Guys, how did you miss this

Like my nose, I don't see the point of this video. Honestly, aside from "firing while cloaked is a thing and it is my opinion it should change" I don't see a reason to make this video. Every game ever that has some kind of stealth system give first attack/mover advantage; many even give 'backstab' bonuses. In my opinion, Judge is just stating the obvious here that no one should really be surprised to hear; "being able to get a 'flank'/surprise attack in most every situation is powerful." He might as well have said "only having 10 HP makes it difficult to survive in this game."

Judge's videos are always entertaining and the level of dedication to the community is commendable but if I may ask Judge: "Why did you make this video if not for the 'Cloaked Fire' or to reiterate the Toupee Fallacy from the previous video?"

He shows the situation as it is, and explains why it is the way it is.

It is done in this way so as to encourage the viewer to actually use their own brain and reach the correct conclusion.

Then again, some people reject the very concept of thinking.

If I might say so, your thoughts surrounding Judge seem to more accurately reflect Pyrex who is much more well known for saying "this is broken, flip a table screw you all".

LOL so Judge is still making some merc's panties wet by his accent eh?

OK, other side of the coin, you are to check your surroundings and know that when hacking an objective, ANYBODY can sneak up on you unseen cloak or not and get damage points in before you have a time to react. That is the risk you take when hacking a supply depot or a NULL cannon.

So that's a very poor example for the "getting a shot off before decloaked" problem.

Another side of the coin, its the mechanics of war. Fairness is pretty much the last bullet point on the list, if not at all.

If the mercenary was moving around, as he should have been, while hacking, his chance of survival are increased by small percentage. That's still worth it compared to just standing there and hacking, allowing any enemy to get a decent amount of damage on you before you react.

I say this with no ill will. I'm just stating the truth here.

Nothing can be said to you guys because whatever Judge says, you guys go with it. And if someone disagrees, you guys either attack the difference of opinion without understanding it, just equating it to mudslinging instead of valid points.

OR

Dismiss it all together.

I'm smart enough to understand its a test. But its a poor test. The fact remains, when someone is hacking the supply depot, you're vulnerable to many things, not just a cloaked scout who can get a shot off before he decloaks.

Seeing that as his first example just doesn't make sense to me. How can we have a valid discussion on the matter when his first "test" shows a mercenary who just stands out a supply depot with his back turned?

Not only that, but the mercenary sat with his back towards the open field. THE OPEN FIELD! LOL! That's asking for trouble. He could have been FG'd. Sniped from the tower. Blasted from a HMG. Bombarded by a dropship. Blown apart by a well tossed grenade.

He didn't even need to cloak to get to that CalAss player. So again, its a poor example for a test.

So until you guys are able to accept differences opinions, then you guys will no longer get a broader scope to the picture. Judge makes a video and its final with you guys. No one else can say anything else to it. Unless of course, that person is praising then its alright.

this post makes me want to skill into the laser rifle just so I can watch you chase it around the map.

"Cloaks should never be used for assaults..." says you. I see "real" assaults, logis and even commandos use cloaks. what's their role?

"Cloaking should be kept strictly for bla bla bla..."this makes me cringe when i read this, you're just telling people how to play the "right way" while CCP gives tons of creative freedom (the most in any online fps ive ever played) to play how we want.


"Scouts have incredibly strong EWAR and speed, they should pay for that with combat effectiveness vs assaults, but the cloak takes away whatever advantage the enemy had"

OK, you're not wrong on this point but I will say that you're forgetting the most powerful tool in Dust. teamwork. not even trolling here. a Passive scanning fit Cal scout or active Gal logi can easily see through most cloaks. And the best part: All the information is shared between squad mates.

You're not listening to me man and its right there for you to re-read.

I know what the test is about. It's obvious that I know in the post I have up there prior to this one. Why my story doesn't change.

If you see the scout...repeat this with me now...if you see the scout, a scout shooting first before de-cloaking doesn't even matter. You see the scout!!!!

LOL I don't know how else to say that to you. Awareness is key. Awareness nullifies the fact that the scout can shoot before decloaking

One more time...say this with me now...

Awareness nullfiies the fact that the scout can shoot before decloaking. It won't matter since you would have the drop on the scout instead of the scout having the drop on you.

Do you understand that? Seriously I don't you think you do. All you hear is Michael Arck doesn't like Judge's video. Michael Arck doesn't know what he's talking about. That's all you reading in my posts and that's all you hear.

Its like talking to a brick wall here.

arguing with you is like arguing with a woman....just all over the place. You got it man. I had enough of this. You just don't get it.

"if the mercenary has seen the scout cloaked, moving with a shimmer, then IT WOULDN'T MATTER IF THE SCOUT GOT THE SHOT OFF BEFORE DECLOAKING OR NOT!!!!!"


Judge has repeatedly demonstrated that relying on the shimmer effect to detect scouts is often flat out impossible.

In fact, he devoted an entire video to it. Here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSBICx2yyZo

Furthermore, in his GÇ£First MoverGÇ¥ video, he engages several opponents who become aware of his presence head on. The results of those engagements speak for themselves.

I thought it was a really good video. BUT why didn't he give an opinion on if he thinks the cloak is OP or not? is he scared?

I don't think we really can test it until the bug is fixed. How much of the advantage is simply caused by this? I don'
t know but cloaked scouts are not gamebreakers. I see plenty of them still dying a lot. Clearly scouts have favorable stats right now, but they aren't a whole class dominating everyone else.

Just going to point out two things here,

1.) CCP was going to release the cloak with the ability to fire cloaked without decloaking. In my eyes the cloakers should keep a first mover advantage.

2.) The video does not show him being attacked by cloakers, or the shimmer effects from a victums perspective, or a frame by frame breakdown of the damage received to him on a scout decloaking. The video is incompletely, yet even if it did come out in favor of the cloaker (Which I believe it will) see option 1.)

Mosty people don't know, the cloak was designed to be fired cloaked.. To eat up the cloak meter in turn preventing the cloaker the ability to recloak again. Then leaving the cloaker at a disadvange if he is spotted or cannot find cover. We never was given the option to experience this gameplay and if we did most of the forum posters are so one dimensional they wouldn't understand it anyways.

Just saying,

On your first point, CCP did originally intend to allow firing the first shot while cloaked. However the community responded as making the cloak OP due to shotgun users. CCP later on, as noted on their dev blogs, withdrew that idea and instead restricted it to having the cortex active at all times in order to maintain cloak.

Clearly the cloak-shotgun issue somehow reared its ugly head in this update when it shouldn't have.

Sorry for not cutting this down, but I'm on a phone.

Basically - while the original idea was to fire from cloak, the CPM/Players argues that the very principal would harm the game. At least that was my interpretation of the debate back then.

In the dev blog, I haven't noticed anything about immediate deactivation - that is the ability to instantly to decloak and fire (like stealth bombers in eve) just 'deactivation'.

They mention pressing fire to deactivate and that is basically the only time there is a delay before you can fire. That is why no one presses R1 - you switch weapon instead. It makes no sense to me that one method would have a delay and another doesn't, which makes me think the animation is supposed to play out even when switching weapons.

It's not improbable that CCP would let that kind of obvious glitch pass them by. Look at all the crap that happenend with the STD gal scouts...

Minor Treat, The original bonuses on the scouts that where pulled from the test server. I don't like your attitude so you can do the leg work to find the screenshots.

Caldari Scout Bonus: 5% reduction to firing cloak cost per level. Also there talks from the devs that all but the Sniper Rifle could fire under cloak. The original design allowed you to aim with your gun, I don't remember if they mentioned the ADS working.

The community had a @#$@ fit about it.. And the design was scrapped because the amount of people that assumed the gameplay would be horrible. Honestly, I would of liked to play that version of the game to see what they where testing. If it was for the better we will never know now, yet most people don't hear the decloak sound or can understand the shimmer effect.

So all you cloak haters, the cloak was delivered pre-nerfed. You give this community a inch, they will take a mile and beat your mom and spit in your face... Just saying.

QQ is the most powerful weapon in this game, hands down.