DUST Search - JudgeRhadamanthus "Unseen" cloaking Video

Bormir1r wrote:

Minor Treat wrote:

Bormir1r wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

Excellent video, and it showcases beautifully what I mean.

In the shadow, scouts are easy to see.
In the light, good ******* luck.

It's why when I need to combat scouts, I go to a badly lit place so I could see them more easily.
Some maps are just badly lit in general, which makes it perfect for my 100m laser snipes Twisted

But shouldn't that be ok, because the purpose of the cloak is to try to blend with the surroundings. The fact that there's lighting that helps the scout just means that there are places where it's easier to blend with the environment. We should also acknowledge that it should obviously be harder to see a cloaked scout who's farther away, it's much easier to see them close up, which is good because if you're looking you should be able to see them come in CQC with you.

I thought blending in with the environment was suppose to be done by standing still not sprinting though..

Up to a certain extent yes, but when you're that far away, it should be harder to see them, if not mostly invisible.

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Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1970	Posted - 2014.04.18 17:08:00 - [61] - Quote Yes I did. But deleted them I made "Sea Sea Pee" instead. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4489	Posted - 2014.04.18 17:26:00 - [62] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Yes I did. But deleted them I made "Sea Sea Pee" instead. what about see sea pee? or see sea pea Lv 4 forum warrior Bringer of Bacon Knight of AMV's
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2914	Posted - 2014.04.18 17:35:00 - [63] - Quote Cloaked scouts should be basically invisible at +60m like in this video - otherwise the cloak serves really no purpose at all. Judge please do another video showing the same evidence at 20m and then we can discuss this more sensibly. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1970	Posted - 2014.04.18 17:37:00 - [64] - Quote Django Quik wrote: basically invisible He was completely, not basically, so I cannot see your point. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
J0LLY R0G3R Dirt Nap Squad. 739	Posted - 2014.04.18 17:45:00 - [65] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Django Quik wrote: basically invisible He was completely, not basically, so I cannot see your point. Would of been better if you would have said, your point like the scout is unseen. XD Gentlemanly Scout XD Indeed, chase me friend XD
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3989	Posted - 2014.04.18 17:45:00 - [66] - Quote how about a video that actually has good commentary without an air of a know it all? But your God has spoken, so you should listen. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Virtual Riot Rebels New Republic INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 353	Posted - 2014.04.18 17:52:00 - [67] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: how about a video that actually has good commentary without an air of a know it all? But your God has spoken, so you should listen. His videos are always very clear and concise. He states and issue. Presents evidence that is well explained, and forms a conclusion. He didn't say "I don't think scouts should be invisible as you see here" he said "as you can see he is completely invisible". Form your own conclusion. Try as you may you can't flame a video like this one all it does is present information. Fixing FGs > all
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 2767	Posted - 2014.04.18 18:23:00 - [68] - Quote Incredible... Great video +1 The Pathway to Hell, is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 97.51% Complete
Tectonic Fusion 1484	Posted - 2014.04.18 18:35:00 - [69] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Good scouts never needed cloak before, so making sure that running while cloaked is noticeable is definitely important. Cloak is for sneaking, not sprinting. True. I only use it for the dampening bonus. But it is useful for certain moments... Example (this actually happened): I killed a few guys, but was left with 0 shields and 0 armor. I saw on my passive that the entire other team was literally around the corner (I was crouched, so if I uncrouched, they could see my head), so I activated my cloak, scooted over next to a miniature hill, and waited. My shields fully recharged after they mostly left, so I picked off the survivors. Solo Player Squad status: Locked
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 1883	Posted - 2014.04.18 19:02:00 - [70] - Quote Probably i'm in late and this has already been suggested but cloak should work with %. Right now there are 3 levels, full cloak when standing still, medium cloak when walking and less cloak when sprinting. I remember the sorcery chameleon in morrowind/oblivion, that was working with %, where 1% was almost visible and 100% was completely invisible. If you base the cloak on your speed, not in 3 levels, with a range from 100% when standing still to 75/ 80% when sprinting, you would have a different cloak level at different speed. The unnamed new build it's so secret that nobody know what will be in it, even after patch notes.. \o/ summon me

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 351	Posted - 2014.04.18 20:02:00 - [71] - Quote shaman oga wrote: If you base the cloak on your speed, not in 3 levels, with a range from 100% when standing still to 75/ 80% when sprinting, you would have a different cloak level at different speed. If implemented, do you think the typical Scout would favor running KinCats or Plates? How might that escalate? Your suggestion is not bad, but your suggestion would disproportionately impact Biotic Scouts to the benefit of Brick Scouts, which would be upset Scout v Scout balance (this would be bad). Bang?
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 500	Posted - 2014.04.18 20:12:00 - [72] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Z is used as a reference to sci-fi. Often spelled with an O too. Its a nerd in-joke. "Lazor" and "laz0r" are in-jokes for the sci-fi community. "Lazer" is a (typically American) misunderstanding of how acronyms work, or a mistaken attempt at the in-joke which makes you look like an idiot instead of someone who actually understands the reference they're trying to make. I think we found the heavy getting melted in the video. Dude, it's ok, you can tell your shrink about it next visit. Because, that's why.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5178	Posted - 2014.04.20 07:52:00 - [73] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Django Quik wrote: basically invisible He was completely, not basically, so I cannot see your point. The only point where you showed a Scout who could be argued as completely invisible (still not ACTUALLY completely invisible) was when he was in the middle of a dust cloud at the peak of its animation, at long enough range that most UNCLOAKED suits would be just as invisible as the cloaked Scout was, AND part of the Scouts body was covered by the frame of your sight. Even then, the blue shimmer was still faintly visible if you knew what you were looking for (which you would if you'd been watching for it for a few seconds). The other point where you CLAIMED a Scout was completely invisible in your video was the end of the video where you showed frame 4, and pointed to the "invisible" Scout on the left side of your sights when the Scout was actually on the right - AND VISIBLE. Yes, at long range cloaked Scouts can be very difficult to see, but they AREN'T completely invisible AND THE VIDEO PROVES THAT.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 1203	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:04:00 - [74] - Quote Here is another video of the power of the cloak. That aside, I do like the notion of the video and I don't understand people taking umbrage with it. It is simply "in certain cases, cloaks can be nearly impossible to see; don't just say that people 'need to get good and use their eyes'." Toupee Fallacy: "All toupees look fake. I have never seen one that looked like real hair." "People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3508	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:24:00 - [75] - Quote I like the idea of scouts being completely invisible in well lit environments, but easy to see in shadows. It's like a reverse-stealth concept from other games. I wouldn't even mind if it stayed this way because it would force people to defend from certain points on the map where shadows fall onto approach vectors. It could make for some interesting strategies really. If that's going to be the case I would look to see the shimmer take on a VERY pronounced effect in shadows though. And the dampening bonus needs to be gone regardless. Cloak + dampeners for the full stealth experience is fair. Cloak + tons of armor, no. Too good.
Seymor Krelborn L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2008	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:25:00 - [76] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Vulpes mate. I thought I was quite clear. I was not saying the cloak needs changing, or it is broken. I said this a few times in the video. I am responding to people who have been saying that cloaks are easy to see, and if you cannot then you need to get good. That guy I tracked was not visible. Maybe a bug, maybe design. It matters not. I could not see him at all at full sprint at only 60 meters away. This supports people who say they are hard to see. Now the question for you all is "Is this fair and balanced.. or not?" Also liked the puns ;) Yu have some British in you there. perhaps the answer to cloaks is 1/2 speed when cloaked, but much more invisible to compensate, this would at least cut down on the ability to escape once you have uncloaked to kill and the enemy has your position and would promote using it more for sneaking than slaying... this game makes me sad....
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1977	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:38:00 - [77] - Quote Django Quik wrote: . Judge please do another video showing the same evidence at 20m and then we can discuss this more sensibly. I will. I need enough footage to make sure it is fair and representative. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5178	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:52:00 - [78] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I like the idea of scouts being completely invisible in well lit environments, but easy to see in shadows. It's like a reverse-stealth concept from other games. I wouldn't even mind if it stayed this way because it would force people to defend from certain points on the map where shadows fall onto approach vectors. It could make for some interesting strategies really. If that's going to be the case I would look to see the shimmer take on a VERY pronounced effect in shadows though. And the dampening bonus needs to be gone regardless. Cloak + dampeners for the full stealth experience is fair. Cloak + tons of armor, no. Too good. By "very pronounced effect" would you like it to look kind of like it's glowing? Because that's what it already does. And as I've said multiple times, the balance between dampening and precision is currently skewed more in favour of dampening than it should be, but I think having a REDUCED dampening bonus is a better idea than removing the bonus altogether.
Minor Treat RisingSuns Dark Taboo 232	Posted - 2014.04.21 01:38:00 - [79] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Bormir1r wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Excellent video, and it showcases beautifully what I mean. In the shadow, scouts are easy to see. In the light, good ******* luck. It's why when I need to combat scouts, I go to a badly lit place so I could see them more easily. Some maps are just badly lit in general, which makes it perfect for my 100m laser snipes But shouldn't that be ok, because the purpose of the cloak is to try to blend with the surroundings. The fact that there's lighting that helps the scout just means that there are places where it's easier to blend with the environment. We should also acknowledge that it should obviously be harder to see a cloaked scout who's farther away, it's much easier to see them close up, which is good because if you're looking you should be able to see them come in CQC with you. I thought blending in with the environment was suppose to be done by standing still not sprinting though.. Up to a certain extent yes, but when you're that far away, it should be harder to see them, if not mostly invisible. how far is fair in your opinion than? 50 meters? 75 meters? 100 meters?
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 488	Posted - 2014.04.21 02:16:00 - [80] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Cloaked scouts should be basically invisible at +60m like in this video - otherwise the cloak serves really no purpose at all. Judge please do another video showing the same evidence at 20m and then we can discuss this more sensibly. Are you implying that a cloak should only become visible at shotgun ranges where any reaction is too late? Iwinbutton much?

Master Smurf Nos Nothi 363	Posted - 2014.04.21 02:48:00 - [81] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Cloaked scouts should be basically invisible at +60m like in this video - otherwise the cloak serves really no purpose at all. Judge please do another video showing the same evidence at 20m and then we can discuss this more sensibly. This is rubbish. If that was so then you really dont need to sneak at all. Any rifle can hit from that distance, even if you are using an AR you could dip into your optimal, kill and then cloak retreat to your invisible range. When you couple this with flick a switch cloak and the range some scouts can get its a joke. "Shine bright like a diamond"
Zene Ren Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 65	Posted - 2014.04.21 09:26:00 - [82] - Quote bumped for more attention! Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14296	Posted - 2014.04.21 09:52:00 - [83] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Z is used as a reference to sci-fi. Often spelled with an O too. Its a nerd in-joke. "Lazor" and "laz0r" are in-jokes for the sci-fi community. "Lazer" is a (typically American) misunderstanding of how acronyms work, or a mistaken attempt at the in-joke which makes you look like an idiot instead of someone who actually understands the reference they're trying to make. ... As an american I never seen it spelled "Lazer' not even in the down south area around here; I always thought it was a british thing where as lazor an interneme of firing it. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5187	Posted - 2014.04.21 11:11:00 - [84] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Z is used as a reference to sci-fi. Often spelled with an O too. Its a nerd in-joke. "Lazor" and "laz0r" are in-jokes for the sci-fi community. "Lazer" is a (typically American) misunderstanding of how acronyms work, or a mistaken attempt at the in-joke which makes you look like an idiot instead of someone who actually understands the reference they're trying to make. ... As an american I never seen it spelled "Lazer' not even in the down south area around here; I always thought it was a british thing where as lazor an interneme of firing it. As a New Zealander with family and friends in both America and UK, and a frequent user of the internet in many ways, I've seen it come from Americans a LOT more often than I've seen it from British people or anyone from another nationality. I've also frequently been told - only by Americans - that it's "the American spelling" when I've pointed out the mistake, and been forced to explain that no matter how American you might be, "ztimulated" is never a real word.


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