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![Virtual Riot Virtual Riot](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/female_gallente_128.jpg)
Virtual Riot
Rebels New Republic INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
322
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is the math for a Caldari Ck.0 Sent with max proficiency skills and 4 complex damage mods using an Ishukone Assault Forge Gun, vs a Madrugar using 2 complex heavy armor reps and 1 enhanced armor rep because you can't fit 3 complex armor reps. Everything is using max skills, for a true end game comparison.
TL;DR at bottom
Forge Gun stats, prof 5, 4 pro dmg mods for Ishukone Assault Forge Gun 1500 base 1500 / (4 dmg mods).8572 = 1749.88 (1750)
vs shield 1740 / (10% weakness to shield)1.1 = 1591
vs armor
1750 / (prof + 10% bonus to armor)0.75 = 2333.3 (2334)
Versus tripple rep maddy 2 complex heavy reps 1 enhanced heavy rep = 512.5 (513) armor / s
1200 shield recharge delay 6s dep recharge delay 11.25s recharge rate 96 4000 armor 513 armor / s
1st shot
1200 / 1.1 = 1333.3 (1334) 1500 - 1334 = 166 left over
166 / 0.75 = 221.3 (222)
4000 - 222 = 3778 armor
0 shield, 3778 armor after first shot
2nd shot 2.25 IAFG charge time between shots
2.25 x 513(armor repair rate/s) = 1154.25 (1155)
3778 + 1155 = more than 4000 so he is back to full 4000 armor
4000 - 2334 = 1666 armor left over
3rd shot
1666 + 1155 = 2821
2821 - 2334 = 487 armor left over
4th shot
487 + 1155 = 1642
1642 - 2334 = -692 armor left over (dead)
As we can see here, it takes 4 direct hits from the dedicated AV suit to kill this Madrugar. This is considering the AV player hits all his shots in the least amount of time. He must hit all his shots, if he misses one shot he has to repeat the whole process over agin. This gives the Madrugar player 6.75 second to retreat or find cover before being dead.
Is it balanced? I just like putting the info out there and letting people take from it what they will.
TL;DR 4 shots from an IAFG to kill a triple rep mady with max skills and max damage. (he is dead on the 4th shot) |
![Ziiro Celeste Ziiro Celeste](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/female_caldari_128.jpg)
Ziiro Celeste
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
54
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Someone has been watching Pyrex videos eh?
The forgotten "A" in AAA
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![rithu rithu](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_amarr_128.jpg)
rithu
Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo
40
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team
You cant see me caldari scouts ;)
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![Virtual Riot Virtual Riot](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/female_gallente_128.jpg)
Virtual Riot
Rebels New Republic INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
322
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ziiro Celeste wrote:Someone has been watching Pyrex videos eh?
;)
I like how he says its so easy to die in a triple rep maddy |
![Cat Merc Cat Merc](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
8250
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
rithu wrote:AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team
Then so should vehicles. Vehicles should be pretty **** without team work, just like AV ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png)
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
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![Chunky Munkey Chunky Munkey](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/female_amarr_128.jpg)
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3861
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
And an Ion Pistol can OHK a scout. That doesn't make them balanced.
No.
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![Atiim Atiim](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6589
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
rithu wrote:AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team
That assertion is a fallacy.
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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![Judge Rhadamanthus Judge Rhadamanthus](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_amarr_128.jpg)
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
1871
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Atiim wrote:rithu wrote:AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team
That assertion is a fallacy.
It's not a fallacy, it's an assumed premise. but I agree. There is no evidence to support that premise.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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![Principus Shmoof Triariian Principus Shmoof Triariian](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Principus Shmoof Triariian
Sardianii-Triarii Planetary Services Armed-n-Hammered
93
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
I see your point, but here's a better idea.
Instead of trying to incite a discussion over whether it's OP or not, let's ask the Devs to give us the Minmatar AV weapon. That will deal explosive damage and be the direct counter to the Armor of a Madruger. Or a Minny Tank with an artillery cannon or autocannon that deal explosive damage. The game is incomplete, and there will be people who will demand that HAVs receive a nerf, when the counters to them are not fully implemented. An Amarr tank and Amarr AV weapon will bring the major EM damage dealers and be the counter to shield. The problem with AV and HAVs is that they just are incomplete, and don't mirror the design of EVE that the game is following well enough yet |
![Principus Shmoof Triariian Principus Shmoof Triariian](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Principus Shmoof Triariian
Sardianii-Triarii Planetary Services Armed-n-Hammered
93
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:rithu wrote:AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team
Then so should vehicles. Vehicles should be pretty **** without team work, just like AV ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) Not entirely. HAVs are designed to be able to work alone, due to their survive-ability.
But here's the thing, an HAV alone with no sort of direction isn't as good, but an HAV with a good squad commander who's giving the pilot orders can be a force to be reckoned with, as team work always will amplify somethings effectiveness. Just because there isn't another HAV, doesn't mean it's alone, it has a team to work with.
Basically, teamwork is needed to get more out of your HAV, and more out of your AV |
|
![Cat Merc Cat Merc](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
8251
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Principus Shmoof Triariian wrote:Cat Merc wrote:rithu wrote:AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team
Then so should vehicles. Vehicles should be pretty **** without team work, just like AV ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) Not entirely. HAVs are designed to be able to work alone, due to their survive-ability. But here's the thing, an HAV alone with no sort of direction isn't as good, but an HAV with a good squad commander who's giving the pilot orders can be a force to be reckoned with, as team work always will amplify somethings effectiveness. Just because there isn't another HAV, doesn't mean it's alone, it has a team to work with. Basically, teamwork is needed to get more out of your HAV, and more out of your AV But HAV solo and AV solo, most of the time the HAV will win.
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
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![Joseph Ridgeson Joseph Ridgeson](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
1126
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Triple Repairer Madrugar is an infantry and blaster eater. Both of those do very sustained damage which is where it wins; it's the Drake of DUST. It won't win against anything with front loaded damage such as a Railgun or a Missile tank. For infantry, they are kind of forced into having two guys with Forge weapons or Remote Explosives. I don't use the fit often because I prefer a different fit that I feel is more rounded.
Balanced? I don't like to get into regards of balance when it comes to AV-HAV since 1.7 because I have 15 million invested into HAV meaning I cannot in good faith say I am being impartial. I will state, however, is that fit was around back when hardeners were 40/60 and no one complained because their ire was being aimed at Staggered Hardener - Repairer.
"People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
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![Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Dovallis Martan JenusKoll](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/female_caldari_128.jpg)
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
716
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
AV is meant to be possible by one player, yes, but it's meant to be harder than just destroy because you can see it...
I typically end up doing about ~5200 damage to my target in under 3 seconds. Needless to say I love rep stackers as opposed to hardener users.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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![Principus Shmoof Triariian Principus Shmoof Triariian](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Principus Shmoof Triariian
Sardianii-Triarii Planetary Services Armed-n-Hammered
96
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Principus Shmoof Triariian wrote:Cat Merc wrote:rithu wrote:AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team
Then so should vehicles. Vehicles should be pretty **** without team work, just like AV ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) Not entirely. HAVs are designed to be able to work alone, due to their survive-ability. But here's the thing, an HAV alone with no sort of direction isn't as good, but an HAV with a good squad commander who's giving the pilot orders can be a force to be reckoned with, as team work always will amplify somethings effectiveness. Just because there isn't another HAV, doesn't mean it's alone, it has a team to work with. Basically, teamwork is needed to get more out of your HAV, and more out of your AV But HAV solo and AV solo, most of the time the HAV will win. You're putting a giant weapon on treads against a person, of course it will win if the pilot isn't an idiot. Remember the days when anyone with a swarm launcher and AV Grenedes melted all tanks? Do you wanna go back to that? Oh boy, another nerf, and then a few patches later, another buff. what would we accomplish doing that? Nothing. I'd rather have how it is stay and be able to interact with EVE more than more nerf, buffs, nerfs, buffs. |
![Atiim Atiim](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6590
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 18:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:Triple Repairer Madrugar is an infantry and blaster eater. Both of those do very sustained damage which is where it wins; it's the Drake of DUST. It won't win against anything with front loaded damage such as a Railgun or a Missile tank. For infantry, they are kind of forced into having two guys with Forge weapons or Remote Explosives. I don't use the fit often because I prefer a different fit that I feel is more rounded. The main problem with this, is the fact that the fact that a weapon who's profile has the strongest Armor bias in the game cannot effectively destroy it.
That's about as balanced as a Scrambler Rifle not being able to kill a Minmatar Frame.
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
![Mobius Kaethis Mobius Kaethis](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1394
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 18:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
rithu wrote:AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team
Since when?
I hate it when people make this argument since av has never been a matter of whole team coordination or even squad coordination. Heck, since proxies came out I have been able to easily solo any ground vehicle with very little personal risk (a risk reward strategy that closely mirrors that of tanks).
really what we need is AV that is capable if solo kills but only for elite (read highly skilled and high sp) av players. For most people it should take a group effort, but soloing tanks should be something infantry can aspire to.
Fun > Realism
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![Supernus Gigas Supernus Gigas](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Supernus Gigas
sNk Syndicate
744
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Posted - 2014.04.11 18:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
I swear to cheese some of you people don't know that tanks have a weak spot. Try hitting that with a Breach FG and see what happens.
FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!
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![Atiim Atiim](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6590
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 18:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Principus Shmoof Triariian wrote: You're putting a giant weapon on treads against a person, of course it will win if the pilot isn't an idiot. Remember the days when anyone with a swarm launcher and AV Grenades melted all tanks? Do you wanna go back to that? Oh boy, another nerf, and then a few patches later, another buff. what would we accomplish doing that? Nothing. I'd rather have how it is stay and be able to interact with EVE more than more nerf, buffs, nerfs, buffs.
That statement is fallacious.
In a game, one person should be able to win against one other person if they use something designed to be their hard counter; and they should be able to do it with reasonable expectations. Otherwise, that unit becomes better than every other unit in said game, and there becomes no point in running anything else other than that item.
That serves to remove all diversity from the game, which supposed to be one of this game's 'selling' points.
Balancing the game wouldn't hinder the time it would take to strengthen the EVE/DUST link, as they are being worked on by different teams of developers; and I'm pretty sure the majority of the playerbase would much rather have a balanced game where everyone's role is equally fun and viable, as opposed to strengthening the link to a game who's playerbase would love nothing more than for CCP to shut this game down.
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
![Atiim Atiim](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6590
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 18:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Supernus Gigas wrote:I swear to cheese some of you people don't know that tanks have a weak spot. Try hitting that with a Breach FG and see what happens. Didn't someone already disprove your assertion in another thread?
I guess I'll just paste his quote:
Nothing Certain wrote: Let's look at the numbers instead of the claims. A militia Sica from the store comes with 4150 HP A Soma, 5200 A Wirkomi BFG does 2100 damage. If you have Lev.5 Prof 5 w/ Complex Heavy Damage Modifier and you hit the fuel cells and get the 168% damage bonus you get 4260 damage. So, you can take out a Sica in one shot, given these conditions. You can't take out a Soma or any other tank. IIf the Sica has any shield extenders or armor plate you can't one shot it. If you only have prof. 4, you can't one shot it. If you miss the fuel cells, you don't even come close. I'd file this claim as possible, but implausible.
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
![Principus Shmoof Triariian Principus Shmoof Triariian](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Principus Shmoof Triariian
Sardianii-Triarii Planetary Services Armed-n-Hammered
97
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 18:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Principus Shmoof Triariian wrote: You're putting a giant weapon on treads against a person, of course it will win if the pilot isn't an idiot. Remember the days when anyone with a swarm launcher and AV Grenades melted all tanks? Do you wanna go back to that? Oh boy, another nerf, and then a few patches later, another buff. what would we accomplish doing that? Nothing. I'd rather have how it is stay and be able to interact with EVE more than more nerf, buffs, nerfs, buffs.
That statement is fallacious. In a game, one person should be able to win against one other person if they use something designed to be their hard counter; and they should be able to do it with reasonable expectations. Otherwise, that unit becomes better than every other unit in said game, and there becomes no point in running anything else other than that item. That serves to remove all diversity from the game, which supposed to be one of this game's 'selling' points. Balancing the game wouldn't hinder the time it would take to strengthen the EVE/DUST link, as they are being worked on by different teams of developers; and I'm pretty sure the majority of the playerbase would much rather have a balanced game where everyone's role is equally fun and viable, as opposed to strengthening the link to a game who's playerbase would love nothing more than for CCP to shut this game down. Balance would be nice, too bad that isn't what the nerfs/buffs do. they nerf, and they buff, they don't balance. If it was balanced, why would you want to nerf it? If it was balanced, why would you want to buff it? Just because you can't kill the scout that is cloaked doesn't mean it is OP, because you might be pursuing unrealistic goals if what you're using can't actually kill cloaky scouts, so you go to the forums and whine until the end of time. If it's broken, fix it, if it isn't and you're just bad, HTFU yah scrub. AV isn't a solo thing for HAVs, it never has been. And it shouldn't be easy to do. A single swarm launcher shouldn't be able to take out an HAV.... but 3 or 4 should have the ability to kill it. In EVE, an assault frigate would be hard pressed to kill a battleship... but 5 Assault Frigates?
And if balancing the game was so freaking easy, why isn't it balanced? Why isn't there more of a link to EVE? Simple. Dev time is focused on nerfing and buffing the whiney players who can't deal with something killing them. If it needs to be balanced then by all means do so, but if it really doesn't... then boo hoo you died. You want the game to be better? I have the answer, and there is even a song done by CCP
H.T.F.U
Less nerf/buff, more content please |
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![Harpyja Harpyja](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_amarr_128.jpg)
Harpyja
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1568
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 18:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:Triple Repairer Madrugar is an infantry and blaster eater. Both of those do very sustained damage which is where it wins; it's the Drake of DUST. It won't win against anything with front loaded damage such as a Railgun or a Missile tank. For infantry, they are kind of forced into having two guys with Forge weapons or Remote Explosives. I don't use the fit often because I prefer a different fit that I feel is more rounded. The main problem with this, is the fact that the fact that a weapon who's profile has the strongest Armor bias in the game cannot effectively destroy it. That's about as balanced as a Scrambler Rifle not being able to kill a Minmatar Frame. You could just ask for your heavy Minmatar AV weapon that will be specialized against armor, while the forge gun is a hybrid type which isn't specialized toward either shield or armor, since the damage difference isn't that great and the proficiency skill is just rather misleading, as it isn't supposed to be anti-armor specialized.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Atiim didn't agree with limiting tanks!
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![Adipem Nothi Adipem Nothi](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
95
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 18:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Math behind Tanks: GOOD =/= YOU
Bang?
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![Funkmaster Whale Funkmaster Whale](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Funkmaster Whale
Ancient Exiles.
1808
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 19:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
rithu wrote:AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team
Why bother with AV then?
When you just log on and want to have fun solo, you're out of luck then I assume? Nonsense, if AV can't get the job done I'll just drop my Militia Sica fit with 2x damage mods and 3-shot your tank in a matter of seconds.
You're assumption is wrong. AV should be just as effective against vehicles as vehicles are against infantry. There is nothing about a tank that makes you special and require multiple people to destroy.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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![MarasdF Loron MarasdF Loron](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
375
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 19:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ziiro Celeste wrote:Someone has been watching Pyrex videos eh? Although it is possible he has watched Pyrex's videos I fail to see what has to do with this. I have been telling this same damn thing to the AV community, just without math, ever since 1.8 came out and I haven't really been watching his videos lately. Mainly because he started to call tanks fun ever since 1.7...
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
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![Cat Merc Cat Merc](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
8256
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 19:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Principus Shmoof Triariian wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Principus Shmoof Triariian wrote:Cat Merc wrote:rithu wrote:AV is never supposed to be a one person thing, you need support of a good squad & team
Then so should vehicles. Vehicles should be pretty **** without team work, just like AV ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) Not entirely. HAVs are designed to be able to work alone, due to their survive-ability. But here's the thing, an HAV alone with no sort of direction isn't as good, but an HAV with a good squad commander who's giving the pilot orders can be a force to be reckoned with, as team work always will amplify somethings effectiveness. Just because there isn't another HAV, doesn't mean it's alone, it has a team to work with. Basically, teamwork is needed to get more out of your HAV, and more out of your AV But HAV solo and AV solo, most of the time the HAV will win. You're putting a giant weapon on treads against a person, of course it will win if the pilot isn't an idiot. Remember the days when anyone with a swarm launcher and AV Grenedes melted all tanks? Do you wanna go back to that? Oh boy, another nerf, and then a few patches later, another buff. what would we accomplish doing that? Nothing. I'd rather have how it is stay and be able to interact with EVE more than more nerf, buffs, nerfs, buffs. How about this: Both have difficulty taking each other down?
Why should a tank have such extreme ease in taking down infantry? **** I ran a missile tank the other day and it seemed extremely balanced against infantry. I could take them down, but it was difficult to do so if they had the right positioning.
Ya know, just like it's hard to take down a tank with AV?
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
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![Adipem Nothi Adipem Nothi](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
97
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 19:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Ziiro Celeste wrote:Someone has been watching Pyrex videos eh? Although it is possible he has watched Pyrex's videos I fail to see what has to do with this
Old Pyrex: Ran infantry. Had a p*ss stats but good perspectives.
New Pyrex: Has run Vehicles in a game without decent AV since early 1.7. Perspectives presently reflect that he's lost touch with reality.
Bang?
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![MarasdF Loron MarasdF Loron](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
375
![View only posts by author View only posts by author](/images/icon_filter.gif) |
Posted - 2014.04.11 19:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Ziiro Celeste wrote:Someone has been watching Pyrex videos eh? Although it is possible he has watched Pyrex's videos I fail to see what has to do with this Old Pyrex: Ran infantry. Had a p*ss stats but good perspectives. New Pyrex: Has run Vehicles in a game without decent AV since early 1.7. Perspectives presently reflect that he's lost touch with reality. I guess he used to run infantry alot more in his videos back in the day and while I agree that Pyrex's opinion about tanks is f*cked up I have to say that triple rep Maddy is the easiest tank in the game to take down.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
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![Alpha 443-6732 Alpha 443-6732](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
Alpha 443-6732
General Tso's Alliance
452
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Posted - 2014.04.11 19:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:Triple Repairer Madrugar is an infantry and blaster eater. Both of those do very sustained damage which is where it wins; it's the Drake of DUST. It won't win against anything with front loaded damage such as a Railgun or a Missile tank. For infantry, they are kind of forced into having two guys with Forge weapons or Remote Explosives. I don't use the fit often because I prefer a different fit that I feel is more rounded. The main problem with this, is the fact that the fact that a weapon who's profile has the strongest Armor bias in the game cannot effectively destroy it. That's about as balanced as a Scrambler Rifle not being able to kill a Minmatar Frame.
that's what a large missile turret is for...
THAT'S ALL THAT A LARGE MISSILE TURRET IS FOR |
![Godin Thekiller Godin Thekiller](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1977
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:Triple Repairer Madrugar is an infantry and blaster eater. Both of those do very sustained damage which is where it wins; it's the Drake of DUST. It won't win against anything with front loaded damage such as a Railgun or a Missile tank. For infantry, they are kind of forced into having two guys with Forge weapons or Remote Explosives. I don't use the fit often because I prefer a different fit that I feel is more rounded. The main problem with this, is the fact that the fact that a weapon who's profile has the strongest Armor bias in the game cannot effectively destroy it. That's about as balanced as a Scrambler Rifle not being able to kill a Minmatar Frame.
That's because it doesn't do a burst of damage; it's does in pieces, kinda like a shotgun does with pellets. If that got fixed, ha,watch the fireworks.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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![Boot Booter Boot Booter](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Boot Booter
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
447
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Principus Shmoof Triariian wrote:Atiim wrote:Principus Shmoof Triariian wrote: You're putting a giant weapon on treads against a person, of course it will win if the pilot isn't an idiot. Remember the days when anyone with a swarm launcher and AV Grenades melted all tanks? Do you wanna go back to that? Oh boy, another nerf, and then a few patches later, another buff. what would we accomplish doing that? Nothing. I'd rather have how it is stay and be able to interact with EVE more than more nerf, buffs, nerfs, buffs.
That statement is fallacious. In a game, one person should be able to win against one other person if they use something designed to be their hard counter; and they should be able to do it with reasonable expectations. Otherwise, that unit becomes better than every other unit in said game, and there becomes no point in running anything else other than that item. That serves to remove all diversity from the game, which supposed to be one of this game's 'selling' points. Balancing the game wouldn't hinder the time it would take to strengthen the EVE/DUST link, as they are being worked on by different teams of developers; and I'm pretty sure the majority of the playerbase would much rather have a balanced game where everyone's role is equally fun and viable, as opposed to strengthening the link to a game who's playerbase would love nothing more than for CCP to shut this game down. Balance would be nice, too bad that isn't what the nerfs/buffs do. they nerf, and they buff, they don't balance. If it was balanced, why would you want to nerf it? If it was balanced, why would you want to buff it? Just because you can't kill the scout that is cloaked doesn't mean it is OP, because you might be pursuing unrealistic goals if what you're using can't actually kill cloaky scouts, so you go to the forums and whine until the end of time. If it's broken, fix it, if it isn't and you're just bad, HTFU yah scrub. AV isn't a solo thing for HAVs, it never has been. And it shouldn't be easy to do. A single swarm launcher shouldn't be able to take out an HAV.... but 3 or 4 should have the ability to kill it. In EVE, an assault frigate would be hard pressed to kill a battleship... but 5 Assault Frigates? And if balancing the game was so freaking easy, why isn't it balanced? Why isn't there more of a link to EVE? Simple. Dev time is focused on nerfing and buffing the whiney players who can't deal with something killing them. If it needs to be balanced then by all means do so, but if it really doesn't... then boo hoo you died. You want the game to be better? I have the answer, and there is even a song done by CCP H.T.F.U Less nerf/buff, more content please
In dust we are limited to 16v16.. If AV can't solo a tank it creates unbalance. You're eve statement is shortsighted.
Ttk on vehicles needs to be high so that we don't return to previous 1.7 where any militia scrub could solo a tank. In order to then balance, tanks can not be so effective against infantry. This is the issue. Not exactly sure how to solve it yet though. The nerf to Swarms was definitely a step in the wrong direction.
The only conclusion I can reach is to give tanks a much higher HP but a much lower regen. Steady impacts from AV should cause tanks to retreat for a larger length of time than how it currently sits.
Damage to vehicle WP was a good step too and has helped immensely in increasing AV incentives.
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