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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Oswald Rehnquist
1351
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Posted - 2014.05.16 16:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
The delay before shooting is good in whatever form, I personally favor the time delay more so than a manual deactivate delay but this works too. This should also be done before any changes to see how this works in conjunction with a much needed assault buff.
As fun as the cloak is, I do miss my old scout tactics, a "bumping" range or minimal distance before you become visible would be interesting mechanic that would actually make the last bit of closing in feel more challenging.
While I am not saying action should be put behind this next thought, but I'd make the argument that
Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom
In other games, having a cloak usually takes away your firepower, which is how the "true front liner" competes with it. This is done in Eve where cloaks (have a time delay) require the same slots as weapons, in KZ SF where you can only use a knife while cloak, in Ps2 were the utility cloak (25% reduction to profile) only allows the equipping of sidearms, etc.
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Oswald Rehnquist
1363
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Posted - 2014.05.18 00:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning.
There is going to be a thousand opinions on this, so make this 1001.
First just to state what aren't problems
1) Racial roles are not the problem. We've had similar stats with the old gal scout, when scouts were unpopular. Thus with the high percentage of medium frames pre 1.8, no precision was needed for scouts to still maintain their 360 vision. In fact many scouts didn't even max precision due to how useless it was as the base was enough to catch 90% of players.
2) The dampening on the cloak isn't the problem, most people who now play scouts, they don't even throw on a damp or precision mod, they are assault suits donning the scout suit. The cloak dampening bonus just works like a scout submarine warfare between scouts, and has no effect between scouts and non scouts.
These are the problems, as I quote myself for the third time
Quote:Assaults vs Scouts
Assaults over scouts -
+1 module
+130ish more ehp
Scouts over assaults -
-15 Signature -10 Precision +10 Scan Radius
+30-40% better Regen, only marginally faster .2-.5
+10-50 more cpu and 5-14 pg
+1 Equipment slot
+15% stamina +50% more stam regen
+10% hacking
And this is assuming that all racial abilities are equal, since you can't really compare racials 1:1
Which translates into the informal equation of
Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom
There have been dozens of threads on this,
This one is the most intelligent and is filled with the most pre 1.8 scout input.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=149208
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Oswald Rehnquist
1363
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough.
It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak.
I agree with this 100%, it was also one of the reasons why I had a "these aren't the problem" section, but there is still the problem between scouts and assaults. Fixing modules still leaves the issue that assaults are lacking in better innate stat or slot layout.
Again, I very much like the simplification this presents
Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom
To properly punch out some of these discrepancies, we have two tools, stats and slots.
We also have to option to power creep the assault or shave down the scout.
I'd suggest the following,
1) first swap scout and assault regen stats, a high regen encourages brick tanking else regen is wasted. And since cloaking is the scouts utility form of defense/offense, a low regen value is adequate on a scout suit, and it will give the assault user who can't hide some staying / trench holding power.
2) Give the assault +1 high and +1 low on each suit.
Those should be enough, but if it isn't the nuclear option is
3) Downgrade Scout's light weapon to a sidearm slot, which would make my ScR/BP combo obsolete, but the option is still there.
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Oswald Rehnquist
1364
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Posted - 2014.05.18 06:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
lithkul devant wrote:[
Unfortunetly your #3 is not currently possible, do remember that shotgun is a light weapon still, which is why many people are talking about adding an M slot so that we have 4 types of weapons, side arm, light, medium, heavy.
#2 while this sounds good, like it would solve the problem I don't think it would, scouts have a regen to the suits now, least the Gallente does which is in essence an extra low slot, so people would instantly complain and want that back similar to when logis had that. They also have better speed, radar, and are harder to detect, with a smaller hit box, so all that you would be doing is equalling the stats between scout and assault suit currently.
#1 As explained with the #2 scouts are better in all fields or least most of them, the assault suit just is in a very bad place right now and needs to be entirely worked over again. The assault suit is becoming less common then heavies or logis, as both of these have far better survivability.
3 is possible (I also did mention it as a last resort as well), just because its hard to shallow doesn't make it impossible. Light weapon + Cloak is in fact very unique to this game, as in having the best weapon selection and the ability to cloak in a pvp game. With EVE recon ship cloaks take up a weapon slot (high slot), or Ps2 the utility based cloak only allows sidearms usage, or Shadow Fall were cloak units can only use knives when cloaked. The ability to have the same offensive utility as your assaults and the ability to cloak is a very powerful combination.
Also 1 & 2 are to be in conjunction with each other. "scouts have a regen to the suits now", yes and I think it would be a good idea to swap those innate numbers with the assault regen numbers, thus scouts not having high innate regen, making assaults better at regeneration by default. Also more module slots would help assaults improve their versatility and ehp. These changes would be sufficient with keeping assaults viable.
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