cloak Field 20 second duration, 10% reduction to Scan Profile when active Advanced Cloak Field 20 second duration, 15% reduction to Scan Profile when active Prototype Cloak Field 20 second duration, 25% reduction to Scan Proifle when active 30 second duration at level 5

Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 96	Posted - 2014.05.18 17:41:00 - [41] - Quote I agree with the proposal to increase the delay between decloaking and firing to prevent frontal assault, surprise firing whilst still cloaked. Other than that I am strongly against any other changes to cloaks. Please do not mess with the dampening bonus. The scanning meta is quite finely balanced. The cloak dampening adds some much needed uncertainty to the whole thing. Removing the damp bonus would be a large nerf to min and amarr scouts who already struggle to compete with Cal and Gal scouts. I use many more dampeners on my min scout now than I ever did in 1.7. The best solutions to brick Gal scouts are all dealt with in the armour tanking changes feedback sticky thread. Like, for example, giving scouts increased movement penalties for equiping plates. The best solution for bringing Cal and Gal scouts in line with other suits (apart from the plate stacking problem mentioned above) was posted by I-Shayz-I in general discussion. He suggests changing their bonus to a % increase in effectiveness of scanning/dampening modules rather than just straight bonuses like we have now. This would mean they would have to actually equip the modules in order to benefit. I particularly like this idea.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 83	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:02:00 - [42] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak. A suggestion in another thread was to make armour plating (and potentially shield extenders) percentage based. An example of this would be the following: Let's say that complex armour plates offer 80% more armour to your suit, instead of a fixed 148.5 HP (1351.1) Single Plate Values: -- Gallente Scout has 130 armour HP by default. , which equates to 234 armour -- Gallente Logi has 180 armour HP by default, which equates to 324 armour -- Gallente Assault has 210 armour HP by default. which equates to 378 armour -- Gellente Sentinel has 525 armour HP by default, which equates to 945 armour Proto Suit Values When Fully Stacked: -- Gallente Scout > 546 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (32.5), 578.5 maximum armour HP* -- Gallente Logi > 900 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (45), 945 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Assault > 882 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (52.5), 934.5 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Sentinel > 2,025 armour, +25% of the default armour HP form the Armour Skill (131.25), 2,156.25 armour HP ... it may be wise to introduce a stacking penalty Estimated Penalty Values: -- 1st plate: 80%, 2nd plate: 70%, 3rd plate: 55%, 4th plate: 25%, 5th plate: 8% Armour HP Values When Using the Above Penalty With Fully Stacked Proto Suits: -- Gallente Scout > 1st plate: 104 HP, 2nd plate: 91 HP, 3rd plate: 71.5 HP, 4th plate: 32.5 HP Total HP: 429, +Armour Skill, 461.5 maximum armour HP. -- Gallente Logi > 1st plate: 144 HP, 2nd plate: 126 HP, 3rd plate: 99 HP, 4th plate: 45 HP, 5th plate: 14.4 HP Total HP: 608.4, +Armour Skill, 653.4 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Assault > 1st plate: 168 HP, 2nd plate: 147 HP, 3rd plate: 115.5 HP, 4th plate: 52.5 HP Total HP: 547, +Armour Skill, 599.5 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Sentinel > 1st plate: 420 HP, 2nd plate: 367.5 HP, 3rd plate: 288.75 HP, 131.25 HP Total HP: 1,732.5, +Armour Skill, 1,863.75 maximum armour HP Not too sure how I feel about this... that Gallente Sentinal Edit: perhaps it would work without the stacking penalties, and just reduced the default Gellente Sentinal's armour HP, which is 525, to about 400 HP.
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 96	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:07:00 - [43] - Quote Temias Mercurial -- Gallente Sentinel: 1st plate: 420 HP, 2nd plate: 367.5 HP, 3rd plate: 288.75 HP, 131.25 HP [b wrote: Total HP: 1, 732.5, +Armour Skill, 1,863.75 maximum armour HP[/b] Not too sure how I feel about this... that Gallente Sentinal It might be possible if sentinel suit base armour was reduced. Though this would kind of force them to use plates, which would be a shame. It might be better to target the movement penalty for plates on different suits to balance plate usage on light suits.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 83	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:19:00 - [44] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Temias Mercurial -- Gallente Sentinel: 1st plate: 420 HP, 2nd plate: 367.5 HP, 3rd plate: 288.75 HP, 131.25 HP [b wrote: Total HP: 1, 732.5, +Armour Skill, 1,863.75 maximum armour HP[/b] Not too sure how I feel about this... that Gallente Sentinal It might be possible if sentinel suit base armour was reduced. Though this would kind of force them to use plates, which would be a shame. It might be better to target the movement penalty for plates on different suits to balance plate usage on light suits. True, I did just edit it to say that it may be better to have the default armoud HP of the Gallente Sentinel reduced form 525, to about 400. Movement penalties do not make a fun game, but a tanked Gallente Scout is just as slow as other tanked suits, the only noticeable difference is stamina regen, which isn't too significant when you're already crawling along the ground. Also, I rarely see non-tanked Heavies, the term "Sentinel" describes their purpose perfectly, as a guardian, immovable wall, or fortress. I also play Minmatar Sentinel, which is insanely fun to use, and can take on others when strafing around or running away, which is only viable with the Minamtar with it's speed and near instant stamina regen. I think that it would work fine to reduce the default armour HP. Also, a logi with a decent rep negates the absolute necessity of having to be completely tanked out.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2147	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:44:00 - [45] - Quote Cloak need the same delay of the PLC after it shots and you have to change weapon. Not too much, but enough annoying to make you visibile before you shoot your first round. PSN: ogamega I'm here to bla bla bla...
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1562	Posted - 2014.05.18 19:37:00 - [46] - Quote Doyle Reese wrote: As a scout, I feel that it is currently unnecessary to have anything more than a Basic Cloak, just change the cloak skills and cloak to: Cloaking (Skill) - +10% bonus to Cloak Duration per level Basic Cloak Field 20 second duration, 10% reduction to Scan Profile when active Advanced Cloak Field 20 second duration, 15% reduction to Scan Profile when active Prototype Cloak Field 20 second duration, 25% reduction to Scan Proifle when active 30 second duration at level 5 This is fine if you only need the cloak for 10 seconds, and have another 5 to 10 to wait for it to recharge, however if you were a hacking scout (like a minja), and spend much of you effort traipsing across large maps to get past enemy lines and hack undefended targets to change the tide of battle, I assure you that you need ever second you can get. Otherwise, it ends up just like pre-cloak days when an AR/CR/RR user just spots you out of the corner of their eye and guns you down 100 m out. Nothing like spending 5 minutes crossing the entire map to give your team a chance only to have that and a suit wasted because you were merely unlucky. Maybe a slight reduction, but no more than 10 seconds on ADV and PROTO. Otherwise you relegate the cloak to a combat/flanking only tool. "I've made a huge mistake." -G.O.B. Bluth
Feedeesex Venezuela CORP ELITE Caps and Mercs 74	Posted - 2014.05.19 03:11:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. The Gallente are not the only problem, Caldari Also, just as the Gallente become extremely invisible, the Caldari can get to see everything, rethink that the Caldari and Gallente, Amar is the least used because their bonus is useless PD: I use google translator because my dev forum not found, please note my comment.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 960	Posted - 2014.05.19 08:08:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Honestly Its hard to believe, I still encounter at least the same amount of shield tanked caldari scouts, when I play. IF I encounter scouts these days the suit I see the most is either a heavy or a logi behind a heavy....
Ground Zero420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2014.05.19 09:25:00 - [49] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Gallante scouts ? really? how about the cal scouts hit detection. My heavy loses 450 shield like it's chump change, yet cal scouts can take an entire clip before losing their glitchy shields? If a player wants to tank hp instead of using electronic warfare it should be allowed.Hence the open sandbox theme we have here. Their already hindered by brick tanking by losing speed and maneuverability. balderdash. Spartan mk420
Jackal OfxThe Kilrathi Myrmidon Syndicate 5	Posted - 2014.05.19 09:50:00 - [50] - Quote I play a galscout and it pains me to say this but i think that scouts should not have To equipment slots and a SideArm. If you think about it there scouts so how are they carrying all of this stuff. Or maybe they should be limited on what kind of equipment they can have. If they could only carry cloaks scanners and drop up links this would make the Logistics suit a more vital role. Trust me there's nothing I love more than sneaking up on people and blowing them up with remote explosives. But as a scout I don't think I should also be a demolition expert. If I want to blow things up I should have to put on my Logistics suit. Another thing that I heard somebody suggest is only giving the scout two sidearms instead of a light weapon. Which to me would really suck not running around with my mass driver. But this would push the Slayers back into assault suits. Leaving the scout to do what it was intended. Patiently waiting to kill a Drone

NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 435	Posted - 2014.05.19 12:14:00 - [51] - Quote Honeslty, The attack while decloaking I never see as a problem as per they originally wanted the ability to fire while cloaked. Not being able to detect the Gallente scout is really annoying, it seams like most Scouts that are not camping a uplink or objective are easy enough to see with the shimmer effect. It seams like some scouts can glitch themselves to side to side all my bullets as there bodies appear to jump in weird locations but this is more to due with netcode or crappy internet. I been watching my game replays and haven't seen any great scouts. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!


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