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Balancing Scout + A small Possible Buff to Assault

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Ridire Greine 298	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:05:00 - [1] - Quote Scout suit. Increase the Scout Profile up from 35db, to 45db, this is 5db below that of an Assault suit. What exactly would this do? Players would be more inclined to fit Dampening Modules in their lows instead of an armour tank. Cloaks Standard Cloak - 10% Reduction to Profile ADV Cloak - 15% Reduction to Profile Proto Cloak - 20% Reduction to Profile There is currently no point to fit anything past the Standard Cloak unless your intention is to use it as a Combat item or to camp a corner. A Standard item should not give a 25% Reduction to Profile and a Cloaking ability, ever. Bonus Just an idea, but change the bonus from: 15% Reduction to the CPU / PG Consumption of Cloaks per level. Standard Cloak - 160 / 35 to 40 / 9 Advanced Cloak - 231 / 49 to 58 / 13 Prototype Cloak - 330 / 70 to 83 / 18 To: 5% Reduction to the CPU / PG Consumption of Biotic Modules per level. Complex Kin Cats - 27 / 15 to 21 / 12 Complex Cardiacs - 12 / 8 to 9 / 7 Complex Myos - 51 / 3 to 39 / 2 or 3 don't know how that works out What would this do? It would further intice people not to fill their slots with tanking modules, but instead with Biotics. OR 10% Reduction to the CPU / PG Consumption of Cloaks per level Standard Cloak - 160 / 35 to 80 / 18 Advanced Cloak - 231 / 49 to 116 / 25 Prototype Cloak - 330 / 70 to 165 / 35 What would this do? It would make Cloaks more of a pain to fit, making them harder to fit with Combat modules, or Prototype weapons, restricting the user's combat ability. And as for a small possible buff to Assaults, increase their Equip count from 1 -> 2 at Advanced and Prototype levels. Any good reason why this shouldn't be done? I'd just like to say: inb4 "QQ U CNT C CLACKS" "Should've gone to Specsavers" "Scrub, do u evn lift?" and all the other insults people may throw at me for poking the Cloaks which seem to be a very touchy subject. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
buzzzzzzz killllllllll TRA1LBLAZERS 474	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:12:00 - [2] - Quote please stop making these threads? Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
Ridire Greine 298	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:13:00 - [3] - Quote buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? Never. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5212	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:19:00 - [4] - Quote Better option. We used to have 45dB and it was awful because you literally couldn't hide from anything. The best solution is to leave the profile as-is, but reduce the dampening bonus on cloaks to 10 or 15%, which would have the same result while weakning the cloak's advantages rather than negating most of the value of a lot of Scout fittings. You're trying to nerf ALL Scout suits because of ONE specific fitting you don't like. Stop, think about it seriously, then come back with a good idea instead of one that's not only bad, but already been tried.
Ridire Greine 298	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:22:00 - [5] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Better option. We used to have 45dB and it was awful because you literally couldn't hide from anything. The best solution is to leave the profile as-is, but reduce the dampening bonus on cloaks to 10 or 15%, which would have the same result while weakning the cloak's advantages rather than negating most of the value of a lot of Scout fittings. You're trying to nerf ALL Scout suits because of ONE specific fitting you don't like. Stop, think about it seriously, then come back with a good idea instead of one that's not only bad, but already been tried. Only thing I couldn't hide from with a 45db was a Focused Scan. You only need one Basic, and one Complex dampener to dodge Non-Gallente Proto Scans with a 45db, thats two slots, 0 PG, and a low number of CPU. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 5968	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:28:00 - [6] - Quote 1:The lowered sig is there to counter the loss of a bonus, not only that but there are plenty of things that can pick up a scout as is, especially if they're foolish enough to have no PD in the low. 2:Biotic bonus isn't as helpful as you seem to think, especially with the stamina we have now, along with the 'slow down effect' of being shot. 2 (2): brick tanking is not a scout problem, I leave it at that. 3:take it from a Proto scout, fitting a suit isn't easy while using a cloak, even at proto level, the reduction is mostly for newer scouts trying to get their feet wet I think, reducing the bonus hits them the hardest, not a good thing. 3(2): besides that reducing the combat ability of any suit/class in a shooter is a bad idea period, it's not smart now, it wasn't smart in builds past, more counters for a class or gear is generally the better route to go. 4:The second equipment slot on the assault was removed for a reason, and a valid one at that, I don't see it coming back any time soon. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5213	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:30:00 - [7] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Better option. We used to have 45dB and it was awful because you literally couldn't hide from anything. The best solution is to leave the profile as-is, but reduce the dampening bonus on cloaks to 10 or 15%, which would have the same result while weakning the cloak's advantages rather than negating most of the value of a lot of Scout fittings. You're trying to nerf ALL Scout suits because of ONE specific fitting you don't like. Stop, think about it seriously, then come back with a good idea instead of one that's not only bad, but already been tried. Only thing I couldn't hide from with a 45db was a Focused Scan. You only need one Basic, and one Complex dampener to dodge Non-Gallente Proto Scans with a 45db, thats two slots, 0 PG, and a low number of CPU. Scanners have been rebalanced since then, and so has the passive scanning on Scout suits, and you're assuming everyone is using the same Scout suit as you. Pro-tip: They aren't. Also, on buffing Assaults, adding equipment slots would be a bad idea. Logis should be the equipment carriers, with occasional Scouts filling the role (most will use the extra slot for a cloak, as intended). Assaults are meant to be adaptable and heavily customisable. Reduce the PG and CPU on Logis slightly, add some HP and remove a couple of module slots from them, then give Assaults extra PG/CPU and modules. Logis get to customise more in the area of equipment while still having some flexibility with modules, and Assaults become what they were always supposed to be according to the lore.
Ridire Greine 298	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:37:00 - [8] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Also, on buffing Assaults, adding equipment slots would be a bad idea. Logis should be the equipment carriers, with occasional Scouts filling the role (most will use the extra slot for a cloak, as intended). Assaults are meant to be adaptable and heavily customisable. Reduce the PG and CPU on Logis slightly, add some HP and remove a couple of module slots from them, then give Assaults extra PG/CPU and modules. Logis get to customise more in the area of equipment while still having some flexibility with modules, and Assaults become what they were always supposed to be according to the lore. Logistic suits don't need any kind of nerf or buff, I feel they're fine as is. An increase to Module slots is a great way to go, but it won't fix the entire class. Changing the bonus of both the Gal and Caldari Assault to something more fitting and less useless is another buff, but it still won't be enough to make Assaults worth picking over Scouts for an Assault role. A slight increase to the base speed of the Minmatar assault, to actually make that small bonus worth having would be a great help. But an increase in equipment slots I feel would bring the Assault in line with the Scouts, Logistics will still be able to use equipment more effectively, and due to their bonuses would be able to fit higher tier equipment. Whereas Assaults will be able to fit equipment to be able to actually effectively 'Assault' a position. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 223	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:41:00 - [9] - Quote I already made a thread about this yesterday and worked all the numbers, I said that it should go back 40 profile 45 precision which was pre 1.8. Remove the dampening from the cloak and give all scouts 5% per level dampening so the cloak doesn't have to be something we HAVE to equip as a scout for dampening. Change the cloak up time to 15/30/45 maybe, cause 90 is just crazy too long. (I am a scout btw, been one for 7 months) but reduce recharge time to 8/12/15 And give Assaults the base armor and shield of midway between scouts and heavies, its too small of a change between mediums and scouts that anyone would want to pick an assault over a scout now. Also, by restoring the profile you can fix EWAR and make it not that impossible for a medium to consider throwing on some precision modules.
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 223	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:45:00 - [10] - Quote I am also fine with scouts going back to one equipment slot, sorry, but if the dampening bonus was given to the class and not the cloak then it would just be a visual thing and wouldn't change our EWAR, So pick, are you going to run uplinks or cloaky cloak. I think it would reduce a LOT more people going scouts. I personally don't even use the equipment cause even at level 4 engineering and electronics I can't usually fit things, I can on my proto but I don't cause the cloak itself is more expensive than most pieces of gear and I am trying to keep my costs down.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5214	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:51:00 - [11] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: Logistic suits don't need any kind of nerf or buff, I feel they're fine as is. I'm not proposing a nerf or buff. Just a shift towards their intended role, so they aren't doing everything they're meant to do AND everything and Assault is meant to do only better. Quote: An increase to Module slots is a great way to go, but it won't fix the entire class. Changing the bonus of both the Gal and Caldari Assault to something more fitting and less useless is another buff, but it still won't be enough to make Assaults worth picking over Scouts for an Assault role. I run a CalAssault on one of my characters, and I would really rather NOT see a change to the bonus, because it's very useful for me across several fittings. I know a few people who use the GalAssault bonus to effectively give their Shotguns slug rounds, which is REALLY nasty when you're on the receiving end. Quote: But an increase in equipment slots I feel would bring the Assault in line with the Scouts, Logistics will still be able to use equipment more effectively, and due to their bonuses would be able to fit higher tier equipment. Whereas Assaults will be able to fit equipment to be able to actually effectively 'Assault' a position. An increase in module slots would bring Assaults better in line with other suits as well, by raising their potential eHP significantly enough to tip the balance away from brick-tanked Scouts without letting them infringe on the level Heavies can reach. Equipment doesn't help you "assault" a position, it helps you "support" people who are assaulting it. Your proposal would give Assaults the option of being weaker Logis, or weaker Logi slayers instead of specialising the Logi and Assault suits into their own unique roles. Having the ability to adapt your suit's capabilities to a situation with modules is more valuable in direct combat than having supporting equipment like a Logi suit is meant to be running.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1499	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:54:00 - [12] - Quote How about no. The only suit that needs to change is the assault Maybe logi as well.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1359	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:55:00 - [13] - Quote buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5214	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:58:00 - [14] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches please learn what the actual problem with something is before calling it a "crutch".
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2981	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:02:00 - [15] - Quote What would this do? It would push scouts away from using the ewar gear they're intended for and move them more towards the brick tanking that is complained about almost as much as the cloak (if not more). I'd send you back to the drawing board but you'll just come up with another poorly thought out idea that achieves nothing but aggravate large sections of the playerbase, so instead I'll just send you home and tell you not to come up with any more bright ideas. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
buzzzzzzz killllllllll TRA1LBLAZERS 486	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:04:00 - [16] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches im a ***** sentinel dumbass... i cant use a ***** cloak, and i have only lvl 1 commando, which cant fit a cloak Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
Ridire Greine 299	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:04:00 - [17] - Quote Django Quik wrote: What would this do? It would push scouts away from using the ewar gear they're intended for and move them more towards the brick tanking that is complained about almost as much as the cloak (if not more). I'd send you back to the drawing board but you'll just come up with another poorly thought out idea that achieves nothing but aggravate large sections of the playerbase, so instead I'll just send you home and tell you not to come up with any more bright ideas. The Cloak is something that should be left for a Covert Ops class later on, not something that should be given to a Scout class. Scouts should have bonuses to movement, or Scanning, not visually hiding themselves. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1359	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:05:00 - [18] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jack McReady wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches please learn what the actual problem with something is before calling it a "crutch". http://imgur.com/qw63j3c
Ridire Greine 299	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:05:00 - [19] - Quote buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: im a ***** sentinel dumbass... i cant use a ***** cloak, and i have only lvl 1 commando, which cant fit a cloak Then please stop commenting on my threads if you're a Heavy that has no experience with Scouts or Cloaks. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2981	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:07:00 - [20] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: Django Quik wrote: What would this do? It would push scouts away from using the ewar gear they're intended for and move them more towards the brick tanking that is complained about almost as much as the cloak (if not more). I'd send you back to the drawing board but you'll just come up with another poorly thought out idea that achieves nothing but aggravate large sections of the playerbase, so instead I'll just send you home and tell you not to come up with any more bright ideas. The Cloak is something that should be left for a Covert Ops class later on, not something that should be given to a Scout class. Scouts should have bonuses to movement, or Scanning, not visually hiding themselves. Reads the description of the scout suit... ... ... nope, think you got the intention of the scout suit a little wrong there. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts

Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2981	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:12:00 - [21] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jack McReady wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches please learn what the actual problem with something is before calling it a "crutch". http://imgur.com/qw63j3c Oh noes, a cloaked scout is invisible at 60m in bright light with nothing behind him. Show me a picture of an invisible cloaked scout at 20m fully sprinting and I might give you the time of day. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
buzzzzzzz killllllllll TRA1LBLAZERS 495	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:12:00 - [22] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: im a ***** sentinel dumbass... i cant use a ***** cloak, and i have only lvl 1 commando, which cant fit a cloak Then please stop commenting on my threads if you're a Heavy that has no experience with Scouts or Cloaks. nice job editing out the part where he tells me to stop defending my crutch. i said that in response to what he said, and i have played with cloaks before on my friends proto scout, i capped during the accelerated sp event for him cuz he was out of town. i never said i had no experience, i just said i dont use them. plus, half the players im playing against are using a cloak, so thats a bit more experience. Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
buzzzzzzz killllllllll TRA1LBLAZERS 495	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:13:00 - [23] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: im a ***** sentinel dumbass... i cant use a ***** cloak, and i have only lvl 1 commando, which cant fit a cloak Then please stop commenting on my threads if you're a Heavy that has no experience with Scouts or Cloaks. also, my only other comment was a polite request for you to stop posting these threads as they are wildly unpopular and annnoying on the forums Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 81	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:14:00 - [24] - Quote Stacking penalties on armor plates. Solves: Assault role being stolen by armored scouts Armor being better then shield tanking Lack of fitting diversity in general Heavies being a little op
Ridire Greine 299	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:15:00 - [25] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Reads the description of the scout suit... ... ... nope, think you got the intention of the scout suit a little wrong there. You mean, you actually take those descriptions literally? Woah, I had my doubts, and I had hope, but it turns out this community is actually full of twats. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1359	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:18:00 - [26] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Oh noes, a cloaked scout is invisible at 60m in bright light with nothing behind him. Show me a picture of an invisible cloaked scout at 20m fully sprinting and I might give you the time of day. you can see it on the following youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3Lfy7J1c4I while you can see them most of the time while fully sprinting, there are moments were you cannot and this is on a darker map. on a brigher map everyone already knows how it looks like beside that, if he says something like this: Garrett Blacknova wrote: the closest I've had an actually invisible Scout - EVEN WHEN THEY'RE STANDING STILL - is closer to 50m than 40m. then I have all rights to nail the lie.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2981	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:19:00 - [27] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: Django Quik wrote: Reads the description of the scout suit... ... ... nope, think you got the intention of the scout suit a little wrong there. You mean, you actually take those descriptions literally? Woah, I had my doubts, and I had hope, but it turns out this community is actually full of twats. Oh, do you have a better source what the suits are intended for? Please share with everyone. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Ridire Greine 299	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:20:00 - [28] - Quote buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: also, my only other comment was a polite request for you to stop posting these threads as they are wildly unpopular and annnoying on the forums Opinions against a FOTM are always going to be unpopular. And I was just doing the same thing pal, comments like yours are unhelpful, stupid, and incredibly annoying to anyone who wants to discuss these things. Tell the community that HAVs are OP and nobody bats an eye, tell the community that Scouts are OP and everyone loses their minds. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
Ridire Greine 299	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:22:00 - [29] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Oh, do you have a better source what the suits are intended for? Please share with everyone. No, but I can at least try help bring ideas together with balancing the suits instead of being a smartass. But anyone who takes those descriptions literally is a joke, they're there for lore purposes, and not balancing. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1603	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:27:00 - [30] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jack McReady wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches please learn what the actual problem with something is before calling it a "crutch". Thank you ^

NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1603	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:29:00 - [31] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: im a ***** sentinel dumbass... i cant use a ***** cloak, and i have only lvl 1 commando, which cant fit a cloak Then please stop commenting on my threads if you're a Heavy that has no experience with Scouts or Cloaks. And you seem to be the expert in all ?!
Ridire Greine 299	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:33:00 - [32] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: And you seem to be the expert in all ?! No, I never said that, but thanks. I do have experience with Scouts and Cloaks though, both on the recieving end, and the one using them. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1603	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:33:00 - [33] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Django Quik wrote: Oh noes, a cloaked scout is invisible at 60m in bright light with nothing behind him. Show me a picture of an invisible cloaked scout at 20m fully sprinting and I might give you the time of day. you can see it on the following youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3Lfy7J1c4I while you can see them most of the time while fully sprinting, there are moments were you cannot and this is on a darker map. on a brigher map everyone already knows how it looks like beside that, if he says something like this: Garrett Blacknova wrote: the closest I've had an actually invisible Scout - EVEN WHEN THEY'RE STANDING STILL - is closer to 50m than 40m. then I have all rights to nail the lie. a standing still cloaked scout right in your face: http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65896/1/3p_still_cloak.png standing still cloaked scout, 14m away: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3Lfy7J1c4I all fully invisible, yet Garret Blacktroll claims he can see that I see 99.9% of the Cloaks... Mostly with Chevrons on top of their hat... I chose not to tank my suits and use what i have... Like i said a billion times before ... Use the high and low slots for something other than Shield and Armor modules... Experimenting is OP, So is Squad work, Squad formation, Teamwork and Mic... Nerf it all
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1359	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:33:00 - [34] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jack McReady wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches please learn what the actual problem with something is before calling it a "crutch". Thank you ^ translate: I am a lemming with no clue. there is no hope for you if you say thank you to someone claiming he can see standing still cloaked scouts at 40-50m ranges and then follows with that he "knows" the actual problem
Ridire Greine 299	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:35:00 - [35] - Quote buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: nice job editing out the part where he tells me to stop defending my crutch. i said that in response to what he said, and i have played with cloaks before on my friends proto scout, i capped during the accelerated sp event for him cuz he was out of town. i never said i had no experience, i just said i dont use them. plus, half the players im playing against are using a cloak, so thats a bit more experience. I done that to stop the thread being full of pointless quotes, if you read through all the posts in which I have quoted someone, you can clearly see that I have done it in almost every single one. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'
buzzzzzzz killllllllll TRA1LBLAZERS 499	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:35:00 - [36] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: also, my only other comment was a polite request for you to stop posting these threads as they are wildly unpopular and annnoying on the forums Opinions against a FOTM are always going to be unpopular. And I was just doing the same thing pal, comments like yours are unhelpful, stupid, and incredibly annoying to anyone who wants to discuss these things. Tell the community that HAVs are OP and nobody bats an eye, tell the community that Scouts are OP and everyone loses their minds. it was not an "opinion against a FOTM", it was a polite request to stop spamming the forums with your threads. your threads are "unhelpful, stupid, and incredibly annoying" to everyone else on the forums (copy and paste) Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
buzzzzzzz killllllllll TRA1LBLAZERS 499	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:37:00 - [37] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: nice job editing out the part where he tells me to stop defending my crutch. i said that in response to what he said, and i have played with cloaks before on my friends proto scout, i capped during the accelerated sp event for him cuz he was out of town. i never said i had no experience, i just said i dont use them. plus, half the players im playing against are using a cloak, so thats a bit more experience. I done that to stop the thread being full of pointless quotes, if you read through all the posts in which I have quoted someone, you can clearly see that I have done it in almost every single one. your using my words out of context, and i wasnt even talking to you. i was talking to some idiot who thought i used cloaks as a crutch or some bs, which is impossible since im a heavy Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2984	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:40:00 - [38] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: Django Quik wrote: Oh, do you have a better source what the suits are intended for? Please share with everyone. No, but I can at least try help bring ideas together with balancing the suits instead of being a smartass. But anyone who takes those descriptions literally is a joke, they're there for lore purposes, and not balancing. You claim to be trying to put scouts in their intended place yet ignore the only source that exists for what they are intended for. If scouts aren't the intended suit for cloaks, then why do cloaks even exist at this point in time? Your ideas are nonsense. You're trying to basically get rid of cloaks altogether. You're bringing scouts closer to assaults by removing some of their innate dampening - you really think this will make us use more ewar? No; it will make us use more tank because we'll be easier spotted. If you really wanted to dissuade people from using scouts as light assaults, you'd buff assaults to be significantly better at assaulting. Afterall, it's the medium frames that are still waiting for their 1.8 balance pass. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1603	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:41:00 - [39] - Quote Ridire Greine wrote: NAV HIV wrote: And you seem to be the expert in all ?! No, I never said that, but thanks. I do have experience with Scouts and Cloaks though, both on the recieving end, and the one using them. I have Proto Scout, Assault, Commando, Heavy Have Tanks Avs and all the weapons excepts for Lasers... I use cloak, scouts, assault, commando, heavy on a regular basis... I have issues with scouts if i'm running a Commando or Heavy... and if i'm running those suits alone... Other than that... Scouts really do have a hard time if they are not well equipped... Use your slot layouts properly and stop crying about cloaks every morning About assault suits, Amar and Gallente are better choices... Cal and min received the short end of the stick... Some resistance bonus on top of the regular bonus we have right now, could be useful... Stacking penalties on Armor plates would solve a lot of problems...
Ridire Greine 299	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:41:00 - [40] - Quote Why do I even bother with GD anymore. "Jolly cooperation" Knight Solaire Leading Scientist in the examination of 'Forwards'

Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2984	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:42:00 - [41] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Django Quik wrote: Oh noes, a cloaked scout is invisible at 60m in bright light with nothing behind him. Show me a picture of an invisible cloaked scout at 20m fully sprinting and I might give you the time of day. you can see it on the following youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3Lfy7J1c4I while you can see them most of the time while fully sprinting, there are moments were you cannot and this is on a darker map. on a brigher map everyone already knows how it looks like You mean when his buddies are running around at the start? When you can clearly see them every single time they move and they're only invisible when they're stood still (admittedly the standing jumping should cause shimmer too but ya know, CCP bugs). And I don't care what Garrett has said he can see or not - means nothing to me. My point is that you can clearly see any moving scout when he is even remotely close to you. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1359	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:46:00 - [42] - Quote Django Quik wrote: stuff that wasnt my point. I am just tired to see some people throwing around false information around the forum. I also never said that I want to change cloaks although I personally would remove the dampening bonus cause damps are already more powerful than precision enhancers and with the cloak it scales through the roof. and regarding the video, I mean when they later move around and move away, there are moments where you cannot see them because the lighting of the sun "occludes" them several times. in a bright areas this happens all the time.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1500	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:50:00 - [43] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jack McReady wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches please learn what the actual problem with something is before calling it a "crutch". http://imgur.com/qw63j3c I can't read that text on my tiny phone
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1603	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:52:00 - [44] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: I see 99.9% of the Cloaks... Mostly with Chevrons on top of their hat... I chose not to tank my suits and use what i have... Like i said a billion times before ... Use the high and low slots for something other than Shield and Armor modules... Experimenting is OP, So is Squad work, Squad formation, Teamwork and Mic... Nerf it all translate: I defend my crutches here we have another guy claiming something despite videos, screenshots and math are showing you something else. beside that, anyone in game can see it right there. who do you think you are going to fool? do you feel better lying to yourself?[/quote] Listen L33T player... I have over 50 mil SP... So needless to say i have all the core skills to equip whatever i feel like... If you wanna run a scout and try to survive against our play style... I'd suggest bringing a gal scout with a minimum of 3 PD... or a scout ck0 with 4 PE and 2 PD... till then stfu... I dont think u have the balls to run around in the field with less than 240 total EHP and still create havok... Also the suit cost 150-185k each... Depending on the weapons... I run a scout ck0 with 4 PE and 1-2 Range amplifiers... Wanna quote maths or wanna try it out against me on the field ?! The guy on the post... Was he running a proper anti-scout ?! lol At this point i'd suggest you get a gal scout and fit it with 3 complex armor plates and 1 complex armor rep... You'd live longer and cry lesser....
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2985	Posted - 2014.04.25 14:56:00 - [45] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Django Quik wrote: stuff that wasnt my point. I am just tired to see some people throwing around false information around the forum. I also never said that I want to change cloaks although I personally would remove the dampening bonus cause damps are already more powerful than precision enhancers and with the cloak it scales through the roof. and regarding the video, I mean when they later move around and move away, there are moments where you cannot see them because the lighting of the sun "occludes" them several times. in a bright areas this happens all the time. I too am tired of false information being spread around. And Judge's video has just lead to an onslaught of people claiming cloaked scouts are impossible to ever see and using his footage as evidence, even though it's specifically only at long ranges. Cloaked scouts within 30m are not even vaguely difficult to see - the video you linked backs that up, though I agree that lighting conditions can make it more difficult and that may need some addressing, on the whole cloaks are not hard to see at close range. The biggest complaints are about shotgun scouts, who need to get within 5m to be even remotely deadly, which makes the whole argument even more of a nonsense. Yes, the cloak needs a little tweaking (I'm also not a fan of the dampening bonus but can see the idea behind what is effectively an "active dampener" and the cloak-insta-shoot bug needs urgent fixing) but making it useless to everyone like this ignoramus of an OP wants would serve no one. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5221	Posted - 2014.04.25 15:01:00 - [46] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Jack McReady wrote: buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: please stop making these threads? please learn to play without crutches please learn what the actual problem with something is before calling it a "crutch". Thank you ^ translate: I am a lemming with no clue. there is no hope for you if you say thank you to someone claiming he can see standing still cloaked scouts at 40-50m ranges and then follows with that he "knows" the actual problem I've been running around in an Assault suit without any scanning skills on one of my alts lately. At more than 40m, I've seen a human shape standing in a corner near an objective, turned to verify and had my crosshairs light up to confirm a cloaked Scout. I've also had a few times where as I'm turning, there was a shimmer of blue and they ran off, obviously smart enough to suspect I saw them when I started to turn towards them. I haven't yet had a moment where I've turned towards what I thought I saw and NOT had something confirm a cloaker, so I'm not imagining it. The problem with cloak is that there are glitches (which aren't a balance problem) which sometimes make the shimmer either not display or vanish from a cloaked player. I don't yet know if this is something players can intentionally manipulate or not, but I have reason to suspect it is. There are also glitches which allow cloaked players to draw their weapons while remaining cloaked (not sure if CCP have fixed this yet). This means that some Shotgunners, for example, are taking their first shot BEFORE the decloak animation begins, and simultaneously with the decloak sound being played. Often the sound of your attack will drown out the decloak sound or prevent it from playing in this instance, which makes this glitch the key problem with cloaks. When CCP can fix the bugs, which interfere with the possible judgement of balance, but which aren't themselves relevant to how something is balanced, THEN we can talk seriously about whether or not the cloak is OP.
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 1181	Posted - 2014.04.25 15:13:00 - [47] - Quote What would this do? Kill my Min scout as I wouldn't have a chance in hell of avoiding the (all too prevalent) Cal scouts hunting my ass. Not to mention I need all the PG reduction I can get on the cloak. Also I hardly run biotic mods (partly cus the fitting but mostly cus its depressing that a Gal and poss even an Amarr can speed tank better) - I can't stand skills that force a player to use certain mods. At least cloaks are fairly optional but make the scout have a niche, which is precisely what we needed all this time. "...and all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death."
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1604	Posted - 2014.04.25 15:18:00 - [48] - Quote translate: I am a lemming with no clue. there is no hope for you if you say thank you to someone claiming he can see standing still cloaked scouts at 40-50m ranges and then follows with that he "knows" the actual problem [/quote] I've been running around in an Assault suit without any scanning skills on one of my alts lately. At more than 40m, I've seen a human shape standing in a corner near an objective, turned to verify and had my crosshairs light up to confirm a cloaked Scout. I've also had a few times where as I'm turning, there was a shimmer of blue and they ran off, obviously smart enough to suspect I saw them when I started to turn towards them. I haven't yet had a moment where I've turned towards what I thought I saw and NOT had something confirm a cloaker, so I'm not imagining it. The problem with cloak is that there are glitches (which aren't a balance problem) which sometimes make the shimmer either not display or vanish from a cloaked player. I don't yet know if this is something players can intentionally manipulate or not, but I have reason to suspect it is. There are also glitches which allow cloaked players to draw their weapons while remaining cloaked (not sure if CCP have fixed this yet). This means that some Shotgunners, for example, are taking their first shot BEFORE the decloak animation begins, and simultaneously with the decloak sound being played. Often the sound of your attack will drown out the decloak sound or prevent it from playing in this instance, which makes this glitch the key problem with cloaks. When CCP can fix the bugs, which interfere with the possible judgement of balance, but which aren't themselves relevant to how something is balanced, THEN we can talk seriously about whether or not the cloak is OP.[/quote] Eyes are OP apparently... A gal logi with 2 PE and 1 RA can pick up 85% of the scouts, which are tanked people with their cloak on lol... CCP did a good job with cloaks... All they need to do is to fix the bugs...
Yan Darn Science For Death 661	Posted - 2014.04.25 16:44:00 - [49] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: I've been running around in an Assault suit without any scanning skills on one of my alts lately. At more than 40m, I've seen a human shape standing in a corner near an objective, turned to verify and had my crosshairs light up to confirm a cloaked Scout. I've also had a few times where as I'm turning, there was a shimmer of blue and they ran off, obviously smart enough to suspect I saw them when I started to turn towards them. I haven't yet had a moment where I've turned towards what I thought I saw and NOT had something confirm a cloaker, so I'm not imagining it. The problem with cloak is that there are glitches (which aren't a balance problem) which sometimes make the shimmer either not display or vanish from a cloaked player. I don't yet know if this is something players can intentionally manipulate or not, but I have reason to suspect it is. There are also glitches which allow cloaked players to draw their weapons while remaining cloaked (not sure if CCP have fixed this yet). This means that some Shotgunners, for example, are taking their first shot BEFORE the decloak animation begins, and simultaneously with the decloak sound being played. Often the sound of your attack will drown out the decloak sound or prevent it from playing in this instance, which makes this glitch the key problem with cloaks. When CCP can fix the bugs, which interfere with the possible judgement of balance, but which aren't themselves relevant to how something is balanced, THEN we can talk seriously about whether or not the cloak is OP. ^^ How anybody can possibly evaluate the 'OPness' of scouts/cloaks when: 1: Med frames (especially assaults) are still to receive balancing - I don't think it's exactly a coincednece I see heavies tend to defend scouts and vice versa. 2: The graphical glitches etc. with cloaks haven't been addressed yet - it's almost like a lot of people are pretending the glitches with cloaks are intentional features so they can use their backwards logic to justify nerfs to scouts as a whole. And yes - I am biased: rather much against cloaks (or at least how they've been implemented as the scout role bonus) - but I am capable of some rational thinking... The Ghost of Bravo


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