No, that means if i try to sneak up on a scout then he "auto decloaks" and he knows i'm there.

That would also mean being anywhere near the ground would decloak me.

That's your logic.

Also, it's 2500m, not km.

yeah that's the point... it means you have to be skilled with it instead of just turning it on and forgetting about tactics.

but I mean if you don't think you can handle tactical gameplay then you can always go play COD....

Whats the point of this idea if you can't use the cloak to its fullest potential? why do you think we can be nearly completely invisible when standing still? to hide when enemies past by next to you unsuspected or avoid being seen.

flux grenades should have ability to uncloak as it is damaging all electronics.

it should also temporally disable scanners.

fun.

No, that means if i try to sneak up on a scout then he "auto decloaks" and he knows i'm there.

I can understand people hampering it's offensive capabilities, but now making it useless as a getaway tool? I'd never run cloak.

yeah that's the point... it means you have to be skilled with it instead of just turning it on and forgetting about tactics.

but I mean if you don't think you can handle tactical gameplay then you can always go play COD....

You obviously can't read

Why the hell...

So your solution is to completely break the cloak and make it useless. The only possible use it will have is hiding while traversing open terrain, which is barely effective as it is now with the blue shimmer and everyone and their mother noticing you if they even flash their reticule over you.

CLOAK DOES NOT NEED A NERF

Just make it a main weapon slot item that forces scouts to only use a sidearm if they use cloak. Along with this, if the brick tanks really peeve people (I've hardly even noticed it), then put a bigger movement speed decrease on them so that point defense units (such as heavies or people who want to fit their assaults that way) can use them properly.

But for the love of god, just because you're blind, the cloak itself does not need a nerf this idiotically massive.

lol another 1.8 scout panics at my suggestion...

long before 1.8 GOOD scouts were already doing what the rest of you are now using the cloak as a crutch for, and like I said this is NOT A NERF, I actually think you should be COMPLETELY invis, no blue shimmer...

what I'm asking for are counters... i.e. getting to close to hostiles, getting shot, a flux, or a piece of EWAR equipment that turns your cloak off....

so calm down.

also except that it will be changed eventually, theres enough outcry for it so learn to play with skill instead of a kdr padding crutch...

You think that having a way for someone else to forcibly uncloak someone is not a nerf? Are you seriously that mental? Your decreasing the viability of something in the game, i.e. nerfing it. It's not rocket science, and don't try to spin it.

And you already have a counter. You can actually see people when they move! Outrageous, right? I run both assaults and scouts, and people who are cloaked are ridiculously easy to see and shoot. Even when they're still, the distortions are noticeable, especially the second after you put your reticule over them and notice it randomly turning red. Quit making excuses, your idea is terrible.

Again, just because you're blind doesn't mean that the cloak needs a nerf.

yeah that's the point... it means you have to be skilled with it instead of just turning it on and forgetting about tactics.

but I mean if you don't think you can handle tactical gameplay then you can always go play COD....

Whats the point of this idea if you can't use the cloak to its fullest potential? why do you think we can be nearly completely invisible when standing still? to hide when enemies past by next to you unsuspected or avoid being seen.

Needing the cloak to decloak within certain meters simply because you can't see it, and therefore nerfing it, sounds very CoD like... which is removing tactical gameplay. I honestly don't know why cloaks are an issue. To me, unless the background behind the cloaked scout is VERY bright, they are extremely noticeable. There are plenty of people who can see the cloak just fine. It seems like the unskilled and blind minority wants them nerfed to hell...

well it works just like this in eve and yet the cloak is a very viable tool.... do some research.

a cloak should not be an active engagement weapon, it should be a tactical tool used to gain an initial advantage in combat, to flank, to drop links behind enemy lines... to, wait for it... SCOUT enemy locations and their fire power, to hunt snipers, to set traps with RE's...I could go on

its unfortunate all most of you can think to do with a cloak is blap people in the back of the head with a shotgun... I don't believe for a second that was ccp's intent for its use....

That's how it works with massive ships, yet this is infantry, an entirely different game in terms of strategy. Also, shotguns are not an issue whatsoever. Any weapon used with the cloak is just as effective, so stop blaming one particular weapon for your troubles. With the Eve universe as large as it is, compared to how infinitesimal infantry is, a ship decloaking in front of you is not a huge surprise, and you have plenty of time to run, assuming you're paying attention. The cloak in infantry is an assassins tool, used to get around and about through enemy lines. Scouts were quite pathetic without ti, yet everyone is on the bandwagon that they're OP, yet I have no issues with seeing them, nor in the way they work. The only suggestion I could make in "nerfing" the cloak, would be to reduce how much time it takes to decloak manually or switching to your weapon or equipment. Sincerely, try to be aware of your surroundings and stop playing like a frickin' casual noob form CoD.

EDIT: judging by godin and the 2 likes he got 3 people so far have only read the first line of this post... don't fail like they did....

in eve, a cloaked ship is automatically uncloaked within 2500m of anything, even a jet can.

I think there should be a similar mechanic in dust. either an automatic decloak within 10 meters of anything hostile to them or a piece of EWAR equipment that can be activated to uncloak everything within 20 meters.

I also think getting shot while cloaked should uncloak the merc, and any forcible measure that does uncloak them should burn it out temporarily.

come at me bro!

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't get the kitchen sink thrown at you for this idea , you know how scout's are .

I don't agree because that is what the flux is " suppose " to do .

Nice ideal's though .

I use a cloak sometimes myself while A .V ing and that's the only thing wrong with it in my eyes , besides the fact that you shouldn't be able to attack or drop equipment with it while cloaked .

Not having the flux do something to the cloak is just not right . Player's can use it to kill my shield's ... then me or my vehicle's but it has no effect on the cloak ???

Think the power to sustain three to five thousand in shield's should be more than it takes to power a cloak .

EDIT: judging by godin and the 2 likes he got 3 people so far have only read the first line of this post... don't fail like they did....

in eve, a cloaked ship is automatically uncloaked within 2500m of anything, even a jet can.

I think there should be a similar mechanic in dust. either an automatic decloak within 10 meters of anything hostile to them or a piece of EWAR equipment that can be activated to uncloak everything within 20 meters.

I also think getting shot while cloaked should uncloak the merc, and any forcible measure that does uncloak them should burn it out temporarily.

come at me bro!

how about no. not the distance thing anyways. the cloak is a tool used to hide. i can recall more tn one situation where i used it to hide (not fight) to great avail. and that is what it is truly meant for. making it auto decloak within ten meters of a hostile would completely destroy the cloak's purpose.

i'll give you an example of how i used it the other day. a heavy saw me. i ran, turned the corner, turned another corner, and cloaked. when he turned the initial corner, he didnt see me. and conidering the low hp i had from the damage he gav to me, i wasnt about the face him. so i stood. then about 5 other heavies turned the corner. i stil waited for them to pass by. i knew it was a squa. then one looked in my direction. i thought for sure he saw me, but he turned back into the direction he was running. as soon as they all had their backs turned, i got the heck out. (true story)

imagine if your idea was applied to cloaks and that had happened. that squad of sentinels would have eaten me alive.

also, i dont think getting shot should turn off the cloak. once you shoot them, they either stay still, making for an easy target, or the scout moves, and you can see them anyways.

the Ewar thing would be interesting, and would make scanners useful again. as long as the scout actually gets scanned, they should decloak and kick the cloaking device into its cooldown timer. flux grenades should be able to do the same thing.


Edit: By "as long as they are scanned," i mean when an active scanner scans you, and the thing on the top of the screen says "you have been scanned" to the scanned mercenary
"SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED," however, should not decloak a cloaked foe.

how about no. not the distance thing anyways. the cloak is a tool used to hide. i can recall more tn one situation where i used it to hide (not fight) to great avail. and that is what it is truly meant for. making it auto decloak within ten meters of a hostile would completely destroy the cloak's purpose.

i'll give you an example of how i used it the other day. a heavy saw me. i ran, turned the corner, turned another corner, and cloaked. when he turned the initial corner, he didnt see me. and conidering the low hp i had from the damage he gav to me, i wasnt about the face him. so i stood. then about 5 other heavies turned the corner. i stil waited for them to pass by. i knew it was a squa. then one looked in my direction. i thought for sure he saw me, but he turned back into the direction he was running. as soon as they all had their backs turned, i got the heck out. (true story)

imagine if your idea was applied to cloaks and that had happened. that squad of sentinels would have eaten me alive.

also, i dont think getting shot should turn off the cloak. once you shoot them, they either stay still, making for an easy target, or the scout moves, and you can see them anyways.

the Ewar thing would be interesting, and would make scanners useful again. as long as the scout actually gets scanned, they should decloak and kick the cloaking device into its cooldown timer. flux grenades should be able to do the same thing.


Edit: By "as long as they are scanned," i mean when an active scanner scans you, and the thing on the top of the screen says "you have been scanned" to the scanned mercenary
"SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED," however, should not decloak a cloaked foe.

EDIT: judging by godin and the 2 likes he got 3 people so far have only read the first line of this post... don't fail like they did....

in eve, a cloaked ship is automatically uncloaked within 2500m of anything, even a jet can.

I think there should be a similar mechanic in dust. either an automatic decloak within 10 meters of anything hostile to them or a piece of EWAR equipment that can be activated to uncloak everything within 20 meters.

I also think getting shot while cloaked should uncloak the merc, and any forcible measure that does uncloak them should burn it out temporarily.

come at me bro!

Seymor,

You mention "ewar tools or proximity deactivation," What if (through some kind of story-technology) proximity explosives worked against cloaking devices? This would be a great way to add a use to the proxy mine (currently limited) and would give the proximity mine user both area denial, and lethal counter.

This duel use for proximity mines may help with some of the vehicle spam, reduce the effective speed at which a cloak user could operate, and give everyone the joy of blowing up a scout (woohoo)!

If you haven't used a cloak, I recommend that you skill into the first level (or use a few of your 'apparition' AUR cloaks), try out the device, and learn to understand it's drawbacks. You'll find that the users gaining a major advantage from the cloak are overcoming more challenges than you may expect (like the sprint button actually slowing you down half the time).

your cloak is not supposed to be some easy win button you press to get out of every sticky situation, scouts before cloaks dealt with the same types of issues and did just fine (the good ones anyway) and I dare say if you were doing the right thing as a scout you would have known the enemies position before engaging and getting in such a hairy situation to begin with... without a cloak, had you died, it may have taught you a valuable lesson about your role...

again, I will reiterate, I believe cloaks need a counter be it through ewar tools or proximity deactivation, fluxes, etc etc... it needs something to even the playing field.

no role should have a tool at their disposal that gives an unfair advantage, anyone but a scout using a cloak would agree the cloak needs some balance.

LOL you didnt even read all of it.

i did, at the end, say that scanning a cloaked scout with a scanner should decloak a scout along with flux grenades

and dont tell me about the scouts before 1.8, because i know, i was there. i was a scout before 1.8.

and no, not all scouts are meant for passive scanning (although, i do have precision modules on my . im a gallente scout and i'll have you know the we are made to be almost undetectable. the scout made for passive scanning is the caldari scout.

im not a scrubby hp tanking scout either. i pack my suit with profile dampeners. i know my role. and its not fighting. thats for the minmatar scout (though, in an assassin way). its infiltrating, gathering intel on enemy positions, and even dropping uplinks behind enemy lines.

it should be used to gain a tactical advantage, not a prolonged one.

you should use it to get close and strike not dawdle behind enemy lines.

it should be part of a concerted team effort to take over an enemy position not pad your kdr.

how long do you think cloaks last?

Some sort of deployable disrupter field thingy wouldn't be a horrible idea.

Or a motion sensor.

a deploayable that induces shimmer but to outright uncloak would be horribly op , a scout wouldnt be able to go near objectives

maybe not in certain situations, but that doesn't mean they still cant get close enough to drop links, or to thin out the defense around an objective.

your role is not supposed to be invisible Rambo, capable of doing all things with ease...

EDIT: judging by godin and the 2 likes he got 3 people so far have only read the first line of this post... don't fail like they did....

in eve, a cloaked ship is automatically uncloaked within 2500m of anything, even a jet can.

I think there should be a similar mechanic in dust. either an automatic decloak within 10 meters of anything hostile to them or a piece of EWAR equipment that can be activated to uncloak everything within 20 meters.

I also think getting shot while cloaked should uncloak the merc, and any forcible measure that does uncloak them should burn it out temporarily.

come at me bro!

Alright....I'm going to post a video first to explain the situations on cloaks, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSBICx2yyZo This video is from Judge, he shows you what cloaks are like and how they are being used. Yes they need working on, they should at no point be completely invisible when you are running at full speed. Now onto my points of what I would like to see with cloaking.

1. Cloaking ends when your shields end, this means if you loose your shielding for whatever reason, your cloak status is gone, you also may not cloak when your shields are down. Why, because as I figure it the cloaking is latching onto the shielding, going around you to mask your movements, it is not a mesh within your armor, even if it was a mesh a bullet through your armor and now you are visible, aka armor fragments coming off or blood coming out, either way logically the cloak fails.

2. If you are hit with an emp gernade that destroys all placed electronics on the ground, you can not use your equipment in general until your shields have fully recharged, this means no scanners no cloaks. This is going back to point 1 of what is wanted.

3. To be able to use a gun at all or gernade, you must have fully decloaked, this does not mean as soon as you shoot someone with your gun, this means a fully decloak that either you did on purpose or because your energy ran out. Equipment is fine to use at any time including remote explosives.

4. Scouts are limited to side arm weapons only, shotguns are now a side arm weapon. Why, because assault suits are currently useless and have no value within the game anymore. Scouts typically have more armor/shields now then assault suits, this is especially presented when a scout suit uses a combat rifle (with an auto fire controller) and is literally doing more damage then the AR was before it was nerfed. 30dmg a bullet at rof 1,200.

5. The rendering upon the cloak needs to be done better by CCP. Watch the entire video that I linked to before saying "oh they are so easy to see"

This would make cloaks outright useless

1. Cloaking ends when your shields end, this means if you loose your shielding for whatever reason, your cloak status is gone, you also may not cloak when your shields are down. Why, because as I figure it the cloaking is latching onto the shielding, going around you to mask your movements, it is not a mesh within your armor, even if it was a mesh a bullet through your armor and now you are visible, aka armor fragments coming off or blood coming out, either way logically the cloak fails.

2. If you are hit with an emp gernade that destroys all placed electronics on the ground, you can not use your equipment in general until your shields have fully recharged, this means no scanners no cloaks. This is going back to point 1 of what is wanted.

3. To be able to use a gun at all or gernade, you must have fully decloaked, this does not mean as soon as you shoot someone with your gun, this means a fully decloak that either you did on purpose or because your energy ran out. Equipment is fine to use at any time including remote explosives.

4. Scouts are limited to side arm weapons only, shotguns are now a side arm weapon. Why, because assault suits are currently useless and have no value within the game anymore. Scouts typically have more armor/shields now then assault suits, this is especially presented when a scout suit uses a combat rifle (with an auto fire controller) and is literally doing more damage then the AR was before it was nerfed. 30dmg a bullet at rof 1,200.

5. The rendering upon the cloak needs to be done better by CCP. Watch the entire video that I linked to before saying "oh they are so easy to see"

EVE comparisons cannot be made to DUST for every single aspect. It really doesn't work with cloaks because they are two entirely different games. Ships do decloak when they are within 2,500 meters of anything. However, when cloaked, you might as well be completely invincible. They can't lock you which means they can't hurt you. FoF missiles hit whatever is closest and I don't even think they work against cloak (even if they did, who the hell uses FoF missiles?) and Smartbombs have a range of about 9 kilometers at their highest. Providing you are beyond 12 kilometers of anything, you can shout in local about their mother and father being related, question their sexuality, sing Never Give You Up, or just give information to your corp mates about when to jump in.

EDIT: judging by godin and the 2 likes he got 3 people so far have only read the first line of this post... don't fail like they did....

in eve, a cloaked ship is automatically uncloaked within 2500m of anything, even a jet can.

I think there should be a similar mechanic in dust. either an automatic decloak within 10 meters of anything hostile to them or a piece of EWAR equipment that can be activated to uncloak everything within 20 meters.

I also think getting shot while cloaked should uncloak the merc, and any forcible measure that does uncloak them should burn it out temporarily.

come at me bro!

[quote=lithkul devant]
1. This is going with the assumption that it is 'tacked onto shields' when there is little or no basis on this. Beyond that, from a game aspect, it is heavily unfair to the low shield suits. An Amarr Scout with max Shield Upgrades and no modules has 75 Shields; falling damage would break the cloak. The Caldari would have no such problem. This is a change that is unfair to one racial suit while doing little to others.

2. Don't know how I feel about this. Is certainly an interesting thought on how to deal with Sentinel-Logistics combinations. However, it favors faster Shield Regeneration; Caldari and Minmatar are happy while Gallente and Amarr suffer. Maybe that would be another balance point. Interesting to be sure.

3. 100% agreed. That 1.5 second delay would mean that choosing between decloaking right behind the enemy for a shotgun hit or having distance was an actual choice. Also means that getting caught IN cloak would be a bigger detriment to your offensive capability. I like it.

4. Nerfing X because Y is lacking is kind of lame. I don't like the idea of the Shotgun being made a Sidearm but maybe the Scouts would have a Shotgun slot and a Sidearm slot? Shotgun or Sidearm could go into Shotgun slot but only a Sidearm in the Sidearm slot. Don't know how I feel on this one as stated with the whole X and Y thing. Means the Cloakless and Logi Scout are dead.

5.Yes.

Eve cloaks can last as long as the capacitor of the ship allows. Now in Dust we have a limited time that the cloak lasts, I really think you are reaching sir. To be "decloakable" would ruin the modules altogether as currently cloaked scouts are fairly visible with the shimmer effect that they produce and if you were paying attention to the stats, anything with a high enough scan resolution would render it ineffective anyways.

I did read your whole post I only felt the need to comment on the anecdote you told, I agree with your thinking based on scanners as ewar for cloaks, I want this thread to continue coming up with ideas to balance the cloak and I appreciate yours.

I never accused you of being a scruby scout and I hope you didn't misunderstand my reply as inferring such a thing.

o7

[quote=Joseph Ridgeson]


Re.4 This idea stems from many other forums about it, such as the sentinel should only be able to equip a heavy weapon to a heavy slot, otherwise this gives rise to heavies with sniper rifles, rail rifles, and the like, things they were not really intended to be using. The reasoning behind wanting to limit scouts to sidearm is because they are meant to be assasins or recon, they were not meant to be front line combat, like people are now using them for with the combat rifle or in some cases even a plasma cannon. The shotgun you are correct should have its own slot rather then being just put as a sidearm. Also again back to the original point, scouts should not be front line combat, neither should logis as CCP has tried to do by removing the free armor repair logis received before. The main ability of a scout, is to get in and get out fast or to keep moving, they had no problem doing this before cloaks came into the game.

just wanted to comment on the whole heavy suits weren't meant to be snipers etc etc thing....

there is an old trailer from ccp about this game that promotes being that very thing, and i agree with ccp's vision on this.

you should be able to cobble together all the gear in this game to reasonable degree to make unique fits, roles and match your comfortable playstyle. but no matter what gear you use it should provide a clear advantage and a clear disadvantage.

no matter what role you pick another role should exist to counter it.

how else in any game are you to find a balance.

btw heres that ccp trailer i spoke of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_LlH2c5dyA

skip to 1:20 to see the part about a heavy sniper.

right now its a cloaked frontal assault death machine.