You seem to be under the assumption that turrets and hardeners come free with a BPO vehicle.

I agree to some extend with the OP. EVERYTHING in New Eden should have a price. EVERYTHING. Truthfully, I would love to see a long winded receipt when I die that helps me track my ISK efficiency.

Death: Severus Smith
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- 50,000 ISK : Amarr Sentinel Dropsuit
- 15,000 ISK : Boundless Heavy Machine Gun
- 5,000 ISK : T1 Submachine Gun
- 1,000 ISK : T1 Locus Grenade
- 10,000 ISK : 2x T1 Shield Extender
- 15,000 ISK : 3x T1 Armor Repairer
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- 5,000 ISK : Alpha Clone
- 500 ISK : Reanimation Fee
- 10,000 ISK : CONCORD Security Fee
- 1,000 ISK Applicable Taxes
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Fitted: 96,000 ISK
Fees: 16,500 ISK
Total: 112,500 ISK

The above would be pretty cool. You could track your ISK efficiency and know how much you lost. You just have to price modules / suits better than the current DUST iteration (and the player market will help fix that). One of the BIGGEST things I can think of is to move away from the idea of Militia -> Basic -> Advanced -> Prototype. EVE does it well.

Civilian = Crap that you never use unless you're new or being funny

Tech 1 = Generalist gear that is good and decently cheap

Tech 2 = Specialized gear that is amazing in it's niche but incredibly expensive

It's like the above example of a Rifter vs a Wolf. In almost all occasions the Wolf will beat the Rifter (all skills equal) but the Wold costs 20x the Rifter. But that's because the Wolf is specialized for PvP (hence "Assault Frigate").

- Go try to tackle in a Wolf - it'll be outperformed by the 20x cheaper RIfter.
- Go try to scan in a Wolf - it'll be outperformed by the 20x cheaper Rifter.
- Etc...

The Wolf is amazing at PvP but cannot do other roles like the Rifter can. Hence why the Rifter is a generalist "Tech 1" ship and the Wolf is a specialist "Tech 2" ship. How should this translate to Legion? Tech 1 suits should be generalists while Tech 2 are specialists. This preserves the sandbox / modular feel everyone likes about DUST without making the Tech 2 suit the new "must use, OP" proto suit.

Consider this example:

Templar (Amarr Tech 1 Medium Frame)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Price: 25,000 ISK each

Amarr Medium Frame skill bonus:
- 3% increased light weapon damage per level
- 5% reduction in weapon heat buildup per level

High: 1
Low: 4
Equipment: 1
Weapons: Light / Sidearm
Grenades: 1
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

This is a Tech 1 dropsuit for the Amarr. It favors laser weaponry with it's bonuses and has a decent slot layout allowing for a sidearm and equipment. This gives it the ability to restock ammo, or repair, or scan, or whatever. And the sidearm gives some additional flexibility.

Justicar (Amarr Tech 2 Medium Frame, Based on the Templar)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Price: 500,000 ISK each

Amarr Medium Frame skill bonus:
-3% increased light weapon damage per level
-5% reduction in weapon heat buildup per level

Assault Dropsuit skill bonus:
-5% increased armor plate efficacy per level
-10% reduction to armor plate speed penalty per level

Role Bonus:
-5% increased weapon RoF per level

High: 2
Low:4
Equipment:0
Weapons:Light
Grenades:1
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

This is a Tech 2 dropsuit for the Amarr and is basically the specialized Templar. It gains a huge weapon RoF bonus, a speed bonus, and more armor. However, it loses its equipment and sidearm. This means this suit cannot restock it's own ammo and must rely on other support suits to do so.

The Justicar is clearly the better "Assault" suit. It will decimate the Templar in 1 vs 1 combat. However, it cannot support other mercs, it cannot rearm itself, and it is 20x more expensive than the Templar. This provides balance. If you want to field a Tech 2 suit you need a reason to justify risking 20x more ISK and to bring some friends. Most people won't "Proto stomp" a public contract (that awards 300,000 ISK if won) in a 500,000 ISK suit (without fittings). And if they do then the matchmaker should pair them up with people with a comparable meta level.

In the end, everything should have a price. Even suits / clones. And I personally like the Tech 1 / Tech 2 system in EVE where I can spend less to get a decent item, or spend f***tons more the get a much better, albeit specialized, item. Losing a few 500,000 ISK suits to win a basic public contract makes no sense. But losing a few 500,000 ISK suits to defend my corporations multi-billion ISK asset on Planet X does.

Thanks for the like, I know the numbers are probably off but I was just trying to show a point.

I may make my own thread about this.

Thanks again.

this man, gj brother


my one objection, i dont feel that proto suit fits are to cheep right now. i use proto assault myself, and if i lose more than one a game, im not going to make any isk. period.

vehicle prices need to go up, but proto suit costs feel like their in a good place. what needs to be fixed is corps printing money off of PC.

Completely Agree the skill system and equipment progression Dust 514 has is in my opinion perfect.

The problem lies in the lack of PVE, as there is no way for noobs to get better equipment other than to get protostomped in pub matches.

Also, the massive amount of passive income District owners get. Complete lack of risk for reward. This meant district owners could simply roll-proto every battle without denting their wallets.

No, generally any moderation action doesn't get a blue tag. I'm reading it (it's very long!) and I'll certainly be passing this thread about internally.

@ the op - I love this thread but I especially love the 3rd post down in the thread and wholeheartedly agree!

I would love more commander / RTS elements in the game especially for the more 'endgame' type stuff. I would also love to see an end to passive incomes and instead make corps more reliant on their members for income (Taxation).

CCP has the plans or at least used to have plans to allow us to drop in turret installations and stuff, expand on this! That is a major area that could reap rewards!

Let me go into the weaknesses of DUST that you can hopefully learn from and improve on them. A huge problem with DUST is that ISK efficiency isnGÇÖt tracked and promoted as the most important stat. This is major low-hanging fruit that you havenGÇÖt pickedGÇöIt would be trivial to code. One of the major deterrents to the EVE equivalent of GÇ£protostompingGÇ¥ is that it will destroy your ISK efficiency stats and reflects poorly on your corp. Players are discouraged from running maxed-out fits through social engineering because it looks terrible on killmails. Adding this stat is critical, and it should be emphasized over any other stat in the game (especially K/D).

This. Always this.

In the GÇ£ProgressionGÇ¥ session at Fanfest CCP Z made a statement that really concerned me: When CCP Z said that, I thought to myself: GÇ£This guy really doesnGÇÖt understand what makes DUST 514 special.GÇ¥