This video was OK, most of them I don't agree with any of your view points. You need to update your video with you watching people decloak and fire, and movement while cloaked. Your friends with some of the youtubers you can get two video feeds and add them to your video.

I like Judges vids but he kinda hyperfocues too much on details and doesn't see everything else.

Let me tell you why this comment is wrong.

You assert that judge is missing something, but you do not go over what it is and in doing so your entire statement is without merit and definitely doesn't promote any type of discussion.

when it comes to solutions he doesnt see everything else, i should have said that my mistake.

Like my nose, I don't see the point of this video. Honestly, aside from "firing while cloaked is a thing and it is my opinion it should change" I don't see a reason to make this video. Every game ever that has some kind of stealth system give first attack/mover advantage; many even give 'backstab' bonuses. In my opinion, Judge is just stating the obvious here that no one should really be surprised to hear; "being able to get a 'flank'/surprise attack in most every situation is powerful." He might as well have said "only having 10 HP makes it difficult to survive in this game."

Judge's videos are always entertaining and the level of dedication to the community is commendable but if I may ask Judge: "Why did you make this video if not for the 'Cloaked Fire' or to reiterate the Toupee Fallacy from the previous video?"

when it comes to solutions he doesnt see everything else, i should have said that my mistake.

He shows the situation as it is, and explains why it is the way it is.

It is done in this way so as to encourage the viewer to actually use their own brain and reach the correct conclusion.

Then again, some people reject the very concept of thinking.

If I might say so, your thoughts surrounding Judge seem to more accurately reflect Pyrex who is much more well known for saying "this is broken, flip a table screw you all".

LOL so Judge is still making some merc's panties wet by his accent eh?

OK, other side of the coin, you are to check your surroundings and know that when hacking an objective, ANYBODY can sneak up on you unseen cloak or not and get damage points in before you have a time to react. That is the risk you take when hacking a supply depot or a NULL cannon.

So that's a very poor example for the "getting a shot off before decloaked" problem.

Another side of the coin, its the mechanics of war. Fairness is pretty much the last bullet point on the list, if not at all.

If the mercenary was moving around, as he should have been, while hacking, his chance of survival are increased by small percentage. That's still worth it compared to just standing there and hacking, allowing any enemy to get a decent amount of damage on you before you react.

LOL so Judge is still making some merc's panties wet by his accent eh?

OK, other side of the coin, you are to check your surroundings and know that when hacking an objective, ANYBODY can sneak up on you unseen cloak or not and get damage points in before you have a time to react. That is the risk you take when hacking a supply depot or a NULL cannon.

So that's a very poor example for the "getting a shot off before decloaked" problem.

Another side of the coin, its the mechanics of war. Fairness is pretty much the last bullet point on the list, if not at all.

If the mercenary was moving around, as he should have been, while hacking, his chance of survival are increased by small percentage. That's still worth it compared to just standing there and hacking, allowing any enemy to get a decent amount of damage on you before you react.

I say this with no ill will. I'm just stating the truth here.

Nothing can be said to you guys because whatever Judge says, you guys go with it. And if someone disagrees, you guys either attack the difference of opinion without understanding it, just equating it to mudslinging instead of valid points.

OR

Dismiss it all together.

I'm smart enough to understand its a test. But its a poor test. The fact remains, when someone is hacking the supply depot, you're vulnerable to many things, not just a cloaked scout who can get a shot off before he decloaks.

Seeing that as his first example just doesn't make sense to me. How can we have a valid discussion on the matter when his first "test" shows a mercenary who just stands out a supply depot with his back turned?

Not only that, but the mercenary sat with his back towards the open field. THE OPEN FIELD! LOL! That's asking for trouble. He could have been FG'd. Sniped from the tower. Blasted from a HMG. Bombarded by a dropship. Blown apart by a well tossed grenade.

He didn't even need to cloak to get to that CalAss player. So again, its a poor example for a test.

So until you guys are able to accept differences opinions, then you guys will no longer get a broader scope to the picture. Judge makes a video and its final with you guys. No one else can say anything else to it. Unless of course, that person is praising then its alright.

Lets break down what scouts have that other suits don't (particularly medium suits):

Best scanning precision
Best scan profile
Best speed
Best use of Cloak
Best hitbox

*Honorable mentions:
Second highest number of Equipment slots
Some of the highest PG and CPU

What scouts give up for this:
Less HP

Is this really balanced? For real?

So you can always spot a shimmer when you can? This is another example of the Toupee Fallacy. The Toupee Fallacy can be summed up by the following phrase: "All toupees look fake; I've never seen one that I couldn't tell was fake".

Source: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Toupee_fallacy

So if you saw a convincing one you wouldn't be able to see that it's a fake toupee. The same applies to the cloak shimmer. The shimmer is only apparent to you as long as you catch it which implies there is also potentially equally many moments when you are unable to see a cloak shimmer especially given how the human eye functions.

Believe it or not, your eyes and mind play tricks on you. I have studied quite a bit on human anatomy so I know a few things about this. The mind and eyes work together to filter out parts of the world you see that the mind thinks is irrelevant to you. Here is a little trick you can do to confirm this. You can do this at home on your free time.

Look at your monitor and set it so that you have a white background. Cover one eye and make a pin-size hole with your index and your thumb to look through while facing the monitor's white background. Now shake that pin-size hole up and down. Notice anything odd emerging? Perhaps you're seeing black lines that look like veins or capillaries on the white background. Believe it or not, those really are your veins you're seeing. In the human eye, the veins cut in front of the light receptors of the retina of your eye (the cylinders and cones). As light passes through the veins it creates a shadow on the recepters. The mind knows this and considers the veins as irrelevant to what the eye is really trying to see. So the mind filters out the shadows produced by the veins by overlaying parts of the scenery that you see over those shadows to compensate. This also explains why you have a blind spot on both of your eyes which can cause you to miss things like the shimmer of a cloak.

Think about it. For every moment you spot a shimmer, there is also an equal (if not greater) number of moments when you didn't see the shimmer. Thus the toupee fallacy comes to mind when someone says "I could see the shimmer just fine".

Out of that whole video, you chose to make a point about the ONE guy standing still hacking a depot. What about the others? What about the guys who "saw" him before he attacked and still got beat? Bad gun-game? That would be plausible if they were actually shooting near him in the first place, but they didnt know where he was, even after they "saw" him

LOL so Judge is still making some merc's panties wet by his accent eh?

OK, other side of the coin, you are to check your surroundings and know that when hacking an objective, ANYBODY can sneak up on you unseen cloak or not and get damage points in before you have a time to react. That is the risk you take when hacking a supply depot or a NULL cannon.

So that's a very poor example for the "getting a shot off before decloaked" problem.

Another side of the coin, its the mechanics of war. Fairness is pretty much the last bullet point on the list, if not at all.

If the mercenary was moving around, as he should have been, while hacking, his chance of survival are increased by small percentage. That's still worth it compared to just standing there and hacking, allowing any enemy to get a decent amount of damage on you before you react.

I say this with no ill will. I'm just stating the truth here.

Nothing can be said to you guys because whatever Judge says, you guys go with it. And if someone disagrees, you guys either attack the difference of opinion without understanding it, just equating it to mudslinging instead of valid points.

OR

Dismiss it all together.

I'm smart enough to understand its a test. But its a poor test. The fact remains, when someone is hacking the supply depot, you're vulnerable to many things, not just a cloaked scout who can get a shot off before he decloaks.

Seeing that as his first example just doesn't make sense to me. How can we have a valid discussion on the matter when his first "test" shows a mercenary who just stands out a supply depot with his back turned?

Not only that, but the mercenary sat with his back towards the open field. THE OPEN FIELD! LOL! That's asking for trouble. He could have been FG'd. Sniped from the tower. Blasted from a HMG. Bombarded by a dropship. Blown apart by a well tossed grenade.

He didn't even need to cloak to get to that CalAss player. So again, its a poor example for a test.

So until you guys are able to accept differences opinions, then you guys will no longer get a broader scope to the picture. Judge makes a video and its final with you guys. No one else can say anything else to it. Unless of course, that person is praising then its alright.

Here's another video about Cloaking done by Judge. Still no comment, but judge it for yourself.

Also, I hope you don't mind me posting these videos on the forums Judge. I like posting these to get player feedback and bring up discussion which in my opinion is a great way to get multiple opinions and insights.

The First Mover
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj8vXTqgw1M


Recap for the previous video and discussion can be found here

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=156109

So you didn't actually read what I said did you? Just admit it.

The hacker example is purely about amount of shots while cloaked.

Read that like 50 times until you understand it. It has nothing to do with the sneaking aspect, or the stealth while moving, or frontal assault, or anything else. Get it through your head.

Cloaks should never be used for assaults, EVER, it's a disgusting mechanic.
Cloaking should be kept strictly for traversing the map and gathering intel, and maybe even getting to a good flank spot, but never to give you an advantage on top of what a flank would give you.


Scouts have incredibly strong EWAR and speed, they should pay for that with combat effectiveness vs assaults, but the cloak takes away whatever advantage the enemy had.

I say this with no ill will. I'm just stating the truth here.

Nothing can be said to you guys because whatever Judge says, you guys go with it. And if someone disagrees, you guys either attack the difference of opinion without understanding it, just equating it to mudslinging instead of valid points.

OR

Dismiss it all together.

I'm smart enough to understand its a test. But its a poor test. The fact remains, when someone is hacking the supply depot, you're vulnerable to many things, not just a cloaked scout who can get a shot off before he decloaks.

Seeing that as his first example just doesn't make sense to me. How can we have a valid discussion on the matter when his first "test" shows a mercenary who just stands out a supply depot with his back turned?

Not only that, but the mercenary sat with his back towards the open field. THE OPEN FIELD! LOL! That's asking for trouble. He could have been FG'd. Sniped from the tower. Blasted from a HMG. Bombarded by a dropship. Blown apart by a well tossed grenade.

He didn't even need to cloak to get to that CalAss player. So again, its a poor example for a test.

So until you guys are able to accept differences opinions, then you guys will no longer get a broader scope to the picture. Judge makes a video and its final with you guys. No one else can say anything else to it. Unless of course, that person is praising then its alright.

this post makes me want to skill into the laser rifle just so I can watch you chase it around the map.

"Cloaks should never be used for assaults..." says you. I see "real" assaults, logis and even commandos use cloaks. what's their role?

"Cloaking should be kept strictly for bla bla bla..."this makes me cringe when i read this, you're just telling people how to play the "right way" while CCP gives tons of creative freedom (the most in any online fps ive ever played) to play how we want.


"Scouts have incredibly strong EWAR and speed, they should pay for that with combat effectiveness vs assaults, but the cloak takes away whatever advantage the enemy had"

OK, you're not wrong on this point but I will say that you're forgetting the most powerful tool in Dust. teamwork. not even trolling here. a Passive scanning fit Cal scout or active Gal logi can easily see through most cloaks. And the best part: All the information is shared between squad mates.

You're not listening to me man and its right there for you to re-read.

I know what the test is about. It's obvious that I know in the post I have up there prior to this one. Why my story doesn't change.

If you see the scout...repeat this with me now...if you see the scout, a scout shooting first before de-cloaking doesn't even matter. You see the scout!!!!

LOL I don't know how else to say that to you. Awareness is key. Awareness nullifies the fact that the scout can shoot before decloaking

One more time...say this with me now...

Awareness nullfiies the fact that the scout can shoot before decloaking. It won't matter since you would have the drop on the scout instead of the scout having the drop on you.

Do you understand that? Seriously I don't you think you do. All you hear is Michael Arck doesn't like Judge's video. Michael Arck doesn't know what he's talking about. That's all you reading in my posts and that's all you hear.

Its like talking to a brick wall here.

Okay, than you did not understand the test.... that statement you made just proves it. Its not about seeing them on the first test it about if you decloak after your first shot with a weapon. You do not decloak after your first shot with a weapon which was proven in the video. You can have the greatest awareness in the world but you dont decloak after you fire your weapon. (at least not after the first few rounds)

arguing with you is like arguing with a woman....just all over the place. You got it man. I had enough of this. You just don't get it.

arguing with you is like arguing with a woman....just all over the place. You got it man. I had enough of this. You just don't get it.