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[Suggestion] On Tweaking Cloak

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Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 691	Posted - 2014.05.16 13:22:00 - [1] - Quote Disable auto-toggle on item swap. Doing so will require cloak users to deactivate manually in advance of engagement. This will fix the "fire-from-cloak" problem.
Oswald Rehnquist 1351	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:03:00 - [2] - Quote The delay before shooting is good in whatever form, I personally favor the time delay more so than a manual deactivate delay but this works too. This should also be done before any changes to see how this works in conjunction with a much needed assault buff. As fun as the cloak is, I do miss my old scout tactics, a "bumping" range or minimal distance before you become visible would be interesting mechanic that would actually make the last bit of closing in feel more challenging. While I am not saying action should be put behind this next thought, but I'd make the argument that Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom In other games, having a cloak usually takes away your firepower, which is how the "true front liner" competes with it. This is done in Eve where cloaks (have a time delay) require the same slots as weapons, in KZ SF where you can only use a knife while cloak, in Ps2 were the utility cloak (25% reduction to profile) only allows the equipping of sidearms, etc. Below 28 dB
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 82	Posted - 2014.05.16 17:15:00 - [3] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Require users to manually deactivate; solve the "fire-from-cloak" problem. * Addresses the biggest issue with cloak * Discourages "surprise" frontal assaults * Encourages old-school scoutly tactics Alternative: Accelerate decloak animation speed (if possible). Manual activation can be buggy, as remote explosives do not always detonate when they should, and screws you over when pressing that button 2-3 more times. Just reduce the time of the decloak animation or remove it completely. I find nothing wrong with this as a mainly scout player. Also, there are no "suprise" frontal assaults, anyone can see you and obliterate you if you're standing in front of them, cloaked or not. The only time where cloaks are "invisible" is when the background behind them is immensely bright, and darker locations, like the inside of buildings, reveals cloaks very easily. Funny as to how it's the reverse ninja when you think about it... hiding in the shadows is actually a bad idea, as the light will conceal you better.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 713	Posted - 2014.05.16 20:20:00 - [4] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Require users to manually deactivate; solve the "fire-from-cloak" problem. * Addresses the biggest issue with cloak * Discourages "surprise" frontal assaults * Encourages old-school scoutly tactics Alternative: Accelerate decloak animation speed (if possible). Manual activation can be buggy, as remote explosives do not always detonate when they should, and screws you over when pressing that button 2-3 more times. Just reduce the time of the decloak animation or remove it completely. I find nothing wrong with this as a mainly scout player. Also, there are no "suprise" frontal assaults, anyone can see you and obliterate you if you're standing in front of them, cloaked or not. The only time where cloaks are "invisible" is when the background behind them is immensely bright, and darker locations, like the inside of buildings, reveals cloaks very easily. Funny as to how it's the reverse ninja when you think about it... hiding in the shadows is actually a bad idea, as the light will conceal you better. One of Judge's videos demonstrates what I mean by a cloaked frontal assault, which very much exists. I believe he referred to it as first mover advantage or some such. Agreed on all other points; ideally, decloak could happen instantly, and partial visibility could be removed from the equation.
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 186	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:52:00 - [5] - Quote Bump. Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1151	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:35:00 - [6] - Quote Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1224	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:44:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Yes, yes it is. Last few PCs I've played, the only salavage has been Gallente Scouts... Its the simple fact that they can become pure invisible to even their counters (Gal Logi or Cal Scout), while, if you don't see those on the enemy team, you can be invisible to everyone and still have a lot of health. You can't up the power of the counters (my Minmatar Scout already can't hide from them when they are barely using Precision mods as is), so, looking at the Gal is needed. Someone's idea of a bonus to the module (instead of a blanket bonus) seemed interesting, but, that's for other people to discuss. I think I'm over Dust now...
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 750	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:45:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Subject matter experts on the topic live here, should you ever wish to query the Scout Community. IWS is another reliable source of information; he did an excellent job moderating early conversation on the topic here. I'm not surprised to see that brick-tanked GalScouts leading in popularity. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1541	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:09:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. My notion as a minja has been that given the absolute need to reduce profile due to squishiness (a consequence of fitting capacity), is that the cloak is practically necessary as an active profile dampener. Otherwise, I would light up like a Christmas tree, and there is no possible way I would be able to take anyone, even other scouts, on head up. That is also why you don't see many minjas. "I've made a huge mistake." -G.O.B. Bluth
superjoe360x D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 321	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:09:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Please take a look at the Cal scouts hit detection issues also. I get tired of shooting one and only 1 outta every 4 bullets registering. Thanx. Commander, Director of DL and Leader of The SS Elite Squad *FIGHT THE POWER

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 792	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:32:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Cloak needs to lose the profile damp when activated. The extra damp essentially frees up a low slot so it's easy to be damped out, cloaked as well as have free slots for tanking. Aside from that, the fact that +hp modules are a lot more attractive when a) your base hp is so low, and b) you have copious amounts of speed and shield regen to sacrifice in the name of tank c) you have stupid amounts of fitting room left then you can see why it's tempting to say 'screw assaults, imma making a slayer scout instead'. (note that I'm okay with scout ak.0 being the light assault suit) IMO, revisiting how armour modules work will also radically change how armour scouts are fit and it's probably premature to adjust too much yet. Dust/Eve transfers
Oswald Rehnquist 1363	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:50:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. There is going to be a thousand opinions on this, so make this 1001. First just to state what aren't problems 1) Racial roles are not the problem. We've had similar stats with the old gal scout, when scouts were unpopular. Thus with the high percentage of medium frames pre 1.8, no precision was needed for scouts to still maintain their 360 vision. In fact many scouts didn't even max precision due to how useless it was as the base was enough to catch 90% of players. 2) The dampening on the cloak isn't the problem, most people who now play scouts, they don't even throw on a damp or precision mod, they are assault suits donning the scout suit. The cloak dampening bonus just works like a scout submarine warfare between scouts, and has no effect between scouts and non scouts. These are the problems, as I quote myself for the third time Quote: Assaults vs Scouts Assaults over scouts - +1 module +130ish more ehp Scouts over assaults - -15 Signature -10 Precision +10 Scan Radius +30-40% better Regen, only marginally faster .2-.5 +10-50 more cpu and 5-14 pg +1 Equipment slot +15% stamina +50% more stam regen +10% hacking And this is assuming that all racial abilities are equal, since you can't really compare racials 1:1 Which translates into the informal equation of Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom There have been dozens of threads on this, This one is the most intelligent and is filled with the most pre 1.8 scout input. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=149208 Below 28 dB
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1541	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:52:00 - [13] - Quote Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak. "I've made a huge mistake." -G.O.B. Bluth
Oswald Rehnquist 1363	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:11:00 - [14] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak. I agree with this 100%, it was also one of the reasons why I had a "these aren't the problem" section, but there is still the problem between scouts and assaults. Fixing modules still leaves the issue that assaults are lacking in better innate stat or slot layout. Again, I very much like the simplification this presents Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom To properly punch out some of these discrepancies, we have two tools, stats and slots. We also have to option to power creep the assault or shave down the scout. I'd suggest the following, 1) first swap scout and assault regen stats, a high regen encourages brick tanking else regen is wasted. And since cloaking is the scouts utility form of defense/offense, a low regen value is adequate on a scout suit, and it will give the assault user who can't hide some staying / trench holding power. 2) Give the assault +1 high and +1 low on each suit. Those should be enough, but if it isn't the nuclear option is 3) Downgrade Scout's light weapon to a sidearm slot, which would make my ScR/BP combo obsolete, but the option is still there. Below 28 dB
Al the destroyer NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 134	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:31:00 - [15] - Quote If there is a cal scout on the field I can't run my min scout no matter how many profile dampeners I run if you ask me the cal scout and the gal scout need work or you need to buff the HP of the min scout because you don't have enough CPU and pg to shield tank you can't speed tank because every ck scout kills you with a RR and you can't armor tank because all the scouts see you with no profile damp on min scout< all other scouts Still playing having more fun than ever cuz IDGAF.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 218	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:30:00 - [16] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak. I agree with this 100%, it was also one of the reasons why I had a "these aren't the problem" section, but there is still the problem between scouts and assaults. Fixing modules still leaves the issue that assaults are lacking in better innate stat or slot layout. Again, I very much like the simplification this presents Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom To properly punch out some of these discrepancies, we have two tools, stats and slots. We also have to option to power creep the assault or shave down the scout. I'd suggest the following, 1) first swap scout and assault regen stats, a high regen encourages brick tanking else regen is wasted. And since cloaking is the scouts utility form of defense/offense, a low regen value is adequate on a scout suit, and it will give the assault user who can't hide some staying / trench holding power. 2) Give the assault +1 high and +1 low on each suit. Those should be enough, but if it isn't the nuclear option is 3) Downgrade Scout's light weapon to a sidearm slot, which would make my ScR/BP combo obsolete, but the option is still there. Unfortunetly your #3 is not currently possible, do remember that shotgun is a light weapon still, which is why many people are talking about adding an M slot so that we have 4 types of weapons, side arm, light, medium, heavy. #2 while this sounds good, like it would solve the problem I don't think it would, scouts have a regen to the suits now, least the Gallente does which is in essence an extra low slot, so people would instantly complain and want that back similar to when logis had that. They also have better speed, radar, and are harder to detect, with a smaller hit box, so all that you would be doing is equalling the stats between scout and assault suit currently. #1 As explained with the #2 scouts are better in all fields or least most of them, the assault suit just is in a very bad place right now and needs to be entirely worked over again. The assault suit is becoming less common then heavies or logis, as both of these have far better survivability.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2036	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:39:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. The counter to that is becoming brick tanked Cal scouts to pick them up (not commenting on how effective a counter it is, just it's increasing presence in the meta). In general it is my perception that if the only, or best, counter a given asset is the asset itself then there is a balance concern to be addressed. If the cloak effected movement speed as armor plates do in Dust (and as cloaks do in EVE) there would be ways to generate more role specificity. Some scouts could have a reduction to the speed debuff, others could gain faster refresh of the cloak (if that were useful, as it stands most scout fits I'm aware of don't even use the proto version as it's considered unnecessary). If there were a fire delay one race could gain buffs to it's reduction and if they had a 'collision = decloak' mechanic a race could gain buffs which tightened that radius for higher level infiltration. Let me be clear, I think the addition of cloaks to the game is a positive, and I want to see them remain viable on the field, however their current debuffs, decloak mechanics, rates of regen et al combine to make them quite hard to counter. Racial roles for the cloak are a wonderful idea but without more diversity to the mechanics of the cloak itself they will be hard to develop/enhance. The ability to hack while cloaked gives the Min Scout a racial niche. The Cal scout with its passive scans also arguably has a racial niche. The Gal scout is our current combat monster. The Amarr scout is suffering from a sub par racial bonus and being out done by all the areas scouts are defined by. The further problem (much like the CR with regards to the Min Commando) is the RE. Not to be overly simplistic RE + Cloak = Win. As long as the RE can so consistently and quickly OHK nearly every infantry fitting, and can be a more effective AV option than the majority of AV specific weapons, there will continue to be a problem. The most direct fix I can think of is to ensure a larger firing delay after decloaking but that tweak does nothing to create or enhance a niche for each racial variant. As a closing note related to the Gal scout specifically, looking at how likely it is to avoid scans even from Cal Scouts or Gal Logi with Active Scanners is important. If even theoretical detection of a fitting is very low and it can have high eHP as well that fit is going to be and remain highly dominant. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2036	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:43:00 - [18] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak. I agree with this 100%, it was also one of the reasons why I had a "these aren't the problem" section, but there is still the problem between scouts and assaults. Fixing modules still leaves the issue that assaults are lacking in better innate stat or slot layout. Again, I very much like the simplification this presents Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom To properly punch out some of these discrepancies, we have two tools, stats and slots. We also have to option to power creep the assault or shave down the scout. I'd suggest the following, 1) first swap scout and assault regen stats, a high regen encourages brick tanking else regen is wasted. And since cloaking is the scouts utility form of defense/offense, a low regen value is adequate on a scout suit, and it will give the assault user who can't hide some staying / trench holding power. 2) Give the assault +1 high and +1 low on each suit. Those should be enough, but if it isn't the nuclear option is 3) Downgrade Scout's light weapon to a sidearm slot, which would make my ScR/BP combo obsolete, but the option is still there. Unfortunetly your #3 is not currently possible, do remember that shotgun is a light weapon still, which is why many people are talking about adding an M slot so that we have 4 types of weapons, side arm, light, medium, heavy. #2 while this sounds good, like it would solve the problem I don't think it would, scouts have a regen to the suits now, least the Gallente does which is in essence an extra low slot, so people would instantly complain and want that back similar to when logis had that. They also have better speed, radar, and are harder to detect, with a smaller hit box, so all that you would be doing is equalling the stats between scout and assault suit currently. #1 As explained with the #2 scouts are better in all fields or least most of them, the assault suit just is in a very bad place right now and needs to be entirely worked over again. The assault suit is becoming less common then heavies or logis, as both of these have far better survivability. ^Generally true and accurate. The Heavy is being pushed farther into use by the current scout cloak situation due to it's high eHP and close range DPS allowing a higher likelihood of surviving an encounter with a decloaking scout. One clarification I do have to make however is that support logi, those who actually run full loadouts of proto equipment, are both slower and squisher than assault suits. Cheers, Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 781	Posted - 2014.05.18 04:46:00 - [19] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: lithkul devant wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak. I agree with this 100%, it was also one of the reasons why I had a "these aren't the problem" section, but there is still the problem between scouts and assaults. Fixing modules still leaves the issue that assaults are lacking in better innate stat or slot layout. Again, I very much like the simplification this presents Cloak + Scanning + Regen + Best Service Rifle / Shotgun = Vanguard of Doom To properly punch out some of these discrepancies, we have two tools, stats and slots. We also have to option to power creep the assault or shave down the scout. I'd suggest the following, 1) first swap scout and assault regen stats, a high regen encourages brick tanking else regen is wasted. And since cloaking is the scouts utility form of defense/offense, a low regen value is adequate on a scout suit, and it will give the assault user who can't hide some staying / trench holding power. 2) Give the assault +1 high and +1 low on each suit. Those should be enough, but if it isn't the nuclear option is 3) Downgrade Scout's light weapon to a sidearm slot, which would make my ScR/BP combo obsolete, but the option is still there. Unfortunetly your #3 is not currently possible, do remember that shotgun is a light weapon still, which is why many people are talking about adding an M slot so that we have 4 types of weapons, side arm, light, medium, heavy. #2 while this sounds good, like it would solve the problem I don't think it would, scouts have a regen to the suits now, least the Gallente does which is in essence an extra low slot, so people would instantly complain and want that back similar to when logis had that. They also have better speed, radar, and are harder to detect, with a smaller hit box, so all that you would be doing is equalling the stats between scout and assault suit currently. #1 As explained with the #2 scouts are better in all fields or least most of them, the assault suit just is in a very bad place right now and needs to be entirely worked over again. The assault suit is becoming less common then heavies or logis, as both of these have far better survivability. ^Generally true and accurate. The Heavy is being pushed farther into use by the current scout cloak situation due to it's high eHP and close range DPS allowing a higher likelihood of surviving an encounter with a decloaking scout. One clarification I do have to make however is that support logi, those who actually run full loadouts of proto equipment, are both slower and squisher than assault suits. Cheers, Cross I can vouch for that statement (see underlined). If assaults get buffed too much logis won't be able to defend themselves against anything. As for the Dev question... The answer is simple... Remove scouts light weapon and ability to equip REs,but in exchange give them a 200% hack speed increase. Give scouts intel kill assist points for passively scanned enemies that their squad kills. This would solve a majority of the problems.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 221	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:39:00 - [20] - Quote Don't know enough to say anything relating to brick tanking scouts and the like. However, I DO regard the "squad sharing" passive scan a bug. This was removed when Active Scanners was reworked (which made them useful), and the current scout mechanic totally negates this change. If a scout wants to relay intel to the squad, he should have to mark them with a active scanner as everybody else. (Just my 2 ISK)

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2042	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:59:00 - [21] - Quote I feel the concern with frontal attacks from cloaked scouts is likely the easiest to solve. Introducing a short but noticeable delay between cloaking and being able to fire your weapon would help overcome the graphical glitch as well as make scouts think about when and where they decloak (in front of someone being sub-ideal). Making the cloaking skill reduce this delay would also incentive players to make more of an SP investment to optimize their cloak rather than simply training to it to level one like a large number of players do. The issue of brick tanking is a little more tricky and I think there are a couple of things at work here: High Base speed allows for scouts to counteract the negative effects of heavy plating. While I don't think messing with the speed of the scouts or the HP/speed reduction of armor plates is the right choice since that will have a cascading effect on other suits and we dont want to open that can of worms. I think tweaking the resources of scouts in order to make fitting standard plates more difficult would be the most balanced approach. In addition, ferroscale and reactive plates should be made easier to fit in order to encourage their use on scouts. Tanking a scout should be possible, but not to a point where they exceed the defensive abilities of an Assault. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Eko Sol Strange Playings 322	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:07:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. I relatively succesfully run my min-scout with 1 complex prec enhancer, 2 complex shields, complex kinkat, complex reactive, complex dampener. I must admit I get annoyed that I put 8 bursts at over 90% efficacy and a scout still has almost all or all of it's armor. I think the shield recharge delay should be higher on scouts than it is....maybe increase delay by 20%. I think armor is fine. The only other option is that all plates lose 10% on scouts because they immediately become "light" plates or "light" shield enhancers since it is a light suit. That will force scout players to actually play scout and not this crazy logi/scout/slayer type thing that it is now. I don't know. Only a few scouts give me issues but I run a speciailized suit thats meant to pick my opponents. And a lot of brick tanked scouts show up on my tacnet so I get the jump on them anyway with the prec enhancer. You can also move the buffs from 5 percent to 3 percent. The math works out to make it so it's helpful but you still need to supplement. Seeing basic Gal scouts with a 60% dampening (Module, Passive, and core skill passive) is BS, IMO. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Oswald Rehnquist 1364	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:15:00 - [23] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: [ Unfortunetly your #3 is not currently possible, do remember that shotgun is a light weapon still, which is why many people are talking about adding an M slot so that we have 4 types of weapons, side arm, light, medium, heavy. #2 while this sounds good, like it would solve the problem I don't think it would, scouts have a regen to the suits now, least the Gallente does which is in essence an extra low slot, so people would instantly complain and want that back similar to when logis had that. They also have better speed, radar, and are harder to detect, with a smaller hit box, so all that you would be doing is equalling the stats between scout and assault suit currently. #1 As explained with the #2 scouts are better in all fields or least most of them, the assault suit just is in a very bad place right now and needs to be entirely worked over again. The assault suit is becoming less common then heavies or logis, as both of these have far better survivability. 3 is possible (I also did mention it as a last resort as well), just because its hard to shallow doesn't make it impossible. Light weapon + Cloak is in fact very unique to this game, as in having the best weapon selection and the ability to cloak in a pvp game. With EVE recon ship cloaks take up a weapon slot (high slot), or Ps2 the utility based cloak only allows sidearms usage, or Shadow Fall were cloak units can only use knives when cloaked. The ability to have the same offensive utility as your assaults and the ability to cloak is a very powerful combination. Also 1 & 2 are to be in conjunction with each other. "scouts have a regen to the suits now", yes and I think it would be a good idea to swap those innate numbers with the assault regen numbers, thus scouts not having high innate regen, making assaults better at regeneration by default. Also more module slots would help assaults improve their versatility and ehp. These changes would be sufficient with keeping assaults viable. Below 28 dB
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 757	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:46:00 - [24] - Quote A lot of people are saying buff the assault suits because they're underperforming. But in reality, all medium frame suits are under performing, not just assault suits. Cloaks: They shouldn't provide a dampening bonus. The dampening bonus makes countering cloaks with detection even more difficult. As Judge pointed out in one of his Youtube videos(1,2), the cloak is a good stealth and frontal assault tool. Should cloaks be a tool for stealth and frontal assault? Ask yourselves that when re-balancing cloaks. Being able to fire a few shots off before de-cloaking is incredibly powerful. With the few shots fired before de-cloaking, the target will be near dead if not dead. And yes this matters because not all cloaked players engage from behind; as some of you use to reason that this issue is nonfactor. Bugs! A couple things in game aren't very reliable in game due to bugs; the cloak is no exception. Sometimes cloaked players running at full speed will shimmer, other times they wont shimmer at all. Scout Racial Roles: The only scout suit which has a scouting related ability is the Caldari scout. The Minmatar scout is a hacker suited for guerrilla warfare. The Gallente scout is an infiltrator. And the Amarr scout is a light assault with an odd stamina bonus. Many say that the most powerful scouts are the Gallente and Caldari scout suits due to their E-war related bonuses. But this is really part of a greater E-war issue that effects every suit and vehicle in game. Iron Wolf Saber should know something about it. E-war(passive detection, active detection, stealth, radar range, etc.) needs an overhaul. Medium frame EHP is not medium
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 149	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:51:00 - [25] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Require users to manually deactivate; solve the "fire-from-cloak" problem. * Addresses the biggest issue with cloak * Discourages "surprise" frontal assaults * Encourages old-school scoutly tactics Alternative: Accelerate decloak animation speed (if possible). Terrible idea, making it an inconvenience to use would just discourage people from using it all together. Your alternative idea sounds fantastic, a combination of little changes like this would easily put cloaks in a more balanced position, to cloak should also be a bit longer, it currently takes as long to cloak as it does to decloak which doesn't seem right.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 149	Posted - 2014.05.18 07:07:00 - [26] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Cloak needs to lose the profile damp when activated. The extra damp essentially frees up a low slot so it's easy to be damped out, cloaked as well as have free slots for tanking. Aside from that, the fact that +hp modules are a lot more attractive when a) your base hp is so low, and b) you have copious amounts of speed and shield regen to sacrifice in the name of tank c) you have stupid amounts of fitting room left then you can see why it's tempting to say 'screw assaults, imma making a slayer scout instead'. (note that I'm okay with scout ak.0 being the light assault suit) IMO, revisiting how armour modules work will also radically change how armour scouts are fit and it's probably premature to adjust too much yet. What you propose would quite the radical change and doesn't seem to factor in the problems Minjas are currently facing involving fitting req, I get what you're saying though, it shouldn't be this easy for most Scouts to tank and be stealthy at the same time. But that freed up low slot is damn well necessary for us Minjas.
Francois Sanchez What The French Academie 17	Posted - 2014.05.18 08:28:00 - [27] - Quote To make the brick tank scout disappear, just make the armor plates fitting impossible on scouts because they're too heavy for their suit, only allow ferroscales and reactive plates (hence you need to modify a bit ferroscale and reactive plates, have a look at the armor modules thread). And also, I think the gallente scout has too much PG.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 149	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:10:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Since mostly everyone seems more interested about Scout changes than actually answering your question I'll give this a try. To start, I feel the best way to balance the cloak is to give them a series of minor changes too how they currently function, 1. Shorter decloak time 2. A subtle noise should be emitted when active 3. Shields don't recharge while cloaked It's the little things that make a difference, while on the topic of "little things" I also think we should have Cloak variants that not only different stats but also act differently, example a cloak with lower PG/CPU drain but has no Damp bonus and has a persistent shimmer effect , this is just an example of what could be. As for Scouts skill bonus wise, there in a pretty good place with Amarr being the exception, but this is cause the other scouts cover every area of stealth/EWAR leaving the A-Scout in some sort of Assault/Scout limbo, looking at it's stats one can tell its made for fighting, it should get a bonus to support combat, -X% too weapon fitting cost, the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked (I don't think anyone would really like that for balance reasons, this is just an idea.), or some sort of innate ability that either buffs allies or debuffs enemies. Examples, the Amarr Scout could have some sort of passive disruptor that mess with enemies HUD(Or just their radar if that's too much), or a passive signature field where all allies within the A-Scouts radar range inherit the Scout's radar signature. Compared to the other Scouts the Amarr lacks any form of team synergy with it's bonus skill which is really holding it back as it lacks any serious edge in direct combat or for tactical support.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 237	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:35:00 - [29] - Quote In eve ships decloak if another ship gets to close. If this happened in dust cloaks wouldn't work in the tight fights close in with many players.Even a blue could decloak you. Also make Cloak grenade with decloaks players, Just take a Flux Grenade and make it darn cloak shield.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 441	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:41:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. I don't use the cloak at all, but I don't see why people call it overpowered. I can see cloaked players even while they are standing still, often catching THEM off-guard because they trust their cloak too much. Personally, I think it's completely underpowered and clumsy to use due to the interface. I mean, it's not like we have large FOVs in which a cloaked player could hide. Your field of view is so focused that you can easily detect them. The biggest bonus of cloaking is the profile reduction. That little chevron is far more important to detecting another player than seeing them visually, because most attacks will be from your blind spot due to low FOV.



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