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Autoaim Bot514 The Hetairoi 118	Posted - 2014.05.01 08:26:00 - [1] - Quote So far I have not seen a single argument as to why its bad, other than people saying it'll somehow make it harder for new players by increasing some gap between vet and new players (news flash, it wont). Could someone explain, in detail, just how that under the following scenario below: a. competitive gap will increase b. variety will vanish Possible scenario 1. All suits are now PRO stat suits that unlock at lvl1 of their skill and progress by adding more SP. 2. STD and ADV suits are removed as they no longer serve a purpose. 3. All BPO's are converted to current ADV stats, no longer receive bonuses, but require no SP investment 4. AUR is transitioned away from buying gear to buying boosters and custom paintjobs for vehicles and suits. or other cosmetic items. 5. Tiered meta mods and weapons remain, as it is in EVE. I admit, yes, there will still be a gap between a PROstat suit with basic mods vs a PROstat suit with PRO mods, but it is a far more favorable situation than a STDstat suit with basic mods vs a PROstat suit with pro mods. What this will fix: Primary a. New players will have a better chance when going up against vets, but there will be enough of a difference to encourage progression. b. A new player can spend their relatively low number of SP across a wider array of suits if only staying at lvl1. Currently a new player would have to grind for several weeks just to get one protosuit. This will allow the new player to try different roles, and be more flexible in battle. Secondary a. prices for suits can be drastically lowered, reducing the need for PC isk farms. ISK could then be completely removed form PC in favor of materials. b. much easier for CCP to balance and introduce new roles in each suit catagory. c. not risk destroying matchmaking by spreading the playerbase thin with a SP/WP based matchmaking system.
Gaelon Thrace Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 258	Posted - 2014.05.01 08:42:00 - [2] - Quote Literally every single post I've read that's opposed to tiericide has displayed a complete lack of understanding of what tiericide is or how it will work even though there have been several posts trying to explain it.
Autoaim Bot514 The Hetairoi 122	Posted - 2014.05.01 15:00:00 - [3] - Quote Gaelon Thrace wrote: Literally every single post I've read that's opposed to tiericide has displayed a complete lack of understanding of what tiericide is or how it will work even though there have been several posts trying to explain it. Exactly, people make all these claims but dont explain it.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1362	Posted - 2014.05.01 15:04:00 - [4] - Quote I'm not convinced it is necessarily bad, but I think it is unnecessary and would be a lot of work to implement properly. I'd rather CCP did other things with their time. I'd be in favour of reducing the gap between tiers a bit though, especially advanced to proto. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Alena Ventrallis PAND3M0N1UM Top Men. 1247	Posted - 2014.05.01 15:18:00 - [5] - Quote Tiericide means everything is the same meta level with different functionality. For example, on Eve side pre tiericide, there were 3 tiers of battleship, each getting better in overall stats as you went through the tiers. Afterward, each battleship focused on a different area. One battleship focused on EWAR, one focused on straight up damage, and one focused on the racial tank. Tech 2 ships would focus on one aspect of a particular hull and sacrifice the other. One T2 ship might focus on tank, while another T2 ship based on the same hull would focus on gank (see the Punisher, Retribution, and Vengeance for examples of T1 - T2 ships) Tiericide in Dust would be very difficult without a big change to the dropsuit command tree at the very least. You would have one Amarr dropsuit skill, which would unlock the basic medium, heavy, and light Amarr suits. Then you would have specializations. Instead of Amarr Scout skill, it would simply be the Scout skill. So In order to use the Amar scout, you would need a set level of Amarr dropsuit (3 for example) and at least 1 level in Scout to use the Amarr scout suit. So the Amarr scout would require two different skills in order to wear it. Now let's say you take Caldari dropsuits to 3. You would unlock the Caldari basic light, medium, and heavy suits. But since you also have a level in the Scout skill, you would also unlock the Caldari scout suit. Sounds complicated, I know, but read up on how Eve does it to hear a better explanation. Now wht we would do is make the current proto suits the new basic suits, and advanced suits would be the new militia suits. Now one racial dropsuit skill unlocks all the basic suits for that particular race, and the specializations (Logistics, Assault, Scout, etc.) Are there own skill (A Logistic Dropsuit skill that affects all races logistics suits, instead of an Amarr Logistics Dropsuit skill, a Caldari Logistics dropsuit skill, etc.) This also makes balancing a lot easier, because we don't have to balance 3 different versions of a particular item. Also, hopefully it would make running good suits a lot cheaper. That's what you get!! - DA Rick
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2645	Posted - 2014.05.01 15:27:00 - [6] - Quote @Alena. Eve uses a secondary skill system, where dust uses a linear skill system. Copying over tech II ship skills like having a 'Scout' skill and an 'Assault' skill wouldnt work well. Instead you leave the skill tree exactly the same as it is now. Except proto suits are unlocked at level 1 of a skill and each skill has a set of passive bonuses applying directly to that suit. Its easy to see and understand, its a relatively painless transition. You don't even need to do a dropsuit command respec as the skill tree wouldn't have to change at all. We WOULD need to add a bonus to basic frames though to give players a reason to skill it to 5. We would probably need to rebalance the suits slightly maybe and wrap up some more power within the bonus itself to make it more desireable to skill a suit to 5. An easy solution (just off the top of my head) would be to reduce CPU/PG on all current prototype dropsuits by 20% and add in 5% CPU/PG per level to every skill. Not saying we should do this, but just an example of something you could do to give people a reason to skill up suits without making the level 1 to level 5 differential too massive of a power advantage.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 436	Posted - 2014.05.01 15:51:00 - [7] - Quote They want to ruin Dust 514 by turning it into a casual arcade shooter that anyone can pick up and have a couple easy rounds and then never play Dust again...because if it is easy and fair more people will like it. Lamesauce. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 668	Posted - 2014.05.01 16:15:00 - [8] - Quote A more tangible, possibly more understandable example of tiericide can be found here. Variety is already dead; you either proto to fight/stomp or BPO to grind isk. If not, you're lying.
Yan Darn Science For Death Final Resolution. 736	Posted - 2014.05.01 17:14:00 - [9] - Quote "Because this is New Eden - HTFU noob" Hey, the game that made New Eden removed Tiers when they realised that it presented pointless challenges for players and Devs alike. "I worked hard for my Proto skillz - you just want to take them away cause you're jealous at my shiny proto gear" A) I have proto gear and ISK to burn too. B) you still get to have say - 25% weapon cost reduction and 25% heat build up reduction on your suit, the newbie unfortunately will not. However you won't have extra PG/CPU to spare and extra slots over that noob as well. "So all that investing in CRs means nothing now" First - you can still have 25% kick reduction and 25% less dispersion, 15% quicker reloads and 15% extra armour damage, compared to someone with no points in CR. Second - most suggestions for tiercide involve removing dropsuits tiers only. The idea is, no piece of equipment should be just better in every way possible - that actually removes choice, since the more you progress the more Items you make redundant. Higher Tier weapons and mods have an immediate disadvantage - they use up way more PG/CPU. "But if you're making everyone wear STD suits you can't fit that stuff cause they have fewer slots and PG/CPU..." Well the new 'STD' will be similar to proto stats. And, this just points the obvious imbalance between proto-suits and STD. A proto CR costs something other than just more ISK, they cost more resources too. Suits offer more PG/CPU and slots for nothing other than ISK. On to fitting proto equipment - with relevant fitting skills maxed you could probably upgrade most equipment to around ADV - but yeah, if want you to fit that prototype weapon, you will probably have to decide what you want to downgrade elsewhere. "So you're handing new players everything on a plate, whereas I had to work for it" Even if this were true, we could say that about a lot of things. I could complain that new 1.8 scouts didn't have to go through the BS I had to for nearly a year (especially with DS command refund) - same with pre 1.7 Tankers. Things can change in New Eden, HTFU. However, your SP (assuming you made smart investments) will still give you an advantage. Some people would argue having a gun that is roughly 10%-20% more effective in most respects, 20% more shields and armour, 50% greater passive scan range etc. is balance breaking already. Most tiercide supporters I've seen still want that kind of disparity and arguably more once we start talking about fitting higher tier mods and weapons. "If you are that butthurt about NPE - pester CCP about tiered matchmaking" Tiered matchmaking is only needed if tiers exist. Or put another way - why segregate the community if you don't need too? In itself, nullifies the whole 'New Eden' feel if you are only ever pitted against someone as close to your level as possible. Don't let the tiercide haters try and convince you that we want perfect balance. "Well you're still removing variety" Sorry, please explain how me why I would use my Valor BPO, over my proto Gal scout? Does my standard scout do something my proto can't? I'm pretty sure having one suit that is better than another suit in every way possible is not variety - it is making things redundant - which is kinda the opposite of increasing variety btw. "Well..but..." Sorry I'm done for now. Come up with a genuine counter argument that addresses the points I've made and not some strawman and I'll maybe respond. The Ghost of Bravo
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death Final Resolution. 3173	Posted - 2014.05.01 17:23:00 - [10] - Quote Hell, they could make money by selling bonused suits. So like a GalScout with 15% dampening for level one of the skill, rather than the suit without the bonus like we have now. NEEDZ MOAR FULL RESPEC (y'happy, Dildo?) ak.0 // 4 LYFE

Django Quik Dust2Dust. 3080	Posted - 2014.05.01 18:05:00 - [11] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: They want to ruin Dust 514 by turning it into a casual arcade shooter that anyone can pick up and have a couple easy rounds and then never play Dust again...because if it is easy and fair more people will like it. Lamesauce. Tiericide does not go anywhere near completely disposing of the skill system, so it's still not even remotely like any casual shooter out there. There would still be skill levels and there would still be some disparity but we'd have less filler at the lower levels (standard suits) and more focus on things that are actually useful that everyone wants to use (proto suits) but can't because it takes 2 months of grind to reach (and that's not including weapons and mods and core skills that actually make a large amount of the difference). Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2882	Posted - 2014.05.01 18:25:00 - [12] - Quote Gaelon Thrace wrote: Literally every single post I've read that's opposed to tiericide has displayed a complete lack of understanding of what tiericide is or how it will work even though there have been several posts trying to explain it. Dont forget the ones that are just thinly veiled attempts by bad players trying to keep as much of an advantage as possible so they dont die I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3550	Posted - 2014.05.01 18:27:00 - [13] - Quote Because tiercide sucks Vehicles are supposed to have it, yet it sucks and i have the slots layout of an old mlt tank
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 669	Posted - 2014.05.01 18:32:00 - [14] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because tiercide sucks Vehicles are supposed to have it, yet it sucks and i have the slots layout of an old mlt tank You didn't get tiericide, you got retardified. They'll eventually give you the better toys back. Although still quite possibly in a ret arded way. Variety is already dead; you either proto to fight/stomp or BPO to grind isk. If not, you're lying.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2653	Posted - 2014.05.01 18:39:00 - [15] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because tiercide sucks Vehicles are supposed to have it, yet it sucks and i have the slots layout of an old mlt tank Vehicles atm do kind of suck... agreed. That's not because of tiercide that's because they rebalanced tanks poorly. Vehicles also need racial parity and tech II frames before tiercide will make sense.
Autoaim Bot514 The Hetairoi 129	Posted - 2014.05.01 18:40:00 - [16] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because tiercide sucks Vehicles are supposed to have it, yet it sucks and i have the slots layout of an old mlt tank Vehicles wrent tiericided.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3550	Posted - 2014.05.01 18:40:00 - [17] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because tiercide sucks Vehicles are supposed to have it, yet it sucks and i have the slots layout of an old mlt tank You didn't get tiericide, you got retardified. They'll eventually give you the better toys back. Although still quite possibly in a ret arded way. I doubt it They have taken skills, mods, turrets, vehicles and given nothing back
Autoaim Bot514 The Hetairoi 129	Posted - 2014.05.01 18:41:00 - [18] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because tiercide sucks Vehicles are supposed to have it, yet it sucks and i have the slots layout of an old mlt tank You didn't get tiericide, you got retardified. They'll eventually give you the better toys back. Although still quite possibly in a ret arded way. I doubt it They have taken skills, mods, turrets, vehicles and given nothing back Vehicles still lack parity.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3550	Posted - 2014.05.01 18:43:00 - [19] - Quote Autoaim Bot514 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because tiercide sucks Vehicles are supposed to have it, yet it sucks and i have the slots layout of an old mlt tank You didn't get tiericide, you got retardified. They'll eventually give you the better toys back. Although still quite possibly in a ret arded way. I doubt it They have taken skills, mods, turrets, vehicles and given nothing back Vehicles still lack parity. Vehicles lack everything tbh If your not infantry your ignored
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 671	Posted - 2014.05.01 18:45:00 - [20] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because tiercide sucks Vehicles are supposed to have it, yet it sucks and i have the slots layout of an old mlt tank You didn't get tiericide, you got retardified. They'll eventually give you the better toys back. Although still quite possibly in a ret arded way. I doubt it They have taken skills, mods, turrets, vehicles and given nothing back Took 6-7 months to fix and reintroduce the active scanner. It'll come. Just not anytime soon tm. Variety is already dead; you either proto to fight/stomp or BPO to grind isk. If not, you're lying.

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3554	Posted - 2014.05.01 18:59:00 - [21] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because tiercide sucks Vehicles are supposed to have it, yet it sucks and i have the slots layout of an old mlt tank You didn't get tiericide, you got retardified. They'll eventually give you the better toys back. Although still quite possibly in a ret arded way. I doubt it They have taken skills, mods, turrets, vehicles and given nothing back Took 6-7 months to fix and reintroduce the active scanner. It'll come. Just not anytime soon tm. 1 thing Where are the Sagaris and Surya?
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 672	Posted - 2014.05.01 19:01:00 - [22] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because tiercide sucks Vehicles are supposed to have it, yet it sucks and i have the slots layout of an old mlt tank You didn't get tiericide, you got retardified. They'll eventually give you the better toys back. Although still quite possibly in a ret arded way. I doubt it They have taken skills, mods, turrets, vehicles and given nothing back Took 6-7 months to fix and reintroduce the active scanner. It'll come. Just not anytime soon tm. 1 thing Where are the Sagaris and Surya? Doomheim? Variety is already dead; you either proto to fight/stomp or BPO to grind isk. If not, you're lying.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 438	Posted - 2014.05.01 23:16:00 - [23] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Luk Manag wrote: They want to ruin Dust 514 by turning it into a casual arcade shooter that anyone can pick up and have a couple easy rounds and then never play Dust again...because if it is easy and fair more people will like it. Lamesauce. Tiericide does not go anywhere near completely disposing of the skill system, so it's still not even remotely like any casual shooter out there. There would still be skill levels and there would still be some disparity but we'd have less filler at the lower levels (standard suits) and more focus on things that are actually useful that everyone wants to use (proto suits) but can't because it takes 2 months of grind to reach (and that's not including weapons and mods and core skills that actually make a large amount of the difference). We used to have higher SP requirements for various suits and tanks. The SP needed for STD fits of multiple roles are given to every new character, and MLT tanks are perfectly viable as well. I hope for a long term plan to increase the SP tree, with more tiers, and more disparities...not less. You can do a lot with STD everything. The PRO level assault suits used to have 2 equipment slots, and there was endless moaning about how OP that was, all from players who haven't stuck around anyway, so now the PRO assault suit is barely worth the ISK. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 790	Posted - 2014.05.01 23:23:00 - [24] - Quote tiericide isnt bad, its just the mouth breathers who dont know anything about eve and have only played cod cant comprehend such a simple concept and it scares them because its confusing even though its actually not. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2895	Posted - 2014.05.01 23:28:00 - [25] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: tiericide isnt bad, its just the mouth breathers who dont know anything about eve and have only played cod cant comprehend such a simple concept and it scares them because its confusing even though its actually not. Except that argument is fundamentally flawed since all the mouth breathing cod players you disparage would be used to fighting in a game where everyone is on more or less equal footing gear wise The people who really get in a froth against tiercide, I find, tend to be EVE players who came over and have little or out of date FPS experience I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world.
Cotsy The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 43	Posted - 2014.05.01 23:58:00 - [26] - Quote Autoaim Bot514 wrote: Primary a. New players will have a better chance when going up against vets, but there will be enough of a difference to encourage progression. b. A new player can spend their relatively low number of SP across a wider array of suits if only staying at lvl1. Currently a new player would have to grind for several weeks just to get one protosuit. This will allow the new player to try different roles, and be more flexible in battle. Secondary a. prices for suits can be drastically lowered, reducing the need for PC isk farms. ISK could then be completely removed form PC in favor of materials. b. much easier for CCP to balance and introduce new roles in each suit catagory. c. not risk destroying matchmaking by spreading the playerbase thin with a SP/WP based matchmaking system. Here's a quick response: Primary: A. Newbies should not be in the same match as a vet, anyone saying that a noob and get should be matched up against each other doesn't understand the problem tier-cide is trying to address, competitive balanced fair matches. This is the 100% reversal of encouraging progression! you are just placing the vets in a system similar to what we have now, but now you've made it easier because vets can easily find noobs to match up against. You cant argue for a system then suggest noobs can take on vets easier, they shouldn't be together. B. Spending SP across a wide range of items... Seems to counter everything CCP Devs's have said about wanting linear skill trees, the more you specialize the more successful you are at that role. Spreading SP and creating a tree with many weak branches is about as useful as comment A. Better to be master if a trade than mediocre at everything, so that point is mute too. Secondary: A 2. Prices for suits are fine, no one is having ISK problems and if they are they need to run cheaper suits to counter loses. I run 3 fits: 6k militia Forge gunner, adv scout with DL or RE + std cloak, advanced weapon, pro extenders, and mix of std and adv lows (armor, kin cat, Dampener) both fits are 30-38k. That means in a standard game, where ISK payouts are 250-300k, I can die 5-8 times and run a profit. If ISK becomes a problem, run a cheaper fit in some cases to allow for you to be able to run what you want later. This is the economy, this is what is suppose to occur risk vs reward. Yes, PC is broken, abused, and needs to be 100% remodelled and fixed. B 2. It's not much easier, what you're asking for is a complete overhaul. How do you get off on making ridiculous statements and playing all these things as facts? The suits tiers aren't great there are so many issues more pressing to be addressed. C 2. Matchmaking should 100% be made based on a SP + skill level factor (yes, WP should be a strong factor is such a skill score). This keeps vets away from noobs, the players we should be trying to protect and ease into the game. You can't throw them into the fire based on a tier-cide system, protect them hope they stick around and then bring them into the fold.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 1032	Posted - 2014.05.02 00:27:00 - [27] - Quote And every pro tiericide thread always opens by dismissing any anti-tiercide people and claiming they never make a valid point. When you refuse to ever listen to an opposing opinion any pro-tiercide argument you give is inherently flawed. Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it.... damn you! Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Autoaim Bot514 The Hetairoi 135	Posted - 2014.05.02 00:36:00 - [28] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: Django Quik wrote: Luk Manag wrote: They want to ruin Dust 514 by turning it into a casual arcade shooter that anyone can pick up and have a couple easy rounds and then never play Dust again...because if it is easy and fair more people will like it. Lamesauce. Tiericide does not go anywhere near completely disposing of the skill system, so it's still not even remotely like any casual shooter out there. There would still be skill levels and there would still be some disparity but we'd have less filler at the lower levels (standard suits) and more focus on things that are actually useful that everyone wants to use (proto suits) but can't because it takes 2 months of grind to reach (and that's not including weapons and mods and core skills that actually make a large amount of the difference). We used to have higher SP requirements for various suits and tanks. The SP needed for STD fits of multiple roles are given to every new character, and MLT tanks are perfectly viable as well. I hope for a long term plan to increase the SP tree, with more tiers, and more disparities...not less. You can do a lot with STD everything. The PRO level assault suits used to have 2 equipment slots, and there was endless moaning about how OP that was, all from players who haven't stuck around anyway, so now the PRO assault suit is barely worth the ISK. Ah, so it comes out, you just want to have more stomping power.
Autoaim Bot514 The Hetairoi 137	Posted - 2014.05.02 00:39:00 - [29] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: And every pro tiericide thread always opens by dismissing any anti-tiercide people and claiming they never make a valid point. When you refuse to ever listen to an opposing opinion any pro-tiercide argument you give is inherently flawed. Thats because NONE have provided any valid argument against it or anything to back up their ideas.
Cotsy The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 44	Posted - 2014.05.02 00:42:00 - [30] - Quote I answered your two questions in two separate threads. The bonuses to suits, mods, racial bonus, passive cores, and in particular weapon proficiency will always mean the vet is going to win a gun battle. Even if we assume the noob is a better shot and can land 5-10% more on his target (given both have to be std weapons) he is unable to make up the disadvantage. The disadvantage is cemented when you spawn and the noob isn't going to overcome the disparity afforded by SP. The new player, no matter which suit he runs (he is only going to run assault, ill show you later), will always be visible to the experience player. The new player weapon will always be more erratic and do less damage. He will face CPU/PG issues, issues his counterpart will not face, his suit will also have less Armor and shields no matter what. There are very few situations where the new player is going to overcome the obstacles and enjoy his stomp. I compared a few things, a std Amarr heavy + std HMG is unrealistic and not a viable option for low SP players because of the high SP required to get into lv4-5 tiers even of a x2-3 multiplier. I showed how an experience player using and HMG would have 1114 eHP +15%/+10% resilience bonuses. A std noob assault medium frame (example even M-1) can use 3 extenders and 1 armor and get 435 eHP. Not a fair battle, and the problem is this discrepancy is cemented into a tier system. We can also check out a basic scout frame, unable to equip a cloak as a quick limitation and obvious situation where lack of disparity occurs. Now this scout even if he didn't use a cloak still would be 100% visible, unable to get std Kin Cats (they would take 1/3 of his PG - 10 or 11 of his 31 PG), he would be slower so his movement is compromised, and his role is nullified by his lack of SP. So we can eliminate scouts and heavies, which means less options and even greater disadvantage. So now, you are forced into a disadvantageous situation where there is no adaptability, no variety, no chance. Now, if we considered the fact that a vet would have all options, maximum CPU/PG along with reduction skills in weapon, cloak.. He can run a fully OP shotgun std scout which is fast, invisible, highly mobile and doesn't encounter any real restrictions of CPU/PG which maximize his suit and his advantage because the gap is cemented and in fact widening because they are unable to run equal fittings, equal classes, and never able to nullify bonuses (racial, suit, mods, passive cores, weapons). So this is why things are cemented, they are present, unable to be overcome even by increased skill the vast vast majority of the time. I'm not even gonna get into how unfair it is to take on std tanks as a standard AV'er noob. But at the infantry level its impossible to overcome SP and because the advantages are inherent what happens is that they will be exploited. So matches will be in the current form but players will be able to select a ceiling (such as std suits and std mods) and bets will know exactly where noobs are and destroy them at a greater clip than presently occurring. Squads of NS ambush type elite SP + elite tactics will actually further this disparity than which is currently in the game because they can target these players directly by sorting based on tier type. Ouch, more NPE problems and this one would be worst. I know that is long, but it answers your 2 questions. I would also like to add just because the current system is Broken and you see a way for noobs in std suits and gear to avoid Proto teams does not mean its the best solution. A SP + skilled based system is a superior choice because it inherently keeps vets and noobs apart, for the better. It also means Proto stompers will be matched against similarly skilled and similar SP players capable of running Proto themselves and making matchsd balanced because no team or player would have anything but a marginal advantage over another (given one skill tree is more linear, very a less linear less effective tree). Equally skilled players, capable of running equal suits and fittings, and the battle will be determined by the gameplay and tactics, team work and team composition..etc.. I have more but I'll leave you with that.



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