DUST Search - [Suggestion] On Tweaking Cloak

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

[Suggestion] On Tweaking Cloak

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 237	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:52:00 - [31] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. I don't use the cloak at all, but I don't see why people call it overpowered. I can see cloaked players even while they are standing still, often catching THEM off-guard because they trust their cloak too much. Personally, I think it's completely underpowered and clumsy to use due to the interface. I mean, it's not like we have large FOVs in which a cloaked player could hide. Your field of view is so focused that you can easily detect them. The biggest bonus of cloaking is the profile reduction. That little chevron is far more important to detecting another player than seeing them visually, because most attacks will be from your blind spot due to low FOV. Please tell us when you see them what is the suit you have on and what skills do you have that mod that suit.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 443	Posted - 2014.05.18 10:21:00 - [32] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: Please tell us when you see them what is the suit you have on and what skills do you have that mod that suit. Currently I'm on my Minmatar alt. I'm using the Starter Frontline frame with CR, Breach SMG, Nanite Injector and two shield extenders and a Damage mod, if I remember correctly. I've met at least a dozen cloaked scouts in the last two days. I do not use any kind of sensory modules and have, in fact, not even skilled into that direction. I'm still at lvl 2 of Medium suits. This character currently sits at 600,000 SP or so and most of my skills went into unlocking non-militia modules. I have a hard time killing cloaked users with this fit, because I'm not used to burst weapons and it feels weird to have auto-aim in addition to a barely visible target with this setup. It's easier on my Gallente with 10,000,000 SP, where I use ARs and thus have full auto, which allows for steadier movement of my aim. I play all three weight classes as Gallente, but mostly a Commando with AR and Shotgun. The best hiding place for a cloaked scout is in the muzzle flash of my gun. That's the only time when I lose track of them. And using that opportunity to run around me is clever play. It would be sad if scouts couldn't even do that. I often die to shotguns from nowhere, but that's not because of cloak. It's because most of the area around me is a blind spot and the sound system prioritizes the announcer, instead of footsteps of enemies and the like. As a Commando, the profile reduction doesn't even matter in that situation. Same for Medium suits. However, as a scout I definitely catch uncloaked enemies more easily than cloaked, which is because of profile reduction and not visibility. Oh and I'm also near-sighted and have my TV positioned at a distance that prevents me from seeing with full clarity. And I play both on a ****** TV that can only output 1080i, as well as an awesome Samsung 3DTV with all the bells and whistles. The latter has far better sound, though, which would be helpful if you could actually hear the footstepts of enemies.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 520	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:16:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Here's a copy&paste from a different thread where I accidentally addressed this specific question: Stefan Stahl wrote: Personally, my favorite way out of this situation [uselessness of the Amarr Scout] is drastically reducing the maximum duration of cloaks to 5 seconds at STD and 10 seconds at PRO while keeping a 60 seconds recharge time. This means as a Scout you can't be invisible "by default" but will have to think about when you are going to use the cloak. Then grant the Amarr Scout a 10% bonus per level to recharge speed (for a 33% reduction in cooldown at lvl 5, equals to 15 second less time between activations) to make it the invisibility specialist. After that roles would go like this: - Caldari Scout can pick up everyone on his radar, even if they see him too. - Gallente Scout can't be detected by scanning, but can't scan very well himself. - Minmatar Scout avoids detection by running from your line of sight very quickly. (The faster you are, the less time you spend in places where people may look.) - Amarr Scout avoids detection by not being visible to the eye, even if he does appear on other people's minimap while uncloaked. When a Scout can only be cloaked 1/6th of the time I think I'd be alright with the dampening bonus staying the way it is. Right now, since you're almost always cloaked as a scout, this equals a free profile dampener. For reference: I used to play GalScout from December 2013 until the release of 1.8. Back then I thought being a Scout was easy. These days I think it's just a cheap tactic. P.S.: Here's a thought I just had that may need some discussion: Maybe Caldari and Gallente Scouts should be reduced to one scanning bonus each. Either have additional range or receive a profile/precision bonus, not both. These are two very useful modules a GalScout receives for free at level 5.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 716	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:47:00 - [34] - Quote The only problem I personally see with the cloak is the ability to fire off rounds before the user has even decloaked. I think you can get one or two shotgun rounds out, for example, before the cloak even disengages. Fix this and that would put the cloak in a much better position just with that small change.
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 22	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:14:00 - [35] - Quote Well they are a lot of good opinions and today is my forum day so i will write you one on my own. I liked the idea to remove the dampening from cloaks. It will help a bit the useless gal logi scanners. Another thought I have in my empty head is remove the invisibility but keep the dampening. Any scout will be invisible for all the scanners while cloaked with only one complex dampener will have 17.7 profile. The best scanner in gal logi hands has precision of 15 but needs 40min recharge and visibility is only 7.5 sec, and costs 30K ISK. Most used proto scanner will be the CreoDron which in gallente logi hands has precision 21. So it is very useful to have armored scout with cloak but not invisibility. I remember prior 1.7 there were many great scouts doing excellent job with less slots and no invisibility. So in 1.8 scouts got one more slot for modules, additional equipment slot, reduced profile and precision, and the OP invisibility. that's why there are no assault suits. I think just getting rid of the invisibility from the cloak and making the base scout profile 40 will do the job. A scout (not gallente) with complex dampener and activated cloak will have profile 20.25 which will hide him from almost anything but the most expensive proto scanner. Second thing the active scanners need to be better than the passive. We invested SP and money in them, they have short visibility and long recharge. The Duvolle Focused Active Scanner, which costs 30K isk must be able to catch even gal scout with one complex dampener and activated cloak. With no invisibility many scouts will play again assaults and only the real scouts that don't need invisibility will stay scouts. DonGÇÖt change the versatility of the game by removing the possibility to make armored scout. Just do it in the right way as I posted in another thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2167348#post2167348
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 770	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:38:00 - [36] - Quote Cardio Therapy wrote: I remember prior 1.7 there were many great scouts doing excellent job with less slots and no invisibility. The opposite of this statement is true. Aggregate Scout performance for each and every build between 1.0 and 1.7 either declined on or held steady (source below). Sep KDR Histogram July-Sep KDR Trendline Saying things like "great scouts did great" is incorrect. Some Scouts did well by comparison to other Scouts, but no Scouts did well by comparison to other frames, except for a handful of Scout Snipers. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1731	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:41:00 - [37] - Quote Why not give a something like a three second delay after decloaking where you cannot perform any action other than move? Or make it six seconds and reduce cloak fitting requirements so that any suit can fit a cloak, while giving scouts a 50% delay reduction role bonus. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1055	Posted - 2014.05.18 16:10:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Cloaks lessen the meta of ewar interplay. Due to the fact that cloaks have a free non-stacking-penalized complex dampener built-in, the value of fitting precision enhancers and scanners is lessened. Without that free cmplx dampener, the range of fits with enhancers/scanners widens as more suits fit into different tiers of signature, meaning that someone sacrificing in order to scan can pick up suits that are not optimized for dampening. With this extra free non-stacking-penalized dampening that the cloak provides, once a scout fit a complex damp there is very little that non-caldari-scouts can do inorder to detect them. In effect 2 modules on non-bonused suits can neutralize 3-4 modules and an entire category of equipment from contention. This eliminates variety in fits, and playtype possibilities. Fixing swarms
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2424	Posted - 2014.05.18 16:15:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. The cloak is something that is constantly going to be complained about. It is another Sniper Rifle topic. There are people on these forums that want them to be balanced and will provide constructive and evidence based reasoning to what should be changed. However there are more people that just want it gone because they don't like it when someone uses it against them. The cloak has 2 problems right now. 1) It is a tool for camping. You are only invisible when you do not move. People want something that lets them travel across the terrible maps DUST 514 has where there's a 100m or more in between objectives and cover. You need to be at least 150-200m away before you become invisible for the purpose of crossing terrain. . . this is because of the terrible rendering of the game and no innate mechanic to the cloak. 2) It is an active dampener. As long Gallente Logistics with a Focused Scanner or Caldari Scouts with 4 complex precision enhancers can get bellow 16db the cloak is necessary for Caldari and Minmatar Scouts to be undetectable to scanning. DUST 514 went from having shared team vision to shared passive vision. The Active Scanner was improperly "rebalanced" and took away DUST 514's trademark wall hack. [Passive Scan Table] These are good things, however there will always be complaints about them because "camping is for [insert any derogatory term]!" And people want their wall hacks. It's not fair that someone can sneak up on me! The only problem with the cloak is swapping to a weapon to disengage. You can fire before the de-cloak animation is finished. I don't know what the cloak looks like in 480p but in 720p it is very easy to see when someone is moving. It would be really nice to see variants on the cloak that were for moving across distances undetected, but the current cloaks should stay with their mechanic (minus the de-cloak problem) Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Doyle Reese OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 474	Posted - 2014.05.18 16:50:00 - [40] - Quote As a scout, I feel that it is currently unnecessary to have anything more than a Basic Cloak, just change the cloak skills and cloak to: Cloaking (Skill) - +10% bonus to Cloak Duration per level Basic Cloak Field 20 second duration, 10% reduction to Scan Profile when active Advanced Cloak Field 20 second duration, 15% reduction to Scan Profile when active Prototype Cloak Field 20 second duration, 25% reduction to Scan Proifle when active 30 second duration at level 5

Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 96	Posted - 2014.05.18 17:41:00 - [41] - Quote I agree with the proposal to increase the delay between decloaking and firing to prevent frontal assault, surprise firing whilst still cloaked. Other than that I am strongly against any other changes to cloaks. Please do not mess with the dampening bonus. The scanning meta is quite finely balanced. The cloak dampening adds some much needed uncertainty to the whole thing. Removing the damp bonus would be a large nerf to min and amarr scouts who already struggle to compete with Cal and Gal scouts. I use many more dampeners on my min scout now than I ever did in 1.7. The best solutions to brick Gal scouts are all dealt with in the armour tanking changes feedback sticky thread. Like, for example, giving scouts increased movement penalties for equiping plates. The best solution for bringing Cal and Gal scouts in line with other suits (apart from the plate stacking problem mentioned above) was posted by I-Shayz-I in general discussion. He suggests changing their bonus to a % increase in effectiveness of scanning/dampening modules rather than just straight bonuses like we have now. This would mean they would have to actually equip the modules in order to benefit. I particularly like this idea.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 83	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:02:00 - [42] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak. A suggestion in another thread was to make armour plating (and potentially shield extenders) percentage based. An example of this would be the following: Let's say that complex armour plates offer 80% more armour to your suit, instead of a fixed 148.5 HP (1351.1) Single Plate Values: -- Gallente Scout has 130 armour HP by default. , which equates to 234 armour -- Gallente Logi has 180 armour HP by default, which equates to 324 armour -- Gallente Assault has 210 armour HP by default. which equates to 378 armour -- Gellente Sentinel has 525 armour HP by default, which equates to 945 armour Proto Suit Values When Fully Stacked: -- Gallente Scout > 546 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (32.5), 578.5 maximum armour HP* -- Gallente Logi > 900 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (45), 945 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Assault > 882 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (52.5), 934.5 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Sentinel > 2,025 armour, +25% of the default armour HP form the Armour Skill (131.25), 2,156.25 armour HP ... it may be wise to introduce a stacking penalty Estimated Penalty Values: -- 1st plate: 80%, 2nd plate: 70%, 3rd plate: 55%, 4th plate: 25%, 5th plate: 8% Armour HP Values When Using the Above Penalty With Fully Stacked Proto Suits: -- Gallente Scout > 1st plate: 104 HP, 2nd plate: 91 HP, 3rd plate: 71.5 HP, 4th plate: 32.5 HP Total HP: 429, +Armour Skill, 461.5 maximum armour HP. -- Gallente Logi > 1st plate: 144 HP, 2nd plate: 126 HP, 3rd plate: 99 HP, 4th plate: 45 HP, 5th plate: 14.4 HP Total HP: 608.4, +Armour Skill, 653.4 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Assault > 1st plate: 168 HP, 2nd plate: 147 HP, 3rd plate: 115.5 HP, 4th plate: 52.5 HP Total HP: 547, +Armour Skill, 599.5 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Sentinel > 1st plate: 420 HP, 2nd plate: 367.5 HP, 3rd plate: 288.75 HP, 131.25 HP Total HP: 1,732.5, +Armour Skill, 1,863.75 maximum armour HP Not too sure how I feel about this... that Gallente Sentinal Edit: perhaps it would work without the stacking penalties, and just reduced the default Gellente Sentinal's armour HP, which is 525, to about 400 HP.
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 96	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:07:00 - [43] - Quote Temias Mercurial -- Gallente Sentinel: 1st plate: 420 HP, 2nd plate: 367.5 HP, 3rd plate: 288.75 HP, 131.25 HP [b wrote: Total HP: 1, 732.5, +Armour Skill, 1,863.75 maximum armour HP[/b] Not too sure how I feel about this... that Gallente Sentinal It might be possible if sentinel suit base armour was reduced. Though this would kind of force them to use plates, which would be a shame. It might be better to target the movement penalty for plates on different suits to balance plate usage on light suits.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 83	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:19:00 - [44] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Temias Mercurial -- Gallente Sentinel: 1st plate: 420 HP, 2nd plate: 367.5 HP, 3rd plate: 288.75 HP, 131.25 HP [b wrote: Total HP: 1, 732.5, +Armour Skill, 1,863.75 maximum armour HP[/b] Not too sure how I feel about this... that Gallente Sentinal It might be possible if sentinel suit base armour was reduced. Though this would kind of force them to use plates, which would be a shame. It might be better to target the movement penalty for plates on different suits to balance plate usage on light suits. True, I did just edit it to say that it may be better to have the default armoud HP of the Gallente Sentinel reduced form 525, to about 400. Movement penalties do not make a fun game, but a tanked Gallente Scout is just as slow as other tanked suits, the only noticeable difference is stamina regen, which isn't too significant when you're already crawling along the ground. Also, I rarely see non-tanked Heavies, the term "Sentinel" describes their purpose perfectly, as a guardian, immovable wall, or fortress. I also play Minmatar Sentinel, which is insanely fun to use, and can take on others when strafing around or running away, which is only viable with the Minamtar with it's speed and near instant stamina regen. I think that it would work fine to reduce the default armour HP. Also, a logi with a decent rep negates the absolute necessity of having to be completely tanked out.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2147	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:44:00 - [45] - Quote Cloak need the same delay of the PLC after it shots and you have to change weapon. Not too much, but enough annoying to make you visibile before you shoot your first round. PSN: ogamega I'm here to bla bla bla...
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1562	Posted - 2014.05.18 19:37:00 - [46] - Quote Doyle Reese wrote: As a scout, I feel that it is currently unnecessary to have anything more than a Basic Cloak, just change the cloak skills and cloak to: Cloaking (Skill) - +10% bonus to Cloak Duration per level Basic Cloak Field 20 second duration, 10% reduction to Scan Profile when active Advanced Cloak Field 20 second duration, 15% reduction to Scan Profile when active Prototype Cloak Field 20 second duration, 25% reduction to Scan Proifle when active 30 second duration at level 5 This is fine if you only need the cloak for 10 seconds, and have another 5 to 10 to wait for it to recharge, however if you were a hacking scout (like a minja), and spend much of you effort traipsing across large maps to get past enemy lines and hack undefended targets to change the tide of battle, I assure you that you need ever second you can get. Otherwise, it ends up just like pre-cloak days when an AR/CR/RR user just spots you out of the corner of their eye and guns you down 100 m out. Nothing like spending 5 minutes crossing the entire map to give your team a chance only to have that and a suit wasted because you were merely unlucky. Maybe a slight reduction, but no more than 10 seconds on ADV and PROTO. Otherwise you relegate the cloak to a combat/flanking only tool. "I've made a huge mistake." -G.O.B. Bluth
Feedeesex Venezuela CORP ELITE Caps and Mercs 74	Posted - 2014.05.19 03:11:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. The Gallente are not the only problem, Caldari Also, just as the Gallente become extremely invisible, the Caldari can get to see everything, rethink that the Caldari and Gallente, Amar is the least used because their bonus is useless PD: I use google translator because my dev forum not found, please note my comment.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 960	Posted - 2014.05.19 08:08:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Honestly Its hard to believe, I still encounter at least the same amount of shield tanked caldari scouts, when I play. IF I encounter scouts these days the suit I see the most is either a heavy or a logi behind a heavy....
Ground Zero420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2014.05.19 09:25:00 - [49] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we get more feedback on the cloak? And maybe specifically on the racial roles. Right now the meta is bricktanked or undetectable Gallente Scouts which is a little concerning. Gallante scouts ? really? how about the cal scouts hit detection. My heavy loses 450 shield like it's chump change, yet cal scouts can take an entire clip before losing their glitchy shields? If a player wants to tank hp instead of using electronic warfare it should be allowed.Hence the open sandbox theme we have here. Their already hindered by brick tanking by losing speed and maneuverability. balderdash. Spartan mk420
Jackal OfxThe Kilrathi Myrmidon Syndicate 5	Posted - 2014.05.19 09:50:00 - [50] - Quote I play a galscout and it pains me to say this but i think that scouts should not have To equipment slots and a SideArm. If you think about it there scouts so how are they carrying all of this stuff. Or maybe they should be limited on what kind of equipment they can have. If they could only carry cloaks scanners and drop up links this would make the Logistics suit a more vital role. Trust me there's nothing I love more than sneaking up on people and blowing them up with remote explosives. But as a scout I don't think I should also be a demolition expert. If I want to blow things up I should have to put on my Logistics suit. Another thing that I heard somebody suggest is only giving the scout two sidearms instead of a light weapon. Which to me would really suck not running around with my mass driver. But this would push the Slayers back into assault suits. Leaving the scout to do what it was intended. Patiently waiting to kill a Drone

NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 435	Posted - 2014.05.19 12:14:00 - [51] - Quote Honeslty, The attack while decloaking I never see as a problem as per they originally wanted the ability to fire while cloaked. Not being able to detect the Gallente scout is really annoying, it seams like most Scouts that are not camping a uplink or objective are easy enough to see with the shimmer effect. It seams like some scouts can glitch themselves to side to side all my bullets as there bodies appear to jump in weird locations but this is more to due with netcode or crappy internet. I been watching my game replays and haven't seen any great scouts. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!


Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.