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Autoaim Bot514
The Hetairoi
137
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Posted - 2014.05.02 00:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:Autoaim Bot514 wrote:
Primary a. New players will have a better chance when going up against vets, but there will be enough of a difference to encourage progression. b. A new player can spend their relatively low number of SP across a wider array of suits if only staying at lvl1. Currently a new player would have to grind for several weeks just to get one protosuit. This will allow the new player to try different roles, and be more flexible in battle.
Secondary a. prices for suits can be drastically lowered, reducing the need for PC isk farms. ISK could then be completely removed form PC in favor of materials. b. much easier for CCP to balance and introduce new roles in each suit catagory. c. not risk destroying matchmaking by spreading the playerbase thin with a SP/WP based matchmaking system.
Here's a quick response: Primary: A. Newbies should not be in the same match as a vet, anyone saying that a noob and get should be matched up against each other doesn't understand the problem tier-cide is trying to address, competitive balanced fair matches. This is the 100% reversal of encouraging progression! you are just placing the vets in a system similar to what we have now, but now you've made it easier because vets can easily find noobs to match up against. You cant argue for a system then suggest noobs can take on vets easier, they shouldn't be together. B. Spending SP across a wide range of items... Seems to counter everything CCP Devs's have said about wanting linear skill trees, the more you specialize the more successful you are at that role. Spreading SP and creating a tree with many weak branches is about as useful as comment A. Better to be master if a trade than mediocre at everything, so that point is mute too. Secondary: A 2. Prices for suits are fine, no one is having ISK problems and if they are they need to run cheaper suits to counter loses. I run 3 fits: 6k militia Forge gunner, adv scout with DL or RE + std cloak, advanced weapon, pro extenders, and mix of std and adv lows (armor, kin cat, Dampener) both fits are 30-38k. That means in a standard game, where ISK payouts are 250-300k, I can die 5-8 times and run a profit. If ISK becomes a problem, run a cheaper fit in some cases to allow for you to be able to run what you want later. This is the economy, this is what is suppose to occur risk vs reward. Yes, PC is broken, abused, and needs to be 100% remodelled and fixed. B 2. It's not much easier, what you're asking for is a complete overhaul. How do you get off on making ridiculous statements and playing all these things as facts? The suits tiers aren't great there are so many issues more pressing to be addressed. C 2. Matchmaking should 100% be made based on a SP + skill level factor (yes, WP should be a strong factor is such a skill score). This keeps vets away from noobs, the players we should be trying to protect and ease into the game. You can't throw them into the fire based on a tier-cide system, protect them hope they stick around and then bring them into the fold.
1. Newbies and vets should be in the same matches. Anything else goes against the sandbox nature of new eden. 2. By spreading at a low level, itll allow new players to try something before they commit all their points into it, and give them some flexibility. What about that is so hard to understand, or is bad for the game overall? CCP never said we would be limited to one role. also, "moot" 3.Prices for suits are terrible, because only those who receive PC welfare checks can run proto in pubs, thus pubstomp. So fix PC, and fix the suits. 4. Its not an overhaul, its just removing things which are useless. Not having to create 2 extra suits everytime you want to add a new role means CCP can spend time working on other content or balancing content already in the game. 5. SP/WP matchmaking only serves to segregate this already small community. Have fun waiting 10 minutes or longer to find a pub match.
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
1032
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Posted - 2014.05.02 00:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:And every pro tiericide thread always opens by dismissing any anti-tiercide people and claiming they never make a valid point. When you refuse to ever listen to an opposing opinion any pro-tiercide argument you give is inherently flawed. Thats because NONE have provided any valid argument against it or anything to back up their ideas.
No one would ever be able to make a valid argument in your eyes as you have already made up your mind. Just because you have a set of beliefs on a subject doesn't mean yours is the only correct way of looking at it.
Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it.... damn you!
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
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Miokai Zahou
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
229
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Posted - 2014.05.02 00:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:And every pro tiericide thread always opens by dismissing any anti-tiercide people and claiming they never make a valid point. When you refuse to ever listen to an opposing opinion any pro-tiercide argument you give is inherently flawed. Thats because NONE have provided any valid argument against it or anything to back up their ideas.
Ok here is my valid argument then.
Teircide is a disease that needs to be put down now before it gets out of hand. This game and the developers need to focus on more pressing matters such as PVE, player market and releasing the rest of the racial wepons (fan fest hopefully). Once those issue are out of the way they then need to look into increasing players in matches and working on improving the frame rate (if possible).
Until then stop talking about this silly far far into the future Teircide nonsense and focus on the current issues that are immediately lacking. (Note I'm not against the idea but what I'm against is taking dev time away from more crucial areas the game needs right now).
Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
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Cotsy
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
44
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Posted - 2014.05.02 00:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:And every pro tiericide thread always opens by dismissing any anti-tiercide people and claiming they never make a valid point. When you refuse to ever listen to an opposing opinion any pro-tiercide argument you give is inherently flawed.
There is no real problem with a tier-cide when it matches veterans with veterans. Both would have equally developed skill trees, equal most everything with only separation being based on how Linear A skill tree is and how well team compositions are, both positives. The system would make Proto vs Proto and adv vs adv matches, which are perfectly fair and balanced.
There are a few problems with this, one vets have no interest in competing vs one another (you can see this by the mass exodus of good players when they see good opponents)., and secondly vets do not want to go 12/12 continuously in a match because they are balanced. Thst same 12/12 player in a balanced march would rather to 18-4 in a non balanced match. Everyone wants to succeed, no one wants the constant grind and hardship of balance. They want easy mode matches, easy mode cloaks, one shot SG, tanks and ADS that repair armor faster than you can deplete it. You are going against a self interested community who run FOTM and complain about snipers and red lines. Snipers, who shoot pillows now, and the redline which they want removed so they can stomp you 0.05 seconds after you spawn and just want to spawn trap you for 120 of the 150 required kills.
Ok given that, the tier-cide system fails apart at the mlt and std levels. Regardless of BPO's or whatever else players are arguing. The systems flaws exploit, reinforce, expands on the current flawed system and even goes as far to provide a giant red flashing arrow sign where to find the most vulnerable of players. The system may not be a improvement but a step backwards.
So, a SP + skill based system is superior in every way but one, vets don't want to take on each other and also if we continue to alienate New Players there will be a giant gap in low tier membership. |
Autoaim Bot514
The Hetairoi
137
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Posted - 2014.05.02 00:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:I answered your two questions in two separate threads.
The bonuses to suits, mods, racial bonus, passive cores, and in particular weapon proficiency will always mean the vet is going to win a gun battle. Even if we assume the noob is a better shot and can land 5-10% more on his target (given both have to be std weapons) he is unable to make up the disadvantage. The disadvantage is cemented when you spawn and the noob isn't going to overcome the disparity afforded by SP.
The new player, no matter which suit he runs (he is only going to run assault, ill show you later), will always be visible to the experience player. The new player weapon will always be more erratic and do less damage. He will face CPU/PG issues, issues his counterpart will not face, his suit will also have less Armor and shields no matter what. There are very few situations where the new player is going to overcome the obstacles and enjoy his stomp.
Wall of text, so I will try to discern meaning here.
Even though a new and vet player wouldnt have the exact same fitting power, they would be more comparable in terms of fitting, putting a greater dependence on personal skill, not gear. A proto suit with basic mods has a smaller gap than a standard suit with basic mods. Atleast with tiericide new players have a chance to do something other than get farmed.
What you propose will actually kill the game by spreading the community too thin. |
Cotsy
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
44
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Posted - 2014.05.02 00:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
I agree with Zahou, just not on what is pressing matters.
1. Core gameplay issues: Frame rate issues, lag, FPS/Vehicle controls and mechanics, lighting issues, etc.
2. matchmaking
3. Additional content: more maps, more game modes, class/race parity, all racial equipment/vehicles, |
Autoaim Bot514
The Hetairoi
137
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Posted - 2014.05.02 00:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Miokai Zahou wrote:Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:And every pro tiericide thread always opens by dismissing any anti-tiercide people and claiming they never make a valid point. When you refuse to ever listen to an opposing opinion any pro-tiercide argument you give is inherently flawed. Thats because NONE have provided any valid argument against it or anything to back up their ideas. Ok here is my valid argument then. Teircide is a disease that needs to be put down now before it gets out of hand. This game and the developers need to focus on more pressing matters such as PVE, player market and releasing the rest of the racial wepons (fan fest hopefully). Once those issue are out of the way they then need to look into increasing players in matches and working on improving the frame rate (if possible). Until then stop talking about this silly far far into the future Teircide nonsense and focus on the current issues that are immediately lacking. (Note I'm not against the idea but what I'm against is taking dev time away from more crucial areas the game needs right now).
There wont be a game to add stuff to when no new players stay more than a week. |
Cotsy
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
44
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Posted - 2014.05.02 01:13:00 -
[38] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Miokai Zahou wrote:Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:And every pro tiericide thread always opens by dismissing any anti-tiercide people and claiming they never make a valid point. When you refuse to ever listen to an opposing opinion any pro-tiercide argument you give is inherently flawed. Thats because NONE have provided any valid argument against it or anything to back up their ideas. Ok here is my valid argument then. Teircide is a disease that needs to be put down now before it gets out of hand. This game and the developers need to focus on more pressing matters such as PVE, player market and releasing the rest of the racial wepons (fan fest hopefully). Once those issue are out of the way they then need to look into increasing players in matches and working on improving the frame rate (if possible). Until then stop talking about this silly far far into the future Teircide nonsense and focus on the current issues that are immediately lacking. (Note I'm not against the idea but what I'm against is taking dev time away from more crucial areas the game needs right now). There wont be a game to add stuff to when no new players stay more than a week.
Yup, but first we need to keep ppl from bailing who are playing currently |
Miokai Zahou
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
229
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 01:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Miokai Zahou wrote:Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:And every pro tiericide thread always opens by dismissing any anti-tiercide people and claiming they never make a valid point. When you refuse to ever listen to an opposing opinion any pro-tiercide argument you give is inherently flawed. Thats because NONE have provided any valid argument against it or anything to back up their ideas. Ok here is my valid argument then. Teircide is a disease that needs to be put down now before it gets out of hand. This game and the developers need to focus on more pressing matters such as PVE, player market and releasing the rest of the racial wepons (fan fest hopefully). Once those issue are out of the way they then need to look into increasing players in matches and working on improving the frame rate (if possible). Until then stop talking about this silly far far into the future Teircide nonsense and focus on the current issues that are immediately lacking. (Note I'm not against the idea but what I'm against is taking dev time away from more crucial areas the game needs right now). There wont be a game to add stuff to when no new players stay more than a week.
That is why PVE and player market needs to be introduced as soon as possible. The reason for this logic is that it will elevate the issues of new people having a hard time in matches by letting them do missions (quests) for SP and isk and also helps them understand how to shoot, control their merc and group up with friends to remove those nasty drone npcs/guards.
The concept is to give players choice besides getting stomped on in matches.. With tanks... lots of damn tanks. Having a revamp on the core values on suits very well and good but it will not overall help the growth of this game if people can't chose to go out there and earn isk another way besides afking in the mcc.
I remember when I first started I got head stomped by a proto player but thought that was ok because I could go and do a mission and learn how to play while earming some isk on the sidet... wait no missions? Ok... how about I go and sell the loot I gained at the end of the match... no market to sell to mercs? .... riiiight crap ok hard mode hat on.
As you can tell I'm an eve player for many, many wonderful years and right now this game needs choice and not teircide, not yet anyway.
Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM Top Men.
1251
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Posted - 2014.05.02 01:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
An addendum to my previous post.
Along with unlocking more skills, the suits would have different skills based off of the racial dropsuit skill. For example, Amarr Dropsuits skill unlocks basic light, medium, and heavy dropsuits. The light dropsuits would have 5% increased sprint speed per level of Amarr Dropsuit, medium Amarr dropsuits would have 5% reduced heat buildup of laser weapons per level of Amarr Dropsuit, and Amarr heavies gets 5% to armor plate efficiency per level of Amarr Dropsuits.
So taking Amarr Dropsuit to level 5 gets you max efficiency out of all basic Amarr dropsuits, rather than having to get level 5 in 3 different skills.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Autoaim Bot514
The Hetairoi
139
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Posted - 2014.05.02 01:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
Miokai Zahou wrote:Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Miokai Zahou wrote:Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:And every pro tiericide thread always opens by dismissing any anti-tiercide people and claiming they never make a valid point. When you refuse to ever listen to an opposing opinion any pro-tiercide argument you give is inherently flawed. Thats because NONE have provided any valid argument against it or anything to back up their ideas. Ok here is my valid argument then. Teircide is a disease that needs to be put down now before it gets out of hand. This game and the developers need to focus on more pressing matters such as PVE, player market and releasing the rest of the racial wepons (fan fest hopefully). Once those issue are out of the way they then need to look into increasing players in matches and working on improving the frame rate (if possible). Until then stop talking about this silly far far into the future Teircide nonsense and focus on the current issues that are immediately lacking. (Note I'm not against the idea but what I'm against is taking dev time away from more crucial areas the game needs right now). There wont be a game to add stuff to when no new players stay more than a week. That is why PVE and player market needs to be introduced as soon as possible. The reason for this logic is that it will elevate the issues of new people having a hard time in matches by letting them do missions (quests) for SP and isk and also helps them understand how to shoot, control their merc and group up with friends to remove those nasty drone npcs/guards. The concept is to give players choice besides getting stomped on in matches.. With tanks... lots of damn tanks. Having a revamp on the core values on suits very well and good but it will not overall help the growth of this game if people can't chose to go out there and earn isk another way besides afking in the mcc. I remember when I first started I got head stomped by a proto player but thought that was ok because I could go and do a mission and learn how to play while earming some isk on the sidet... wait no missions? Ok... how about I go and sell the loot I gained at the end of the match... no market to sell to mercs? .... riiiight crap ok hard mode hat on. As you can tell I'm an eve player for many, many wonderful years and right now this game needs choice and not teircide, not yet anyway.
You really think CCP will do 100% safe PVE? LOL think again. |
Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2116
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Posted - 2014.05.02 01:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Because tiercide sucks
Vehicles are supposed to have it, yet it sucks and i have the slots layout of an old mlt tank
vehicles were already tiercided. They just ****** them up.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Miokai Zahou
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
229
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Posted - 2014.05.02 01:48:00 -
[43] - Quote
I never said that. I said there needs to be a choice besides just shooting each other in the face. Why can't we go and group up with friends/corpmates shooting npcs while helping the new guy/girl understand the game better?
Missions shouldn't be 100% safe and having an external party crash down on a mission would be awesome. Three way fire fights and all.
Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
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Yan Darn
Science For Death Final Resolution.
752
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Posted - 2014.05.02 06:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
Miokai Zahou wrote:Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:And every pro tiericide thread always opens by dismissing any anti-tiercide people and claiming they never make a valid point. When you refuse to ever listen to an opposing opinion any pro-tiercide argument you give is inherently flawed. Thats because NONE have provided any valid argument against it or anything to back up their ideas. Ok here is my valid argument then. Teircide is a disease that needs to be put down now before it gets out of hand. This game and the developers need to focus on more pressing matters such as PVE, player market and releasing the rest of the racial wepons (fan fest hopefully). Once those issue are out of the way they then need to look into increasing players in matches and working on improving the frame rate (if possible). Until then stop talking about this silly far far into the future Teircide nonsense and focus on the current issues that are immediately lacking. (Note I'm not against the idea but what I'm against is taking dev time away from more crucial areas the game needs right now).
I agree the introducing player markets and PVE needs to be done ASAP.
You don't think having to constantly try and balance things against 3 tiers of suits will slow down the implementation of any future features, modes, content etc.?
Sooner tiercide is introduced the sooner the Devs benefit from not having to balance what is essentially fluff/illusionary content.
The Ghost of Bravo
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