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Balancing Scout + A small Possible Buff to Assault

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Ridire Greine 298	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:05:00 - [1] - Quote Scout suit. Increase the Scout Profile up from 35db, to 45db, this is 5db below that of an Assault suit. What exactly would this do? Players would be more inclined to fit Dampening Modules in their lows instead of an armour tank. Cloaks Standard Cloak - 10% Reduction to Profile ADV Cloak - 15% Reduction to Profile Proto Cloak - 20% Reduction to Profile There is currently no point to fit anything past the Standard Cloak unless your intention is to use it as a Combat item or to camp a corner. A Standard item should not give a 25% Reduction to Profile and a Cloaking ability, ever. Bonus Just an idea, but change the bonus from: 15% Reduction to the CPU / PG Consumption of Cloaks per level. Standard Cloak - 160 / 35 to 40 / 9 Advanced Cloak - 231 / 49 to 58 / 13 Prototype Cloak - 330 / 70 to 83 / 18 To: 5% Reduction to the CPU / PG Consumption of Biotic Modules per level. Complex Kin Cats - 27 / 15 to 21 / 12 Complex Cardiacs - 12 / 8 to 9 / 7 Complex Myos - 51 / 3 to 39 / 2 or 3 don't know how that works out What would this do? It would further intice people not to fill their slots with tanking modules, but instead with Biotics. OR 10% Reduction to the CPU / PG Consumption of Cloaks per level Standard Cloak - 160 / 35 to 80 / 18 Advanced Cloak - 231 / 49 to 116 / 25 Prototype Cloak - 330 / 70 to 165 / 35 What would this do? It would make Cloaks more of a pain to fit, making them harder to fit with Combat modules, or Prototype weapons, restricting the user's combat ability. And as for a small possible buff to Assaults, increase their Equip count from 1 -> 2 at Advanced and Prototype levels. Any good reason why this shouldn't be done? I'd just like to say: inb4 "QQ U CNT C CLACKS" "Should've gone to Specsavers" "Scrub, do u evn lift?" and all the other insults people may throw at me for poking the Cloaks which seem to be a very touchy subject. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
buzzzzzzz killllllllll TRA1LBLAZERS 474	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:12:00 - [2] - Quote please stop making these threads? Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
Ridire Greine 298	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:13:00 - [3] - Quote buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? Never. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5212	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:19:00 - [4] - Quote Better option. We used to have 45dB and it was awful because you literally couldn't hide from anything. The best solution is to leave the profile as-is, but reduce the dampening bonus on cloaks to 10 or 15%, which would have the same result while weakning the cloak's advantages rather than negating most of the value of a lot of Scout fittings. You're trying to nerf ALL Scout suits because of ONE specific fitting you don't like. Stop, think about it seriously, then come back with a good idea instead of one that's not only bad, but already been tried.
Ridire Greine 298	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:22:00 - [5] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Better option. We used to have 45dB and it was awful because you literally couldn't hide from anything. The best solution is to leave the profile as-is, but reduce the dampening bonus on cloaks to 10 or 15%, which would have the same result while weakning the cloak's advantages rather than negating most of the value of a lot of Scout fittings. You're trying to nerf ALL Scout suits because of ONE specific fitting you don't like. Stop, think about it seriously, then come back with a good idea instead of one that's not only bad, but already been tried. Only thing I couldn't hide from with a 45db was a Focused Scan. You only need one Basic, and one Complex dampener to dodge Non-Gallente Proto Scans with a 45db, thats two slots, 0 PG, and a low number of CPU. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 5968	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:28:00 - [6] - Quote 1:The lowered sig is there to counter the loss of a bonus, not only that but there are plenty of things that can pick up a scout as is, especially if they're foolish enough to have no PD in the low. 2:Biotic bonus isn't as helpful as you seem to think, especially with the stamina we have now, along with the 'slow down effect' of being shot. 2 (2): brick tanking is not a scout problem, I leave it at that. 3:take it from a Proto scout, fitting a suit isn't easy while using a cloak, even at proto level, the reduction is mostly for newer scouts trying to get their feet wet I think, reducing the bonus hits them the hardest, not a good thing. 3(2): besides that reducing the combat ability of any suit/class in a shooter is a bad idea period, it's not smart now, it wasn't smart in builds past, more counters for a class or gear is generally the better route to go. 4:The second equipment slot on the assault was removed for a reason, and a valid one at that, I don't see it coming back any time soon. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5213	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:30:00 - [7] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Better option. We used to have 45dB and it was awful because you literally couldn't hide from anything. The best solution is to leave the profile as-is, but reduce the dampening bonus on cloaks to 10 or 15%, which would have the same result while weakning the cloak's advantages rather than negating most of the value of a lot of Scout fittings. You're trying to nerf ALL Scout suits because of ONE specific fitting you don't like. Stop, think about it seriously, then come back with a good idea instead of one that's not only bad, but already been tried. Only thing I couldn't hide from with a 45db was a Focused Scan. You only need one Basic, and one Complex dampener to dodge Non-Gallente Proto Scans with a 45db, thats two slots, 0 PG, and a low number of CPU. Scanners have been rebalanced since then, and so has the passive scanning on Scout suits, and you're assuming everyone is using the same Scout suit as you. Pro-tip: They aren't. Also, on buffing Assaults, adding equipment slots would be a bad idea. Logis should be the equipment carriers, with occasional Scouts filling the role (most will use the extra slot for a cloak, as intended). Assaults are meant to be adaptable and heavily customisable. Reduce the PG and CPU on Logis slightly, add some HP and remove a couple of module slots from them, then give Assaults extra PG/CPU and modules. Logis get to customise more in the area of equipment while still having some flexibility with modules, and Assaults become what they were always supposed to be according to the lore.
Ridire Greine 298	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:37:00 - [8] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Also, on buffing Assaults, adding equipment slots would be a bad idea. Logis should be the equipment carriers, with occasional Scouts filling the role (most will use the extra slot for a cloak, as intended). Assaults are meant to be adaptable and heavily customisable. Reduce the PG and CPU on Logis slightly, add some HP and remove a couple of module slots from them, then give Assaults extra PG/CPU and modules. Logis get to customise more in the area of equipment while still having some flexibility with modules, and Assaults become what they were always supposed to be according to the lore. Logistic suits don't need any kind of nerf or buff, I feel they're fine as is. An increase to Module slots is a great way to go, but it won't fix the entire class. Changing the bonus of both the Gal and Caldari Assault to something more fitting and less useless is another buff, but it still won't be enough to make Assaults worth picking over Scouts for an Assault role. A slight increase to the base speed of the Minmatar assault, to actually make that small bonus worth having would be a great help. But an increase in equipment slots I feel would bring the Assault in line with the Scouts, Logistics will still be able to use equipment more effectively, and due to their bonuses would be able to fit higher tier equipment. Whereas Assaults will be able to fit equipment to be able to actually effectively 'Assault' a position. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 223	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:41:00 - [9] - Quote I already made a thread about this yesterday and worked all the numbers, I said that it should go back 40 profile 45 precision which was pre 1.8. Remove the dampening from the cloak and give all scouts 5% per level dampening so the cloak doesn't have to be something we HAVE to equip as a scout for dampening. Change the cloak up time to 15/30/45 maybe, cause 90 is just crazy too long. (I am a scout btw, been one for 7 months) but reduce recharge time to 8/12/15 And give Assaults the base armor and shield of midway between scouts and heavies, its too small of a change between mediums and scouts that anyone would want to pick an assault over a scout now. Also, by restoring the profile you can fix EWAR and make it not that impossible for a medium to consider throwing on some precision modules.
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 223	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:45:00 - [10] - Quote I am also fine with scouts going back to one equipment slot, sorry, but if the dampening bonus was given to the class and not the cloak then it would just be a visual thing and wouldn't change our EWAR, So pick, are you going to run uplinks or cloaky cloak. I think it would reduce a LOT more people going scouts. I personally don't even use the equipment cause even at level 4 engineering and electronics I can't usually fit things, I can on my proto but I don't cause the cloak itself is more expensive than most pieces of gear and I am trying to keep my costs down.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5214	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:51:00 - [11] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: Logistic suits don't need any kind of nerf or buff, I feel they're fine as is. I'm not proposing a nerf or buff. Just a shift towards their intended role, so they aren't doing everything they're meant to do AND everything and Assault is meant to do only better. Quote: An increase to Module slots is a great way to go, but it won't fix the entire class. Changing the bonus of both the Gal and Caldari Assault to something more fitting and less useless is another buff, but it still won't be enough to make Assaults worth picking over Scouts for an Assault role. I run a CalAssault on one of my characters, and I would really rather NOT see a change to the bonus, because it's very useful for me across several fittings. I know a few people who use the GalAssault bonus to effectively give their Shotguns slug rounds, which is REALLY nasty when you're on the receiving end. Quote: But an increase in equipment slots I feel would bring the Assault in line with the Scouts, Logistics will still be able to use equipment more effectively, and due to their bonuses would be able to fit higher tier equipment. Whereas Assaults will be able to fit equipment to be able to actually effectively 'Assault' a position. An increase in module slots would bring Assaults better in line with other suits as well, by raising their potential eHP significantly enough to tip the balance away from brick-tanked Scouts without letting them infringe on the level Heavies can reach. Equipment doesn't help you "assault" a position, it helps you "support" people who are assaulting it. Your proposal would give Assaults the option of being weaker Logis, or weaker Logi slayers instead of specialising the Logi and Assault suits into their own unique roles. Having the ability to adapt your suit's capabilities to a situation with modules is more valuable in direct combat than having supporting equipment like a Logi suit is meant to be running.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1499	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:54:00 - [12] - Quote How about no. The only suit that needs to change is the assault Maybe logi as well.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1359	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:55:00 - [13] - Quote buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5214	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:58:00 - [14] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches please learn what the actual problem with something is before calling it a "crutch".
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2981	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:02:00 - [15] - Quote What would this do? It would push scouts away from using the ewar gear they're intended for and move them more towards the brick tanking that is complained about almost as much as the cloak (if not more). I'd send you back to the drawing board but you'll just come up with another poorly thought out idea that achieves nothing but aggravate large sections of the playerbase, so instead I'll just send you home and tell you not to come up with any more bright ideas. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
buzzzzzzz killllllllll TRA1LBLAZERS 486	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:04:00 - [16] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches im a ***** sentinel dumbass... i cant use a ***** cloak, and i have only lvl 1 commando, which cant fit a cloak Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
Ridire Greine 299	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:04:00 - [17] - Quote Django Quik wrote: What would this do? It would push scouts away from using the ewar gear they're intended for and move them more towards the brick tanking that is complained about almost as much as the cloak (if not more). I'd send you back to the drawing board but you'll just come up with another poorly thought out idea that achieves nothing but aggravate large sections of the playerbase, so instead I'll just send you home and tell you not to come up with any more bright ideas. The Cloak is something that should be left for a Covert Ops class later on, not something that should be given to a Scout class. Scouts should have bonuses to movement, or Scanning, not visually hiding themselves. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1359	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:05:00 - [18] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jack McReady wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches please learn what the actual problem with something is before calling it a "crutch". http://imgur.com/qw63j3c
Ridire Greine 299	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:05:00 - [19] - Quote buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: im a ***** sentinel dumbass... i cant use a ***** cloak, and i have only lvl 1 commando, which cant fit a cloak Then please stop commenting on my threads if you're a Heavy that has no experience with Scouts or Cloaks. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2981	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:07:00 - [20] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: Django Quik wrote: What would this do? It would push scouts away from using the ewar gear they're intended for and move them more towards the brick tanking that is complained about almost as much as the cloak (if not more). I'd send you back to the drawing board but you'll just come up with another poorly thought out idea that achieves nothing but aggravate large sections of the playerbase, so instead I'll just send you home and tell you not to come up with any more bright ideas. The Cloak is something that should be left for a Covert Ops class later on, not something that should be given to a Scout class. Scouts should have bonuses to movement, or Scanning, not visually hiding themselves. Reads the description of the scout suit... ... ... nope, think you got the intention of the scout suit a little wrong there. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts

Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2981	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:12:00 - [21] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jack McReady wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches please learn what the actual problem with something is before calling it a "crutch". http://imgur.com/qw63j3c Oh noes, a cloaked scout is invisible at 60m in bright light with nothing behind him. Show me a picture of an invisible cloaked scout at 20m fully sprinting and I might give you the time of day. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
buzzzzzzz killllllllll TRA1LBLAZERS 495	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:12:00 - [22] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: im a ***** sentinel dumbass... i cant use a ***** cloak, and i have only lvl 1 commando, which cant fit a cloak Then please stop commenting on my threads if you're a Heavy that has no experience with Scouts or Cloaks. nice job editing out the part where he tells me to stop defending my crutch. i said that in response to what he said, and i have played with cloaks before on my friends proto scout, i capped during the accelerated sp event for him cuz he was out of town. i never said i had no experience, i just said i dont use them. plus, half the players im playing against are using a cloak, so thats a bit more experience. Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
buzzzzzzz killllllllll TRA1LBLAZERS 495	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:13:00 - [23] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: im a ***** sentinel dumbass... i cant use a ***** cloak, and i have only lvl 1 commando, which cant fit a cloak Then please stop commenting on my threads if you're a Heavy that has no experience with Scouts or Cloaks. also, my only other comment was a polite request for you to stop posting these threads as they are wildly unpopular and annnoying on the forums Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 81	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:14:00 - [24] - Quote Stacking penalties on armor plates. Solves: Assault role being stolen by armored scouts Armor being better then shield tanking Lack of fitting diversity in general Heavies being a little op
Ridire Greine 299	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:15:00 - [25] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Reads the description of the scout suit... ... ... nope, think you got the intention of the scout suit a little wrong there. You mean, you actually take those descriptions literally? Woah, I had my doubts, and I had hope, but it turns out this community is actually full of twats. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1359	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:18:00 - [26] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Oh noes, a cloaked scout is invisible at 60m in bright light with nothing behind him. Show me a picture of an invisible cloaked scout at 20m fully sprinting and I might give you the time of day. you can see it on the following youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3Lfy7J1c4I while you can see them most of the time while fully sprinting, there are moments were you cannot and this is on a darker map. on a brigher map everyone already knows how it looks like beside that, if he says something like this: Garrett Blacknova wrote: the closest I've had an actually invisible Scout - EVEN WHEN THEY'RE STANDING STILL - is closer to 50m than 40m. then I have all rights to nail the lie.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2981	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:19:00 - [27] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: Django Quik wrote: Reads the description of the scout suit... ... ... nope, think you got the intention of the scout suit a little wrong there. You mean, you actually take those descriptions literally? Woah, I had my doubts, and I had hope, but it turns out this community is actually full of twats. Oh, do you have a better source what the suits are intended for? Please share with everyone. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Ridire Greine 299	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:20:00 - [28] - Quote buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: also, my only other comment was a polite request for you to stop posting these threads as they are wildly unpopular and annnoying on the forums Opinions against a FOTM are always going to be unpopular. And I was just doing the same thing pal, comments like yours are unhelpful, stupid, and incredibly annoying to anyone who wants to discuss these things. Tell the community that HAVs are OP and nobody bats an eye, tell the community that Scouts are OP and everyone loses their minds. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Ridire Greine 299	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:22:00 - [29] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Oh, do you have a better source what the suits are intended for? Please share with everyone. No, but I can at least try help bring ideas together with balancing the suits instead of being a smartass. But anyone who takes those descriptions literally is a joke, they're there for lore purposes, and not balancing. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1603	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:27:00 - [30] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jack McReady wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches please learn what the actual problem with something is before calling it a "crutch". Thank you ^



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